I actually thought Stockley did okay at what he does second half (after being dominated the first half) and I think reference to him as a Donkey is slightly unfair. I counted 6 times in the first 10 or so minutes where he dropped in deep won a tricky ball under pressure and distributed it well.
If you’re a donkey you can’t do that.
Of course you can. Even donkeys can play simple passes. The other week when Leaburn turned and instantly hit a through ball with the outside of his foot to put DJ through on goal - that's something donkeys can't do. When Jayden does that, I'll say he's not a donkey.
When Jayden won the ball to the right of the area against Plymouth and ran to the bye line and put a perfect across for Kirk to win the Penalty which Stockley put away with aplomb.
I understand the narrative.
Both Sheffield Wednesday and Sunderland wanted Jayden Stockley; not because he's a Donkey but because in the correct formation which appears to be in a two up front he is useful at this level or with good support as Jayden received in the Plymouth home game.
I actually thought Stockley did okay at what he does second half (after being dominated the first half) and I think reference to him as a Donkey is slightly unfair. I counted 6 times in the first 10 or so minutes where he dropped in deep won a tricky ball under pressure and distributed it well.
If you’re a donkey you can’t do that.
Of course you can. Even donkeys can play simple passes. The other week when Leaburn turned and instantly hit a through ball with the outside of his foot to put DJ through on goal - that's something donkeys can't do. When Jayden does that, I'll say he's not a donkey.
When Jayden won the ball to the right of the area against Plymouth and ran to the bye line and put a perfect across for Kirk to win the Penalty which Stockley put away with aplomb.
I understand the narrative.
Both Sheffield Wednesday and Sunderland wanted Jayden Stockley; not because he's a Donkey but because in the correct formation which appears to be in a two up front he is useful at this level or with good support as Jayden received in the Plymouth home game.
I've just watched that back and that should be a pretty simple ball for a professional footballer under no pressure. If you're not making that, you're playing at the wrong level.
I don't disagree that he's useful in the right style and formation, but we're not playing it, and I don't think he's SO useful in that style that we should be building around him.
You only have to watch someone like Charles or even Leaburn when he's on the pitch to see how limited Jayden is with his feet. You are not going to see him pick it up, turn, buy half a yard and get his shot away. He just doesn't have the ability or mobility.
I actually thought Stockley did okay at what he does second half (after being dominated the first half) and I think reference to him as a Donkey is slightly unfair. I counted 6 times in the first 10 or so minutes where he dropped in deep won a tricky ball under pressure and distributed it well.
If you’re a donkey you can’t do that.
Of course you can. Even donkeys can play simple passes. The other week when Leaburn turned and instantly hit a through ball with the outside of his foot to put DJ through on goal - that's something donkeys can't do. When Jayden does that, I'll say he's not a donkey.
Even donkey’s can take a bouncing ball down under pressure, with a brute like Santos on your back, ride a couple of challenges and ping a fizzed ball out to the wing straight to a player?
Okay then.
I get we don’t like Stockley here, and I certainly don’t think he is correct for the system or style of play we should be aiming for. I said as much when I would have liked us to sign Wilkes or McKirdy, as we need a fluid front 3 that can interchange positions.
I actually thought Stockley did okay at what he does second half (after being dominated the first half) and I think reference to him as a Donkey is slightly unfair. I counted 6 times in the first 10 or so minutes where he dropped in deep won a tricky ball under pressure and distributed it well.
If you’re a donkey you can’t do that.
Of course you can. Even donkeys can play simple passes. The other week when Leaburn turned and instantly hit a through ball with the outside of his foot to put DJ through on goal - that's something donkeys can't do. When Jayden does that, I'll say he's not a donkey.
Even donkey’s can take a bouncing ball down under pressure, with a brute like Santos on your back, ride a couple of challenges and ping a fizzed ball out to the wing straight to a player?
Obviously we have different ideas of what constitutes a 'donkey.' I am getting the feeling you are picturing a player with two pieces of strings for legs that have boots tied at the end that flail around trying to kick a football. For me, it's a player of very limited technical ability who struggles to play with their feet beyond the minimum you'd need to be a professional in the first place.
What you're describing above requires more strength than technique. I mean, imagine a professional L1 striker who can't bring a bouncing ball down or play a pass out to the wing? Then we're not even describing a footballer.
I feel like we're back to the Matthews/Purrington defenses where we give players disproportionate kudos for doing very simple things. What about everything they don't or can't do.
What if Jayden could take a touch and roll Santos. Or take him on with the ball at his feet, buy half a yard? Or turn, get his head up and pick out a forward pass. Did he once get Santos face-up? Or even on the half-turn? No because he's limited with his feet, so he doesn't play that way.
He was at his best for us when he had a strike partner and Ben Amos could put those lovely angled long goal kicks just where he wanted them and he won a lot in the air. Then we didn't see his limitations so much because we didn't ask him to receive it to his feet.
