Not been convinced with him since he took over. Promotion season was scratchy at best, but we managed to go up through the play-offs and all of a sudden, he was the messiah that could do no wrong. Despite all the financial restraints, we were managing to hang onto staying in the championship, but after the lockdown, we just seemed to collapse and gave up without a fight. Really been underwhelmed with our performances this season and this includes the unbeaten run we had. I know that not having fans in the stadiums will affect the atmosphere and maybe the tempo of the game, (as players thrive on having a crowd behind them) but I've yet to see a single game this season that has had me on the edge of my seat. Quite simply the dullest football I've ever watched from a Charlton team. I don't get the "He was loyal to us in the summer, so we should repay that" rubbish. Despite whispers of the likes of Birmingham being interested, I don't recall anyone actually testing his loyalty with an offer. After the shambles of a selection he made against Hull, I was half expecting to see Amos in midfield this time around. Tactically clueless and piss poor man management.
I always seem to turn my thinking around to 'that's just the Bowyer way of management', but breaking it down - as VG says, you simply don't need him outing you in the media. We have not put together a traditional squad that have performed together, they are individuals and as such LB needs to manage them individually to get their performance levels.
Putting yourself in the heads of players it doesn't sit well. Every time I receive a slightly off pass that I may need to dive in for my thought shouldn't be 'I HAVE to go in for this or I can never play for this Club again' it should be a quick judgement of risk/reward. I completely agree you should have the intention of going in for tackles; but as a rule of thumb not a strict rule. Makes sense why we have so many injuries.
It also sets dangerous precedent of us looking like the management of loan players, potential signings etc. is not a good one.
I feel like TS needs to keep backing LB as he has done, as he can't snap to a vote of distrust however I think a look at the management style may be a fit. We need an identity and that needs a lot of work, is that identity one where a player is prepared to be slammed publicly?
I think this season will run away from us soon. Any competent well drilled side can beat us by exploiting us, playing between the lines and pushing our midfielders into places they shouldn't be (doesn't take much doing).
Hopefully next step forward is getting Aneke fit enough to play 90mins, the guy is quality but how the hell can he still not manage 90mins!? Endless list of questions at the moment.
Slept on it and I really am torn. I'll say this much, it's scary how quick we seem to have turned on him. I understand the reasons why but it makes me feel uneasy. I don't like how he is openly speaking about players but be honest here, had we won last night and he said what he said about Maddison, the majority would be saying 'Fxxk him, he isn't playing for the team, was always a bad egg, not a Bowyer player' etc. Because we didn't get a result we do the opposite, a lot of this feels very knee jerk to me and is a result of having a new, potentially successful owner.
I ask what's the rush? We are miles and miles away from the prem, none of our players would make the step up imo to be anything more than bit part players in the champ, so why the hurry to have another poor season up there. It's all too thickle for my liking. The football has looked crap for ages imo, even when we had quality players we played some proper crap ball so why the outrage now. I watched us get turned over by Burton and fluke a 2-1 in our promotion season, got the result though so no one cared.
It's hard to even piece together all my thoughts tbh, so I'll try and break it down in brief points
- Our players simply aren't good, I'll stand by that, forget all this internationals and ex champ crap, they're bit part players for their country and ex champ for a reason
- we would be laughing at other clubs fans for this behaviour, he was a saint before TS arrived
- the players he is openly criticising we do ourselves, they aren't gonna be long term Charlton players, none of us would care if he was doing it behind closed doors but we were getting results.
Loads more to post but in summary I've reflected on it all and I am on Bowyers side. He has players that can't even play a 90 minute game, he has players that are a result of terrible previous ownership, there is no manager we could get in that could turn this around, no realistic options anyway, if he has lost the dressing room then so what? Would it be ok for a new man to come in and all of a sudden the players show more energy? Means the players are deliberately sabotaging the club. I hate seeing that. Why did players like Aribo, Bielik, Cullen, Grant, Taylor etc all speak well of Lee and left on good terms. Most of our players out yes, Bowyer out no
Sorry I haven't structured my post very well just a bit annoyed at it all
I have to add as well that Bower is way more Charlton than these players will ever be don't forget that, if you think the likes of Williams, Morgan, Maddison, Bogle care about us as a club like Bowyer does then you are very wrong. Give him the season, TS has a talk and LB should address the fans imo. He needs to probably apologise publically for the no noise comments cause I think that riled us up and the public shaming of players. This is a young manager learning his trade remember, his first job, he has shown at times he can get is playing when he puts out the players he believes in.
