Our recruitment this summer has been really good? Maybe not quite enough of it, but I don't see many flaws otherwise
I would say we don’t know if it’s been good. At first glance, Wollacott, O’Connell have settled in well. JRS looks handy. Sessegnon, Payne, McGrandles and Egbo we haven’t seen enough of yet.
I’m sure Sessegnon will deliver, and I’m positive about the others as well, but I was positive about Lee, Leko, Kirk and even Arter last year.
Our recruitment this summer has been really good? Maybe not quite enough of it, but I don't see many flaws otherwise
I would say we don’t know if it’s been good. At first glance, Wollacott, O’Connell have settled in well. JRS looks handy. Sessegnon, Payne, McGrandles and Egbo we haven’t seen enough of yet.
I’m sure Sessegnon will deliver, and I’m positive about the others as well, but I was positive about Lee, Leko, Kirk and even Arter last year.
Fingers crossed, but we can’t make a call now
I mentioned in the Bolton preview that I believe Garner really rates McGrandles, he said as much in his pre match press conference, and I always found it strange he started him against Derby when he probably needed to gain more match fitness after a disrupted pre season - but shows a confidence in him.
Having reflected on that deadline through the day I still can’t quite get my head around the failure to sign anyone. It has to be one of:
Naivety- Martin still being inexperienced and sharing way more than he should’ve at the game, when in reality it was going to be far more difficult to get deals done.
Out priced/competed- if it is indeed true that we were after Scully, it’s hard for anyone to compete with the league above, can scratch that one off. Though several suitable alternatives should have been ready.
Cutting costs- Thomas/Martin/ Raelynn have clearly been cutting costs off the field so perhaps that’s now spread to the playing staff. Whether this is in preparation for a sale or just a lack of funds is just speculation. I personally don’t think this is the case, tempting Garner and getting some good signings over the line earlier in the window doesn’t make sense if this was indeed true.
All in all, regardless of the deadline day failure the real indictment is that through a several month window we didn’t manage to fill the glaring holes in our squad, as soon as Washington was let go we were light up top and especially once Stockley clearly wasn’t suited to Garnerball an addition should have been top priority. Same goes for the extra defender we clearly needed, virtually inexplicable that we didn’t get one, and that there wasn’t a peep about it in the statement. I still think we’re capable of playoffs, possibly more this season. But now we’re relying on injuries etc going our way when that didn’t need to be the case.
I agree with your concluding paragraph. I know a lot of deals get done on the final day before the window and sometimes you might be able to negotiate a lower price from a club desperate to sell. Although of course the opposite may happen if the selling club play hardball and you will have to pay more if you are either desperate enough, or simply have deep enough pockets. Of course, other clubs often won't make a decision on releasing players for loan outs until they are comfortable their squad is adequate.
However, once you end up in that position of having vacant key gaps in your squad on the very last day of the window you have less element of control over the situation, compared to doing your business earlier in the window. Time is simply not on your side. There is a fair chance that any one of the selling club/player/player's agent will raise an issue that you cannot resolve in the time available. Or any deal for your target may be dependent upon a chain of other moves all occurring on that day and an issue with any one of which could scupper the whole chain.
Charlton went in to the last day knowing full well of the potential risks and in the end they paid the price (or I guess didn't seeing no one came in)! The question is do they learn from it.
An agent will tell his player not to sign anything until they know what is the best terms available. Why sign for Charlton in July when a Championship club may come in?
If you want the best your money can buy you have to play the game or settle for mediocrity. In this league where every penny counts there is everything wrong in spending money to bring in a squad player. If we spend money it has to be to get better than we have.
No lesson to learn for me.
I have no idea what proportion of the summer deals are concluded on the final day of the window but would assume it is maybe less than say 20-30%? Someone will know. Every player has different circumstances, some still in contract, some out of contract but, whatever, you can get reasonable players to sign that are better than what you already have without leaving it so late, e.g Wollacott, O'Connell.
If TS isn't willing or able to pay either high fees or wages, I am not sure it makes sense to wait until the very last day in the hope that he is going to be able to offer the highest wages, or even the highest price if he is able to pay a fee. In my view it is more of a lottery over which he has little control.
My understanding is that Bonne was agreed days in advance with Gallen despite TS then trying to renegotiate it himself, but was always a back up. Thing is, QPR knew that Charlton’s other options were unrealistic so they always expected the deal to come forward. Their end say it was over hours before Charlton confirmed it, although that doesn’t tally with Jaiyesimi being pulled back from Mansfield very late.
Our recruitment this summer has been really good? Maybe not quite enough of it, but I don't see many flaws otherwise
Our aim this season is promotion. Not just me saying this but Sandgaard also. So I will judge our recruitment this summer by where we finish in the league. At things stand my guess would be about 10th. Hopefully I am wrong.
I don't really care what some might think. I buy the streams and watch the club but going to matches when I have a long journey home totally disapointed is not what I want to do aged 58 years. I have done all that and bought the T-shirt. I am fed up with us being owned by crooks and fools and with every opportunity that supports itself, that opportunity is missed.
My point about the importance of different types of fans I know is not a popular one, but telling people to attend isn't going to make it happen. It is a reality which any business owner has to understand and address. If I did force myself to go, it would make absolutely no diference and the dog would be more likely to get kicked!(not really I am an animal lover). But I am going to do things I get some pleasure from at this stage of my life.
I go because I love the club, not because I'm forced to go. You please yourself, but don't have the audacity to say you are more important to the club because you won't go. Sickening.
