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Has Bowyer lost it?
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Bowyer bingoaddick1956 said:
Next season ?shine166 said:Dodgy owners- check, embargo- check, not backed- check, late signings due to ownership- check.
Next season is shit or bust for Bowyer and there's no excuses.0 -
He needs to stick with the same team for a few games. Give players a run in the team. Plus play 4-4-2, or 3-5-2. Never been a fan of the diamond1
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Had time to think about it for a couple of days & my thoughts are this.
I'm not a fan of changing managers at the drop of a hat & I would agree with the sentiment that Bowyer deserves time after everything he has done for us. However,:
1. it looks to me like he has lost the dressing room
2. I'm also concerned that the job is affecting his mental state.
If either or both of these observations are correct, he needs to go now for the good of the club & himself. He's a good manager who will come again, but right now the squad needs a lift & I think he needs a break to refresh and recharge.
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I’ll probably be laughed out of the virtual town here, but my wacky theory of a few months ago still seems, imo, valid.The current downfall in results and manager/player relations started just after Bowyer’s disastrous one off stint as a match summariser on Skysports. Who’s to say that a few of the lads continually ribbed him for that performance and some of his comments, with Bowyer not seeing the funny side ?
Something has happened because you don’t have a manager with a mantra of “We’re on a journey together” to one repeatedly and publicly slagging off his players in a short space of time.Added to that, the loss of two very good centre backs of course.There, I told you it was wacky !!2 -
Its not that far fetched... Take Joey Barton and Ched Evans for example, seems it came out that Barton sacked Evans for some demeanor, but it seems it all started from Evans taking the piss out of Barton over something which Barton didnt see the funny side ofalan dugdale said:I’ll probably be laughed out of the virtual town here, but my wacky theory of a few months ago still seems, imo, valid.The current downfall in results and manager/player relations started just after Bowyer’s disastrous one off stint as a match summariser on Skysports. Who’s to say that a few of the lads continually ribbed him for that performance and some of his comments, with Bowyer not seeing the funny side ?
Something has happened because you don’t have a manager with a mantra of “We’re on a journey together” to one repeatedly and publicly slagging off his players in a short space of time.Added to that, the loss of two very good centre backs of course.There, I told you it was wacky !!1 -
Personality transplants required0
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Very true. There was one moment during his punditry where he kept repeating the same line. The presenter helped him out eventually.ForeverAddickted said:
Its not that far fetched... Take Joey Barton and Ched Evans for example, seems it came out that Barton sacked Evans for some demeanor, but it seems it all started from Evans taking the piss out of Barton over something which Barton didnt see the funny side ofalan dugdale said:I’ll probably be laughed out of the virtual town here, but my wacky theory of a few months ago still seems, imo, valid.The current downfall in results and manager/player relations started just after Bowyer’s disastrous one off stint as a match summariser on Skysports. Who’s to say that a few of the lads continually ribbed him for that performance and some of his comments, with Bowyer not seeing the funny side ?
Something has happened because you don’t have a manager with a mantra of “We’re on a journey together” to one repeatedly and publicly slagging off his players in a short space of time.Added to that, the loss of two very good centre backs of course.There, I told you it was wacky !!Can’t remember it exactly but was an MK Dons game. I’m sure we’d been on that 6 game run of not conceding at about that time and things were looking good.1 -
Yeah Sunderland v MK Dons... We then of course lost to the latter a few weeks lateralan dugdale said:
Very true. There was one moment during his punditry where he kept repeating the same line. The presenter helped him out eventually.ForeverAddickted said:
Its not that far fetched... Take Joey Barton and Ched Evans for example, seems it came out that Barton sacked Evans for some demeanor, but it seems it all started from Evans taking the piss out of Barton over something which Barton didnt see the funny side ofalan dugdale said:I’ll probably be laughed out of the virtual town here, but my wacky theory of a few months ago still seems, imo, valid.The current downfall in results and manager/player relations started just after Bowyer’s disastrous one off stint as a match summariser on Skysports. Who’s to say that a few of the lads continually ribbed him for that performance and some of his comments, with Bowyer not seeing the funny side ?
