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A petition to ban racists from football.
Comments
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I did not hear any booing of the knee this evening and plenty around me stood and applauded.11
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Few booed. Few applauded. Few were oblivious too it. Most just wanted the game to start. This was lower north to the right0
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Taking the knee is an anti-racism gesture. Booing it pro-racism. You boo it, you’re (pro)racist.10
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Didn’t we have a whole thread on the knee that was taken down?1
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A good post here Redman. This whole idea of lifetime ban seems shortsighted. A prisoner given a lifesentence without possibility of parole, to my mind, is less likely to be incentivised to change in any way than someone who is given a signicant stretch AND some education into what is and isn't acceptable and the opportunity to reintegrate into society.redman said:The only trouble with a lifetime ban is that it misses the point on education. Isn't it more important to make the people see the error of their ways. The abuse on social media could even be from people who never go to games!
The other question is, is it current racial abuse or will there be sanctions about what somebody said 10 years ago (which at the time may or may not have been considered racist).
Don't get me wrong racial abuse is vile and we need to look at ways to get it out of society, but need to be careful.
There is also an inevitability about ones concerns as to what the next issue will be that warrants a lifetime ban. Saying something that is sexist?, disablist?, mocking someone's mental health?, abusing the ref. Swearing?? Or maybe it will come down to "abusing the ref is ok" but not if it's about race, gender, disability, sexuality. I am happy with that but I can see "abuse" becoming littered with contradictions eventually. Then we say "no abuse allowed at all from anyone directed anywhere about anything Or you get a lifetime ban".
Let us hope it never comes to that.
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Yes, heaven forbid there comes a day when we can’t abuse anybody...ValleyOfTears said:
A good post here Redman. This whole idea of lifetime ban seems shortsighted. A prisoner given a lifesentence without possibility of parole, to my mind, is less likely to be incentivised to change in any way than someone who is given a signicant stretch AND some education into what is and isn't acceptable and the opportunity to reintegrate into society.redman said:The only trouble with a lifetime ban is that it misses the point on education. Isn't it more important to make the people see the error of their ways. The abuse on social media could even be from people who never go to games!
The other question is, is it current racial abuse or will there be sanctions about what somebody said 10 years ago (which at the time may or may not have been considered racist).
Don't get me wrong racial abuse is vile and we need to look at ways to get it out of society, but need to be careful.
There is also an inevitability about ones concerns as to what the next issue will be that warrants a lifetime ban. Saying something that is sexist?, disablist?, mocking someone's mental health?, abusing the ref. Swearing?? Or maybe it will come down to "abusing the ref is ok" but not if it's about race, gender, disability, sexuality. I am happy with that but I can see "abuse" becoming littered with contradictions eventually. Then we say "no abuse allowed at all from anyone directed anywhere about anything Or you get a lifetime ban".
Let us hope it never comes to that.3 -
what about if you don't agree with it but don't boo it?Cloudworm said:Taking the knee is an anti-racism gesture. Booing it pro-racism. You boo it, you’re (pro)racist.4 -
That's the point. It's fine to disagreeing it for whatever misguided reason anyone wants. No one is saying you can't do that. But simply look away for the 5 seconds it lasts or just ignore it. To actively boo it is racist imo.palarsehater said:
what about if you don't agree with it but don't boo it?Cloudworm said:Taking the knee is an anti-racism gesture. Booing it pro-racism. You boo it, you’re (pro)racist.13 -
Looking away is exactly what I did on Saturday... I find it disgusting there are still these issues out there, but I dont like to see any politics in Football so dont want to see it.cantersaddick said:
That's the point. It's fine to disagreeing it for whatever misguided reason anyone wants. No one is saying you can't do that. But simply look away for the 5 seconds it lasts or just ignore it. To actively boo it is racist imo.palarsehater said:
what about if you don't agree with it but don't boo it?Cloudworm said:Taking the knee is an anti-racism gesture. Booing it pro-racism. You boo it, you’re (pro)racist.
I also agree its a bit two faced from me as I'll stand and fall silent in November for Remembrance Day, but I do that to pay respect to the ordinary man who gave up his life... Instead I have little respect for the politicians and senior generals who stayed out the way, and ordered men to their death without barely any thought or learning from mistakes3 -
Last night Brian Cole made it absolutely clear why the players take the knee, our players. The knee took up all of about 5 seconds and delayed nothing.
If people disagree, or are actively psychologically racists, they would not suffer by keeping schtum for a passing moment.
