Energy Bills

ForeverAddickted

Showmetheway2gohome said:

Martin Lewis saying lot of people are thinking of boycotting paying there bill.

https://dontpay.uk/

Ross

Showmetheway2gohome said:

Martin Lewis saying lot of people are thinking of boycotting paying there bill.

And a lot of people won't be able to pay their bill.

ShootersHillGuru

MrWalker said:

As I say, someone's got to pay the bill 

With for example Shell Energy reporting £10 billion profits in the first quarter perhaps “the bill” should be a little less unequally divided. 

SantaClaus

Showmetheway2gohome said:

Martin Lewis saying lot of people are thinking of boycotting paying there bill.

I think a critical mass of people will also stop paying their rents and mortgages this winter too. The resulting effects on the rest of the economy will an eye opener.

ShootersHillGuru

It’s a bizarre scenario I’m finding myself in. I have smart meters for both gas and electricity. I’m still 13 months away from my fixed price deal ending. Yesterday Shell e mailed me to say that based on my consumption and projection for next 13 months, my direct debit was reducing from £167 per month to £141 per month. All good. What I’d really prefer to do is continue paying £167 for the remainder of the contract and build up some credit which might take some of the sting out of what’s going to hit me in 13 months. Apparently that’s not doable. 

Lincsaddick

ShootersHillGuru said:

It’s a bizarre scenario I’m finding myself in. I have smart meters for both gas and electricity. I’m still 13 months away from my fixed price deal ending. Yesterday Shell e mailed me to say that based on my consumption and projection for next 13 months, my direct debit was reducing from £167 per month to £141 per month. All good. What I’d really prefer to do is continue paying £167 for the remainder of the contract and build up some credit which might take some of the sting out of what’s going to hit me in 13 months. Apparently that’s not doable. 

I believe a recent law/directive instructed power providers to refund any surplus cash after a bill was calculated .. I got a welcome £75 ish repayment last month, some consolation for the vastly increased monthly payment, even though I'm on a good deal with Edf until October 2024 .. good that is compared to being subject to the fluctuating tariffs 

kentaddick

can some one explain to me why prices are going up, when large companies are making record profits? Surely the opposite would be true - their profits would be going down, forcing them to raise the price? What's going on? Some one explain like i'm 5.

ForeverAddickted

kentaddick said:

can some one explain to me why prices are going up, when large companies are making record profits? Surely the opposite would be true - their profits would be going down, forcing them to raise the price? What's going on? Some one explain like i'm 5.

Rich bastards have found an excuse to get richer

Big_Bad_World

kentaddick said:

can some one explain to me why prices are going up, when large companies are making record profits? Surely the opposite would be true - their profits would be going down, forcing them to raise the price? What's going on? Some one explain like i'm 5.

I skimmed over an article earlier that said they aren't making huge profits from wholesale energy/gas prices and are, in fact, seeing huge profits from exploratory work (or somesuch). Can I find the article now? Nope.

Gary Poole

kentaddick said:

can some one explain to me why prices are going up, when large companies are making record profits? Surely the opposite would be true - their profits would be going down, forcing them to raise the price? What's going on? Some one explain like i'm 5.

Increase in demand for gas from Asia was already set to have an impact on prices this year. Then restriction to supply of gas as a consequence of Russia invasion of Ukraine this year.

Both of these factors alone are liable to cause price rises, combined they create big price rises.

Added to that if the value of the pound falls the cost of anything we import goes up.

ShootersHillGuru

£4,200 is what’s now being predicted as the average household energy bill in January. Just hold on to that figure for a moment. That’s £80 per week and £350 per month averaged over 12 months. Quite how the government expect people to cope with this is beyond my understanding. The projected figure of £4,200 is £650 more than the projection made by the same consultancy Cornwall Insight just last week. I totally agree that action needs to be taken right now but the government is completely absent. 

LargeAddick

ShootersHillGuru said:

It’s a bizarre scenario I’m finding myself in. I have smart meters for both gas and electricity. I’m still 13 months away from my fixed price deal ending. Yesterday Shell e mailed me to say that based on my consumption and projection for next 13 months, my direct debit was reducing from £167 per month to £141 per month. All good. What I’d really prefer to do is continue paying £167 for the remainder of the contract and build up some credit which might take some of the sting out of what’s going to hit me in 13 months. Apparently that’s not doable. 

Can’t you just make a one off payment to your account?

