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Energy Bills
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Truss reckons she has headroom of £20 billion - if so it all needs to be used to mitigate fuel poverty this winter.
There are 28 million households in the UK - at a guess perhaps 8 million of those don't require help which leaves £1000 for the other 20 million. That together with the help already announced would go a long way to get people through the winter. It needs to be targeted help to those most vulnerable and it can't be beyond the wit of man to work out how that targeting can be achieved. The payment would be straight off the fuel bill.
An alternative would be to scrap the October and January price cap rises and cover it for the operating Companies with a combination of windfall taxes on the gas and oil producers and Government funding - but again help must be targeted.
One would hope the situation with fuel prices will begin to ease into next year, but if not we rinse and repeat.1 -
Some might say many more lives could be saved by diverting £20 billion to the NHS and ensuring that at least people with cancer get treated promptly.bobmunro said:Truss reckons she has headroom of £20 billion - if so it all needs to be used to mitigate fuel poverty this winter.
There are 28 million households in the UK - at a guess perhaps 8 million of those don't require help which leaves £1000 for the other 20 million. That together with the help already announced would go a long way to get people through the winter. It needs to be targeted help to those most vulnerable and it can't be beyond the wit of man to work out how that targeting can be achieved. The payment would be straight off the fuel bill.
An alternative would be to scrap the October and January price cap rises and cover it for the operating Companies with a combination of windfall taxes on the gas and oil producers and Government funding - but again help must be targeted.
One would hope the situation with fuel prices will begin to ease into next year, but if not we rinse and repeat.
Really difficult to decide what to do with all the spare cash the government has!0 -
Completely agree with this and I would personally be more in favour of the second option as I think the money will go further and I wouldn’t be full of confidence in how they would determine who is in need in the first method.bobmunro said:Truss reckons she has headroom of £20 billion - if so it all needs to be used to mitigate fuel poverty this winter.
There are 28 million households in the UK - at a guess perhaps 8 million of those don't require help which leaves £1000 for the other 20 million. That together with the help already announced would go a long way to get people through the winter. It needs to be targeted help to those most vulnerable and it can't be beyond the wit of man to work out how that targeting can be achieved. The payment would be straight off the fuel bill.
An alternative would be to scrap the October and January price cap rises and cover it for the operating Companies with a combination of windfall taxes on the gas and oil producers and Government funding - but again help must be targeted.
One would hope the situation with fuel prices will begin to ease into next year, but if not we rinse and repeat.0 -
EDF suing the French government for £7b after Macron forced them to sell energy at a loss. There’s your war.ShootersHillGuru said:
Do you mean like the war currently raging in France when EDF was nationalised?Stu_of_Kunming said:
How much would the prices change if BP and Shell keep their prices the same?Bournemouth Addick said:
Is this a bad thing necessarily? If their business is unsustainable without causing massive, unprecedented harm to millions of households and businesses across the UK then maybe they ought not to be in business.bobmunro said:
That won't necessarily help. The price rises are linked to the global wholesale prices and it is the likes of BP and Shell (the exploration companies) that are making the big profits. The operating companies like Scottish Power (my provider) are passing on the costs they are incurring. BP and Shell can sell into the global market at the prevailing price.blackpool72 said:Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch.
A major vote winner in my opinion.
Apologies for getting political.
If the Government want to stop the price cap going up then they are going to have to subsidise the operating companies (and that's not an unreasonable thing to do) otherwise they will all go pop.