Firstly I do contribute to the club and do go to games, just I pick and choose. Secondly, you completely missed my point and I know it is not a point people like to read, but the most important fans are the harder fans to get coming to games. That doesn't mean they are the most deserving or warrant any praise, but those are completely different things from being the most important.
And in terms of fans of around my age, did you go to every Selhurst game like I did? Not that many did. I didn't then but realise now that those that didn't go were more important than me, especially those that didn't go and fought for a return to he Valley. I went to Belgium to protest and I notice not that many others made the effort.
Another thing I have realised in my old age is that I am a bad loser, and watching shitty little teams come to the Valley and take a point or three from us gives me no pleasure whatsoever. In fact it puts me in a foul mood which I don't want to impose on my family. I don't live round the corner and I absolutely hate the drive home after such a result.
Because we have been owned by fools and crooks we are in League One. We have been here too long and I expect us to get out of it and I see that as the club's side of the bargain from my perspective.
I don't really care what some might think. I buy the streams and watch the club but going to matches when I have a long journey home totally disapointed is not what I want to do aged 58 years. I have done all that and bought the T-shirt. I am fed up with us being owned by crooks and fools and with every opportunity that supports itself, that opportunity is missed.
My point about the importance of different types of fans I know is not a popular one, but telling people to attend isn't going to make it happen. It is a reality which any business owner has to understand and address. If I did force myself to go, it would make absolutely no diference and the dog would be more likely to get kicked!(not really I am an animal lover). But I am going to do things I get some pleasure from at this stage of my life.
I go because I love the club, not because I'm forced to go. You please yourself, but don't have the audacity to say you are more important to the club because you won't go. Sickening.
Firstly I do contribute to the club and do go to games, just I pick and choose. Secondly, you completely missed my point and I know it is not a point people like to read, but the most important fans are the harder fans to get coming to games. That doesn't mean they are the most deserving or warrant any praise, but those are completely different things from being the most important.
And in terms of fans of around my age, did you go to every Selhurst game like I did? Not that many did. I didn't then but realise now that those that didn't go were more important than me, especially those that didn't go and fought for a return to he Valley.
Another thing I have realised in my old age is that I am a bad loser, and watching shitty little teams come to the Valley and take a point or three from us gives me no pleasure whatsoever. In fact it puts me in a foul mood which I don't want to impose on my family. I don't live round the corner and I absolutely hate the drive home after such a result.
Because we have been owned by fools and crooks we are in League One. We have been here too long and I expect us to get out of it and I see that as the club's side of the bargain from my perspective.
I'm not having it. 58 isn't old age, just past your prime having seen better days. You might feel it, but that's watching Charlton for you 😎
It is a fact that in the last nine seasons for which we have figures, Charlton's operating losses have consistently been much higher in League One than in the Championship - with the exception of 2015/16. I am not excluding 2020/21 because the announced number is distorted by an £8.1m asset transfer to Roland. Not sure why that is so had Roland/ESI could have spent another £5m on players' wages in 2019/20 and the operating loss would still have been lower than the preceding three seasons in L1 by some margin.
I do appreciate your taking the time to respond on this and I won't push it any more on match day, but I honestly still fail to see your alternative proposal to cutting ones cloth to what one has. Promotion is no solution. Even if your figures are right, you are only saying that, if we spent to get promoted, we would only then be adding to the club's debt massively - rather than very massively - each year. And of course in the past nine years we have done better financially in the Championship because, over that period, we have had squads that were either nearly or actually relegated, or else essentially put together in League One. We have never had to build a competitive squad in the Championship. Then when we got relegated we were paying Championship contracts in League One. That is a very different situation to now, where we do not have the legacy contracts.
If you read Thomas’s interview with me in December 2020 he argued that he could put together a promotion team in the Championship without spending big because players are overpaid and he wouldn’t meet the wages. More magical thinking - it can happen because he says so, regardless of everyone else’s view.
This is all delusional - as is the latest idea that he is going to break even in L1. It’s his claim that the gap in 21/22 was £8m. The only way you make a significant dent is by reducing football wages but inevitably if you do that it will have consequences. I’m not saying it’s impossible to get better value but you will never get to break even because you are losing an amount as big as the whole football budget.
Staff cutbacks are trivial in this picture. The club is also inept at handling them which is resulting in unexpectedly large payouts. This is not the hallmark of an organisation behaving professionally or being managed competently.
The commercial revenue is poor - and will remain so, which is why he can’t retain senior appointees around it - and ticket revenue is going backwards because of his own pricing policy.
It isn’t the principle of sustainability which is wrong, it’s that he cannot get there but pretends he can, taking a section of fans with him because they want to believe it. As with much else he has said, it doesn’t make it true.
You will only close the gap substantially by 1) selling your best players every year at a higher rate than ever before and/or 2) getting promoted, which gives you the higher central income and a product people are more willing to buy.
Any other way forward than promotion needs to come from the restructuring of the game - which TS cannot deliver.
Just as I see it - very well put but we shouldn't be surprised of course. AB has the knowledge, personal experience AND the intelligence to summarise just what's wrong with our owner's master plan and is clear to those who care about the future of our club ( and not just what business we failed to do before the window closed)
I fail to understand why some just cannot see the wood for the trees...in this case the sequoias.
Yes, we owe a debt of gratitude to Thomas, but that will slowly but surely fade into relative insignificance unless he changes tack and realises he DOES need the assistance/advice of others who wear that T shirt with pride.