I actually thought Stockley did okay at what he does second half (after being dominated the first half) and I think reference to him as a Donkey is slightly unfair. I counted 6 times in the first 10 or so minutes where he dropped in deep won a tricky ball under pressure and distributed it well.
If you’re a donkey you can’t do that.
Of course you can. Even donkeys can play simple passes. The other week when Leaburn turned and instantly hit a through ball with the outside of his foot to put DJ through on goal - that's something donkeys can't do. When Jayden does that, I'll say he's not a donkey.
Even donkey’s can take a bouncing ball down under pressure, with a brute like Santos on your back, ride a couple of challenges and ping a fizzed ball out to the wing straight to a player?
Obviously we have different ideas of what constitutes a 'donkey.' I am getting the feeling you are picturing a player with two pieces of strings for legs that have boots tied at the end that flail around trying to kick a football. For me, it's a player of very limited technical ability who struggles to play with their feet beyond the minimum you'd need to be a professional in the first place.
What you're describing above requires more strength than technique. I mean, imagine a professional L1 striker who can't bring a bouncing ball down or play a pass out to the wing? Then we're not even describing a footballer.
I feel like we're back to the Matthews/Purrington defenses where we give players disproportionate kudos for doing very simple things. What about everything they don't or can't do.
What if Jayden could take a touch and roll Santos. Or take him on with the ball at his feet, buy half a yard and got a shot away? Or turn, get his head up and pick out a forward pass. Did he once get Santos face-up? Or even on the half-turn? No because he's limited with his feet, so he doesn't play that way.
Okay Chunes, I think we should do a fun experiment. Let’s get down the park this week, I’ll get a big mate to be on your back and I’ll chuck some balls up to you in the air and you will have to control it, find the space, and hit a cross field ball to a cone.
I’ll then set up another drill where you have to move towards a ball coming towards you, turn and hit a ball to the cone with the outside of your foot instantly.
We can see which one you’re more successful at doing, and if it really requires limited technique to do the first drill.
I actually thought Stockley did okay at what he does second half (after being dominated the first half) and I think reference to him as a Donkey is slightly unfair. I counted 6 times in the first 10 or so minutes where he dropped in deep won a tricky ball under pressure and distributed it well.
If you’re a donkey you can’t do that.
Of course you can. Even donkeys can play simple passes. The other week when Leaburn turned and instantly hit a through ball with the outside of his foot to put DJ through on goal - that's something donkeys can't do. When Jayden does that, I'll say he's not a donkey.
Even donkey’s can take a bouncing ball down under pressure, with a brute like Santos on your back, ride a couple of challenges and ping a fizzed ball out to the wing straight to a player?
Obviously we have different ideas of what constitutes a 'donkey.' I am getting the feeling you are picturing a player with two pieces of strings for legs that have boots tied at the end that flail around trying to kick a football. For me, it's a player of very limited technical ability who struggles to play with their feet beyond the minimum you'd need to be a professional in the first place.
What you're describing above requires more strength than technique. I mean, imagine a professional L1 striker who can't bring a bouncing ball down or play a pass out to the wing? Then we're not even describing a footballer.
I feel like we're back to the Matthews/Purrington defenses where we give players disproportionate kudos for doing very simple things. What about everything they don't or can't do.
What if Jayden could take a touch and roll Santos. Or take him on with the ball at his feet, buy half a yard and got a shot away? Or turn, get his head up and pick out a forward pass. Did he once get Santos face-up? Or even on the half-turn? No because he's limited with his feet, so he doesn't play that way.
Okay Chunes, I think we should do a fun experiment. Let’s get down the park this week, I’ll get a big mate to be on your back and I’ll chuck some balls up to you in the air and you will have to control it, find the space, and hit a cross field ball to a cone.
I’ll then set up another drill where you have to move towards a ball coming towards you, turn and hit a ball to the cone with the outside of your foot instantly.
We can see which one you’re more successful at doing, and if it really requires limited technique to do the first drill.
As much as I like the sound of your big mate on my back, it's not registering high on my list of social engagements.
Santos not only had Stockley in his pocket but was allowed to be very influential in possession. And I am a Stockley supporter. He doesn't suit this system though unless he is up against weak defenders. He was far too isolated as he has been for much of the season.
Stating the obvious here……but time after time he was receiving the ball with his back to goal.🙁
Not sure why my comments on Dobson and Clare I made 12 months ago are being brought up for discussion. Neither were any good at the start of last season, and although they turned their form around incredibly well and are far from being an issue in the current side, that’s not the issue. They proved a lot of people wrong. Good on them! However, one is playing out of position by necessity yet proving to be decent, the other is all about winning it back and the more Garner has time to implement his style, the less I’ll see the him being used. We got a taste of that already against Derby. Give it a few months or another transfer window and I can see it being a way we go forward under Garner. But those two are not an issue and not what the conversation is about. Using a comment and opinion from a year ago to devalue an opinion now is a bit frustrating.
