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European Super League - clubs withdrawing p42 onwards.
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Grapevine49 started composing a post this morning.SoundAsa£ said:I await a Grapevine49 monologue, should be very interesting.
It should be ready for publication sometime on Thursday.
We'll finish reading it on Saturday.
And then Admin can close the thread because there will be nothing left to add to the debate.17 -
Ferrari getting extra money for their history and global popularity sounds very similar to Real Madrid or Manchester United getting more Super League money than Atletico Madrid or Manchester City for the same reasons...LTKapal said:
Legacy payments? I don't know how you'd compare it but t's a one off yearly sum for sticking around for 50+ years and also in a way paying them for the viewership they bring because people want to see ferrari racing.killerandflash said:
Isn't that like F1 where Ferrari get more money than the other teams, even if they're not successful?colthe3rd said:
I'm sure the only reason they have the 5 qualifying/invited clubs each year is to try and avoid the accusations of it being a closed shop and probably to try and skirt legal competition rules. There were details leaked a couple of months back that shows that if one of the qualifying clubs were to win the whole competition they'd earn less than a Barca or Real because of how the payments are structured which gives all the detail anyone needs if they weren't quite sure if there was some footballing merit behind this proposal.Algarveaddick said:
This is what I said in my post:WSS said:And what happens if one of the five "invited" clubs ends up winning the thing or even just getting in the Top 5/6?
"The format is a bit baffling with the idea of five other clubs “qualifying” each season. Where from? Based on what criteria? Who gets replaced each year – presumably the five that qualified the previous year, regardless of where they finish? So, you could see the four semi-finalists getting kicked out the following season if they are not among the fifteen founders? It is ridiculous beyond belief."
The whole concept of fifteen permanent members and five fluctuating ones is so baffling I can't understand why anyone is taking it seriously. You are a closed shop, or you are not, surely?
Apart from that the prize pool is split pretty evenly. They all get a base money cheque for competing then a second payment depending where they finished.
Last time I checked which was 2019 season pre Covid top teams ie Mercedes, ferrari only made double wgat the bottom team Williams did. Which Conaidering their higher operating costs of the former wasn't too unfair on my eyes.
It's the same principle of rewarding the biggest "brands" on the basis of their historical success and popularity rather than current day achievements.0 -
Do people actually "support" Ferrarri?
Does anyone actually get irritable and frustrated when they are not doing well in the constructors league. Or remember the day they won the thing as one of the most enjoyable afternoon's entertainment of their lives.
It's not really a sport is it.14 -
I think you should be on the F1 thread.stevexreeve said:Do people actually "support" Ferrarri?
Does anyone actually get irritable and frustrated when they are not doing well in the constructors league. Or remember the day they won the thing as one of the most enjoyable afternoon's entertainment of their lives.
It's not really a sport is it.3 -
Er, only because we now live in Ireland.addick1956 said:
So he prefers to watch football at home...typical non fan then .KBslittlesis said:I managed to last 10yrs before I finally succumbed to a Sky subscription.
It’ll happen.
Fans are loyal to their teams and they know it, the barstewards.
Lets see how long I last this time when I have a Spurs supporting husband.
Before that he had a Charlton season ticket next to me.3 -
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They do. I think most F1 fans support a driver (there are a lot of British people that support Hamilton for example) but it's different with Italians:stevexreeve said:Do people actually "support" Ferrarri?
Does anyone actually get irritable and frustrated when they are not doing well in the constructors league. Or remember the day they won the thing as one of the most enjoyable afternoon's entertainment of their lives.
It's not really a sport is it.
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Ceferin (president of UEFA) also stuck the boot into Agnelli (Juventus chairman), saying 'I have never seen a person lie so many times and as persistently as he did. Greed allows all human values to evaporate. We didn't know we had snakes working close to us, but now we know'.Redmidland said:UEFA President sticking boot into Ed Woodward from Man Utd! This is going to be nasty without a doubt.
