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European Super League - clubs withdrawing p42 onwards.
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Good point just made on SSN, this is NOT a European Super League, there are approximately 50 countries affiliated to UEFA, this league is for clubs from just 3 of them - England, Italy and Spain, so hardly European!! This is being set up by faceless owners, mainly from The States who don't understand relegation and promotion as they only know the non-jeopardy model of Franchise.4
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Yep, there is no way that situation will last. This is purely an trap to get everybody else to agree. "let us leave with all the money, you can join us later, we promise"LoOkOuT said:My sense is that the five invited clubs is a temporary arrangement. At some point, the spots will be filled and that'll be that. Like musical chairs.0 -
It's not even branded as the ESL is it? Just Super League. That gives you a glimpse into the future.4
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The extra 5 is unsustainable, how can a club build the extra capacity it would need for a revenue stream that could last for only one year.
Anyway it's all bollocks and a few more quid will be slid across the table.1 -
All the football grounds in this country have to be licensed by the Football Licensing Authority. If one looks at the criteria needed to obtain a license there is a clause that basically says “ anything else that the FLA feels is relevant”. I think that the good of the game in this country and the nuisance caused to a community when large crowds gather in the vicinity of certain grounds to be a valid reason for, say, Tottenham’s spanking new ground to be shut for the foreseeable future.1
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I assume this is headed for the courts. The "Super Leaguers" must have considered all the possible reactions and positions from the likes of UEFA, including the strong reaction from them this afternoon, and they still considered it worthwhile to announce the breakaway. UEFA need to hold firm; no compromise.
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It's like the Eurovision Song Contest where for example UK as a major financial contributor automatically gets to the final, whereas smaller countries have to qualify...Algarveaddick said:
This is what I said in my post:WSS said:And what happens if one of the five "invited" clubs ends up winning the thing or even just getting in the Top 5/6?
"The format is a bit baffling with the idea of five other clubs “qualifying” each season. Where from? Based on what criteria? Who gets replaced each year – presumably the five that qualified the previous year, regardless of where they finish? So, you could see the four semi-finalists getting kicked out the following season if they are not among the fifteen founders? It is ridiculous beyond belief."
The whole concept of fifteen permanent members and five fluctuating ones is so baffling I can't understand why anyone is taking it seriously. You are a closed shop, or you are not, surely?2 -
great post, 100% spot onrandy andy said:Juve and the Milan twins, plus Barca and Real may be right in thinking they have their domestic leagues over a barrel. The so called "big 6" are fooling themselves if they think they have the same necessity here.
Let's not kids ourselves, pre-Abromovic, Chelsea were a nothing club, languishing in mid-table, reminiscing over their brief 70s hey day. Man City were a 3rd division clubs, Liverpool hadn't won the league in 30 years, Arsenal and Tottenham are mid-table, Tottenham haven't been that much better than that in decades and Arsenal were that pre-George Graham. The league didn't fall apart when Man Utd were a second division team, nor when they were finishing mid-table in the 80s and last decade.
Equally, the domestic game didn't fall apart when Leicester, Blackburn, Leeds, Everton, Villa or Forest won the top flight. The game will continue unabated, there are plenty of big clubs and big clubs in waiting. The things that make the English game successful will remain, and many of those things won't be replicated in the Super League. The money may be less, but after a painful readjustment I don't think it will be fatally less.
What these owners don't understand is that the big European nights are special because they're not every week. The more you try to make them every week the less special they become. The champions league group stage viewing figures have been declining. Increasing the number of group games (either via new champs league format or super league) won't reverse that trend, it will only accelerate it (there will probably be a short term increase, but that will disappear once the novelty has worn off).