Stockley has offered us nothing this season. He doesn’t possess the leadership skills on the pitch to take us up a level. He doesn’t press but when he does it’s like he’s running through water, he’s constantly moaning at other players, like I’ve said before he doesn’t run in behind, his hold up play is actually poor for a man of his size, he’s not great with the ball at his feet, he’s often behind the play and unless we have patient build up and put the ball in the box, he doesn’t look threatening. I actually believe Davison would have offered us more so far because at least he’s willing to stretch a defence, he works hard, he’s less predictable.
We saw last season Stockley up front on his own is shocking and in a new style and system, I’ve seen nothing this season to change that.
Not sure why my comments on Dobson and Clare I made 12 months ago are being brought up for discussion. Neither were any good at the start of last season, and although they turned their form around incredibly well and are far from being an issue in the current side, that’s not the issue. They proved a lot of people wrong. Good on them! However, one is playing out of position by necessity yet proving to be decent, the other is all about winning it back and the more Garner has time to implement his style, the less I’ll see the him being used. We got a taste of that already against Derby. Give it a few months or another transfer window and I can see it being a way we go forward under Garner. But those two are not an issue and not what the conversation is about. Using a comment and opinion from a year ago to devalue an opinion now is a bit frustrating.
Stockley has offered us nothing this season. He doesn’t possess the leadership skills on the pitch to take us up a level. He doesn’t press but when he does lots like he’s running through water, he’s constantly moaning at other players, like I’ve said before he doesn’t run in behind, his hold up play is actually poor for a man of his size, he’s not great with the ball at his feet, he’s often behind the play and unless we have patient build up and put the ball in the box, he doesn’t look threatening. I actually believe Davison would have offered us more so far because at least he’s willing to stretch a defence, he works hard, he’s less predictable.
We saw last season Stockley up front on his own is shocking and in a new style and system, I’ve seen nothing this season to change that.
So why keep playing him? Put Leaburn up there, put Stockley and maybe Kanu on the bench. I know people, and probably the club, don’t want to put too much pressure on Leaburn, but at this point, can he do any worse? We know he can run, we know he can hold the ball up and pass. Sure he might get outmuscled by some of the old hands, but at this point, what is there to lose by going that route.
It’s not Stockleys fault Garner keeps playing him.
Not sure why my comments on Dobson and Clare I made 12 months ago are being brought up for discussion. Neither were any good at the start of last season, and although they turned their form around incredibly well and are far from being an issue in the current side, that’s not the issue. They proved a lot of people wrong. Good on them! However, one is playing out of position by necessity yet proving to be decent, the other is all about winning it back and the more Garner has time to implement his style, the less I’ll see the him being used. We got a taste of that already against Derby. Give it a few months or another transfer window and I can see it being a way we go forward under Garner. But those two are not an issue and not what the conversation is about. Using a comment and opinion from a year ago to devalue an opinion now is a bit frustrating.
Stockley has offered us nothing this season. He doesn’t possess the leadership skills on the pitch to take us up a level. He doesn’t press but when he does lots like he’s running through water, he’s constantly moaning at other players, like I’ve said before he doesn’t run in behind, his hold up play is actually poor for a man of his size, he’s not great with the ball at his feet, he’s often behind the play and unless we have patient build up and put the ball in the box, he doesn’t look threatening. I actually believe Davison would have offered us more so far because at least he’s willing to stretch a defence, he works hard, he’s less predictable.
We saw last season Stockley up front on his own is shocking and in a new style and system, I’ve seen nothing this season to change that.
So why keep playing him? Put Leaburn up there, put Stockley and maybe Kanu on the bench. I know people, and probably the club, don’t want to put too much pressure on Leaburn, but at this point, can he do any worse? We know he can run, we know he can hold the ball up and pass. Sure he might get outmuscled by some of the old hands, but at this point, what is there to lose by going that route.
It’s not Stockleys fault Garner keeps playing him.
Or alternatively buy a striker that suits the system. If only we could of had a transfer window.
Going by the title... Mansfield are probably annoyed that we pulled the plug on Jaiyesimi being loaned to them @ 10:59 (?) on Thursday night - But that only happened because QPR apparently moved the goal posts for the Bonne deal
Not sure why my comments on Dobson and Clare I made 12 months ago are being brought up for discussion. Neither were any good at the start of last season, and although they turned their form around incredibly well and are far from being an issue in the current side, that’s not the issue. They proved a lot of people wrong. Good on them! However, one is playing out of position by necessity yet proving to be decent, the other is all about winning it back and the more Garner has time to implement his style, the less I’ll see the him being used. We got a taste of that already against Derby. Give it a few months or another transfer window and I can see it being a way we go forward under Garner. But those two are not an issue and not what the conversation is about. Using a comment and opinion from a year ago to devalue an opinion now is a bit frustrating.