ShootersHillGuru

LargeAddick said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

It’s a bizarre scenario I’m finding myself in. I have smart meters for both gas and electricity. I’m still 13 months away from my fixed price deal ending. Yesterday Shell e mailed me to say that based on my consumption and projection for next 13 months, my direct debit was reducing from £167 per month to £141 per month. All good. What I’d really prefer to do is continue paying £167 for the remainder of the contract and build up some credit which might take some of the sting out of what’s going to hit me in 13 months. Apparently that’s not doable. 

Can’t you just make a one off payment to your account?

When I phoned Shell they said that I couldn’t pay in excess of my projected useage based on my smart meter readings. I’m now paying £50 a month into a separate account and will let that build up and make a payment once my fixed rate deal ends in 12 and half months time.

jacob_CAFC

the first question any journalist should be asking our future PM is "do you understand the scale of this crisis" 

ads

ShootersHillGuru said:

LargeAddick said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

It’s a bizarre scenario I’m finding myself in. I have smart meters for both gas and electricity. I’m still 13 months away from my fixed price deal ending. Yesterday Shell e mailed me to say that based on my consumption and projection for next 13 months, my direct debit was reducing from £167 per month to £141 per month. All good. What I’d really prefer to do is continue paying £167 for the remainder of the contract and build up some credit which might take some of the sting out of what’s going to hit me in 13 months. Apparently that’s not doable. 

Can’t you just make a one off payment to your account?

When I phoned Shell they said that I couldn’t pay in excess of my projected useage based on my smart meter readings. I’m now paying £50 a month into a separate account and will let that build up and make a payment once my fixed rate deal ends in 12 and half months time.

When I phoned Shell I asked them why they are capitalising on a war and bragging about record profits while people are struggling.  He palmed it off with the usual bullshit about different arms of the business.  wankers

iainambler

jacob_CAFC said:

the first question any journalist should be asking our future PM is "do you understand the scale of this crisis" 

Based on their response as part of the leadership contest,  I think it's fair to say that neither of them has a flipping clue.

Martin Lewis, the Money Saving Expert, is railing at both Truss and Sunak (and the present [or should I say, absent?] PM and Chancellor) to wake up and get a grip now.  Telling that Gordon Brown weighed in yesterday and was pointing out that if you want to help people later in the year when the main rates rises kick in, you have to put the systems in place now.

His website states that the energy cap between 1 October 2021 to 31 March 2022 was £1,277.
Comparing that with the (albeit weak) prediction for 1 April 2023 to 30 June 2023 of £4,427 is  shocker - a difference over 2 years of £3,150.

These are average figures mind - so some folk will be less or more than that amount.  However, that equates to an average of £106 per month against £369 - which I won't mind betting the majority of folk will struggle to afford.  Add to that mortgages increasing (and it's not inconceivable that interest rates will be another percent higher by April next year) as well as food bills and petrol rocketing, it's going to be beyond difficult, nigh impossible for people working flipping hard.  

How these politicians haven't clocked that a large proportion of the electorate is going to struggle (including those on relatively decent household incomes) is beyond me. 
Either that or they genuinely don't give a toss - and I'll leave you to your own conclusions on that last...

IdleHans

I plan to use more wood and less central heating this winter, so I've just ordered a cubic metre of logs for the winter, earlier than I normally would. The price hasnt changed that much since December from the same supplier, up from £95 to £100, which was pretty typical last time. Other suppliers locally are now charging up to £145 per m3, and I'm sure that will keep going up as autumn approaches.

blackpool72

Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch.
A major vote winner in my opinion. 

Apologies for getting political. 

bobmunro

IdleHans said:

I plan to use more wood and less central heating this winter, so I've just ordered a cubic metre of logs for the winter, earlier than I normally would. The price hasnt changed that much since December from the same supplier, up from £95 to £100, which was pretty typical last time. Other suppliers locally are now charging up to £145 per m3, and I'm sure that will keep going up as autumn approaches.

Just about to order our logs in - better get a move on! 

RaplhMilne

LONDON (Reuters) - Major energy traders are taking hundreds of millions of dollars in losses as they scramble to plug a liquefied natural gas (LNG) supply gap after several outages hampered efforts to fill European storage ahead of the winter heating season.

Unplanned disruptions at LNG plants in the United States, Nigeria and Australia have wrong-footed traders, including BP and Shell, forcing them to pay inflated costs for alternative supplies.