To continue down the path he's currently treading will likely lead to failure & his legacy may well be that the road to hell was paved with good intentions...and little else.
However, as long as he persists with his " new broom " tactics, ensuring that bar one, loyal staff members are swept aside for cheaper options in accordance with his cunning plan to take our club to the Land of Milk & Money, he will find Sandgaard & Co ploughing a lonely furrow. To be surrounded by "yes men/women etc " who follow orders without question sounds like a recipe for disaster, with the likely outcome, backwards & downwards, if you get my meaning.
Regardless of success on the pitch, with the setting of his matchday ticket prices together with the worrying cost of living situation, I fail to see how attendances will hold up at The Valley - another aspect of his ownership that is flawed.
So, where does all this lead, you may ask.
I'm not alone in hearing rumours of his desire to sell up & that he possibly already has a buyer but whether this is dependant on promotion come May is unclear.
If the latter is the case, his seeming reluctance to strengthen our squad in order to maximise the goal of a top 6 placing, is even more perplexing ...and I don't mean the lack of business on transfer deadline day.
The way that I see it currently, is that we're a club in no man's land.
And, sadly, albeit with a decent squad of players & a decent manager, the naive, muddled thinking behind the scenes will likely result in yet another unsuccessful season for our beloved football club.
Another thing is that Sandgaard has been pretty open how he is budgeting. He has outgoings which is expenses including what he sets as a playing budget and incomings. The shortfall, all being even is £8m a year. He is trying to narrow that by sacking staff and cutting costs, but the way he is doing it means if I gifted the club £1m, it would go straight in his pocket.
It is a fact that in the last nine seasons for which we have figures, Charlton's operating losses have consistently been much higher in League One than in the Championship - with the exception of 2015/16. I am not excluding 2020/21 because the announced number is distorted by an £8.1m asset transfer to Roland. Not sure why that is so had Roland/ESI could have spent another £5m on players' wages in 2019/20 and the operating loss would still have been lower than the preceding three seasons in L1 by some margin.
I do appreciate your taking the time to respond on this and I won't push it any more on match day, but I honestly still fail to see your alternative proposal to cutting ones cloth to what one has. Promotion is no solution. Even if your figures are right, you are only saying that, if we spent to get promoted, we would only then be adding to the club's debt massively - rather than very massively - each year. And of course in the past nine years we have done better financially in the Championship because, over that period, we have had squads that were either nearly or actually relegated, or else essentially put together in League One. We have never had to build a competitive squad in the Championship. Then when we got relegated we were paying Championship contracts in League One. That is a very different situation to now, where we do not have the legacy contracts.
If you read Thomas’s interview with me in December 2020 he argued that he could put together a promotion team in the Championship without spending big because players are overpaid and he wouldn’t meet the wages. More magical thinking - it can happen because he says so, regardless of everyone else’s view.
This is all delusional - as is the latest idea that he is going to break even in L1. It’s his claim that the gap in 21/22 was £8m. The only way you make a significant dent is by reducing football wages but inevitably if you do that it will have consequences. I’m not saying it’s impossible to get better value but you will never get to break even because you are losing an amount as big as the whole football budget.
Staff cutbacks are trivial in this picture. The club is also inept at handling them which is resulting in unexpectedly large payouts. This is not the hallmark of an organisation behaving professionally or being managed competently.
The commercial revenue is poor - and will remain so, which is why he can’t retain senior appointees around it - and ticket revenue is going backwards because of his own pricing policy.
It isn’t the principle of sustainability which is wrong, it’s that he cannot get there but pretends he can, taking a section of fans with him because they want to believe it. As with much else he has said, it doesn’t make it true.
You will only close the gap substantially by 1) selling your best players every year at a higher rate than ever before and/or 2) getting promoted, which gives you the higher central income and a product people are more willing to buy.
Any other way forward than promotion needs to come from the restructuring of the game - which TS cannot deliver.
Just as I see it - very well put but we shouldn't be surprised of course. AB has the knowledge, personal experience AND the intelligence to summarise just what's wrong with our owner's master plan and is clear to those who care about the future of our club ( and not just what business we failed to do before the window closed)
I fail to understand why some just cannot see the wood for the trees...in this case the sequoias.
Yes, we owe a debt of gratitude to Thomas, but that will slowly but surely fade into relative insignificance unless he changes tack and realises he DOES need the assistance/advice of others who wear that T shirt with pride.
To continue down the path he's currently treading will likely lead to failure & his legacy may well be that the road to hell was paved with good intentions...and little else.
However, as long as he persists with his " new broom " tactics, ensuring that bar one, loyal staff members are swept aside for cheaper options in accordance with his cunning plan to take our club to the Land of Milk & Money, he will find Sandgaard & Co ploughing a lonely furrow. To be surrounded by "yes men/women etc " who follow orders without question sounds like a recipe for disaster, with the likely outcome, backwards & downwards, if you get my meaning.
Regardless of success on the pitch, with the setting of his matchday ticket prices together with the worrying cost of living situation, I fail to see how attendances will hold up at The Valley - another aspect of his ownership that is flawed.
So, where does all this lead, you may ask.
I'm not alone in hearing rumours of his desire to sell up & that he possible already has a buyer but whether this is dependant on promotion come May is unclear.
If the latter is the case, his seeming reluctance to strengthen our squad in order to maximise the goal of a top 6 placing, is even more perplexing ...and I don't mean the lack of business on transfer deadline day.
The way that I see it currently, is that we're a club in no man's land.