Something has happened because you don’t have a manager with a mantra of “We’re on a journey together” to one repeatedly and publicly slagging off his players in a short space of time.Added to that, the loss of two very good centre backs of course.There, I told you it was wacky !!Can’t remember it exactly but was an MK Dons game. I’m sure we’d been on that 6 game run of not conceding at about that time and things were looking good.
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What this psychotic man doesn't seem to realise as well is that sometimes you have to jump out of a tackle, if you're clearly getting there second and there'd be punishment or even injury from diving in9
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But so many of them aren’t, if it was one or two then you would say they are bad apples and we’d be able to cope by dropping them. But who is really playing to their maximum (or even average) capability at the moment? Amos probably - I’m really struggling to think of any others.Oggy Red said:
Of course, but players must play their part too.killerandflash said:
It's the manager's job to motivate the players, to get them playing to their maximum.Oggy Red said:
Yes, the question is not just about Bowyer, regardless of how he's conducting himself and his role.killerandflash said:
But his comments are as much aimed at the players as himselfRedChaser said:
Yes , here you go relevant extract from London News on line;killerandflash said:
Did Bowyer hold his hand up about the substitutions OR did he mainly just criticise the players who came on?LenGlover said:
I wonder how many times Bowyer has had that conversation privately with Maddison previously for him to be so direct in public.killerandflash said:I still feel it odd that the thing that wound Bowyer up most was Maddison jumping out of a tackle, as it didn't cost us anything as we were 2-0 down anyway
It's akin to publicly slagging off a batsman (say KP) for getting out to an aggressive shot for 15, when nobody else got more than 10.
It's a throwaway comment made out of exasperation and frustration rather than genuine malice in my view. He shouldn't have said it in public I suppose but not one of those players in that dressing room can be in any doubt now that the tepid shitshow they produced last night is unacceptable.
If we get a proper reaction from them and beat Rochdale to get the truck back on the tracks well done Lee. If we don't then it says more about the poor attitude of gutless players than Lee's poor management in my opinion.
The players have to take responsibility too. No manager could legislate for Pearce's cock up. I'm not intending to dig Pearce out because, like Bowyer, he has been here through most of the Roland et al shitshow and remains well in credit for me. Bowyer has held his hands up about getting his substitutions wrong last night. Pearce, as Club Captain, should have done the same privately at least in the dressing room. He may well have done so already and if so good lad.
All that said Accrington Stanley deserve some credit. They did a job on us and deserved their win.
‘Jonny Williams came on. Was he any better than any others? No. You’re bringing midfielders on and thinking ‘ come on, now give us that bit in the last 20, 30 minutes’. Chuks did. Chuks made a difference. The other two didn’t. If anything it made us weaker. And I have to take the blame for that. I brought on subs to try and make us better and it made us weaker. But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say: “I gave everything’ then they are liars’ .
But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say: “I gave everything’ then they are liars’
It's also about the players, individually and collectively as a team.
They are professionals.
As a professional and who's career depends on their reputation, each one must ask himself, "did I give a committed and professional performance?"
Come on, mostly they are an experienced bunch who've been around the block one or three times.
They know the ropes.
And they know they are required to give a disciplined and committed performance.
That's the essence of being professional.The players aren’t off the hook here, we just can’t realistically sack 25 players in January. That’s why it’s traditionally the manager that gets the boot if a team isn’t doing well - and let’s be honest, apart from purple patches here and there, we haven’t been doing well since Wembley in May 2019.5 -
Why is it clear that he's "lost the dressing room"? Is it just because he's gone ott with publicly slagging individual players off, or are there other reasons?1
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The OTT comments, certain reported comments from players (via posters on here), the general malaise and lack of effort all suggest that things aren't rosy.i_b_b_o_r_g said:Why is it clear that he's "lost the dressing room"? Is it just because he's gone ott with publicly slagging individual players off, or are there other reasons?