BP took a more than $500 million hit to replace LNG cargoes lost after a sudden shutdown of the Freeport LNG plant in Texas in June, industry sources told Reuters.

Both BP and Shell have taken enormous hits from pulling out of Russia due to the war. When COVID kicked off and petrol was 99p, and no one wanted oil, they suffered enormous losses and crash in share price. Shell falling from £23 down to £9. 

This is business good times and bad times. Did the Government let them stop paying tax in the hard times, did they give them public money…. NO

But, now the fact that they are paying 65% tax (including windfall) isn’t enough for some people.  The £400 you are going to get plus whatever else they do, is already being paid for…. By the business, not the state. 

se9addick

blackpool72 said:

Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch.
A major vote winner in my opinion. 

Apologies for getting political. 

Which gas and electricity companies are you referring to? 

bobmunro

blackpool72 said:

Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch.
A major vote winner in my opinion. 

Apologies for getting political. 

That won't necessarily help. The price rises are linked to the global wholesale prices and it is the likes of BP and Shell (the exploration companies) that are making the big profits. The operating companies like Scottish Power (my provider) are passing on the costs they are incurring. BP and Shell can sell into the global market at the prevailing price. 

If the Government want to stop the price cap going up then they are going to have to subsidise the operating companies (and that's not an unreasonable thing to do) otherwise they will all go pop.  

jacob_CAFC

bobmunro said:

blackpool72 said:

Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch.
A major vote winner in my opinion. 

Apologies for getting political. 

That won't necessarily help. The price rises are linked to the global wholesale prices and it is the likes of BP and Shell (the exploration companies) that are making the big profits. The operating companies like Scottish Power (my provider) are passing on the costs they are incurring. BP and Shell can sell into the global market at the prevailing price. 

If the Government want to stop the price cap going up then they are going to have to subsidise the operating companies (and that's not an unreasonable thing to do) otherwise they will all go pop.  

Why would the Govt want to subsidise the massive profits that these companies are making? Wouldn't it be easier and more cost effective to take it in house where profits are not the main goal?

Bournemouth Addick

bobmunro said:

blackpool72 said:

Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch.
A major vote winner in my opinion. 

Apologies for getting political. 

That won't necessarily help. The price rises are linked to the global wholesale prices and it is the likes of BP and Shell (the exploration companies) that are making the big profits. The operating companies like Scottish Power (my provider) are passing on the costs they are incurring. BP and Shell can sell into the global market at the prevailing price. 

If the Government want to stop the price cap going up then they are going to have to subsidise the operating companies (and that's not an unreasonable thing to do) otherwise they will all go pop.  

Is this a bad thing necessarily? If their business is unsustainable without causing massive, unprecedented harm to millions of households and businesses across the UK then maybe they ought not to be in business.

I'm playing devil's advocate a little but what's to stop the government soaking up those businesses that fail as the buyer of last resort and starting the process of returning our nationally important utilities into public ownership?

Leroy Ambrose

ME14addick said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

I think a big problem was that there were too many operators. Let's be honest, when you change from one provider to another, the gas/electricity comes from the same place. We are paying for discounted prices from companies that have gone bust. This is an industry that needs to be run by one provider for the public and the environment not many providers for the shareholders. Call me a marxist

All the utilities should have remained nationalised and run by the state. We now have private companies making huge profits whilst ordinary people suffer. I used to think that privatisation was a good thing, but it's clear now that privatising the utilities has been very bad for the average person.

Again - I'm stunned that you ever voted Tory

SELR_addicks

RaplhMilne said:

LONDON (Reuters) - Major energy traders are taking hundreds of millions of dollars in losses as they scramble to plug a liquefied natural gas (LNG) supply gap after several outages hampered efforts to fill European storage ahead of the winter heating season.

Unplanned disruptions at LNG plants in the United States, Nigeria and Australia have wrong-footed traders, including BP and Shell, forcing them to pay inflated costs for alternative supplies.

BP took a more than $500 million hit to replace LNG cargoes lost after a sudden shutdown of the Freeport LNG plant in Texas in June, industry sources told Reuters.

Both BP and Shell have taken enormous hits from pulling out of Russia due to the war. When COVID kicked off and petrol was 99p, and no one wanted oil, they suffered enormous losses and crash in share price. Shell falling from £23 down to £9. 

This is business good times and bad times. Did the Government let them stop paying tax in the hard times, did they give them public money…. NO

But, now the fact that they are paying 65% tax (including windfall) isn’t enough for some people.  The £400 you are going to get plus whatever else they do, is already being paid for…. By the business, not the state. 