I'm playing devil's advocate a little but what's to stop the government soaking up those businesses that fail as the buyer of last resort and starting the process of returning our nationally important utilities into public ownership?They won’t just drop their prices because the UK gov are in charge, so the new publicly owned companies would still trade at a loss and require subsidisation.Nationalisation Shell and BP, could, quite rightly start a war.0 -
So no war then? Got it.stop_shouting said:
EDF suing the French government for £7b after Macron forced them to sell energy at a loss. There’s your war.ShootersHillGuru said:
Do you mean like the war currently raging in France when EDF was nationalised?Stu_of_Kunming said:
How much would the prices change if BP and Shell keep their prices the same?Bournemouth Addick said:
Is this a bad thing necessarily? If their business is unsustainable without causing massive, unprecedented harm to millions of households and businesses across the UK then maybe they ought not to be in business.bobmunro said:
That won't necessarily help. The price rises are linked to the global wholesale prices and it is the likes of BP and Shell (the exploration companies) that are making the big profits. The operating companies like Scottish Power (my provider) are passing on the costs they are incurring. BP and Shell can sell into the global market at the prevailing price.blackpool72 said:Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch.
A major vote winner in my opinion.
Apologies for getting political.
If the Government want to stop the price cap going up then they are going to have to subsidise the operating companies (and that's not an unreasonable thing to do) otherwise they will all go pop.
I'm playing devil's advocate a little but what's to stop the government soaking up those businesses that fail as the buyer of last resort and starting the process of returning our nationally important utilities into public ownership?They won’t just drop their prices because the UK gov are in charge, so the new publicly owned companies would still trade at a loss and require subsidisation.Nationalisation Shell and BP, could, quite rightly start a war.2 -
Not my definition but hey hostop_shouting said:
EDF suing the French government for £7b after Macron forced them to sell energy at a loss. There’s your war.ShootersHillGuru said:
Do you mean like the war currently raging in France when EDF was nationalised?Stu_of_Kunming said:
How much would the prices change if BP and Shell keep their prices the same?Bournemouth Addick said:
Is this a bad thing necessarily? If their business is unsustainable without causing massive, unprecedented harm to millions of households and businesses across the UK then maybe they ought not to be in business.bobmunro said:
That won't necessarily help. The price rises are linked to the global wholesale prices and it is the likes of BP and Shell (the exploration companies) that are making the big profits. The operating companies like Scottish Power (my provider) are passing on the costs they are incurring. BP and Shell can sell into the global market at the prevailing price.blackpool72 said:Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch.
A major vote winner in my opinion.
Apologies for getting political.
If the Government want to stop the price cap going up then they are going to have to subsidise the operating companies (and that's not an unreasonable thing to do) otherwise they will all go pop.
I'm playing devil's advocate a little but what's to stop the government soaking up those businesses that fail as the buyer of last resort and starting the process of returning our nationally important utilities into public ownership?They won’t just drop their prices because the UK gov are in charge, so the new publicly owned companies would still trade at a loss and require subsidisation.Nationalisation Shell and BP, could, quite rightly start a war.0 -
I've heard that the lawyers EDF are using are renowned for their keyboard warrior skills.ShootersHillGuru said:
Not my definition but hey hostop_shouting said:
EDF suing the French government for £7b after Macron forced them to sell energy at a loss. There’s your war.ShootersHillGuru said:
Do you mean like the war currently raging in France when EDF was nationalised?Stu_of_Kunming said:
How much would the prices change if BP and Shell keep their prices the same?Bournemouth Addick said:
Is this a bad thing necessarily? If their business is unsustainable without causing massive, unprecedented harm to millions of households and businesses across the UK then maybe they ought not to be in business.bobmunro said:
That won't necessarily help. The price rises are linked to the global wholesale prices and it is the likes of BP and Shell (the exploration companies) that are making the big profits. The operating companies like Scottish Power (my provider) are passing on the costs they are incurring. BP and Shell can sell into the global market at the prevailing price.blackpool72 said:Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch.
A major vote winner in my opinion.
Apologies for getting political.
If the Government want to stop the price cap going up then they are going to have to subsidise the operating companies (and that's not an unreasonable thing to do) otherwise they will all go pop.
I'm playing devil's advocate a little but what's to stop the government soaking up those businesses that fail as the buyer of last resort and starting the process of returning our nationally important utilities into public ownership?They won’t just drop their prices because the UK gov are in charge, so the new publicly owned companies would still trade at a loss and require subsidisation.Nationalisation Shell and BP, could, quite rightly start a war.