I think we need to show some loyalty otherwise we are no different from big club fans demanding results
Who would we get in though ? karel Freye? Jose Riga? Guy Luzon? Russel Slade? Bob Peters? Karl the Bin Dipper?
Who is out there that would come to a third division club and could do a better job with the current wage caps etc?
I say give Bow this transfer window and see where we are at seasons end.
I'd welcome Jose Riga back. Just seemed to keep things simple for the players (like Curbishley and Lawrence did) and seemed very calm.
But if LB is to continue, he just needs to make us as solid as he can and hope that Schwartz can nick us a goal here and there for a couple of much-needed 1-0's
I liked Jose, but he’s very tainted by association with Roland - no thanks.
I believe he left of his own accord once and was shockingly not given a new contract the first time. For me the best management manager we have had since Powell and shrewd on tactics
And isn't Lee tainted by association with Roland in that case
Jose Riga has worked for Roland multiple times at different clubs in different countries, and was manager during the interventionist Roland era. That’s very different scenario to Bowyer coming back to coach and then manage the team he came through the ranks when Roland was in his more “hands off” era.
Either way I have no idea what Riga is up to and very much doubt he is ever coming back to Charlton.
Disgraceful thing for Bowyer to say about a player. Will have lost him a lot of respect in the dressing room. Could even make it harder to sign players. His job security will always be about results though.
If anything, it’s a timely reminder to the players that he is the manager and if he thinks somebody isn’t pulling their weight he is going to let them know. If they can’t respect that then we probably don’t want them in the charlton dressing room, let alone in the pitch
Saying you don’t care if someone has sustained a serious injury really isn’t the same as telling someone they aren’t pulling their weight.
The squad was put together at short notice and it shows. Disjointed and when substitutions are made we looked worse. The players aren't giving 100% , players like Williams and Maddison are going through the motions. Look at Accrington last night , players of less ability than ours but with a great work ethic.
Ok some context here. Everyone knew what happened to Maddison was not a serious injury, I am pretty sure Bowyer would have had an idea of how Maddison felt. He rolled his ankle ffs, we all do it. That comment was a result of a player he is clearly not clicking with and venting. Extremely unprofessional yes but let's not act like it's that bad. Again if we were winning and he made that comment I can actually imagine the posts now 'bloody hell, Lord Lee doesn't like Madds does he *crying face*' we are taking that so extreme because we are doing poor.
We have no idea of what has happened between Maddison and Bowyer, the comment is not that bad. If he had gone off on a stretcher and was visibly in distress do you really believe Lee reacts like that? Lee clearly just doesn't like him and vented
Cmon we are better than this ffs, I am completely ok with people critisicing the football but that comment is being used to fuel an agenda
Disgraceful thing for Bowyer to say about a player. Will have lost him a lot of respect in the dressing room. Could even make it harder to sign players. His job security will always be about results though.
If anything, it’s a timely reminder to the players that he is the manager and if he thinks somebody isn’t pulling their weight he is going to let them know. If they can’t respect that then we probably don’t want them in the charlton dressing room, let alone in the pitch
Saying you don’t care if someone has sustained a serious injury really isn’t the same as telling someone they aren’t pulling their weight.
Very poor to come out with stuff like this, speaking without first engaging brain. It's heat of the moment stuff, when emotions are running high.
Bowyer really shouldn't agree to be interviewed immediately post match, especially if we've just lost and the red mist has descended. He does himself no favours .... and would benefit from heeding the example of his wise old mentor, Bobby Robson.
Jacko should be primed to step in, if Bowyer's seething and not thinking before he speaks.
