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Football died a little bit yesterday (VAR)

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  • StigThundercock
    StigThundercock Posts: 3,722
    No.1 in South London said:
     just make the offside rule apply to players feet only....... simple no nonsense rule even the plebs officiating can understand 
    This with bells on - Bamford a case in point.
    Plus there have to be cameras both sides of the pitch - the Bamford VAR view is from one side only and at an angle making it impossible to tell where the partially obscured defender stands.

    On the "interfering with play" phoney argument, I'm with Brian Clough ""If any one of my players isn’t interfering with play, they’re not getting paid."
  • cafc999
    cafc999 Posts: 4,967
    stevexreeve said:
    cafc999 said:
    randy andy said:
    The referee missing something is a clear and obvious error and why would the ref then call for VAR if he totally missed it? Unless we then rely on the players informing the referee that VAR is necessary, which not only would take longer for the individual incident, but players would be calling for VAR non-stop, in the hope it can bale them out of every situation.

    No, the recommendation to.look again has to come from a third party. The problem now is the VAR is operated by fellow referees, with all the inherent biases and conflicts of interest, and (in the case of offside) they are going by the ridiculously anal, millimetre perfect letter of the law, rather than the spirit of the law. The offside law was brought in to stop goal hanging. If the player isn't gaining a clear and obvious advantage from their offside position, then it doesn't matter where they are standing, but that's not what the rules say unfortunately.

    One example would be a foul on the line of the penalty area. The ref could say "There has been a foul, can you direct me if it was a penalty or free kick?" That would be a good use of VAR
    You mean VAR could be another official just like the linesmen who can assist the ref and help him come to a decision by quickly pointing out things he/she happens to see more clearly.

    Now that would be too good an idea. It will never happen!


    You know what I mean. The way it is currently being used means we are no better off now then when we didn't have it.

    Change the way it's being used or scrap it, preferably the latter
  • jimmymelrose
    jimmymelrose Posts: 9,750
    A great article about VAR, and handball as a 'microcrime':

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/nov/07/referees-strict-rulings-on-unseen-handball-microcrimes-are-ruining-football 
  • Danepak
    Danepak Posts: 1,628
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiu8nwwPaXI

    2:25. Never a red card. Not sure why VAR even brought it up for the refs attention. That's not lashing out. His eyes are even closed.
    Even more surprised that the ref, after watching it on the screen, deems it a red card. Shows how crap the A-League refs are.
    Nix lost 2 points there. In total control.
  • Danepak
    Danepak Posts: 1,628
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXoD0MFuu8g

    3:20

    How's that not a penalty?
  • lordromford
    lordromford Posts: 7,779
    The very situation held up as the big “what if?” just happened in the La Liga match between Real Madrid and Sevilla:
    Claims for a penalty to Sevilla were waved away - Real counter attacked and were brought down in the box and a penalty was awarded to Madrid.
    VAR checked the original incident and the penalty to Sevilla was awarded.
    VAR involvement caused (or maybe prevented?) a potential two goal swing.

    Could’ve been 2-1 Madrid, became 1-2 Sevilla. Enormous potential consequences for the title race too.

    That twat Perez will be fuming. 😂
  • SELR_addicks
    SELR_addicks Posts: 15,446
    Looks like they've decided to just stop changing the on-field decision. 

    VAR referees so scared of changing referee's minds that bad decisions are being left unchanged. 
  • ChiAddick
    ChiAddick Posts: 1,781
    SELR_addicks said:
    Looks like they've decided to just stop changing the on-field decision. 

    VAR referees so scared of changing referee's minds that bad decisions are being left unchanged. 
    They are not unchallenged. The VAR ref will tell the on pitch ref to go look at the monitors. Last season var would over turn a decision without the on field ref having a look. I think its an improvement. 
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,759
    Are we talking about Saka/James here? Good old fashioned shoulder to shoulder. Not a clear and obvious error for me.
  • O-Randy-Hunt
    O-Randy-Hunt Posts: 10,634
    ChiAddick said:
    SELR_addicks said:
    Looks like they've decided to just stop changing the on-field decision. 

    VAR referees so scared of changing referee's minds that bad decisions are being left unchanged. 
    They are not unchallenged. The VAR ref will tell the on pitch ref to go look at the monitors. Last season var would over turn a decision without the on field ref having a look. I think its an improvement. 
    Agree
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  • SELR_addicks
    SELR_addicks Posts: 15,446
    ChiAddick said:
    SELR_addicks said:
    Looks like they've decided to just stop changing the on-field decision. 

    VAR referees so scared of changing referee's minds that bad decisions are being left unchanged. 
    They are not unchallenged. The VAR ref will tell the on pitch ref to go look at the monitors. Last season var would over turn a decision without the on field ref having a look. I think its an improvement. 
    Refs haven't gone to the monitors at all though. So either they're not telling them or the ref isn't listening. 
  • SELR_addicks
    SELR_addicks Posts: 15,446
    edited August 2021
    Callumcafc said:
    Are we talking about Saka/James here? Good old fashioned shoulder to shoulder. Not a clear and obvious error for me.
    Clumsily falling into a player isn't shoulder to shoulder. 