To be active, to pro actively boo, is a choice just as taking a knee is a choice. Taking a knee is a choice to take a gesture against racism, booing is a choice…for what reason?
To boo because the gesture is stale?
To boo because the gesture is political?
To boo in order to oppose anti racism?
To boo in order to reveal what is in their mind and heart?
I am glad that near me in the West Stand last night I didn’t hear any booing, and I am glad some chose to stand and applaud.
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In your eyes it's an anti racism gesture , some people see it differently.Cloudworm said:Taking the knee is an anti-racism gesture. Booing it pro-racism. You boo it, you’re (pro)racist.
I am not bothered by it tbf but I do think it has lost its impact.
More education is needed but its still in the media spotlight and people are still talking about so that is good.
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No, not in my eyes at all. It’s the people doing it, the players and only they, who know why they’re doing it- to take a stand against racism. They’ve said so. Are they lying?cafc999 said:
In your eyes it's an anti racism gesture , some people see it differently.Cloudworm said:Taking the knee is an anti-racism gesture. Booing it pro-racism. You boo it, you’re (pro)racist.
I am not bothered by it tbf but I do think it has lost its impact.
More education is needed but its still in the media spotlight and people are still talking about so that is good.7 -
If a tree falls in the forest...palarsehater said:
what about if you don't agree with it but don't boo it?Cloudworm said:Taking the knee is an anti-racism gesture. Booing it pro-racism. You boo it, you’re (pro)racist.
If you’re against it, you’ve probably been reading the wrong newspapers and following the wrong people on social media.0 -
Ok, I shall ammend my post:Cloudworm said:
No, not in my eyes at all. It’s the people doing it, the players and only they, who know why they’re doing it- to take a stand against racism. They’ve said so. Are they lying?cafc999 said:
In your eyes it's an anti racism gesture , some people see it differently.Cloudworm said:Taking the knee is an anti-racism gesture. Booing it pro-racism. You boo it, you’re (pro)racist.
I am not bothered by it tbf but I do think it has lost its impact.
More education is needed but its still in the media spotlight and people are still talking about so that is good.
In the players eyes it's an anti racism gesture , some people see it differently.
I am not bothered by it tbf but I do think it has lost its impact.
More education is needed but its still in the media spotlight and people are still talking about so that is good.
Don't know where you get the lying bit from as some fans do see it differently - they have said so0 -
A boo is not a disinterested or indifferent shrug. It is a statement.9
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Correct, but what is the statement? It could be a plethora of things from being "outright racist" to "I don't like politics to mix with football". You could also say that being silent is just as bad?seth plum said:A boo is not a disinterested or indifferent shrug. It is a statement.
How about we all support the team and get along? How radical would that be?3 -
The poster will have definitley been reading different newspapers to you and following different people on social media. Saying the word wrong though does nothing for inclusion thoughCloudworm said:
If a tree falls in the forest...palarsehater said:
what about if you don't agree with it but don't boo it?Cloudworm said:Taking the knee is an anti-racism gesture. Booing it pro-racism. You boo it, you’re (pro)racist.
If you’re against it, you’ve probably been reading the wrong newspapers and following the wrong people on social media.0 -
If you think you know why players are kneeling better than the players kneeling, there’s something wrong with the information you’re getting. It’s the WRONG information. Quite simple. There’s shite media and good media. If you don’t realise that, you’re probably part of the problem.cafc999 said:
The poster will have definitley been reading different newspapers to you and following different people on social media. Saying the word wrong though does nothing for inclusion thoughCloudworm said:
If a tree falls in the forest...palarsehater said:
what about if you don't agree with it but don't boo it?Cloudworm said:Taking the knee is an anti-racism gesture. Booing it pro-racism. You boo it, you’re (pro)racist.
If you’re against it, you’ve probably been reading the wrong newspapers and following the wrong people on social media.1 -
Is racism really a political issue?
Would have thought it was more a societal issue personally.14 -
Some people interpret the knee as a political statement so I havecafc999 said:
Correct, but what is the statement? It could be a plethora of things from being "outright racist" to "I don't like politics to mix with football". You could also say that being silent is just as bad?seth plum said:A boo is not a disinterested or indifferent shrug. It is a statement.
How about we all support the team and get along? How radical would that be?
the right to interpret the boo as a racist statement.