The constant changes to team/formation aren't things that suggest a good solid team spirit either, nor is the poor streak of form.
Even if that doesn't mean he has lost the dressing room/team it's really not a massive logical leap.0 -
He stuck with us and has had to rebuild a squad 3 times since his been here. Despite the season were having and tactics, he has credit in the bank with me. Id give him grace this season, even if we didn't go up. He'd have the summer to clear out and rebuild a squad of players HE WANTS and then I'd judge him then. I personally feel that all round that is fair to everyone.5
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To be fair to those who are against Bowyer now... this is the team that he wantedCAFCDAZ said:He stuck with us and has had to rebuild a squad 3 times since his been here. Despite the season were having and tactics, he has credit in the bank with me. Id give him grace this season, even if we didn't go up. He'd have the summer to clear out and rebuild a squad of players HE WANTS and then I'd judge him then. I personally feel that all round that is fair to everyone.
Of course there were players we missed out on like Clarke-Harris and have been hindered by the Salary Cap hence signings like Bogle but especially with the Salary Cap in place I hope he's not signed someone just for the sake of having a player fill a required position.
What he does need though is the opportunity to build a team and potentially each year chop and change where things arent working - Its a very loose example but take Alex Ferguson @ Man Utd for example, he didnt go in there and win titles from the beginning, he took a few years to build the right team and once he got it, they were unstoppable - The fact that Bowyer is making us competitive when he's building a new squad each season is a credit to him and feels a bit forgotten when it shouldnt have to happen, same respect to Gallen3 -
For every Alex Ferguson there are about 100,000 managers that aren’t Alex Ferguson. Because one manager with a different skill set, at a different club, in a different era, under different circumstances did well is absolutely not argument to stick with a manager where none of those circumstances exist.4
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My point is even the best of Managers cant keep rebuilding a team from virtually scratch every year and for there to be success every timese9addick said:For every Alex Ferguson there are about 100,000 managers that aren’t Alex Ferguson. Because one manager with a different skill set, at a different club, in a different era, under different circumstances did well is absolutely not argument to stick with a manager where none of those circumstances exist.
Eventually its going to get to the point where they'll fail because they're not a miracle worker
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Having to rebuild time and time again doesn't help. The thing that concerns me is the lack of a gameplan, or strategy of how to move through the thirds, break the press etc. As other teams have shown us, with those in place you can do a lot with an even more limited squad.2
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I like Bowyer and don't want him to leave at all... but even our performances at the start of the season when we were winning weren't great4
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Its another reason why I'm loath to bemoan Bowyer with the run we're inAddickhead86 said:Having to rebuild time and time again doesn't help. The thing that concerns me is the lack of a gameplan, or strategy of how to move through the thirds, break the press etc. As other teams have shown us, with those in place you can do a lot with an even more limited squad.
We're effectively down to our last four Midfielders - Unfortunately with Williams we've seen him jump out of a challenge of late as I imagine Bowyer now has doubts over whether he'll do it again - Partly what worries me is we'll get rid of Bowyer, Shinnie | Watson | Pratley etc. will come back into the team, we'll start winning again because the team has that bite back and everyone will be: See we were right to get rid of Bowyer!!0 - Sponsored links:
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Have Gunter ,Maatsen , Gilbey, Maddison etc improved or gone backward since joining us .
It’s clear the team are underperforming, we can still lose and play ok as we did the other night but they’re not at it and I’d say it’s down to tactics and faith has been lost with the management .
Things do change and to me it clearly has and that was before the friend of a friend message had come through .