Slept on it and I really am torn. I'll say this much, it's scary how quick we seem to have turned on him. I understand the reasons why but it makes me feel uneasy. I don't like how he is openly speaking about players but be honest here, had we won last night and he said what he said about Maddison, the majority would be saying 'Fxxk him, he isn't playing for the team, was always a bad egg, not a Bowyer player' etc. Because we didn't get a result we do the opposite, a lot of this feels very knee jerk to me and is a result of having a new, potentially successful owner.
I ask what's the rush? We are miles and miles away from the prem, none of our players would make the step up imo to be anything more than bit part players in the champ, so why the hurry to have another poor season up there. It's all too thickle for my liking. The football has looked crap for ages imo, even when we had quality players we played some proper crap ball so why the outrage now. I watched us get turned over by Burton and fluke a 2-1 in our promotion season, got the result though so no one cared.
It's hard to even piece together all my thoughts tbh, so I'll try and break it down in brief points
- Our players simply aren't good, I'll stand by that, forget all this internationals and ex champ crap, they're bit part players for their country and ex champ for a reason
- we would be laughing at other clubs fans for this behaviour, he was a saint before TS arrived
- the players he is openly criticising we do ourselves, they aren't gonna be long term Charlton players, none of us would care if he was doing it behind closed doors but we were getting results.
Loads more to post but in summary I've reflected on it all and I am on Bowyers side. He has players that can't even play a 90 minute game, he has players that are a result of terrible previous ownership, there is no manager we could get in that could turn this around, no realistic options anyway, if he has lost the dressing room then so what? Would it be ok for a new man to come in and all of a sudden the players show more energy? Means the players are deliberately sabotaging the club. I hate seeing that. Why did players like Aribo, Bielik, Cullen, Grant, Taylor etc all speak well of Lee and left on good terms. Most of our players out yes, Bowyer out no
Sorry I haven't structured my post very well just a bit annoyed at it all
But Bowyer now isn't acting the same way as he did, basically before ESI arrived. The public criticism of players started last summer, with the likes of Bonne and Morgan. If Aribo and Bielik had been publicly criticised maybe they wouldn't have left on such good terms
And it's not as if the disgruntlement has started all of a sudden, for a couple of months now we've been playing poor football AND getting poor results in a league where, even with the shambles of the last few years, we're still a big fish. If the players are demotivated and don't seem to know what they're doing, some of the blame has to go to the manager.
Bowyer is the best manager by far that we have had in a very long time not least because he says it as it is and yes he is correct to publicly criticise players because if he didn’t they may still think with their fragile egos that all is okay. We don’t want fragile egos in this club; we want hard-working solid tough people of integrity who will do an honest days work. i’m not interested in players who come here to show how wonderful they are. I want players who want Charlton to be promoted and that is all
You can get the hardest working and commited players out there, but if you want to play silly buggers and play them all out of position, you have no chance. He's the best manager we've had since Robinson
Slept on it and I really am torn. I'll say this much, it's scary how quick we seem to have turned on him. I understand the reasons why but it makes me feel uneasy. I don't like how he is openly speaking about players but be honest here, had we won last night and he said what he said about Maddison, the majority would be saying 'Fxxk him, he isn't playing for the team, was always a bad egg, not a Bowyer player' etc. Because we didn't get a result we do the opposite, a lot of this feels very knee jerk to me and is a result of having a new, potentially successful owner.
I ask what's the rush? We are miles and miles away from the prem, none of our players would make the step up imo to be anything more than bit part players in the champ, so why the hurry to have another poor season up there. It's all too thickle for my liking. The football has looked crap for ages imo, even when we had quality players we played some proper crap ball so why the outrage now. I watched us get turned over by Burton and fluke a 2-1 in our promotion season, got the result though so no one cared.
It's hard to even piece together all my thoughts tbh, so I'll try and break it down in brief points
- Our players simply aren't good, I'll stand by that, forget all this internationals and ex champ crap, they're bit part players for their country and ex champ for a reason
- we would be laughing at other clubs fans for this behaviour, he was a saint before TS arrived
- the players he is openly criticising we do ourselves, they aren't gonna be long term Charlton players, none of us would care if he was doing it behind closed doors but we were getting results.