Could get very nasty.3 -
Also zero similarities between BP and EDF, a ridiculous comparison.SELR_addicks said:
So no war then? Got it.stop_shouting said:
EDF suing the French government for £7b after Macron forced them to sell energy at a loss. There’s your war.ShootersHillGuru said:
Do you mean like the war currently raging in France when EDF was nationalised?Stu_of_Kunming said:
How much would the prices change if BP and Shell keep their prices the same?Bournemouth Addick said:
Is this a bad thing necessarily? If their business is unsustainable without causing massive, unprecedented harm to millions of households and businesses across the UK then maybe they ought not to be in business.bobmunro said:
That won't necessarily help. The price rises are linked to the global wholesale prices and it is the likes of BP and Shell (the exploration companies) that are making the big profits. The operating companies like Scottish Power (my provider) are passing on the costs they are incurring. BP and Shell can sell into the global market at the prevailing price.blackpool72 said:Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch.
A major vote winner in my opinion.
Apologies for getting political.
If the Government want to stop the price cap going up then they are going to have to subsidise the operating companies (and that's not an unreasonable thing to do) otherwise they will all go pop.
I'm playing devil's advocate a little but what's to stop the government soaking up those businesses that fail as the buyer of last resort and starting the process of returning our nationally important utilities into public ownership?They won’t just drop their prices because the UK gov are in charge, so the new publicly owned companies would still trade at a loss and require subsidisation.Nationalisation Shell and BP, could, quite rightly start a war.1 -
BP and Shell are off the table for nationalisation, suspect the utility retailers will end up like RBS and be state majority owned by the end of the winter.0
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I fear that process will be too slow, they need to start now and give help in the meantime.Rothko said:BP and Shell are off the table for nationalisation, suspect the utility retailers will end up like RBS and be state majority owned by the end of the winter.0 -
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With the real potential of there being 'fuel' shortages this winter/January, maybe the government are foreseeing that and hoping people use less (because they can't afford to)...........0
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I think the standing charges are a nonsense. Roll that cost into unit fuel prices and do away with standing charges altogether. This would increase the incentive to use less energy and help those who do.3
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Solid idea, but they should have done that years ago. It's too late now to help this fuel price crisis.Showmetheway2gohome said:Instead of giving handouts to help pay our bills why don’t the government do what they’ve failed to do and invest in green energy for the future which they’ve insisted on.By putting solar panels on every house in the country. We then have a nationalised green energy company.
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That’s not going to solve the impending winter 22/23 financial catastrophe awaiting millions of homes but you are right in as much as the government should be massively subsidising green energy initiatives for every household including insulation, replacement windows and doors, solar and heat pump. Would create hundreds of thousand of jobs in manufacturing and installing and would go some way in making the housing stock more energy efficient.Showmetheway2gohome said:Instead of giving handouts to help pay our bills why don’t the government do what they’ve failed to do and invest in green energy for the future which they’ve insisted on.By putting solar panels on every house in the country. We then have a nationalised green energy company.0 -
Yes! It's been largely missing from this debate - indeed, the only proposal from either candidate is by Truss for removal of the green levy which will reduce investment in renewables. It's worth remembering that about 50% of our electricity is generated from gas and that is why the price is so high. The more we can shift the mix towards renewables, the cheaper the cost will be and we will be less reliant on gas supplies.Showmetheway2gohome said:Instead of giving handouts to help pay our bills why don’t the government do what they’ve failed to do and invest in green energy for the future which they’ve insisted on.By putting solar panels on every house in the country. We then have a nationalised green energy company.
I don't know about putting solar panels on every house but certainly they should be made as attractive as possible for householders and commercial buildings to instal on buildings with the right roofs and which face the same way, including cheap loans/subsidies etc as well as getting as many people trained up for installation as possible. There should also be a removal on the ban on onshore wind turbines.
This won't help for this winter but could make a real difference for the next one.