Stockley has offered us nothing this season. He doesn’t possess the leadership skills on the pitch to take us up a level. He doesn’t press but when he does lots like he’s running through water, he’s constantly moaning at other players, like I’ve said before he doesn’t run in behind, his hold up play is actually poor for a man of his size, he’s not great with the ball at his feet, he’s often behind the play and unless we have patient build up and put the ball in the box, he doesn’t look threatening. I actually believe Davison would have offered us more so far because at least he’s willing to stretch a defence, he works hard, he’s less predictable.
We saw last season Stockley up front on his own is shocking and in a new style and system, I’ve seen nothing this season to change that.
So why keep playing him? Put Leaburn up there, put Stockley and maybe Kanu on the bench. I know people, and probably the club, don’t want to put too much pressure on Leaburn, but at this point, can he do any worse? We know he can run, we know he can hold the ball up and pass. Sure he might get outmuscled by some of the old hands, but at this point, what is there to lose by going that route.
It’s not Stockleys fault Garner keeps playing him.
I don’t think Garner wants to start either of them up front on their own. It’s almost a case of less of the two evils. Leaburn has done well but he’s not ready or good enough for a team who need to overachieve to gain a top 6 position. It would not be fair at all, not on him, not on the rest of the players. We also start to venture into that territory we headed into around this time last season where Stockley was dropped because it wasn’t working. We don’t want to repeat history. It shouldn’t have come to this in the first place.
Interesting that we didn't get any loan players from the Big 6 clubs this time, despite 3 of them being London clubs. A consequence of loaning players, and not using them in previous seasons? Matt Smith (City), Levitt (Utd), Matt Smith (Arsenal), Nile John (Spurs), Castillo (Chelsea)...
Sorry Mansfield but tough shit. Thems the breaks and what you get for leaving it so late on deadline day. What sort of idiotic club would put all their eggs in one basket that late in the day........🙄🤷♂️
Interesting that we didn't get any loan players from the Big 6 clubs this time, despite 3 of them being London clubs. A consequence of loaning players, and not using them in previous seasons? Matt Smith (City), Levitt (Utd), Matt Smith (Arsenal), Nile John (Spurs), Castillo (Chelsea)...
I would guess cost is more likely the reason, though the lack of game time for those players wouldn’t have helped.
Going by the title... Mansfield are probably annoyed that we pulled the plug on Jaiyesimi being loaned to them @ 10:59 (?) on Thursday night - But that only happened because QPR apparently moved the goal posts for the Bonne deal
Not sure why my comments on Dobson and Clare I made 12 months ago are being brought up for discussion. Neither were any good at the start of last season, and although they turned their form around incredibly well and are far from being an issue in the current side, that’s not the issue. They proved a lot of people wrong. Good on them! However, one is playing out of position by necessity yet proving to be decent, the other is all about winning it back and the more Garner has time to implement his style, the less I’ll see the him being used. We got a taste of that already against Derby. Give it a few months or another transfer window and I can see it being a way we go forward under Garner. But those two are not an issue and not what the conversation is about. Using a comment and opinion from a year ago to devalue an opinion now is a bit frustrating.
Stockley has offered us nothing this season. He doesn’t possess the leadership skills on the pitch to take us up a level. He doesn’t press but when he does lots like he’s running through water, he’s constantly moaning at other players, like I’ve said before he doesn’t run in behind, his hold up play is actually poor for a man of his size, he’s not great with the ball at his feet, he’s often behind the play and unless we have patient build up and put the ball in the box, he doesn’t look threatening. I actually believe Davison would have offered us more so far because at least he’s willing to stretch a defence, he works hard, he’s less predictable.
We saw last season Stockley up front on his own is shocking and in a new style and system, I’ve seen nothing this season to change that.
So why keep playing him? Put Leaburn up there, put Stockley and maybe Kanu on the bench. I know people, and probably the club, don’t want to put too much pressure on Leaburn, but at this point, can he do any worse? We know he can run, we know he can hold the ball up and pass. Sure he might get outmuscled by some of the old hands, but at this point, what is there to lose by going that route.
It’s not Stockleys fault Garner keeps playing him.
I don’t think Garner wants to start either of them up front on their own. It’s almost a case of less of the two evils. Leaburn has done well but he’s not ready or good enough for a team who need to overachieve to gain a top 6 position. It would not be fair at all, not on him, not on the rest of the players. We also start to venture into that territory we headed into around this time last season where Stockley was dropped because it wasn’t working. We don’t want to repeat history. It shouldn’t have come to this in the first place.
Then he has to change his formation. If you don’t want to play either Leaburn or Stockley on their own, use a formation that plays to their strengths. Consensus is we won’t be top 6 with Stockley, so saying we won’t be top 6 with Leaburn doesn’t appear to change anything.
You’ve got to make it work with the players you have. Sticking to a playing style that can’t work makes no sense. It’s what got JJ the sack
But I think the criticism of Stockley is wildly overdone. Half the problem is poor balls into the box, and that he’s left completely isolated.
I feel sorry for Garner. To be left with his only striking options for the next seventeen games as one sick note, one centre forward who doesn't suit his system and a promising eighteen year old seems negligent and inexcusable.