Loads more to post but in summary I've reflected on it all and I am on Bowyers side. He has players that can't even play a 90 minute game, he has players that are a result of terrible previous ownership, there is no manager we could get in that could turn this around, no realistic options anyway, if he has lost the dressing room then so what? Would it be ok for a new man to come in and all of a sudden the players show more energy? Means the players are deliberately sabotaging the club. I hate seeing that. Why did players like Aribo, Bielik, Cullen, Grant, Taylor etc all speak well of Lee and left on good terms. Most of our players out yes, Bowyer out no
Sorry I haven't structured my post very well just a bit annoyed at it all
But Bowyer now isn't acting the same way as he did, basically before ESI arrived. The public criticism of players started last summer, with the likes of Bonne and Morgan. If Aribo and Bielik had been publicly criticised maybe they wouldn't have left on such good terms
And it's not as if the disgruntlement has started all of a sudden, for a couple of months now we've been playing poor football AND getting poor results in a league where, even with the shambles of the last few years, we're still a big fish. If the players are demotivated and don't seem to know what they're doing, some of the blame has to go to the manager.
I get what you're saying but it's hard to criticise players who are actually good? Hardly anyone thought Bonne was good, he is now doing rubbish at QPR and our fans have throw pelters at him on social media. Albie is overrated, I don't agree with publically slandering him but he's not really improving. Being honest I don't care if Bowyer calls a player crap, as long as it's behind closed doors. There job is to perform, if they aren't then what is he supposed to say? If he didn't criticize them we would accuse him of being too matey like some of us did Robinson
I'll make it clear I know Bowyer is to blame, I have some doubts about him as a manager now, but those same doubts I have had about plenty of previous successful managers in my lifetime, overly defensive, Powell and Curbs both did it. There are premier League managers doing it. I think it's something he can learn to move away from though as he starts to trust his players more and has players that don't need to be taken off for fitness issues.
Just imagine if we were in an auto slot and Sheffield Wednesday came in for him and he left, we would be calling him Judas and every name under the sun. We sit 7th with 78 points to play for, a transfer window and in a very inconsistent league. Sitting 7th isn't ideal but if we didn't have TS no one would care, we are being mini glory hunters of sorts
I am not saying settle for mediocrity here but he definitely deserve this season at a minimum, I hate the idea of us being a club that throw away a manager for blips
There are some people on here touting the line that our players just are not putting the effort in and they are not good enough for this league. Surely our management has to take some responsibility for that if it's true. As a manager it is your job to ensure that the team you manage are ready to perform. There seems to be some favourites that can do no wrong and others that get pelters for not alot. What would have been said if MM had petulantly kicked out at a player and got a 3 match suspension ? We have players being verbally abused whilst others are heralded as so important the team cant perform when they are not in it. If anyone expects any of those players that have been singled out to put a shift in then you are deluded. If I was one once our CB's I would be thinking "go on then keep leaving me out and play an ageing midfielder in my place"
For me it isnt the recent results that have been the gripe. All teams go through bad spells results wise. The biggest problem is the totally bizarre team selections and the derision of certain players. Add on that the total refusal to accept any responsibility following such poor performances is a sign of very poor management skills. I know it is not possible but the best thing that could happen now would be for Lee to go spend a couple of weeks fishing and clear his head. I'm sure he would come back a very different person in terms of how he approaches the team
I’m convinced Bowyer will be our manager for at least until the end of the season. I don’t believe Sandgaard is a knee jerk reaction owner. Replacing Bowyer right now would be just that a knee jerk reaction. Dreadful run of results but there’s not a manager alive who hasn’t had that. The good ones turn it around and we know Lee can be a good manager. I think he was wrong to call out players in the media and I hope he knows it too. Promotion this season what with the shenanigans prior to TS was always more unlikely than not. How the manager and the players work it out between now and seasons end will determine if we start next season with a new team in charge. I hope and suspect the cap will be gone next season. Sandgaard will need to feel confident his manager can spend a warchest to best effect. Big couple of months for LB now.
I believe that with the appointments "behind the scenes," (most pertinent to Bowyer being Roddy) that TS is attempting a full nuts and bolts ground upwards rebuild.