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You can have a different opinion as long as its the same as mine springs to mind!Cloudworm said:
If you think you know why players are kneeling better than the players kneeling, there’s something wrong with the information you’re getting. It’s the WRONG information. Quite simple. There’s shite media and good media. If you don’t realise that, you’re probably part of the problem.cafc999 said:
The poster will have definitley been reading different newspapers to you and following different people on social media. Saying the word wrong though does nothing for inclusion thoughCloudworm said:
If a tree falls in the forest...palarsehater said:
what about if you don't agree with it but don't boo it?Cloudworm said:Taking the knee is an anti-racism gesture. Booing it pro-racism. You boo it, you’re (pro)racist.
If you’re against it, you’ve probably been reading the wrong newspapers and following the wrong people on social media.
My view is very much supportive of the kneeling and anything else trying to stamp out racism. Some people know what it means but just want to watch the football as to them its a get away from their normal day to day world. Who would have thought that eh?
Am I probably part of the problem? No - see my view on the kneeling in this very post
Maybe someone else may be part of the problem and doesn't realise that.2 -
I totally agree with youSELR_addicks said:Is racism really a political issue?
Would have thought it was more a societal issue personally.0 -
I agree with you but that is our viewseth plum said:
Some people interpret the knee as a political statement so I havecafc999 said:
Correct, but what is the statement? It could be a plethora of things from being "outright racist" to "I don't like politics to mix with football". You could also say that being silent is just as bad?seth plum said:A boo is not a disinterested or indifferent shrug. It is a statement.
How about we all support the team and get along? How radical would that be?
the right to interpret the boo as a racist statement.
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I meant ‘you’ in a general sense. Not ‘you’, as in youcafc999 said:
You can have a different opinion as long as its the same as mine springs to mind!Cloudworm said:
If you think you know why players are kneeling better than the players kneeling, there’s something wrong with the information you’re getting. It’s the WRONG information. Quite simple. There’s shite media and good media. If you don’t realise that, you’re probably part of the problem.cafc999 said:
The poster will have definitley been reading different newspapers to you and following different people on social media. Saying the word wrong though does nothing for inclusion thoughCloudworm said:
If a tree falls in the forest...palarsehater said:
what about if you don't agree with it but don't boo it?Cloudworm said:Taking the knee is an anti-racism gesture. Booing it pro-racism. You boo it, you’re (pro)racist.
If you’re against it, you’ve probably been reading the wrong newspapers and following the wrong people on social media.
My view is very much supportive of the kneeling and anything else trying to stamp out racism. Some people know what it means but just want to watch the football as to them its a get away from their normal day to day world. Who would have thought that eh?
Am I probably part of the problem? No - see my view on the kneeling in this very post
Maybe someone else may be part of the problem and doesn't realise that.
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Why can't there be a middle ground here? why can't the players do something other than take the knee? those booing are doing so because they are anti the BLM movement (which i believe the knee thing started with?), the protests that ignored social distancing, the rioting and pillaging that went on and all the anti police and society stuff - it is not because they are racist (although there are bound to be a few). Maybe they can't do something else now as it will look bad on the BLM movement so an impasse has been reached. I watched that London riots thing on tv the other night and it seemed most of the rioting and anti society behaviour was undertaken by gangs and the dreggs, which seems to be the same in the recent one's in America. Why can't the players do a different signal and i'm sure there would be full support, as there is for the 'kick out racism' campaign and the red, white and black day stuff - never any booing then but people in this country don't like to have political stuff forced upon them in a sporting arena - change the signal from the knee to something else and its problem solved from what i can see4
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DOUCHER said:Why can't there be a middle ground here? why can't the players do something other than take the knee? those booing are doing so because they are anti the BLM movement (which i believe the knee thing started with?), the protests that ignored social distancing, the rioting and pillaging that went on and all the anti police and society stuff - it is not because they are racist (although there are bound to be a few). Maybe they can't do something else now as it will look bad on the BLM movement so an impasse has been reached. I watched that London riots thing on tv the other night and it seemed most of the rioting and anti society behaviour was undertaken by gangs and the dreggs, which seems to be the same in the recent one's in America. Why can't the players do a different signal and i'm sure there would be full support, as there is for the 'kick out racism' campaign and the red, white and black day stuff - never any booing then but people in this country don't like to have political stuff forced upon them in a sporting arena - change the signal from the knee to something else and its problem solved from what i can see
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There isn't a middle ground. The players are demonstrating and representing their view that there needs to be a diminution of racial abuse, incitement and violence. The opposite of that view is that these things should increase. The 'middle ground' would be that the status quo is just fine and dandy, thank you very much. It isn't. By a long, long way. So, the reason that 'there can't be a middle ground' is that the existence of the middle ground what they are protesting about.DOUCHER said:Why can't there be a middle ground here? why can't the players do something other than take the knee? those booing are doing so because they are anti the BLM movement (which i believe the knee thing started with?), the protests that ignored social distancing, the rioting and pillaging that went on and all the anti police and society stuff - it is not because they are racist (although there are bound to be a few). Maybe they can't do something else now as it will look bad on the BLM movement so an impasse has been reached. I watched that London riots thing on tv the other night and it seemed most of the rioting and anti society behaviour was undertaken by gangs and the dreggs, which seems to be the same in the recent one's in America. Why can't the players do a different signal and i'm sure there would be full support, as there is for the 'kick out racism' campaign and the red, white and black day stuff - never any booing then but people in this country don't like to have political stuff forced upon them in a sporting arena - change the signal from the knee to something else and its problem solved from what i can see
The players can, absolutely, decide to do something other than taking the knee. They could do something else. Stand with their hands, firmly over their hearts. Salute. Stand on one leg. Make like a teapot. The taking of the knee is what those protesting have decided to do. And that should be good enough. You don't get to tell the people protesting for positive change how they should protest, and ignore the positive change they are calling for.