And, sadly, albeit with a decent squad of players & a decent manager, the naive, muddled thinking behind the scenes will likely result in yet another unsuccessful season for our beloved football club.
I'm not sure a buyer only prepared to take us on if we're in the Championship could be said to be have the best interests of the Club at heart. I'd expect them to take us on now, warts an'all. Besides which, I doubt Thomas would be as ready to go, if he is now that is, should we go up. The success would prove to be a huge ego trip for him and he'd crave more.
I don't really care what some might think. I buy the streams and watch the club but going to matches when I have a long journey home totally disapointed is not what I want to do aged 58 years. I have done all that and bought the T-shirt. I am fed up with us being owned by crooks and fools and with every opportunity that supports itself, that opportunity is missed.
My point about the importance of different types of fans I know is not a popular one, but telling people to attend isn't going to make it happen. It is a reality which any business owner has to understand and address. If I did force myself to go, it would make absolutely no diference and the dog would be more likely to get kicked!(not really I am an animal lover). But I am going to do things I get some pleasure from at this stage of my life.
I go because I love the club, not because I'm forced to go. You please yourself, but don't have the audacity to say you are more important to the club because you won't go. Sickening.
Firstly I do contribute to the club and do go to games, just I pick and choose. Secondly, you completely missed my point and I know it is not a point people like to read, but the most important fans are the harder fans to get coming to games. That doesn't mean they are the most deserving or warrant any praise, but those are completely different things from being the most important.
And in terms of fans of around my age, did you go to every Selhurst game like I did? Not that many did. I didn't then but realise now that those that didn't go were more important than me, especially those that didn't go and fought for a return to he Valley. I went to Belgium to protest and I notice not that many others made the effort.
Another thing I have realised in my old age is that I am a bad loser, and watching shitty little teams come to the Valley and take a point or three from us gives me no pleasure whatsoever. In fact it puts me in a foul mood which I don't want to impose on my family. I don't live round the corner and I absolutely hate the drive home after such a result.
Because we have been owned by fools and crooks we are in League One. We have been here too long and I expect us to get out of it and I see that as the club's side of the bargain from my perspective.
I know you contribute and go to some games I didn't say otherwise.
I didn't miss your point. I 100% disagree that the most important Charlton fans are the fair weather fans. In fact it enrages me that you suggest that the occasional attendee is more important to Charlton than the fans that make the effort to attend all/most matches and it is their money together with TS (more TS) that is keeping the club afloat.
If it weren't for the less important (according to you) hardcore support there wouldn't be a club.
How long would the club last relying on the fair weather fans, with attendances of a couple of thousand? (To be clear I'm not talking about people who have difficulty attending because of distance, finances, circumstances etc. I'm talking about people who choose not to go because we're not doing as well as they would like/don't like the manager etc).
Yes I did go to every game at Selhurst bar one play off game when I had a pre booked holiday. I also attended the full member cup games there were 817 of us IIRC for one game.
I also went to Belgium with Bolloxbolder.
You're not old, you said you're 58. I'm older than you and don't consider myself old (don't all laugh).
Losing to shitty little teams gives no fan pleasure, but please stop asserting that the hard core fans, who continue to turn up and support Charlton through thick and thin, watching us lose to shitty little clubs are less important to the club than the fans that don't turn up to support their team.
The main reason we are in League 1 is not because of fools and crook owners. They are what have come along because we don't have a big enough hard core support and too many fair weather fans.
If we had 20,000 fans attending every week we would be able to better compete with Ipswich, Sheff W etc and more of The Championship clubs.
I've missed 6 home games since 1972, due to weddings and one pre booked holiday and I'm not suggesting supporters like me are better than supporters like you.
But I am saying that you are talking utter nonsense if you believe that occasional attendees are more important to the club than the regulars.
Do Tesco think that the people that pop in 5 times a year are more important than their weekly shoppers? Does a pub think that someone that pops in a few times a year is more important than their regulars? No, they don't and you are talking rubbish.
You are obviously free to say what you want on here from early morning to evening, mainly criticising the club, but I draw the line when you start saying you are more important to the club because you don't go much.
Once again I salute the less important fans up at Bolton today, who have probably been up since 6/7am and won't get home much before 11pm. I for one am grateful.
It is a fact that in the last nine seasons for which we have figures, Charlton's operating losses have consistently been much higher in League One than in the Championship - with the exception of 2015/16. I am not excluding 2020/21 because the announced number is distorted by an £8.1m asset transfer to Roland. Not sure why that is so had Roland/ESI could have spent another £5m on players' wages in 2019/20 and the operating loss would still have been lower than the preceding three seasons in L1 by some margin.
I do appreciate your taking the time to respond on this and I won't push it any more on match day, but I honestly still fail to see your alternative proposal to cutting ones cloth to what one has. Promotion is no solution. Even if your figures are right, you are only saying that, if we spent to get promoted, we would only then be adding to the club's debt massively - rather than very massively - each year. And of course in the past nine years we have done better financially in the Championship because, over that period, we have had squads that were either nearly or actually relegated, or else essentially put together in League One. We have never had to build a competitive squad in the Championship. Then when we got relegated we were paying Championship contracts in League One. That is a very different situation to now, where we do not have the legacy contracts.
If you read Thomas’s interview with me in December 2020 he argued that he could put together a promotion team in the Championship without spending big because players are overpaid and he wouldn’t meet the wages. More magical thinking - it can happen because he says so, regardless of everyone else’s view.