On that basis I don't expect him to get rid of Bowyer this season. It's not necessarily a "free hit", more that at this point the first 11 results are seen more as a symptom than a root cause of anything. This season has not been written off entirely but the real work starts once the whole club is a Sandgaard operation/project entirely (hence him remaining the sole director.)
On the other hand, I would be very surprised if he doesn't have a word with Bowyer at some point to discuss exactly what he's expecting, including on the pitch. It could be that it's more things like the comments that seal Bowyer's fate than results if it does come to that.
I personally really want Bowyer to turn it around but I can't hand on heart say I expect him to. There really is a question of whether him staying on is doing ANYONE any favours - himself included.
Who would we get in though ? karel Freye? Jose Riga? Guy Luzon? Russel Slade? Bob Peters? Karl the Bin Dipper?
Who is out there that would come to a third division club and could do a better job with the current wage caps etc?
I say give Bow this transfer window and see where we are at seasons end.
I'd welcome Jose Riga back. Just seemed to keep things simple for the players (like Curbishley and Lawrence did) and seemed very calm.
But if LB is to continue, he just needs to make us as solid as he can and hope that Schwartz can nick us a goal here and there for a couple of much-needed 1-0's
I liked Jose, but he’s very tainted by association with Roland - no thanks.
I believe he left of his own accord once and was shockingly not given a new contract the first time. For me the best management manager we have had since Powell and shrewd on tactics
And isn't Lee tainted by association with Roland in that case
Jose Riga has worked for Roland multiple times at different clubs in different countries, and was manager during the interventionist Roland era. That’s very different scenario to Bowyer coming back to coach and then manage the team he came through the ranks when Roland was in his more “hands off” era.
Either way I have no idea what Riga is up to and very much doubt he is ever coming back to Charlton.
On Riga I believe you are right. On Bowyer he must be tainted by association if Riga is. He is after all a manager appointed by Roland as was Riga. It can't be any other way . Personally I thinknneiter are tainted by that. One saved us from relegation one time. The other got us promoted. Both eventually suffered relegation once.
Cool, I see a difference between Riga’s relationship with Duchatelet & Bowyer’s - if you don’t then it’s all good, all opinions are valid.
The squad was put together at short notice and it shows. Disjointed and when substitutions are made we looked worse. The players aren't giving 100% , players like Williams and Maddison are going through the motions. Look at Accrington last night , players of less ability than ours but with a great work ethic.
So who's job is it to instill work ethic and set the team up? Several times over the last few weeks our players have been all over the shop leaving huge chasms in either midfield or defence.
Bizarre team selections and a string of poor performances hardly fill anyone with confidence. LB doesn't inspire confidence with his interviews - he comes across as someone is struggling.
If TS leaves him in charge if he doesn't make the playoffs then he will struggle to get any backing. Whatever the limitations of our squad it should be up to making the top 6.
Interesting to see who he fields against Rochdale. We need to keep a clean sheet.
Bizarre team selections and a string of poor performances hardly fill anyone with confidence. LB doesn't inspire confidence with his interviews - he comes across as someone is struggling.
If TS leaves him in charge if he doesn't make the playoffs then he will struggle to get any backing. Whatever the limitations of our squad it should be up to making the top 6.
Interesting to see who he fields against Rochdale. We need to keep a clean sheet.
At this moment in time I'd go full out Curbs with Tuesday night...
Put out a proper defensive team, even if we draw 0-0, feel a clean sheet would be just as much of a confidence boost for the players as a win would be
Bizarre team selections and a string of poor performances hardly fill anyone with confidence. LB doesn't inspire confidence with his interviews - he comes across as someone is struggling.
If TS leaves him in charge if he doesn't make the playoffs then he will struggle to get any backing. Whatever the limitations of our squad it should be up to making the top 6.
Interesting to see who he fields against Rochdale. We need to keep a clean sheet.
At this moment in time I'd go full out Curbs with Tuesday night...
Put out a proper defensive team, even if we draw 0-0, feel a clean sheet would be just as much of a confidence boost for the players as a win would be
We looked really poor at the back last night and I'm not clear who will start Tuesday. Pearce looked out of sorts and Oshilaja looks like he has a mistake in him.