... and by the way, Ceferin is Godfather to Agnelli's daughter!7 - Sponsored links:
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I’ll keep this simple ... Regarding ManU, City, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea
kick the men’s teams out of English football
kick the women’s teams out of English football
kick the youth teams out of English football
kick their players out of the international football
Re-set English football with spending caps, proper budgets, competitiveness. Make it affordable for everyone, limit the amount of football on TV. Fuck Sky with their money, fuck BT Sport with their money
Let’s return to the way it was back in the day. Jumpers for goalposts, the Big Match, Gary Neville for PM
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If this Super League goes ahead with 15 of the 20 expected clubs never facing 'relegation'. Teams like Arsenal will just sit back and collect the money. No need to freshen up the team with purchases of players. How long will it be before we see a sixty year old goalkeeper?0
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Plus given the uproar about it, what 5 clubs in their right mind are going to sign up to play in the ESL for one year? To do so they'd have to forego the chance to play in the champions league for one season, knowing there's a strong chance they'll be dumped back out of the ESL the following year, and then the champions league will say 'no thanks' to them.Algarveaddick said:
This is what I said in my post:WSS said:And what happens if one of the five "invited" clubs ends up winning the thing or even just getting in the Top 5/6?
"The format is a bit baffling with the idea of five other clubs “qualifying” each season. Where from? Based on what criteria? Who gets replaced each year – presumably the five that qualified the previous year, regardless of where they finish? So, you could see the four semi-finalists getting kicked out the following season if they are not among the fifteen founders? It is ridiculous beyond belief."
The whole concept of fifteen permanent members and five fluctuating ones is so baffling I can't understand why anyone is taking it seriously. You are a closed shop, or you are not, surely?
Teams will surely either have to be in the ESL all the time, or not at all. UEFA aren't just going to let teams dip in and out when they feel like it.3 -
Remember Katrien saying that our financial contribution to the club as fans {meaning customers} was minimal.
So now these owners treat football clubs like any other business and hunt the biggest market. And given the "legacy fans" contribute only 2% of income, they think -- why give them such consideration?
Football is the cultural lifeblood of this country. And every fan is sick of all this shit. We've been crying out for regulation for years, where is it?
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Basically wouldn't be particularly interesting at all until the knockout stage.Macronate said:Just looked at he format for the tournament and predict it will be the most boring sporting competition in the world.
You know, like the Champions League.
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Well yes the whole thing is absurd and not a competition at all, essentially if one of these upstart invitees dared to win the whole thing the founders could say well you've had your fun time for us to invite someone who won't upstage us next season and will be just glad to share a pitch with us. Let's face it it'll end up being random "big" clubs from around the world being invited probably based on fan base/number of instagram followers.Algarveaddick said:
They would earn less - fine Col, but how do they then relegate their champions? Either that happens or one of the founders goes and that flies in the face of the whole exercise.colthe3rd said:
I'm sure the only reason they have the 5 qualifying/invited clubs each year is to try and avoid the accusations of it being a closed shop and probably to try and skirt legal competition rules. There were details leaked a couple of months back that shows that if one of the qualifying clubs were to win the whole competition they'd earn less than a Barca or Real because of how the payments are structured which gives all the detail anyone needs if they weren't quite sure if there was some footballing merit behind this proposal.Algarveaddick said:
This is what I said in my post:WSS said:And what happens if one of the five "invited" clubs ends up winning the thing or even just getting in the Top 5/6?
"The format is a bit baffling with the idea of five other clubs “qualifying” each season. Where from? Based on what criteria? Who gets replaced each year – presumably the five that qualified the previous year, regardless of where they finish? So, you could see the four semi-finalists getting kicked out the following season if they are not among the fifteen founders? It is ridiculous beyond belief."