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Completely agree and a start in that would be paying a fair price for the energy you produce. The amount I get for the electricity my solar panels generate hasn’t gone up in price when every other energy source has. I have no option as to who to sell it to either so not a free market.Jints said:
Yes! It's been largely missing from this debate - indeed, the only proposal from either candidate is by Truss for removal of the green levy which will reduce investment in renewables. It's worth remembering that about 50% of our electricity is generated from gas and that is why the price is so high. The more we can shift the mix towards renewables, the cheaper the cost will be and we will be less reliant on gas supplies.Showmetheway2gohome said:Instead of giving handouts to help pay our bills why don’t the government do what they’ve failed to do and invest in green energy for the future which they’ve insisted on.By putting solar panels on every house in the country. We then have a nationalised green energy company.
I don't know about putting solar panels on every house but certainly they should be made as attractive as possible for householders and commercial buildings to instal on buildings with the right roofs and which face the same way, including cheap loans/subsidies etc as well as getting as many people trained up for installation as possible. There should also be a removal on the ban on onshore wind turbines.
This won't help for this winter but could make a real difference for the next one.
If you have savings now you are losing money with interest rates being far lower than inflation. The government could do a lot more to incentify people to spend money on energy generation and efficiency. Even just a pay back on investment higher than banks offer would tip it for many people. It won’t help right now, but down the line having less dependence on buying energy from abroad certainly will.0 -
How’s that going to help now? Don’t worry people, we’re on it, just got to starve yourself for 2 years first.Showmetheway2gohome said:Instead of giving handouts to help pay our bills why don’t the government do what they’ve failed to do and invest in green energy for the future which they’ve insisted on.By putting solar panels on every house in the country. We then have a nationalised green energy company.2 -
Oi, come up with your own ideas.Showmetheway2gohome said:Instead of giving handouts to help pay our bills why don’t the government do what they’ve failed to do and invest in green energy for the future which they’ve insisted on.By putting solar panels on every house in the country. We then have a nationalised green energy company.
cantersaddick said:Put this on the other thread. Should have been done decades ago but even 10 years ago there were signs from Russia and the move towards renewables. This should have been an obvious solution.
I'm all for competition in the energy market (water is different in my view) what the government should be doing (and should have started 10 years ago) is setting up an energy firm to compete with the market. It should focus on new green and nuclear infrastructure and aim to grew to become a major supplier. This would at least give people an alternative option and would force existing companies out of their Oligopoly power and to sacrifice a small percentage of excess profits to restrict price increases.
The government can compete successfully in markets - see NEST in pensions market.
There should also be massive subsidies or even provision of domestic renewables. Every industrial unit with a large roof should have solar panels, domestic solar panels should be everywhere
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Rob7Lee said:
Thats bonkers and no way correct. Even if I still had my old 1960's boiler which in Dec 21/Jan 22 was costing around £250 a month during the coldest spell wouldn't get to that (5 bed house).Athletico Charlton said:Just looked at my Octopus energy app which now has a crystal ball setting which says what your monthly payments will be based on current analyst thinking. According to that my dual bill goes from c £200pcm in August to £1200pcm in Jan! In a relatively small 1930s suburbia house that is quite the jump!
I'd certainly be looking though at the equipment you have. I spent 8k ish on all new plumbing, boiler etc, but reckon I'm saving on average £800-£1k a year on current prices, maybe more, probably double that next year!
Radiators also, Ali one's are far far better but pricey for decent one's.