We need to concentrate and not to ship an early goal. Happy with a 0-0 or a narrow win.
Bizarre team selections and a string of poor performances hardly fill anyone with confidence. LB doesn't inspire confidence with his interviews - he comes across as someone is struggling.
If TS leaves him in charge if he doesn't make the playoffs then he will struggle to get any backing. Whatever the limitations of our squad it should be up to making the top 6.
Interesting to see who he fields against Rochdale. We need to keep a clean sheet.
At this moment in time I'd go full out Curbs with Tuesday night...
Put out a proper defensive team, even if we draw 0-0, feel a clean sheet would be just as much of a confidence boost for the players as a win would be
We looked really poor at the back last night and I'm not clear who will start Tuesday. Pearce looked out of sorts and Oshilaja looks like he has a mistake in him.
We need to concentrate and not to ship an early goal. Happy with a 0-0 or a narrow win.
Can't afford to keep giving the ball away
I'd be tempted to go five at the back (Matthews | Gunter | Oshilaja | Pearce | Maatsen), nor would I even bother using Wing-Backs - Just go flat back five rather than a back three
Have Forster-Caskey and Gilbey ahead of them, Miller between Midfield and Attack and then Smyth | Aneke up top, means we've then got a targetman and two quick players to cause problems
its not a pretty line up, nor am I sure how I feel about Gilbey playing that role now but there isnt anyone else especially no one that Bowyer will think wont jump out of a tackle, even he's questionable
Slept on it and I really am torn. I'll say this much, it's scary how quick we seem to have turned on him. I understand the reasons why but it makes me feel uneasy. I don't like how he is openly speaking about players but be honest here, had we won last night and he said what he said about Maddison, the majority would be saying 'Fxxk him, he isn't playing for the team, was always a bad egg, not a Bowyer player' etc. Because we didn't get a result we do the opposite, a lot of this feels very knee jerk to me and is a result of having a new, potentially successful owner.
I ask what's the rush? We are miles and miles away from the prem, none of our players would make the step up imo to be anything more than bit part players in the champ, so why the hurry to have another poor season up there. It's all too thickle for my liking. The football has looked crap for ages imo, even when we had quality players we played some proper crap ball so why the outrage now. I watched us get turned over by Burton and fluke a 2-1 in our promotion season, got the result though so no one cared.
It's hard to even piece together all my thoughts tbh, so I'll try and break it down in brief points
- Our players simply aren't good, I'll stand by that, forget all this internationals and ex champ crap, they're bit part players for their country and ex champ for a reason
- we would be laughing at other clubs fans for this behaviour, he was a saint before TS arrived
- the players he is openly criticising we do ourselves, they aren't gonna be long term Charlton players, none of us would care if he was doing it behind closed doors but we were getting results.
Loads more to post but in summary I've reflected on it all and I am on Bowyers side. He has players that can't even play a 90 minute game, he has players that are a result of terrible previous ownership, there is no manager we could get in that could turn this around, no realistic options anyway, if he has lost the dressing room then so what? Would it be ok for a new man to come in and all of a sudden the players show more energy? Means the players are deliberately sabotaging the club. I hate seeing that. Why did players like Aribo, Bielik, Cullen, Grant, Taylor etc all speak well of Lee and left on good terms. Most of our players out yes, Bowyer out no
Sorry I haven't structured my post very well just a bit annoyed at it all
But Bowyer now isn't acting the same way as he did, basically before ESI arrived. The public criticism of players started last summer, with the likes of Bonne and Morgan. If Aribo and Bielik had been publicly criticised maybe they wouldn't have left on such good terms
And it's not as if the disgruntlement has started all of a sudden, for a couple of months now we've been playing poor football AND getting poor results in a league where, even with the shambles of the last few years, we're still a big fish. If the players are demotivated and don't seem to know what they're doing, some of the blame has to go to the manager.