BP will hand billions of pounds to shareholders after tripling its profits to nearly £7bn in the second quarter of the year amid high oil prices during Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, sparking anger from MPs and campaigners as families struggle in the cost of living crisis.

The FTSE 100 oil company on Tuesday said its preferred measure of profit, which it describes as its underlying replacement cost profit, rose to $8.5bn (£6.9bn) between April and June. That is up from $6.2bn in the first three months of the year, and three times BP’s underlying profits of $2.8bn in the second quarter of 2021.

It was the second highest quarterly profit in BP’s history, behind only its $8.8bn underlying profit in the summer of 2008.

Profitting from people suffering ain't alright in my book. 

bobmunro

Bournemouth Addick said:

bobmunro said:

blackpool72 said:

Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch.
A major vote winner in my opinion. 

Apologies for getting political. 

That won't necessarily help. The price rises are linked to the global wholesale prices and it is the likes of BP and Shell (the exploration companies) that are making the big profits. The operating companies like Scottish Power (my provider) are passing on the costs they are incurring. BP and Shell can sell into the global market at the prevailing price. 

If the Government want to stop the price cap going up then they are going to have to subsidise the operating companies (and that's not an unreasonable thing to do) otherwise they will all go pop.  

Is this a bad thing necessarily? If their business is unsustainable without causing massive, unprecedented harm to millions of households and businesses across the UK then maybe they ought not to be in business.

I'm playing devil's advocate a little but what's to stop the government soaking up those businesses that fail as the buyer of last resort and starting the process of returning our nationally important utilities into public ownership?

The issue is in the raw material side, not the end of the supply chain. If British Gas have to pay 3x per therm then selling it for 2x is not doable unless the government top it up. There is very little the government can do with the likes of BP or Shell where their profits are derived from selling into the ever increasing global wholesale markets. 

I hasten to add that I was never in favour of privatisation and believe that all utilities should be state owned. 

bobmunro

Bournemouth Addick said:

bobmunro said:

blackpool72 said:

Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch.
A major vote winner in my opinion. 

Apologies for getting political. 

That won't necessarily help. The price rises are linked to the global wholesale prices and it is the likes of BP and Shell (the exploration companies) that are making the big profits. The operating companies like Scottish Power (my provider) are passing on the costs they are incurring. BP and Shell can sell into the global market at the prevailing price. 

If the Government want to stop the price cap going up then they are going to have to subsidise the operating companies (and that's not an unreasonable thing to do) otherwise they will all go pop.  

Is this a bad thing necessarily? If their business is unsustainable without causing massive, unprecedented harm to millions of households and businesses across the UK then maybe they ought not to be in business.

I'm playing devil's advocate a little but what's to stop the government soaking up those businesses that fail as the buyer of last resort and starting the process of returning our nationally important utilities into public ownership?

I don't disagree and it is a way of sweeping back into state ownership the distribution side - the Government as owners of the distributors would still have to pay the market rate for the raw material.

Leroy Ambrose

Showmetheway2gohome said:

Delusional maybe I bet his got more shares in them than Boris. 

Are you actually for real? Like - seriously an actual person? Or is there a group of people controlling your posts by committee, trying to deliberately find the worst, most cliched hot takes possible?

Stu_of_Kunming

Bournemouth Addick said:

bobmunro said:

blackpool72 said:

Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch.
A major vote winner in my opinion. 

Apologies for getting political. 

That won't necessarily help. The price rises are linked to the global wholesale prices and it is the likes of BP and Shell (the exploration companies) that are making the big profits. The operating companies like Scottish Power (my provider) are passing on the costs they are incurring. BP and Shell can sell into the global market at the prevailing price. 

If the Government want to stop the price cap going up then they are going to have to subsidise the operating companies (and that's not an unreasonable thing to do) otherwise they will all go pop.  

Is this a bad thing necessarily? If their business is unsustainable without causing massive, unprecedented harm to millions of households and businesses across the UK then maybe they ought not to be in business.

I'm playing devil's advocate a little but what's to stop the government soaking up those businesses that fail as the buyer of last resort and starting the process of returning our nationally important utilities into public ownership?

How much would the prices change if BP and Shell keep their prices the same? 

They won’t just drop their prices because the UK gov are in charge, so the new publicly owned companies would still trade at a loss and require subsidisation. 

Nationalisation Shell and BP, could, quite rightly start a war.