Geoffrey Howe's famous cricketing analogy springs to mind, "it's rather like sending your opening batsmen to the crease, only for them to find, the moment the first balls are bowled, that their bats have been broken before the game by the team captain."
With 17 departures, albeit a lot of them dead wood, only 7 new arrivals leaves the squad spread too thin in key areas and I'm not sure we'll find free agents of CBT's quality, assuming we're actively looking for any.
Not sure why my comments on Dobson and Clare I made 12 months ago are being brought up for discussion. Neither were any good at the start of last season, and although they turned their form around incredibly well and are far from being an issue in the current side, that’s not the issue. They proved a lot of people wrong. Good on them! However, one is playing out of position by necessity yet proving to be decent, the other is all about winning it back and the more Garner has time to implement his style, the less I’ll see the him being used. We got a taste of that already against Derby. Give it a few months or another transfer window and I can see it being a way we go forward under Garner. But those two are not an issue and not what the conversation is about. Using a comment and opinion from a year ago to devalue an opinion now is a bit frustrating.
Stockley has offered us nothing this season. He doesn’t possess the leadership skills on the pitch to take us up a level. He doesn’t press but when he does lots like he’s running through water, he’s constantly moaning at other players, like I’ve said before he doesn’t run in behind, his hold up play is actually poor for a man of his size, he’s not great with the ball at his feet, he’s often behind the play and unless we have patient build up and put the ball in the box, he doesn’t look threatening. I actually believe Davison would have offered us more so far because at least he’s willing to stretch a defence, he works hard, he’s less predictable.
We saw last season Stockley up front on his own is shocking and in a new style and system, I’ve seen nothing this season to change that.
So why keep playing him? Put Leaburn up there, put Stockley and maybe Kanu on the bench. I know people, and probably the club, don’t want to put too much pressure on Leaburn, but at this point, can he do any worse? We know he can run, we know he can hold the ball up and pass. Sure he might get outmuscled by some of the old hands, but at this point, what is there to lose by going that route.
It’s not Stockleys fault Garner keeps playing him.
I don’t think Garner wants to start either of them up front on their own. It’s almost a case of less of the two evils. Leaburn has done well but he’s not ready or good enough for a team who need to overachieve to gain a top 6 position. It would not be fair at all, not on him, not on the rest of the players. We also start to venture into that territory we headed into around this time last season where Stockley was dropped because it wasn’t working. We don’t want to repeat history. It shouldn’t have come to this in the first place.
Then he has to change his formation. If you don’t want to play either Leaburn or Stockley on their own, use a formation that plays to their strengths. Consensus is we won’t be top 6 with Stockley, so saying we won’t be top 6 with Leaburn doesn’t appear to change anything.
You’ve got to make it work with the players you have. Sticking to a playing style that can’t work makes no sense. It’s what got JJ the sack
But I think the criticism of Stockley is wildly overdone. Half the problem is poor balls into the box, and that he’s left completely isolated.
The playing style is not the problem. It’s the first time in years and years we have had an identity and a playing style. It’s not Garner’s fault we don’t have a striker available to do the things he and the team want to achieve.
It is a problem in so far as getting to this style from where we were is a more expensive option than trying to improve areas of the old team/style. I have said this all along and if you want to change it surely you have to be willing to fund it. It may well be Sandgaard was initially willing to fund it but finances changed and with it his plans. I don't know but it is typical of the loose cannon he is IMO.
I think we may have stumbled on a decent manager but he is, as many have noticed, being asked to fit square pegs in round holes and is massively exposed to minor injuries in defence and attack.
It isn't as if Sandgaard has been tight with his money from the off. He has suprised me with some of the expensive mistakes he has made and that is a big part that shows his incompetence in terms of football. But if he can't do it with money, how the hell is he going to do it without?
I feel sorry for Garner. To be left with his only striking options for the next seventeen games as one sick note, one centre forward who doesn't suit his system and a promising eighteen year old seems negligent and inexcusable.
Geoffrey Howe's famous cricketing analogy springs to mind, "it's rather like sending your opening batsmen to the crease, only for them to find, the moment the first balls are bowled, that their bats have been broken before the game by the team captain."
With 17 departures, albeit a lot of them dead wood, only 7 new arrivals leaves the squad spread too thin in key areas and I'm not sure we'll find free agents of CBT's quality, assuming we're actively looking for any.
Probably the 1st time I've agreed with you. Have a like
Not sure why my comments on Dobson and Clare I made 12 months ago are being brought up for discussion. Neither were any good at the start of last season, and although they turned their form around incredibly well and are far from being an issue in the current side, that’s not the issue. They proved a lot of people wrong. Good on them! However, one is playing out of position by necessity yet proving to be decent, the other is all about winning it back and the more Garner has time to implement his style, the less I’ll see the him being used. We got a taste of that already against Derby. Give it a few months or another transfer window and I can see it being a way we go forward under Garner. But those two are not an issue and not what the conversation is about. Using a comment and opinion from a year ago to devalue an opinion now is a bit frustrating.