This is all delusional - as is the latest idea that he is going to break even in L1. It’s his claim that the gap in 21/22 was £8m. The only way you make a significant dent is by reducing football wages but inevitably if you do that it will have consequences. I’m not saying it’s impossible to get better value but you will never get to break even because you are losing an amount as big as the whole football budget.
Staff cutbacks are trivial in this picture. The club is also inept at handling them which is resulting in unexpectedly large payouts. This is not the hallmark of an organisation behaving professionally or being managed competently.
The commercial revenue is poor - and will remain so, which is why he can’t retain senior appointees around it - and ticket revenue is going backwards because of his own pricing policy.
It isn’t the principle of sustainability which is wrong, it’s that he cannot get there but pretends he can, taking a section of fans with him because they want to believe it. As with much else he has said, it doesn’t make it true.
You will only close the gap substantially by 1) selling your best players every year at a higher rate than ever before and/or 2) getting promoted, which gives you the higher central income and a product people are more willing to buy.
Any other way forward than promotion needs to come from the restructuring of the game - which TS cannot deliver.
Just as I see it - very well put but we shouldn't be surprised of course. AB has the knowledge, personal experience AND the intelligence to summarise just what's wrong with our owner's master plan and is clear to those who care about the future of our club ( and not just what business we failed to do before the window closed)
I fail to understand why some just cannot see the wood for the trees...in this case the sequoias.
Yes, we owe a debt of gratitude to Thomas, but that will slowly but surely fade into relative insignificance unless he changes tack and realises he DOES need the assistance/advice of others who wear that T shirt with pride.
To continue down the path he's currently treading will likely lead to failure & his legacy may well be that the road to hell was paved with good intentions...and little else.
However, as long as he persists with his " new broom " tactics, ensuring that bar one, loyal staff members are swept aside for cheaper options in accordance with his cunning plan to take our club to the Land of Milk & Money, he will find Sandgaard & Co ploughing a lonely furrow. To be surrounded by "yes men/women etc " who follow orders without question sounds like a recipe for disaster, with the likely outcome, backwards & downwards, if you get my meaning.
Regardless of success on the pitch, with the setting of his matchday ticket prices together with the worrying cost of living situation, I fail to see how attendances will hold up at The Valley - another aspect of his ownership that is flawed.
So, where does all this lead, you may ask.
I'm not alone in hearing rumours of his desire to sell up & that he possible already has a buyer but whether this is dependant on promotion come May is unclear.
If the latter is the case, his seeming reluctance to strengthen our squad in order to maximise the goal of a top 6 placing, is even more perplexing ...and I don't mean the lack of business on transfer deadline day.
The way that I see it currently, is that we're a club in no man's land.
And, sadly, albeit with a decent squad of players & a decent manager, the naive, muddled thinking behind the scenes will likely result in yet another unsuccessful season for our beloved football club.
Doubtful,after the transfer window we've just witnessed.
I don't really care what some might think. I buy the streams and watch the club but going to matches when I have a long journey home totally disapointed is not what I want to do aged 58 years. I have done all that and bought the T-shirt. I am fed up with us being owned by crooks and fools and with every opportunity that supports itself, that opportunity is missed.
My point about the importance of different types of fans I know is not a popular one, but telling people to attend isn't going to make it happen. It is a reality which any business owner has to understand and address. If I did force myself to go, it would make absolutely no diference and the dog would be more likely to get kicked!(not really I am an animal lover). But I am going to do things I get some pleasure from at this stage of my life.
I go because I love the club, not because I'm forced to go. You please yourself, but don't have the audacity to say you are more important to the club because you won't go. Sickening.
Firstly I do contribute to the club and do go to games, just I pick and choose. Secondly, you completely missed my point and I know it is not a point people like to read, but the most important fans are the harder fans to get coming to games. That doesn't mean they are the most deserving or warrant any praise, but those are completely different things from being the most important.
And in terms of fans of around my age, did you go to every Selhurst game like I did? Not that many did. I didn't then but realise now that those that didn't go were more important than me, especially those that didn't go and fought for a return to he Valley. I went to Belgium to protest and I notice not that many others made the effort.
Another thing I have realised in my old age is that I am a bad loser, and watching shitty little teams come to the Valley and take a point or three from us gives me no pleasure whatsoever. In fact it puts me in a foul mood which I don't want to impose on my family. I don't live round the corner and I absolutely hate the drive home after such a result.
Because we have been owned by fools and crooks we are in League One. We have been here too long and I expect us to get out of it and I see that as the club's side of the bargain from my perspective.
I know you contribute and go to some games I didn't say otherwise.
I didn't miss your point. I 100% disagree that the most important Charlton fans are the fair weather fans. In fact it enrages me that you suggest that the occasional attendee is more important to Charlton than the fans that make the effort to attend all/most matches and it is their money together with TS (more TS) that is keeping the club afloat.
If it weren't for the less important (according to you) hardcore support there wouldn't be a club.
How long would the club last relying on the fair weather fans, with attendances of a couple of thousand? (To be clear I'm not talking about people who have difficulty attending because of distance, finances, circumstances etc. I'm talking about people who choose not to go because we're not doing as well as they would like/don't like the manager etc).
Yes I did go to every game at Selhurst bar one play off game when I had a pre booked holiday. I also attended the full member cup games there were 817 of us IIRC for one game.
I also went to Belgium with Bolloxbolder.
You're not old, you said you're 58. I'm older than you and don't consider myself old (don't all laugh).
