Has Bowyer lost it?

FishCostaFortune said:

So if I'm correct the current state of play on behind the scenes dressing room harmony is that:

@Covered_End_Lad - has mentioned an incident where Bowyer reduced Williams to tears and other senior pros had to step in. 

@MuttleyCAFC - has mentioned that Bowyer is apparently wierd/unsupportive around the younger players.

@J-Block - was told by a player in the dressing room the Bowyer has lost the plot.

If these things are true. The two questions I have are:

Why was the dressing room apparently so great during our promotion year. What's happened to change that ethos.

If things are as bad behind the scenes as people are making out, why would it change under a new set of players, and indeed would good players would even want to come to us? 

We need a Matt Holland situation - where he allegedly went in to see the chairman at half time and said “we can’t play for that manager”. 

FishCostaFortune said:

So if I'm correct the current state of play on behind the scenes dressing room harmony is that:

@Covered_End_Lad - has mentioned an incident where Bowyer reduced Williams to tears and other senior pros had to step in. 

@MuttleyCAFC - has mentioned that Bowyer is apparently wierd/unsupportive around the younger players.

@J-Block - was told by a player in the dressing room the Bowyer has lost the plot.

If these things are true. The two questions I have are:

Why was the dressing room apparently so great during our promotion year. What's happened to change that ethos.

If things are as bad behind the scenes as people are making out, why would it change under a new set of players, and indeed would good players would even want to come to us? 

Bowyer has done a 180 from the man we saw in the promotion winning era. From his interviews, tactics, man management the list goes on, he has totally changed.  

J BLOCK said:

FishCostaFortune said:

So if I'm correct the current state of play on behind the scenes dressing room harmony is that:

@Covered_End_Lad - has mentioned an incident where Bowyer reduced Williams to tears and other senior pros had to step in. 

@MuttleyCAFC - has mentioned that Bowyer is apparently wierd/unsupportive around the younger players.

@J-Block - was told by a player in the dressing room the Bowyer has lost the plot.

If these things are true. The two questions I have are:

Why was the dressing room apparently so great during our promotion year. What's happened to change that ethos.

If things are as bad behind the scenes as people are making out, why would it change under a new set of players, and indeed would good players would even want to come to us? 

Bowyer has done a 180 from the man we saw in the promotion winning era. From his interviews, tactics, man management the list goes on, he has totally changed.  

Has he changed, or is it that he’s not a manager with a plan (or the temperament) for when things start going wrong?

Scoham said:

ricky_otto said:

RodneyCharltonTrotta said:

Exiled_Addick said:

One man's straight talking is another man's bullying. No idea what has gone on or what has been said to who, but we know Bowyer doesn't really sugar coat things, he speaks his mind, even in interviews, and he;s not really too bothered if it ruffles a few feathers. He's quite old school in that respect - entirely possible he's been giving what he probably feels are a few home s truths to players and some of them maybe don't appreciate the way the message is being delivered. Possibly a bit of a generational divide there too - it's a generalization, but people over a certain age always tend to think people under a certain age are a bit soft.

I don't believe Bowyer is a bully or is out to deliberately upset or belittle anyone, but entirely possible that he's too blunt for some people and that his manner has upset some.

Agreed.

A generational clash and different expectations of what is acceptable.

He's from the John Sitton era.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVj45yN72uU

Bring ya faakin dinner. 

Except Boyer would say “bring ya faakin McDonald’s”

Can’t quite work out what it is but something tells me Bowyer is more of a KFC man.

Don’t tell me he smashed up a KFC as well.

Uboat said:

If you want a perfect example of the selective blindness that loyalty causes, some posters are only just realising that Bowyer might not be a very nice person. 

Nailed it - I have noticed this as well. As I have mentioned before, this is the man who:

Banned for 8 weeks by Charlton for his drug habits. Only played 40 odd games before leaving but somehow his time is treated as a messiah 

Charged with affray, trashing a fast food restaurant and making racist remarks to the owner.

Once again caught up in an incident with (again) an Asian guy outside a nightclub which he got off with but begs the question why he got himself caught up in the first place.

Fought his own player on the pitch swinging punches left right and centre.

Now multiple rumours of bullying on the training ground.

‘One of our own’? Not in my book.

Powelly may not have been the greatest manager with us Hudders and Southend. But when someone says One of Our Own and Proper Charlton - step forward that man. Ten times classier than what we currently have.

https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/charlton-athletics-performances-have-collapsed-as-thomas-sandgaard-faces-first-big-call-as-owner/

Very different in tone to the "Bowyer needs more time" piece.

Still balanced though. 

JamesSeed said:

J BLOCK said:

FishCostaFortune said:

So if I'm correct the current state of play on behind the scenes dressing room harmony is that:

@Covered_End_Lad - has mentioned an incident where Bowyer reduced Williams to tears and other senior pros had to step in. 

@MuttleyCAFC - has mentioned that Bowyer is apparently wierd/unsupportive around the younger players.

@J-Block - was told by a player in the dressing room the Bowyer has lost the plot.