    Isn't just this one but seems like every week there's a penalty decision or two that goes unpunished because VAR don't bother asking the ref to change his mind. 

    Brentford's second goal against Arsenal for one. For a foul on Leno, something so obvious that even Klopp came out against it. 
  • SuedeAdidas
    SuedeAdidas Posts: 7,737
    Callumcafc said:
    Are we talking about Saka/James here? Good old fashioned shoulder to shoulder. Not a clear and obvious error for me.
    Exactly this. It appears that they are now only going to refer to ref where there has been a clear and obvious error. 

    If they stick to this then it is a clear improvement fro my perspective. 


  • SporadicAddick
    SporadicAddick Posts: 6,846
    VAR use last season was an abomination - they seem to have the balance just about right now. You'll never eradicate the decisions that are down to a subjective view (like Saka / James). Whether it was a penalty or not I'm not that bothered - what I am pleased about is that the ref's on field decision wasn't challenged because it wasn't a clear and obvious error..
  • stevexreeve
    stevexreeve Posts: 1,385
    Don't really care what they do behind the scenes so long as they do it quickly and without all the bloody fanfare. 
  • SELR_addicks
    SELR_addicks Posts: 15,446
    "Referees will be under orders not to give the kind of penalty that England's Raheem Sterling was awarded in their Euro 2020 semi-final win over Denmark.

    There was only minimal contact on Sterling when he won a late spot-kick."


    https://youtu.be/nMJkpG4MfRo?t=20

  • randy andy
    randy andy Posts: 5,454
    SELR_addicks said:
    ChiAddick said:
    SELR_addicks said:
    Looks like they've decided to just stop changing the on-field decision. 

    VAR referees so scared of changing referee's minds that bad decisions are being left unchanged. 
    They are not unchallenged. The VAR ref will tell the on pitch ref to go look at the monitors. Last season var would over turn a decision without the on field ref having a look. I think its an improvement. 
    Refs haven't gone to the monitors at all though. So either they're not telling them or the ref isn't listening. 
    a) we're only 2 games into the season
    b) the ref was sent to the monitor in the Everton game yesterday
  • O-Randy-Hunt
    O-Randy-Hunt Posts: 10,634
    SELR_addicks said:
    ChiAddick said:
    SELR_addicks said:
    Looks like they've decided to just stop changing the on-field decision. 

    VAR referees so scared of changing referee's minds that bad decisions are being left unchanged. 
    They are not unchallenged. The VAR ref will tell the on pitch ref to go look at the monitors. Last season var would over turn a decision without the on field ref having a look. I think its an improvement. 
    Refs haven't gone to the monitors at all though. So either they're not telling them or the ref isn't listening. 
    👀
  • Andyessgee90
    Andyessgee90 Posts: 844
    It might slow the game down but I wish they would use VAR to expose diving twats. Just before that benrahma goal he got a hand on his shoulder and went down into a full 3 and a half rolypolys holding his shin. What happened to all this retrospective action against it as well. He knows exactly what he’s doing. 
  • Greenie
    Greenie Posts: 9,172
    Andyessgee90 said:
    It might slow the game down but I wish they would use VAR to expose diving twats. Just before that benrahma goal he got a hand on his shoulder and went down into a full 3 and a half rolypolys holding his shin. What happened to all this retrospective action against it as well. He knows exactly what he’s doing. 
    Pet hate of mine, if they get caught blatantly diving it’s cheating. They should get a ten match ban. You watch them all stand up if this happened, however it won’t, why? Because all the while the FA call it ‘simulation’ and not cheating then it’s never going to be addressed.
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  • EveshamAddick
    EveshamAddick Posts: 7,013
    Andyessgee90 said:
    It might slow the game down but I wish they would use VAR to expose diving twats. Just before that benrahma goal he got a hand on his shoulder and went down into a full 3 and a half rolypolys holding his shin. What happened to all this retrospective action against it as well. He knows exactly what he’s doing. 
    It was refreshing in the Euros to see the referees not falling for this sort of nonsense.
  • SELR_addicks
    SELR_addicks Posts: 15,446
    Another clear penalty in the Leeds v Newcastle game not given because VAR are too scared to overturn a refs decision this season. 
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 51,989
    SELR_addicks said:
    Another clear penalty in the Leeds v Newcastle game not given because VAR are too scared to overturn a refs decision this season. 
    It possibly was a penalty, but that's debateable, which is the crux of the matter.
    It wasn't a clear and obvious error.
    Football has been so much better this season without VAR's constant inteference. 
  • randy andy
    randy andy Posts: 5,454
    Not sure how the Southampton penalty was over turned. The attacker was between Walker and the ball, Walker makes a challenge on the attacker that never makes contact with the ball, bit it's somehow deemed not a penalty, and not by VAR, but by the ref.