Losing to shitty little teams gives no fan pleasure, but please stop asserting that the hard core fans, who continue to turn up and support Charlton through thick and thin, watching us lose to shitty little clubs are less important to the club than the fans that don't turn up to support their team.
The main reason we are in League 1 is not because of fools and crook owners. They are what have come along because we don't have a big enough hard core support and too many fair weather fans.
If we had 20,000 fans attending every week we would be able to better compete with Ipswich, Sheff W etc and more of The Championship clubs.
I've missed 6 home games since 1972, due to weddings and one pre booked holiday and I'm not suggesting supporters like me are better than supporters like you.
But I am saying that you are talking utter nonsense if you believe that occasional attendees are more important to the club than the regulars.
Do Tesco think that the people that pop in 5 times a year are more important than their weekly shoppers? Does a pub think that someone that pops in a few times a year is more important than their regulars? No, they don't and you are talking rubbish.
You are obviously free to say what you want on here from early morning to evening, mainly criticising the club, but I draw the line when you start saying you are more important to the club because you don't go much.
Once again I salute the less important fans up at Bolton today, who have probably been up since 6/7am and won't get home much before 11pm. I for one am grateful.
Well, you have changed the meaning of important to suit your narrative. And by all means recruit 20k less important ones and they will then become important. How do you think we can do that under this owner? Serious question.
I believe that if he went, and I am grateful for him wrestling the club from crooks believe it or not, but if he went, it would be a positive for the club as there would be people ready to step in. I think he is damaging the club and if you want to blame me you are giving me far more importance than I have. I don't consider myself important at all but I don't know why I use the word as we don't seem to understand it the same way.
Well we’ve lost 20% of our important fans from last year arguably by trying to target the fairweathers - bit like pissing an existing client off by concentrating more on new ones -anyway, whatever - those who don’t go coz they don’t like what they see are free to do so but have lost the right to expect anything in my opinion.
So you have the right. What do you expect? League One football for the forseeable? People can expect what they want to expect of course. We have lost 20% of fans because we are in League One and we finished in the bottom half of that last season IMO. If we look like we are making a fist of getting out of it, they will come back. At least a lot of them will. So that is what Sandgaard has to achieve rather than beer promotions that have zero effect. A striker and CB might have helped. He seems less bothered about that despite you making it clear it is what was needed.
I don't really care what some might think. I buy the streams and watch the club but going to matches when I have a long journey home totally disapointed is not what I want to do aged 58 years. I have done all that and bought the T-shirt. I am fed up with us being owned by crooks and fools and with every opportunity that supports itself, that opportunity is missed.
My point about the importance of different types of fans I know is not a popular one, but telling people to attend isn't going to make it happen. It is a reality which any business owner has to understand and address. If I did force myself to go, it would make absolutely no diference and the dog would be more likely to get kicked!(not really I am an animal lover). But I am going to do things I get some pleasure from at this stage of my life.
I go because I love the club, not because I'm forced to go. You please yourself, but don't have the audacity to say you are more important to the club because you won't go. Sickening.
Firstly I do contribute to the club and do go to games, just I pick and choose. Secondly, you completely missed my point and I know it is not a point people like to read, but the most important fans are the harder fans to get coming to games. That doesn't mean they are the most deserving or warrant any praise, but those are completely different things from being the most important.
And in terms of fans of around my age, did you go to every Selhurst game like I did? Not that many did. I didn't then but realise now that those that didn't go were more important than me, especially those that didn't go and fought for a return to he Valley. I went to Belgium to protest and I notice not that many others made the effort.
Another thing I have realised in my old age is that I am a bad loser, and watching shitty little teams come to the Valley and take a point or three from us gives me no pleasure whatsoever. In fact it puts me in a foul mood which I don't want to impose on my family. I don't live round the corner and I absolutely hate the drive home after such a result.
Because we have been owned by fools and crooks we are in League One. We have been here too long and I expect us to get out of it and I see that as the club's side of the bargain from my perspective.
So did we, and I saw to that old evil bastard giving you medals for it too.
I saw every game too but the crowds weren't big. You will be able to testify to that. Do you recall us playing Palace at home! and them wanting to give us the away end? Fortunately Noades didn't win that one although I think they beat us in the match if I remember correctly. And we did rise above them even if that has all changed now.
I don't really care what some might think. I buy the streams and watch the club but going to matches when I have a long journey home totally disapointed is not what I want to do aged 58 years. I have done all that and bought the T-shirt. I am fed up with us being owned by crooks and fools and with every opportunity that supports itself, that opportunity is missed.
My point about the importance of different types of fans I know is not a popular one, but telling people to attend isn't going to make it happen. It is a reality which any business owner has to understand and address. If I did force myself to go, it would make absolutely no diference and the dog would be more likely to get kicked!(not really I am an animal lover). But I am going to do things I get some pleasure from at this stage of my life.
I go because I love the club, not because I'm forced to go. You please yourself, but don't have the audacity to say you are more important to the club because you won't go. Sickening.
Firstly I do contribute to the club and do go to games, just I pick and choose. Secondly, you completely missed my point and I know it is not a point people like to read, but the most important fans are the harder fans to get coming to games. That doesn't mean they are the most deserving or warrant any praise, but those are completely different things from being the most important.
And in terms of fans of around my age, did you go to every Selhurst game like I did? Not that many did. I didn't then but realise now that those that didn't go were more important than me, especially those that didn't go and fought for a return to he Valley.