Lived experience tells us that the most hyped games between the supposed best teams are usually fairly poor. The pressure is too much, the teams too closely matched. The best games are often surprises, and any attempt to artificially generate more better games usually has the opposite effect.2 -
The bad news is that they will want the players to be banned from internationals and to play less football, and kicking them out plays into their hands too .. they are making a money grab for the richest purse in world football, because covid has made all these money men realise they can’t compete without more money coming in.They care not a jot for the damage caused and really this is the time for the fans of these top brands, not too 6 teams but top 6 brands to stand up and make it clear they will not attend.1
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I'm sure the only reason they have the 5 qualifying/invited clubs each year is to try and avoid the accusations of it being a closed shop and probably to try and skirt legal competition rules. There were details leaked a couple of months back that shows that if one of the qualifying clubs were to win the whole competition they'd earn less than a Barca or Real because of how the payments are structured which gives all the detail anyone needs if they weren't quite sure if there was some footballing merit behind this proposal.Algarveaddick said:
This is what I said in my post:WSS said:And what happens if one of the five "invited" clubs ends up winning the thing or even just getting in the Top 5/6?
"The format is a bit baffling with the idea of five other clubs “qualifying” each season. Where from? Based on what criteria? Who gets replaced each year – presumably the five that qualified the previous year, regardless of where they finish? So, you could see the four semi-finalists getting kicked out the following season if they are not among the fifteen founders? It is ridiculous beyond belief."
The whole concept of fifteen permanent members and five fluctuating ones is so baffling I can't understand why anyone is taking it seriously. You are a closed shop, or you are not, surely?0 - Sponsored links:
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If this did go ahead, I wonder how they would reorganise the remaining teams?
This is just me making it up, but one solution could be:
Prem: (20 teams): None relegated, six promoted from Championship.
Champ: (22 teams): Two relegated, six promoted from League 1.
Lge 1: (22 teams): Two relegated, six promoted from League 2.
Lge 2: (22 teams): Two relegated, six promoted from National League.
They could also change more divisions to 20 teams by reducing the number of promotions. I assume the debate would go on for ages.1 -
Everyone seems to agree about all this for once!
I don't support any of the fabulous six so they can do what they like so far as I'm concerned.
I'm not in the least bit interested in the Formula One circus but that doesn't stop me driving a car. Live and let live.1 -
....we'd finish 7thGoOnYouHaddocks said:If this did go ahead, I wonder how they would reorganise the remaining teams?
This is just me making it up, but one solution could be:
Prem: (20 teams): None relegated, six promoted from Championship.
Champ: (22 teams): Two relegated, six promoted from League 1.
Lge 1: (22 teams): Two relegated, six promoted from League 2.
Lge 2: (22 teams): Two relegated, six promoted from National League.
They could also change all divisions to 20 teams and reduce the number of promotions. I assume the debate would go on for ages.9 -
DOUCHER said:could be the best thing to happen to our football leagues for 30 years - let them all f**k off and slowly die
Not fair on their proper lifelong fans. Most of whom have hated seeing the way their local institutions that have been supported by generations of their kin have been sold out to billionaire egoists and over commercialised to global audiences.
It's very wrong and for every armchair plastic arguing support for this I imagine there will be tens of the old school support feeling pretty devastated today.3 -
It always surprises me how many people support Charlton, and other clubs, with so much passion and dedication and have very little or no interest in any other football.Croydon said:
This is me to a tee. If COVID football has made me realise anything, it's that I'm not actually that much of a football fan. I'm a Charlton fan, but that's it.MuttleyCAFC said:There are many fans, like us, who are content not to see the very best players in the world play. They support their club and want them to beat the team they are facing up against and do well in the league they are playing in.
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Cafc43v3r said:
It always surprises me how many people support Charlton, and other clubs, with so much passion and dedication and have very little or no interest in any other football.Croydon said:
This is me to a tee. If COVID football has made me realise anything, it's that I'm not actually that much of a football fan. I'm a Charlton fan, but that's it.MuttleyCAFC said:There are many fans, like us, who are content not to see the very best players in the world play. They support their club and want them to beat the team they are facing up against and do well in the league they are playing in.