He’s lost the dressing room for whatever reason(s) and we are not good enough for the players we have0 -
Agree with you there. It's very difficult and overall, both him and Gallen have done a good job. Even this season on paper the signings have been decent, they're just not playing well at the moment.ForeverAddickted said:
My point is even the best of Managers cant keep rebuilding a team from virtually scratch every year and for there to be success every timese9addick said:For every Alex Ferguson there are about 100,000 managers that aren’t Alex Ferguson. Because one manager with a different skill set, at a different club, in a different era, under different circumstances did well is absolutely not argument to stick with a manager where none of those circumstances exist.
Eventually its going to get to the point where they'll fail because they're not a miracle worker2 -
I still have concerns about the direction we may be heading in, but I’ll be ready to get behind him and the team again on Tuesday. I’ve now watched the full 3 or so minutes of the post match interview and it seems to me he wants to make it right
Whether or not he can will be the test. I do worry a bit about the eulogizing of the Pratley’s and Watson’s of this world. Yes, we need that commitment, but we also need a way of letting players with more creativity flourish
let’s all get behind Bow and the team again for Tues, I’m sure we will.1 -
What’s the “friend of a friend message” all about @oohaahmortimer ? Seem to have missed that.oohaahmortimer said:Have Gunter ,Maatsen , Gilbey, Maddison etc improved or gone backward since joining us .
It’s clear the team are underperforming, we can still lose and play ok as we did the other night but they’re not at it and I’d say it’s down to tactics and faith has been lost with the management .
Things do change and to me it clearly has and that was before the friend of a friend message had come through .
He’s lost the dressing room for whatever reason(s) and we are not good enough for the players we have1 -
oohaahmortimer said:
Have heard from a friend of a friend who’s done some work for a senior player similar to what J BLOCK has said , no reason to not believe it so on that basis , he’s lost the dressing room and he should goJ BLOCK said:I go back to my comment after the Shrewsbury game. I heard a starting player last night say “Bowyer has fucking lost it”. He also said we never work tactics.
All of which is evident, tactically we’re so poor, no cohesion in that team and midfield run ragged every week.I love you Bow, but it’s time now
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I don’t think that’s in doubt. Best case scenario here is that Charlton turn it round, starting Tuesday, and romp our way to promotion.cabbles said:I still have concerns about the direction we may be heading in, but I’ll be ready to get behind him and the team again on Tuesday. I’ve now watched the full 3 or so minutes of the post match interview and it seems to me he wants to make it right
Whether or not he can will be the test. I do worry a bit about the eulogizing of the Pratley’s and Watson’s of this world. Yes, we need that commitment, but we also need a way of letting players with more creativity flourish
let’s all get behind Bow and the team again for Tues, I’m sure we will.1 -
In Lee's defense Pratley is fine playing in the midfield, it's when he's in defense we notice his mistakes, in midfield he's a bit slow but he certainly offers more than Albie, JFC and Gilbey I would say, I think Watson has been fine for us, if he had some actual quality around him he would show us what he's about. Even Busquets would look like an average player in this team.cabbles said:I still have concerns about the direction we may be heading in, but I’ll be ready to get behind him and the team again on Tuesday. I’ve now watched the full 3 or so minutes of the post match interview and it seems to me he wants to make it right
Whether or not he can will be the test. I do worry a bit about the eulogizing of the Pratley’s and Watson’s of this world. Yes, we need that commitment, but we also need a way of letting players with more creativity flourish
let’s all get behind Bow and the team again for Tues, I’m sure we will.
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I didn't see the game & haven't had the time to read the post match comments, for those who saw it do you think Maddison was right to pull out of the tackle or is Bowyer right to have a go at him just not in public ?Leuth said:What this psychotic man doesn't seem to realise as well is that sometimes you have to jump out of a tackle, if you're clearly getting there second and there'd be punishment or even injury from diving in0 -
Whatever is next, one thing I believe Bowyer has to resist is giving out public criticism.
It was the fans against MKD, then it was Williams, and now Maddison.
Even if Bowyer is right every time it isn't helpful.2 -
Can someone remind me what Bowyer said about the fans after MKD0
This discussion has been closed.