The whole concept of fifteen permanent members and five fluctuating ones is so baffling I can't understand why anyone is taking it seriously. You are a closed shop, or you are not, surely?1 -
The whole point of this is to enrich the owners, and given their background one of their first steps will be a salary cap limiting how much the players get. They need a way to siphon off moneyMeebaumAzanitch said:If this Super League goes ahead with 15 of the 20 expected clubs never facing 'relegation'. Teams like Arsenal will just sit back and collect the money. No need to freshen up the team with purchases of players. How long will it be before we see a sixty year old goalkeeper?1 - Sponsored links:
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Ceferin must stick to his guns on this. He's saying all the right things but he must enforce them if these clubs insist on pursuing this ESL crap. Same goes for all the other governing bodies. Dont concede an inch to the scumbag clubs.Covered End said:
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It'll never happen.colthe3rd said:
Well yes the whole thing is absurd and not a competition at all, essentially if one of these upstart invitees dared to win the whole thing the founders could say well you've had your fun time for us to invite someone who won't upstage us next season and will be just glad to share a pitch with us. Let's face it it'll end up being random "big" clubs from around the world being invited probably based on fan base/number of instagram followers.Algarveaddick said:
They would earn less - fine Col, but how do they then relegate their champions? Either that happens or one of the founders goes and that flies in the face of the whole exercise.colthe3rd said:
I'm sure the only reason they have the 5 qualifying/invited clubs each year is to try and avoid the accusations of it being a closed shop and probably to try and skirt legal competition rules. There were details leaked a couple of months back that shows that if one of the qualifying clubs were to win the whole competition they'd earn less than a Barca or Real because of how the payments are structured which gives all the detail anyone needs if they weren't quite sure if there was some footballing merit behind this proposal.Algarveaddick said:
This is what I said in my post:WSS said:And what happens if one of the five "invited" clubs ends up winning the thing or even just getting in the Top 5/6?
"The format is a bit baffling with the idea of five other clubs “qualifying” each season. Where from? Based on what criteria? Who gets replaced each year – presumably the five that qualified the previous year, regardless of where they finish? So, you could see the four semi-finalists getting kicked out the following season if they are not among the fifteen founders? It is ridiculous beyond belief."
The whole concept of fifteen permanent members and five fluctuating ones is so baffling I can't understand why anyone is taking it seriously. You are a closed shop, or you are not, surely?
BBC Text commentary of the Super League Final 2022 ...
85' Malmö 1 Real Madrid 0
86' Red card! Malmö down to 10 men! Hmm, on second viewing that looked harsh as the Malmö defender was at least 15 yards away from the Madrid midfielder when he fell to the ground clutching his face ...
88' Penalty to Real Madrid! It was a tight decision but the foul was just on the line ... of the centre circle ...
89' Penalty saved! Keeper went the right way ... oh, what's this? Apparently the keeper's nostril hairs were off the goal line and the referee's ordered a re-take ...
90' Penalty scored! Malmö 1 Real Madrid 1
90' The fourth official announces a minimum of 7 (seven) minutes of added time. We've only had two subs and one stoppage for the red card ...
90' + 26' That must surely be the winner for Madrid! Despite protestations from the Swedish defenders the deflection off the goal-line official who'd stepped a yard onto the pitch will count! Malmö 1 Real Madrid 2
90' + 27' Full time
In other words, much the same as happens in the Champions League now.13 -
"They'll be dancing in the streets of Saigon..."Briston_Addick said:
It'll never happen.colthe3rd said:
Well yes the whole thing is absurd and not a competition at all, essentially if one of these upstart invitees dared to win the whole thing the founders could say well you've had your fun time for us to invite someone who won't upstage us next season and will be just glad to share a pitch with us. Let's face it it'll end up being random "big" clubs from around the world being invited probably based on fan base/number of instagram followers.Algarveaddick said:
They would earn less - fine Col, but how do they then relegate their champions? Either that happens or one of the founders goes and that flies in the face of the whole exercise.colthe3rd said:
I'm sure the only reason they have the 5 qualifying/invited clubs each year is to try and avoid the accusations of it being a closed shop and probably to try and skirt legal competition rules. There were details leaked a couple of months back that shows that if one of the qualifying clubs were to win the whole competition they'd earn less than a Barca or Real because of how the payments are structured which gives all the detail anyone needs if they weren't quite sure if there was some footballing merit behind this proposal.Algarveaddick said:
This is what I said in my post:WSS said:And what happens if one of the five "invited" clubs ends up winning the thing or even just getting in the Top 5/6?