If these things are true. The two questions I have are:

Why was the dressing room apparently so great during our promotion year. What's happened to change that ethos.

If things are as bad behind the scenes as people are making out, why would it change under a new set of players, and indeed would good players would even want to come to us? 

Bowyer has done a 180 from the man we saw in the promotion winning era. From his interviews, tactics, man management the list goes on, he has totally changed.  

Has he changed, or is it that he’s not a manager with a plan (or the temperament) for when things start going wrong?

I have said previously that I thought that LB was lucky, as proven by the dozen or so players now plying their trade at Championship or higher, in our promotion year.

There had been an under current of reasons/blame for the situation we found ourselves in last season with the likes of Solly and Taylor being the ones at the head of that queue. That then progressed to the extent that he started to hold individuals responsible and accountable for defeats. I questioned the lambasting of Bonne immediately after the game but was told that this was just LB being honest and that the player needs to "grow some" if he didn't like it. This is what he said:

“You can say that’s cost us but Macauley [Bonne] has to score. You can’t keep missing chances like that. Three yards out. Connects with the ball properly and you score. Can’t miss chances like that. It ain’t good enough."

LB might have been right about that but you cannot say that in private let alone public because all it does is to reinforce the doubts a player might have about himself and it also demonstrates a fundamental lack of support from the manager. Do that then to at least a dozen individuals and all of a sudden you have lost the dressing room because those players have no way of responding on the same basis i.e. via the press.

Being a manager is the easiest job in the world when things are going well. Ask Klopp about that. What Klopp hasn't done, though, is hang his players out to dry. The only one that does it at the top level is Mourinho but then that is the reason why he has had nine jobs in 20 years - because he has short term success doing what he does. But he never builds a dynasty because when things go wrong he always blames certain players and then they stop playing for him.  

The Court of Charlton Life has found Lee Bowyer guilty of all charges.
Thankfully I am sure TS is too intelligent to act on he said she said gossip and will be fully conversant with all the facts.
What is without question is that something is seriously amiss and it looks like TS may be forced into a decision a lot sooner than he would have liked

Criticise his management, be concerned about bullying players but to suddenly realise that you never liked him doesn't ring true unless you were one of the few who was concerned about some of his history when he became our manager.

Lee, for March manager of the month, best bet of the  year

I used to love hearing Bows speak, I'd watch back interviews, sky plussed the training ground programme they done and rewatched a few times.

He was almost gushy about the players club, his ambitions but its been a slow decline since Swansea at home 2019 with nothing really new or inventive on the pitch. 

I dug him out a bit at half time of Sunderland game in October and said he needs to step up as a coach which got quite a few LOLs at the time. 

After that game we went on a 7 game run but I honestly felt we were poor bar Ipswich away.

I'd love nothing more than for us to win every game and make me look a dickhead but I just fear the players have downed tools. 

I'll still watch every game regardless but it's more out of scratching my head and praying we can't be worse than the last game. 

Garrymanilow said:

It's going to be interesting to see the number of people who now come out of the woodwork saying 'actually, I've always hated Lee Bowyer, he's always been a racist/thug/bully and I've never agreed with him being manager. I just didn't say anything much over the past 3 years because we were winning the football'. Bold stance bros.

I for one won't be one of those people. I wrote before against rewriting history to devalue his Wembley win as I thought and still think that was a huge achievement.

However, things have gone wrong and he's not coped in recent times. I don't know why exactly and I don't know whether Bowyer then or now is the "real" Lee Bowyer.

But I do know he's not capable of turning it around any more.

Garrymanilow said:

It's going to be interesting to see the number of people who now come out of the woodwork saying 'actually, I've always hated Lee Bowyer, he's always been a racist/thug/bully and I've never agreed with him being manager. I just didn't say anything much over the past 3 years because we were winning the football'. Bold stance bros.

3 posters in the previous page have already taken/begun to take this stance. Sadly can only see that increasing as it seems to be the thing to do these days as negativity spreads. 

Re the Williams story... ive heard something similar. Crying wasnt mentioned but i wouldnt be surprised

DamoNorthStand said:

Uboat said:

If you want a perfect example of the selective blindness that loyalty causes, some posters are only just realising that Bowyer might not be a very nice person. 

Nailed it - I have noticed this as well. As I have mentioned before, this is the man who:

Banned for 8 weeks by Charlton for his drug habits. Only played 40 odd games before leaving but somehow his time is treated as a messiah 

Charged with affray, trashing a fast food restaurant and making racist remarks to the owner.

Once again caught up in an incident with (again) an Asian guy outside a nightclub which he got off with but begs the question why he got himself caught up in the first place.

Fought his own player on the pitch swinging punches left right and centre.

Now multiple rumours of bullying on the training ground.

‘One of our own’? Not in my book.

Powelly may not have been the greatest manager with us Hudders and Southend. But when someone says One of Our Own and Proper Charlton - step forward that man. Ten times classier than what we currently have.

I never really understood the praise he gets when parker generally gets pelters but they both moved on to better things in similar situations. Parer played 3x as many games as Bowyer also.