Stockley has offered us nothing this season. He doesn’t possess the leadership skills on the pitch to take us up a level. He doesn’t press but when he does it’s like he’s running through water, he’s constantly moaning at other players, like I’ve said before he doesn’t run in behind, his hold up play is actually poor for a man of his size, he’s not great with the ball at his feet, he’s often behind the play and unless we have patient build up and put the ball in the box, he doesn’t look threatening. I actually believe Davison would have offered us more so far because at least he’s willing to stretch a defence, he works hard, he’s less predictable.
We saw last season Stockley up front on his own is shocking and in a new style and system, I’ve seen nothing this season to change that.
Do you believe that Garner was wrong in keeping Stockley and letting Davison go ?
As you wrote off Clare and Dobson after just a few games I'm not sure that saying Josh Davison would be a better bet to lead our attack agrees with Ben Garner who after working with him in League 2 doesn't feel he's a League 1 player worthy of any position in a front 3.
Football is a game of opinions and it's Ben Garner's Gig and that's why I was intrigued how he would get the best out of Jayden when it would surely be beneficial to have the ball crossed from the flanks from an advanced position so Stockley and another forward can attack the ball in the air.
This is the opposite of hoof ball, it's accurate crossing of the ball so Stockley, Leaburn or if Aneke is ever fit can move on to the ball which makes it easier to see the keeper while keeping your eye on the ball and not looking over your shoulder all the time.
Great example of that was CBT who isn't an inverse winger( another poster said this) as he is two footed and crossed a lovely ball from the bye line for Chuks header when we were chasing the game against Morecambe last season at the valley.
Win games of football by playing to the strengths of your squad. If you want to play mainly on the deck up front then buy/sign players to fit that system. January will be interesting as I can't see us being in the top 8 unless players get fit and mainly stay fit.
Stockley can score goals in this division...we have seen it. However, he needs a striking partner.
Naturally I hoped JS could eventually could learn the role and kick on but he cant. Simple as that.
Washington wouldnt have been the answer in this new system, he suits it better for sure but he aint banging in 20+ a season. People complain about how many chances Bonne missed should also look at Washington.
I try to be positive and whilst I think TS heart is in the right place, he has bitten off more than he can chew. The way deadline day was handled was a circus and we are now really up against it. Im happy with our general dealings in the window but we have been left woefully short and someone needs to be held accountable.. we knew what we needed and we didnt sort it.
BG is a find and feel he could do well even with moderate resources but this certainly has a feel that TS has pulled up the ladder and will try to fly off ASAP.
Not sure why my comments on Dobson and Clare I made 12 months ago are being brought up for discussion. Neither were any good at the start of last season, and although they turned their form around incredibly well and are far from being an issue in the current side, that’s not the issue. They proved a lot of people wrong. Good on them! However, one is playing out of position by necessity yet proving to be decent, the other is all about winning it back and the more Garner has time to implement his style, the less I’ll see the him being used. We got a taste of that already against Derby. Give it a few months or another transfer window and I can see it being a way we go forward under Garner. But those two are not an issue and not what the conversation is about. Using a comment and opinion from a year ago to devalue an opinion now is a bit frustrating.
Stockley has offered us nothing this season. He doesn’t possess the leadership skills on the pitch to take us up a level. He doesn’t press but when he does it’s like he’s running through water, he’s constantly moaning at other players, like I’ve said before he doesn’t run in behind, his hold up play is actually poor for a man of his size, he’s not great with the ball at his feet, he’s often behind the play and unless we have patient build up and put the ball in the box, he doesn’t look threatening. I actually believe Davison would have offered us more so far because at least he’s willing to stretch a defence, he works hard, he’s less predictable.
We saw last season Stockley up front on his own is shocking and in a new style and system, I’ve seen nothing this season to change that.
Do you believe that Garner was wrong in keeping Stockley and letting Davison go ?
As you wrote off Clare and Dobson after just a few games I'm not sure that saying Josh Davison would be a better bet to lead our attack agrees with Ben Garner who after working with him in League 2 doesn't feel he's a League 1 player worthy of any position in a front 3.
Football is a game of opinions and it's Ben Garner's Gig and that's why I was intrigued how he would get the best out of Jayden when it would surely be beneficial to have the ball crossed from the flanks from an advanced position so Stockley and another forward can attack the ball in the air.
This is the opposite of hoof ball, it's accurate crossing of the ball so Stockley, Leaburn or if Aneke is ever fit can move on to the ball which makes it easier to see the keeper while keeping your eye on the ball and not looking over your shoulder all the time.
Great example of that was CBT who isn't an inverse winger( another poster said this) as he is two footed and crossed a lovely ball from the bye line for Chuks header when we were chasing the game against Morecambe last season at the valley.
Win games of football by playing to the strengths of your squad. If you want to play mainly on the deck up front then buy/sign players to fit that system. January will be interesting as I can't see us being in the top 8 unless players get fit and mainly stay fit.