    I don't understand how the ref can give a penalty, watch a replay when the defender clatters into the back of the attacker and never gets close to the ball and thinks "Hmm, I obviously got that wrong initally"
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,622
    Watching MOTD2 this evening & thinking "'wtf".......have VAR now just decided to turn a blind eye to penalty appeals & just leaving to the ref. I know Ronaldo is a bit of a diver but at least 1 of his was a pen...
    ....and then the WHam one where the ref gave it a foul the other way. Then the Brighton game was just a joke. If VAR was doing its job then that game was a win for Leicester. Should have been no pen for Brighton & at least another goal for Leicester.


  • SuedeAdidas
    SuedeAdidas Posts: 7,737
    golfaddick said:
    Watching MOTD2 this evening & thinking "'wtf".......have VAR now just decided to turn a blind eye to penalty appeals & just leaving to the ref. I know Ronaldo is a bit of a diver but at least 1 of his was a pen...
    ....and then the WHam one where the ref gave it a foul the other way. Then the Brighton game was just a joke. If VAR was doing its job then that game was a win for Leicester. Should have been no pen for Brighton & at least another goal for Leicester.



    The 2nd Ronaldo one was definitely a pen and certainly fell into the ‘clear and obvious error’ category for me. 

    I can see what the first one was dismissed as he definitely went for the Gerrard ploy of instigating the contact. 
  • blackheathaddick
    blackheathaddick Posts: 1,404
    Ronaldo was already on his way down before contact for the 2nd one, and went looking for the first one by leaving his right leg in an area it would make contact with the defender. Ref called them both right, and VAR correctly backed them up. This is exactly what VAR is for. Correctly spotting cheating. 

    If Ronaldo had carried on running on the 2nd one he may have got fouled, but the fact he was already on his way down before contact is what worked against him.

    You've literally identified an example of what VAR does well and used it as a reason why VAR doesn't work.
  • SuedeAdidas
    SuedeAdidas Posts: 7,737
    edited September 2021
    blackheathaddick said:
    Ronaldo was already on his way down before contact for the 2nd one, and went looking for the first one by leaving his right leg in an area it would make contact with the defender. Ref called them both right, and VAR correctly backed them up. This is exactly what VAR is for. Correctly spotting cheating. 

    If Ronaldo had carried on running on the 2nd one he may have got fouled, but the fact he was already on his way down before contact is what worked against him.

    You've literally identified an example of what VAR does well and used it as a reason why VAR doesn't work.
    I disagree.......and the fact that we disagree AFTER VAR.....suggests to me that it is still a waste of time. We may as well just disagree over the ref's initial decision.


  • PeterGage
    PeterGage Posts: 1,793
    randy andy said:
    Not sure how the Southampton penalty was over turned. The attacker was between Walker and the ball, Walker makes a challenge on the attacker that never makes contact with the ball, bit it's somehow deemed not a penalty, and not by VAR, but by the ref.

    I don't understand how the ref can give a penalty, watch a replay when the defender clatters into the back of the attacker and never gets close to the ball and thinks "Hmm, I obviously got that wrong initally"
    randy andy said:
    Not sure how the Southampton penalty was over turned. The attacker was between Walker and the ball, Walker makes a challenge on the attacker that never makes contact with the ball, bit it's somehow deemed not a penalty, and not by VAR, but by the ref.

    I don't understand how the ref can give a penalty, watch a replay when the defender clatters into the back of the attacker and never gets close to the ball and thinks "Hmm, I obviously got that wrong initally"
    Andy, the penalty was overturned because the initial decision was wrong. Walker recovered to be able to occupy uncontested space in front of the Saints attacker ( with his leg) whilst attempting to play the ball. It was the Saints attacker who initiated the contact; Walker did not clatter into the opponent, as you suggested. Football is a contact sport and therefore not every "coming together" is a foul, one way or the other. We can all be forgiven for thinking it was a foul, having seen it in real time, but VAR did its job on this occasion for highlighting the initial error.

    Have a nice day.
  • blackheathaddick
    blackheathaddick Posts: 1,404
    SuedeAdidas said:
    blackheathaddick said:
    Ronaldo was already on his way down before contact for the 2nd one, and went looking for the first one by leaving his right leg in an area it would make contact with the defender. Ref called them both right, and VAR correctly backed them up. This is exactly what VAR is for. Correctly spotting cheating. 

    If Ronaldo had carried on running on the 2nd one he may have got fouled, but the fact he was already on his way down before contact is what worked against him.

    You've literally identified an example of what VAR does well and used it as a reason why VAR doesn't work.
    I disagree.......and the fact that we disagree AFTER VAR.....suggests to me that it is still a waste of time. We may as well just disagree over the ref's initial decision.


    But the ref didn't give it, and the VAR didn't overturn it. So it did what you wanted. 

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