Another thing I have realised in my old age is that I am a bad loser, and watching shitty little teams come to the Valley and take a point or three from us gives me no pleasure whatsoever. In fact it puts me in a foul mood which I don't want to impose on my family. I don't live round the corner and I absolutely hate the drive home after such a result.
Because we have been owned by fools and crooks we are in League One. We have been here too long and I expect us to get out of it and I see that as the club's side of the bargain from my perspective.
I'm not having it. 58 isn't old age, just past your prime having seen better days. You might feel it, but that's watching Charlton for you 😎
Hear, Hear. When you get to @Redmidland age then you’ll realise what fecking old is! 😉
And in terms of fans of around my age, did you go to every Selhurst game like I did? Not that many did.
I was a season ticket holder and saw every game there
I went to most games there too. I could have been rubbing shoulders with some of you other Lifer's there, or rather swinging a cat between us so cramped were we 😎
Anyway, whilst others have been reminiscing about the Selhurst years, I've been phoning round and have found an old people's home prepared to take in @MuttleyCAFC, although I didn't ask about a VPN, so he might not be able to access the match thread. 😎
I know I've got it coming to me in spades after that, but I couldn't resist. 58 years old FFS!
I must say I find the spat between my mate @Covered End and @MuttleyCAFC disappointing. The two of you are legendary fans in my eyes and bleed Charlton. I suspect when we die all three of us will have the Red Red Robin played at our funerals.
I can never understand any die hard fan not going to home games and therefore don't understand people not attending, but physical distance may change for me in future years, so it may become a factor. The bad loser statement certainly resonates with me!!
Although Muttley doesn't know me, I did attend a B20 meeting and I know very well his financial and personal contribution to fighting the rat in Belgium and I salute you sir.
And in terms of fans of around my age, did you go to every Selhurst game like I did? Not that many did.
I was a season ticket holder and saw every game there
I went to most games there too. I could have been rubbing shoulders with some of you other Lifer's there, or rather swinging a cat between us so cramped were we 😎
Anyway, whilst others have been reminiscing about the Selhurst years, I've been phoning round and have found an old people's home prepared to take in @MuttleyCAFC, although I didn't ask about a VPN, so he might not be able to access the match thread. 😎
I know I've got it coming to me in spades after that, but I couldn't resist. 58 years old FFS!
That is the trouble with these Young fans, they think they know it all🤣
I used to be able to do 100 plus keepy uppies without thinking about it. Playing football with my two year old nephew yesterday reminded me those days are long gone with my arthritic knees. I feel young enough when I am sitting down but otherwise pretty old!
I must say I find the spat between my mate @Covered End and @MuttleyCAFC disappointing. The two of you are legendary fans in my eyes and bleed Charlton. I suspect when we die all three of us will have the Red Red Robin played at our funerals.
I can never understand any die hard fan not going to home games and therefore don't understand people not attending, but physical distance may change for me in future years, so it may become a factor. The bad loser statement certainly resonates with me!!
Although Muttley doesn't know me, I did attend a B20 meeting and I know very well his financial and personal contribution to fighting the rat in Belgium and I salute you sir.
Charlton til I die. COYA.
Valley Floyd Road played at my wedding and my son was christened at the Valley.
Hard core & fair weathers all attend - most likely we are established in Championship.
Hard core & a few fair weathers attend - most likely we move between Championship & League 1.
Hard core only attend - we spend more time in League 1 & less in Championship.
Hard core don't attend - club goes bust.
At the moment, and for the last few years, bar the promotion season under Bowyer and the subsequent season in the Championship, I have been at games in body and not in spirit. I’ll always go, as bleak as it gets, but I can understand why people are dropping off. It’s personal choice and so many factors come into it. My uncle was religiously going from 15/16 up until the end of the championship season, rarely missing a game. He’s done with it now for a variety of reasons.
When I go on the coach I see the same hardy souls that have been doing it for so long and it’s part of their lives. Probably the same for those of you that go up by train and the new generation. I’m now at an age where I’ve been going regularly since 92/93 (although my dad took me to a lot of games in the late 80s when I was 5/6), which means like a lot of you, we probably recognise the loyal crew that go no matter what. For me it’s a couple of things. Life events, sadly people passing, we’ve lost a good few regulars over the last years, and then general disinterest.
Hopefully at some point in the next few years there might be an upturn in our fortunes, but football in general seems very uncertain at the moment given the debts accrued by all but the top top clubs. I’m only 40 so I don’t have a good comparison, but I remember seeing soccer Saturday once talking about the mid 80s when no TV stations wanted to offer a deal, due to things like hooliganism. It was the season Cottee and Macaveney (I think) scored tons of goals for West Ham and hardly anyone saw it.
Perhaps, like recessions, downturns, pandemics, ice ages, football is cyclical and the sport is due for a downturn for all but the elite.
Comments
I’m sure Sessegnon will deliver, and I’m positive about the others as well, but I was positive about Lee, Leko, Kirk and even Arter last year.
Hopefully we get to see some of that this season.
If TS isn't willing or able to pay either high fees or wages, I am not sure it makes sense to wait until the very last day in the hope that he is going to be able to offer the highest wages, or even the highest price if he is able to pay a fee. In my view it is more of a lottery over which he has little control.
Not just me saying this but Sandgaard also.
So I will judge our recruitment this summer by where we finish in the league.
At things stand my guess would be about 10th.
Hopefully I am wrong.
And in terms of fans of around my age, did you go to every Selhurst game like I did? Not that many did. I didn't then but realise now that those that didn't go were more important than me, especially those that didn't go and fought for a return to he Valley. I went to Belgium to protest and I notice not that many others made the effort.