I didn’t right them off last season. They had a poor start and I called it as I saw it. They turned it around in a team that was about fighting and character rather than possession based attacking football. Again, that was 12 months ago in a different side, in different circumstances, with a different manager and style of play. Irrelevant now.
Davison is not good enough either and I agree him moving to League Two is best for everyone. That doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have offered us more so far this season than Stockley, who has offered us nothing. The two are not related. They’re entirely different. The problem is we failed to bring in a striker better than Stockley and that is not Garner’s fault.
Aneke is always going to have this tag and the concern of injuries and I completely understand that. But I do think we have missed him hugely and he would be able to play a central striker and offer us so much more because he can hold up the ball, he can take players on, he can play like a false 9 and let our wide players push on in the space in behind. The problem is the time he spends on the pitch, unfortunately. I just hope he comes back soon and is able to show this ability.
Not sure why my comments on Dobson and Clare I made 12 months ago are being brought up for discussion. Neither were any good at the start of last season, and although they turned their form around incredibly well and are far from being an issue in the current side, that’s not the issue. They proved a lot of people wrong. Good on them! However, one is playing out of position by necessity yet proving to be decent, the other is all about winning it back and the more Garner has time to implement his style, the less I’ll see the him being used. We got a taste of that already against Derby. Give it a few months or another transfer window and I can see it being a way we go forward under Garner. But those two are not an issue and not what the conversation is about. Using a comment and opinion from a year ago to devalue an opinion now is a bit frustrating.
Stockley has offered us nothing this season. He doesn’t possess the leadership skills on the pitch to take us up a level. He doesn’t press but when he does it’s like he’s running through water, he’s constantly moaning at other players, like I’ve said before he doesn’t run in behind, his hold up play is actually poor for a man of his size, he’s not great with the ball at his feet, he’s often behind the play and unless we have patient build up and put the ball in the box, he doesn’t look threatening. I actually believe Davison would have offered us more so far because at least he’s willing to stretch a defence, he works hard, he’s less predictable.
We saw last season Stockley up front on his own is shocking and in a new style and system, I’ve seen nothing this season to change that.
Do you believe that Garner was wrong in keeping Stockley and letting Davison go ?
As you wrote off Clare and Dobson after just a few games I'm not sure that saying Josh Davison would be a better bet to lead our attack agrees with Ben Garner who after working with him in League 2 doesn't feel he's a League 1 player worthy of any position in a front 3.
Football is a game of opinions and it's Ben Garner's Gig and that's why I was intrigued how he would get the best out of Jayden when it would surely be beneficial to have the ball crossed from the flanks from an advanced position so Stockley and another forward can attack the ball in the air.
This is the opposite of hoof ball, it's accurate crossing of the ball so Stockley, Leaburn or if Aneke is ever fit can move on to the ball which makes it easier to see the keeper while keeping your eye on the ball and not looking over your shoulder all the time.
Great example of that was CBT who isn't an inverse winger( another poster said this) as he is two footed and crossed a lovely ball from the bye line for Chuks header when we were chasing the game against Morecambe last season at the valley.
Win games of football by playing to the strengths of your squad. If you want to play mainly on the deck up front then buy/sign players to fit that system. January will be interesting as I can't see us being in the top 8 unless players get fit and mainly stay fit.
I didn’t right them off last season. They had a poor start and I called it as I saw it. They turned it around in a team that was about fighting and character rather than possession based attacking football. Again, that was 12 months ago in a different side, in different circumstances, with a different manager and style of play. Irrelevant now.
Davison is not good enough either and I agree him moving to League Two is best for everyone. That doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have offered us more so far this season than Stockley, who has offered us nothing. The two are not related. They’re entirely different. The problem is we failed to bring in a striker better than Stockley and that is not Garner’s fault.
Aneke is always going to have this tag and the concern of injuries and I completely understand that. But I do think we have missed him hugely and he would be able to play a central striker and offer us so much more because he can hold up the ball, he can take players on, he can play like a false 9 and let our wide players push on in the space in behind. The problem is the time he spends on the pitch, unfortunately. I just hope he comes back soon and is able to show this ability.
Comments
When Jayden won the ball to the right of the area against Plymouth and ran to the bye line and put a perfect across for Kirk to win the Penalty which Stockley put away with aplomb.
I understand the narrative.
Both Sheffield Wednesday and Sunderland wanted Jayden Stockley; not because he's a Donkey but because in the correct formation which appears to be in a two up front he is useful at this level or with good support as Jayden received in the Plymouth home game.
I don't disagree that he's useful in the right style and formation, but we're not playing it, and I don't think he's SO useful in that style that we should be building around him.
You only have to watch someone like Charles or even Leaburn when he's on the pitch to see how limited Jayden is with his feet. You are not going to see him pick it up, turn, buy half a yard and get his shot away. He just doesn't have the ability or mobility.
Okay then.
I get we don’t like Stockley here, and I certainly don’t think he is correct for the system or style of play we should be aiming for. I said as much when I would have liked us to sign Wilkes or McKirdy, as we need a fluid front 3 that can interchange positions.