Supporting Charlton for a few years is enough to put you off football for life!2 -
Funny watching BBC news coverage at 1pm, with film of all the English "Super League" clubs lifting the Premier League trophy;
Liverpool, Arsenal, Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea and Tott.... err actually, they didn't show any images of Tottenham..16 -
My interest is best described as curiosity towards other teams, I.e huh, jesse lingard is doing well this season, that's Interesting I wonder where these performances were for utd.Cafc43v3r said:
It always surprises me how many people support Charlton, and other clubs, with so much passion and dedication and have very little or no interest in any other football.Croydon said:
This is me to a tee. If COVID football has made me realise anything, it's that I'm not actually that much of a football fan. I'm a Charlton fan, but that's it.MuttleyCAFC said:There are many fans, like us, who are content not to see the very best players in the world play. They support their club and want them to beat the team they are facing up against and do well in the league they are playing in.
It about stops there2 -
WSS said:It's not even branded as the ESL is it? Just Super League. That gives you a glimpse into the future.
Spot on before long there will be a franchise in Dubai, Sydney, Hong Kong etc.5 - Sponsored links:
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Isn't that like F1 where Ferrari get more money than the other teams, even if they're not successful?colthe3rd said:
I'm sure the only reason they have the 5 qualifying/invited clubs each year is to try and avoid the accusations of it being a closed shop and probably to try and skirt legal competition rules. There were details leaked a couple of months back that shows that if one of the qualifying clubs were to win the whole competition they'd earn less than a Barca or Real because of how the payments are structured which gives all the detail anyone needs if they weren't quite sure if there was some footballing merit behind this proposal.Algarveaddick said:
This is what I said in my post:WSS said:And what happens if one of the five "invited" clubs ends up winning the thing or even just getting in the Top 5/6?
"The format is a bit baffling with the idea of five other clubs “qualifying” each season. Where from? Based on what criteria? Who gets replaced each year – presumably the five that qualified the previous year, regardless of where they finish? So, you could see the four semi-finalists getting kicked out the following season if they are not among the fifteen founders? It is ridiculous beyond belief."
The whole concept of fifteen permanent members and five fluctuating ones is so baffling I can't understand why anyone is taking it seriously. You are a closed shop, or you are not, surely?1 -
Inter Miami comes to mind...roseandcrown said:WSS said:It's not even branded as the ESL is it? Just Super League. That gives you a glimpse into the future.
Spot on before long there will be a franchise in Dubai, Sydney, Hong Kong etc.7 -
Legacy payments? I don't know how you'd compare it but t's a one off yearly sum for sticking around for 50+ years and also in a way paying them for the viewership they bring because people want to see ferrari racing.killerandflash said:
Isn't that like F1 where Ferrari get more money than the other teams, even if they're not successful?colthe3rd said:
I'm sure the only reason they have the 5 qualifying/invited clubs each year is to try and avoid the accusations of it being a closed shop and probably to try and skirt legal competition rules. There were details leaked a couple of months back that shows that if one of the qualifying clubs were to win the whole competition they'd earn less than a Barca or Real because of how the payments are structured which gives all the detail anyone needs if they weren't quite sure if there was some footballing merit behind this proposal.Algarveaddick said:
This is what I said in my post:WSS said:And what happens if one of the five "invited" clubs ends up winning the thing or even just getting in the Top 5/6?
"The format is a bit baffling with the idea of five other clubs “qualifying” each season. Where from? Based on what criteria? Who gets replaced each year – presumably the five that qualified the previous year, regardless of where they finish? So, you could see the four semi-finalists getting kicked out the following season if they are not among the fifteen founders? It is ridiculous beyond belief."
The whole concept of fifteen permanent members and five fluctuating ones is so baffling I can't understand why anyone is taking it seriously. You are a closed shop, or you are not, surely?
Apart from that the prize pool is split pretty evenly. They all get a base money cheque for competing then a second payment depending where they finished.