Another thing I have realised in my old age is that I am a bad loser, and watching shitty little teams come to the Valley and take a point or three from us gives me no pleasure whatsoever. In fact it puts me in a foul mood which I don't want to impose on my family. I don't live round the corner and I absolutely hate the drive home after such a result.
Because we have been owned by fools and crooks we are in League One. We have been here too long and I expect us to get out of it and I see that as the club's side of the bargain from my perspective.
I fail to understand why some just cannot see the wood for the trees...in this case the sequoias.
Yes, we owe a debt of gratitude to Thomas, but that will slowly but surely fade into relative insignificance unless he changes tack and realises he DOES need the assistance/advice of others who wear that T shirt with pride.
To continue down the path he's currently treading will likely lead to failure & his legacy may well be that the road to hell was paved with good intentions...and little else.
However, as long as he persists with his " new broom " tactics, ensuring that bar one, loyal staff members are swept aside for cheaper options in accordance with his cunning plan to take our club to the Land of Milk & Money, he will find Sandgaard & Co ploughing a lonely furrow. To be surrounded by "yes men/women etc " who follow orders without question sounds like a recipe for disaster, with the likely outcome, backwards & downwards, if you get my meaning.
Regardless of success on the pitch, with the setting of his matchday ticket prices together with the worrying cost of living situation, I fail to see how attendances will hold up at The Valley - another aspect of his ownership that is flawed.
So, where does all this lead, you may ask.
I'm not alone in hearing rumours of his desire to sell up & that he possibly already has a buyer but whether this is dependant on promotion come May is unclear.
If the latter is the case, his seeming reluctance to strengthen our squad in order to maximise the goal of a top 6 placing, is even more perplexing ...and I don't mean the lack of business on transfer deadline day.
The way that I see it currently, is that we're a club in no man's land.
And, sadly, albeit with a decent squad of players & a decent manager, the naive, muddled thinking behind the scenes will likely result in yet another unsuccessful season for our beloved football club.
I didn't miss your point. I 100% disagree that the most important Charlton fans are the fair weather fans.
In fact it enrages me that you suggest that the occasional attendee is more important to Charlton than the fans that make the effort to attend all/most matches and it is their money together with TS (more TS) that is keeping the club afloat.
If it weren't for the less important (according to you) hardcore support there wouldn't be a club.
How long would the club last relying on the fair weather fans, with attendances of a couple of thousand?
(To be clear I'm not talking about people who have difficulty attending because of distance, finances, circumstances etc. I'm talking about people who choose not to go because we're not doing as well as they would like/don't like the manager etc).
Yes I did go to every game at Selhurst bar one play off game when I had a pre booked holiday.
I also attended the full member cup games there were 817 of us IIRC for one game.
I also went to Belgium with Bolloxbolder.
You're not old, you said you're 58.
I'm older than you and don't consider myself old (don't all laugh).
Losing to shitty little teams gives no fan pleasure, but please stop asserting that the hard core fans, who continue to turn up and support Charlton through thick and thin, watching us lose to shitty little clubs are less important to the club than the fans that don't turn up to support their team.
The main reason we are in League 1 is not because of fools and crook owners.
They are what have come along because we don't have a big enough hard core support and too many fair weather fans.
If we had 20,000 fans attending every week we would be able to better compete with Ipswich, Sheff W etc and more of The Championship clubs.
I've missed 6 home games since 1972, due to weddings and one pre booked holiday and I'm not suggesting supporters like me are better than supporters like you.
But I am saying that you are talking utter nonsense if you believe that occasional attendees are more important to the club than the regulars.
Do Tesco think that the people that pop in 5 times a year are more important than their weekly shoppers?
Does a pub think that someone that pops in a few times a year is more important than their regulars?
No, they don't and you are talking rubbish.
You are obviously free to say what you want on here from early morning to evening, mainly criticising the club, but I draw the line when you start saying you are more important to the club because you don't go much.
Once again I salute the less important fans up at Bolton today, who have probably been up since 6/7am and won't get home much before 11pm. I for one am grateful.
I believe that if he went, and I am grateful for him wrestling the club from crooks believe it or not, but if he went, it would be a positive for the club as there would be people ready to step in. I think he is damaging the club and if you want to blame me you are giving me far more importance than I have. I don't consider myself important at all but I don't know why I use the word as we don't seem to understand it the same way.
Hard core & a few fair weathers attend - most likely we move between Championship & League 1.
Hard core only attend - we spend more time in League 1 & less in Championship.
Hard core don't attend - club goes bust.
When you get to @Redmidland age then you’ll realise what fecking old is! 😉
Anyway, whilst others have been reminiscing about the Selhurst years, I've been phoning round and have found an old people's home prepared to take in @MuttleyCAFC, although I didn't ask about a VPN, so he might not be able to access the match thread. 😎
I know I've got it coming to me in spades after that, but I couldn't resist. 58 years old FFS!
I can never understand any die hard fan not going to home games and therefore don't understand people not attending, but physical distance may change for me in future years, so it may become a factor. The bad loser statement certainly resonates with me!!
Although Muttley doesn't know me, I did attend a B20 meeting and I know very well his financial and personal contribution to fighting the rat in Belgium and I salute you sir.
Charlton til I die. COYA.
Perhaps, like recessions, downturns, pandemics, ice ages, football is cyclical and the sport is due for a downturn for all but the elite.