But he’s far from being a donkey.
What you're describing above requires more strength than technique. I mean, imagine a professional L1 striker who can't bring a bouncing ball down or play a pass out to the wing? Then we're not even describing a footballer.
I feel like we're back to the Matthews/Purrington defenses where we give players disproportionate kudos for doing very simple things. What about everything they don't or can't do.
What if Jayden could take a touch and roll Santos. Or take him on with the ball at his feet, buy half a yard? Or turn, get his head up and pick out a forward pass. Did he once get Santos face-up? Or even on the half-turn? No because he's limited with his feet, so he doesn't play that way.
He was at his best for us when he had a strike partner and Ben Amos could put those lovely angled long goal kicks just where he wanted them and he won a lot in the air. Then we didn't see his limitations so much because we didn't ask him to receive it to his feet.
I’ll then set up another drill where you have to move towards a ball coming towards you, turn and hit a ball to the cone with the outside of your foot instantly.
We can see which one you’re more successful at doing, and if it really requires limited technique to do the first drill.
Stockley has offered us nothing this season. He doesn’t possess the leadership skills on the pitch to take us up a level. He doesn’t press but when he does it’s like he’s running through water, he’s constantly moaning at other players, like I’ve said before he doesn’t run in behind, his hold up play is actually poor for a man of his size, he’s not great with the ball at his feet, he’s often behind the play and unless we have patient build up and put the ball in the box, he doesn’t look threatening. I actually believe Davison would have offered us more so far because at least he’s willing to stretch a defence, he works hard, he’s less predictable.
We saw last season Stockley up front on his own is shocking and in a new style and system, I’ve seen nothing this season to change that.
If only we could of had a transfer window.
Geoffrey Howe's famous cricketing analogy springs to mind, "it's rather like sending your opening batsmen to the crease, only for them to find, the moment the first balls are bowled, that their bats have been broken before the game by the team captain."
With 17 departures, albeit a lot of them dead wood, only 7 new arrivals leaves the squad spread too thin in key areas and I'm not sure we'll find free agents of CBT's quality, assuming we're actively looking for any.
I think we may have stumbled on a decent manager but he is, as many have noticed, being asked to fit square pegs in round holes and is massively exposed to minor injuries in defence and attack.
It isn't as if Sandgaard has been tight with his money from the off. He has suprised me with some of the expensive mistakes he has made and that is a big part that shows his incompetence in terms of football. But if he can't do it with money, how the hell is he going to do it without?
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Do you believe that Garner was wrong in keeping Stockley and letting Davison go ?
As you wrote off Clare and Dobson after just a few games I'm not sure that saying Josh Davison would be a better bet to lead our attack agrees with Ben Garner who after working with him in League 2 doesn't feel he's a League 1 player worthy of any position in a front 3.
Football is a game of opinions and it's Ben Garner's Gig and that's why I was intrigued how he would get the best out of Jayden when it would surely be beneficial to have the ball crossed from the flanks from an advanced position so Stockley and another forward can attack the ball in the air.
This is the opposite of hoof ball, it's accurate crossing of the ball so Stockley, Leaburn or if Aneke is ever fit can move on to the ball which makes it easier to see the keeper while keeping your eye on the ball and not looking over your shoulder all the time.
Great example of that was CBT who isn't an inverse winger( another poster said this) as he is two footed and crossed a lovely ball from the bye line for Chuks header when we were chasing the game against Morecambe last season at the valley.
Win games of football by playing to the strengths of your squad. If you want to play mainly on the deck up front then buy/sign players to fit that system. January will be interesting as I can't see us being in the top 8 unless players get fit and mainly stay fit.
Naturally I hoped JS could eventually could learn the role and kick on but he cant. Simple as that.
Washington wouldnt have been the answer in this new system, he suits it better for sure but he aint banging in 20+ a season. People complain about how many chances Bonne missed should also look at Washington.
I try to be positive and whilst I think TS heart is in the right place, he has bitten off more than he can chew. The way deadline day was handled was a circus and we are now really up against it. Im happy with our general dealings in the window but we have been left woefully short and someone needs to be held accountable.. we knew what we needed and we didnt sort it.
BG is a find and feel he could do well even with moderate resources but this certainly has a feel that TS has pulled up the ladder and will try to fly off ASAP.
Davison is not good enough either and I agree him moving to League Two is best for everyone. That doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have offered us more so far this season than Stockley, who has offered us nothing. The two are not related. They’re entirely different. The problem is we failed to bring in a striker better than Stockley and that is not Garner’s fault.
Aneke is always going to have this tag and the concern of injuries and I completely understand that. But I do think we have missed him hugely and he would be able to play a central striker and offer us so much more because he can hold up the ball, he can take players on, he can play like a false 9 and let our wide players push on in the space in behind. The problem is the time he spends on the pitch, unfortunately. I just hope he comes back soon and is able to show this ability.