Last time I checked which was 2019 season pre Covid top teams ie Mercedes, ferrari only made double wgat the bottom team Williams did. Which Conaidering their higher operating costs of the former wasn't too unfair on my eyes.1 -
They would earn less - fine Col, but how do they then relegate their champions? Either that happens or one of the founders goes and that flies in the face of the whole exercise.colthe3rd said:
I'm sure the only reason they have the 5 qualifying/invited clubs each year is to try and avoid the accusations of it being a closed shop and probably to try and skirt legal competition rules. There were details leaked a couple of months back that shows that if one of the qualifying clubs were to win the whole competition they'd earn less than a Barca or Real because of how the payments are structured which gives all the detail anyone needs if they weren't quite sure if there was some footballing merit behind this proposal.Algarveaddick said:
This is what I said in my post:WSS said:And what happens if one of the five "invited" clubs ends up winning the thing or even just getting in the Top 5/6?
"The format is a bit baffling with the idea of five other clubs “qualifying” each season. Where from? Based on what criteria? Who gets replaced each year – presumably the five that qualified the previous year, regardless of where they finish? So, you could see the four semi-finalists getting kicked out the following season if they are not among the fifteen founders? It is ridiculous beyond belief."
The whole concept of fifteen permanent members and five fluctuating ones is so baffling I can't understand why anyone is taking it seriously. You are a closed shop, or you are not, surely?0 -
UEFA will sell out as long as they get a few quid from the SL and pay lip service to overseeing it.Killarahales said:I assume this is headed for the courts. The "Super Leaguers" must have considered all the possible reactions and positions from the likes of UEFA, including the strong reaction from them this afternoon, and they still considered it worthwhile to announce the breakaway. UEFA need to hold firm; no compromise.
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Scottish FA are fucking loving it though, they might start qualifying for competitions!mascot88 said:The bad news is that they will want the players to be banned from internationals and to play less football, and kicking them out plays into their hands too .. they are making a money grab for the richest purse in world football, because covid has made all these money men realise they can’t compete without more money coming in.They care not a jot for the damage caused and really this is the time for the fans of these top brands, not too 6 teams but top 6 brands to stand up and make it clear they will not attend.0 -
Most games are not that good to watch as a spectacle. I don't watch dull games unless I really want one of the teams to win or lose. I have no problem watching a tedious CAFC 1-0 away win - I can take any amount of those! I used to watch all the English clubs in the European competitions as it felt like they represented England. For me the Champions League was boring till the final stages and that has got dull because its largely the same teams every year. Probably in the minority but its honestly the way I feel.Cafc43v3r said:
It always surprises me how many people support Charlton, and other clubs, with so much passion and dedication and have very little or no interest in any other football.Croydon said:
This is me to a tee. If COVID football has made me realise anything, it's that I'm not actually that much of a football fan. I'm a Charlton fan, but that's it.MuttleyCAFC said:There are many fans, like us, who are content not to see the very best players in the world play. They support their club and want them to beat the team they are facing up against and do well in the league they are playing in.2 -
Plenty of talk about Super League this, Super League that ... and not one mention of St Helens, Wigan Warriors, Leeds Rhinos, or Hull Kingston Rovers.12
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And I thought the ESL was far fetched...cafcpolo said:
Scottish FA are fucking loving it though, they might start qualifying for competitions!mascot88 said:The bad news is that they will want the players to be banned from internationals and to play less football, and kicking them out plays into their hands too .. they are making a money grab for the richest purse in world football, because covid has made all these money men realise they can’t compete without more money coming in.They care not a jot for the damage caused and really this is the time for the fans of these top brands, not too 6 teams but top 6 brands to stand up and make it clear they will not attend.0 -
You don't relegate 2 from the championship and promote 6, there's just no relegations this year. 6 up from championship, 6 up from league 1 etc. Also, certainly don't adjust (change to 20) other leagues just to fit around this bollox.GoOnYouHaddocks said:If this did go ahead, I wonder how they would reorganise the remaining teams?
This is just me making it up, but one solution could be:
Prem: (20 teams): None relegated, six promoted from Championship.
Champ: (22 teams): Two relegated, six promoted from League 1.
Lge 1: (22 teams): Two relegated, six promoted from League 2.
Lge 2: (22 teams): Two relegated, six promoted from National League.
They could also change more divisions to 20 teams by reducing the number of promotions. I assume the debate would go on for ages.0