The players can 'do a different signal'. They choose not to. And the longer people complain about the method of the protest instead of the cause for which they are protesting, they are quite right to continue doing so. If taking the knee gets under people's skin, then that's absolutely what they should continue to do. Because far, far worse things are happening and being ignored than a group of (mostly) young (mostly) men using a platform to call for our society to be a bit better.
'Change the knee to something else and it's problem solved' is a very unwise statement. Because the problem is not the knee, it's the racists.25 -
The life expectancy of an officer in WW1 was shorter than the non officer ranks apparently.ForeverAddickted said:
Looking away is exactly what I did on Saturday... I find it disgusting there are still these issues out there, but I dont like to see any politics in Football so dont want to see it.cantersaddick said:
That's the point. It's fine to disagreeing it for whatever misguided reason anyone wants. No one is saying you can't do that. But simply look away for the 5 seconds it lasts or just ignore it. To actively boo it is racist imo.palarsehater said:
what about if you don't agree with it but don't boo it?Cloudworm said:Taking the knee is an anti-racism gesture. Booing it pro-racism. You boo it, you’re (pro)racist.
I also agree its a bit two faced from me as I'll stand and fall silent in November for Remembrance Day, but I do that to pay respect to the ordinary man who gave up his life... Instead I have little respect for the politicians and senior generals who stayed out the way, and ordered men to their death without barely any thought or learning from mistakes0 -
So so naive.DOUCHER said:Why can't there be a middle ground here? why can't the players do something other than take the knee? those booing are doing so because they are anti the BLM movement (which i believe the knee thing started with?), the protests that ignored social distancing, the rioting and pillaging that went on and all the anti police and society stuff - it is not because they are racist (although there are bound to be a few). Maybe they can't do something else now as it will look bad on the BLM movement so an impasse has been reached. I watched that London riots thing on tv the other night and it seemed most of the rioting and anti society behaviour was undertaken by gangs and the dreggs, which seems to be the same in the recent one's in America. Why can't the players do a different signal and i'm sure there would be full support, as there is for the 'kick out racism' campaign and the red, white and black day stuff - never any booing then but people in this country don't like to have political stuff forced upon them in a sporting arena - change the signal from the knee to something else and its problem solved from what i can see
The same people would boo the players sitting on the floor, raising their hands up in the air, turning their back to the ball, literally anything they choose to do.11 -
well there's only 1 way to find out isn't thereSELR_addicks said:
So so naive.DOUCHER said:Why can't there be a middle ground here? why can't the players do something other than take the knee? those booing are doing so because they are anti the BLM movement (which i believe the knee thing started with?), the protests that ignored social distancing, the rioting and pillaging that went on and all the anti police and society stuff - it is not because they are racist (although there are bound to be a few). Maybe they can't do something else now as it will look bad on the BLM movement so an impasse has been reached. I watched that London riots thing on tv the other night and it seemed most of the rioting and anti society behaviour was undertaken by gangs and the dreggs, which seems to be the same in the recent one's in America. Why can't the players do a different signal and i'm sure there would be full support, as there is for the 'kick out racism' campaign and the red, white and black day stuff - never any booing then but people in this country don't like to have political stuff forced upon them in a sporting arena - change the signal from the knee to something else and its problem solved from what i can see
The same people would boo the players sitting on the floor, raising their hands up in the air, turning their back to the ball, literally anything they choose to do.1
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