I cant believe it is correct. 4 bed semi in suburbia. Rads/Boiler 10yrs old. New windows. Decent insulation for what it is. Reckon my neighbour must be wiring through to our house (or maybe the whole street!). Or Octopus Energy were trying to scare me into saving up now!0 -
We should have massive Govt investment in becoming fuel sufficient through a mix of ways but ultimately as an island we must have a huge natural advantage of we can harness wave and wind power. There will be huge wind farms built off the coast on the North Sea where wind rages in coming years which will generate tons... But then you have all the increasing needs from electric cars and every other appliance.1
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You do realise that what you’re proposing will take years and years to get off the ground and will be of no help whatsoever this coming winter. That’s not to say you’re wrong but you’re talking about something completely different to what’s required in the coming months.Showmetheway2gohome said:I was getting at the government or governments have failed to do it over the past years.debates on what sort of power should we have nuclear should we shit down old coal power stations should we have fracking.They’ve done nothing but put up windmills and now this is where we’re at.If you want something instant Cafcfsn1990 I suggest maybe you move into a shell 24 hour garage and eat their food if your that starving1 -
You were talking present sense, “instead of giving handouts”. What they should have done in the past simply doesn’t help now. Of course that doesn’t mean things shouldn’t be done to improve things in the future, but that’s in addition, not instead of, “handouts now” to help people survive.Showmetheway2gohome said:I was getting at the government or governments have failed to do it over the past years.debates on what sort of power should we have nuclear should we shit down old coal power stations should we have fracking.They’ve done nothing but put up windmills and now this is where we’re at.If you want something instant Cafcfsn1990 I suggest maybe you move into a shell 24 hour garage and eat their food if your that starving0 -
Is the energy cap there for the consumer or supplier if it’s for the consumer then surely the cap should be going down so people can afford to pay there bills0
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It was for consumers, from recent announcements it’s about protecting the firms left and stopping them going out of businessValianterith said:Is the energy cap there for the consumer or supplier if it’s for the consumer then surely the cap should be going down so people can afford to pay there bills0 -
We probably need something in the middle, of the French model of starving the energy supplier and our model of protecting the energy supplier (reluctant to say starving the consumer).Rothko said:
It was for consumers, from recent announcements it’s about protecting the firms left and stopping them going out of businessValianterith said:Is the energy cap there for the consumer or supplier if it’s for the consumer then surely the cap should be going down so people can afford to pay there bills
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Quite possible, plus if the government say don't worry everyone we'll bail you out, a lot of people won't be saving up (if they could) for when the cost goes up again.Rob7Lee said:With the real potential of there being 'fuel' shortages this winter/January, maybe the government are foreseeing that and hoping people use less (because they can't afford to)...........
Not that I agree with that possible strategy.0 -
Energy boss on this morning's 'Wake Up To Money' says appreciable money can be saved by simply adjusting your boiler flow temperature. Good explanation here.
https://www.theheatinghub.co.uk/articles/turn-down-the-boiler-flow-temperature
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I think there will be millions of households that can’t better budget than they already are. They need to know pdq what they can expect by way of help. Sitting here in the summer it’s actually quite difficult to imagine what a cold house feels like. People not turning on the heating is frankly not acceptable.Covered End said:
Quite possible, plus if the government say don't worry everyone we'll bail you out, a lot of people won't be saving up (if they could) for when the cost goes up again.Rob7Lee said:With the real potential of there being 'fuel' shortages this winter/January, maybe the government are foreseeing that and hoping people use less (because they can't afford to)...........
Not that I agree with that possible strategy.0 -
Thanks for sharing. We need to hear more grown up stuff like this rather than people banging on about civil unrest.Raith_C_Chattonell said:Energy boss on this morning's 'Wake Up To Money' says appreciable money can be saved by simply adjusting your boiler flow temperature. Good explanation here.
https://www.theheatinghub.co.uk/articles/turn-down-the-boiler-flow-temperature2 -
It doesn't help everyone, I live in a rented house with a boiler that is about 30 years old.stop_shouting said:
Thanks for sharing. We need to hear more grown up stuff like this rather than people banging on about civil unrest.Raith_C_Chattonell said:Energy boss on this morning's 'Wake Up To Money' says appreciable money can be saved by simply adjusting your boiler flow temperature. Good explanation here.
https://www.theheatinghub.co.uk/articles/turn-down-the-boiler-flow-temperature
Fortunately our price is fixed until June 2023 so we won't feel the full impact until next year, but there are millions who live in properties with old heating systems and don't have the funds to pay these unbelievable increases.
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