"The format is a bit baffling with the idea of five other clubs “qualifying” each season. Where from? Based on what criteria? Who gets replaced each year – presumably the five that qualified the previous year, regardless of where they finish? So, you could see the four semi-finalists getting kicked out the following season if they are not among the fifteen founders? It is ridiculous beyond belief."
The whole concept of fifteen permanent members and five fluctuating ones is so baffling I can't understand why anyone is taking it seriously. You are a closed shop, or you are not, surely?
BBC Text commentary of the Super League Final 2022 ...
85' Malmö 1 Real Madrid 0
86' Red card! Malmö down to 10 men! Hmm, on second viewing that looked harsh as the Malmö defender was at least 15 yards away from the Madrid midfielder when he fell to the ground clutching his face ...
88' Penalty to Real Madrid! It was a tight decision but the foul was just on the line ... of the centre circle ...
89' Penalty saved! Keeper went the right way ... oh, what's this? Apparently the keeper's nostril hairs were off the goal line and the referee's ordered a re-take ...
90' Penalty scored! Malmö 1 Real Madrid 1
90' The fourth official announces a minimum of 7 (seven) minutes of added time. We've only had two subs and one stoppage for the red card ...
90' + 26' That must surely be the winner for Madrid! Despite protestations from the Swedish defenders the deflection off the goal-line official who'd stepped a yard onto the pitch will count! Malmö 1 Real Madrid 2
90' + 27' Full time
In other words, much the same as happens in the Champions League now.13 -
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Wait til those 6 clubs find out they hadn’t been talking to each other and that it had actually been the Sheffield massive coordinating everything to try and avoid the points deduction relegating them this season...13
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That post by Bruno is the first one i've seen from a player in one of the proposed 15 speaking out against it1
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So, a question. Does anyone know whether the sordid six have started selling 2021/22 season tickets to their supporters?
If so, what exactly have they been selling? And did they know about this nefarious scheme at the time?
Any of the sordid six's supporters cannot know what they are buying, even now. Will they just be watching the "B" team, the U23s or in the event of a domestic ban, perhaps nothing at all?0 -
This is exactly why I said that the debate could go on for ages. Everyone will have a different take on it and just saying that someone else's idea is "bollox" ain't going to solve it. Like I said, it's just what one solution could be.shine166 said:
You don't relegate 2 from the championship and promote 6, there's just no relegations this year. 6 up from championship, 6 up from league 1 etc. Also, certainly don't adjust (change to 20) other leagues just to fit around this bollox.GoOnYouHaddocks said:If this did go ahead, I wonder how they would reorganise the remaining teams?
This is just me making it up, but one solution could be:
Prem: (20 teams): None relegated, six promoted from Championship.
Champ: (22 teams): Two relegated, six promoted from League 1.
Lge 1: (22 teams): Two relegated, six promoted from League 2.
Lge 2: (22 teams): Two relegated, six promoted from National League.
They could also change more divisions to 20 teams by reducing the number of promotions. I assume the debate would go on for ages.
One of the criticisms of the ESL is that it appears that it won't have relegations, so dropping all relegations from the English league (even for one season) wouldn't be a good look.
I happen to think that forty-six league games is too many and would prefer all leagues to change to twenty teams.
I've got my view and you've got yours. The only difference is that I'm right and you're wrong 😀.2 -
It is going to be interesting in terms of managers and players. There are still some options for players like Kane in other countries and he may reluctant to give up his England career. Klopp doesn't strike me as a manager who could go along with this and he could always return to Germany.
It may present more opportunities for home grown players to develop. I can see older players being attracted but this may undermine the ESL. Players will need massive inducements as there will be less options for their careers if clubs find better options. I would hope a player that signs a contract with a ESL club to be banned from other clubs for life, including as managers. It is more complicated for those already contracted as they would have done this before this development. Maybe they would have to give a commitment that they won't sign another.0
https://youtu.be/a56mReR91Bw