I get what you're saying but it's hard to criticise players who are actually good? Hardly anyone thought Bonne was good, he is now doing rubbish at QPR and our fans have throw pelters at him on social media. Albie is overrated, I don't agree with publically slandering him but he's not really improving. Being honest I don't care if Bowyer calls a player crap, as long as it's behind closed doors. There job is to perform, if they aren't then what is he supposed to say? If he didn't criticize them we would accuse him of being too matey like some of us did Robinson
I'll make it clear I know Bowyer is to blame, I have some doubts about him as a manager now, but those same doubts I have had about plenty of previous successful managers in my lifetime, overly defensive, Powell and Curbs both did it. There are premier League managers doing it. I think it's something he can learn to move away from though as he starts to trust his players more and has players that don't need to be taken off for fitness issues.
Just imagine if we were in an auto slot and Sheffield Wednesday came in for him and he left, we would be calling him Judas and every name under the sun. We sit 7th with 78 points to play for, a transfer window and in a very inconsistent league. Sitting 7th isn't ideal but if we didn't have TS no one would care, we are being mini glory hunters of sorts
I am not saying settle for mediocrity here but he definitely deserve this season at a minimum, I hate the idea of us being a club that throw away a manager for blips
Fans are entitled to say what they like about their players, but managers have to be much more careful
Last season we had 9 games to keep us up and Bonne was our striker whether Bowyer liked it or not. It's not Fantasy football where you swap out a non performing player and bring in Vardy instead, he was all we had.
And no a manager shouldn't be telling a player he's crap, because that's not something the player can change, and all it's likely do is dent their confidence. You don't bollock players into becoming better, anymore than you can bollock dentists or carpenters into being better
I don't think it is fair saying JJ is a yes man. A good assistant supports the manager. If the manager seeks help and opinions, he asks for them. An assistant can't force them on him. We know that Bowyer hasn't even taken advice from Curbs!
Bizarre team selections and a string of poor performances hardly fill anyone with confidence. LB doesn't inspire confidence with his interviews - he comes across as someone is struggling.
If TS leaves him in charge if he doesn't make the playoffs then he will struggle to get any backing. Whatever the limitations of our squad it should be up to making the top 6.
Interesting to see who he fields against Rochdale. We need to keep a clean sheet.
At this moment in time I'd go full out Curbs with Tuesday night...
Put out a proper defensive team, even if we draw 0-0, feel a clean sheet would be just as much of a confidence boost for the players as a win would be
We looked really poor at the back last night and I'm not clear who will start Tuesday. Pearce looked out of sorts and Oshilaja looks like he has a mistake in him.
We need to concentrate and not to ship an early goal. Happy with a 0-0 or a narrow win.
Can't afford to keep giving the ball away
Shows where we are “Happy with 0-0 home to Rochdale” 4th bottom and conceded 13 in their last 5 games. Let’s not build up any expectations here.
Bizarre team selections and a string of poor performances hardly fill anyone with confidence. LB doesn't inspire confidence with his interviews - he comes across as someone is struggling.
If TS leaves him in charge if he doesn't make the playoffs then he will struggle to get any backing. Whatever the limitations of our squad it should be up to making the top 6.
Interesting to see who he fields against Rochdale. We need to keep a clean sheet.
At this moment in time I'd go full out Curbs with Tuesday night...
Put out a proper defensive team, even if we draw 0-0, feel a clean sheet would be just as much of a confidence boost for the players as a win would be
We looked really poor at the back last night and I'm not clear who will start Tuesday. Pearce looked out of sorts and Oshilaja looks like he has a mistake in him.
We need to concentrate and not to ship an early goal. Happy with a 0-0 or a narrow win.
Can't afford to keep giving the ball away
Shows where we are “Happy with 0-0 home to Rochdale” 4th bottom and conceded 13 in their last 5 games. Let’s not build up any expectations here.
Its not about being happy with 0-0 against anyone
Its just about stopping the rot and being able to build a base of form from something, ANYTHING!!
How many times did we see that approach from Curbs where he'd go defensive just to stop a run of bad form
Who would we get in though ? karel Freye? Jose Riga? Guy Luzon? Russel Slade? Bob Peters? Karl the Bin Dipper?
Who is out there that would come to a third division club and could do a better job with the current wage caps etc?
I say give Bow this transfer window and see where we are at seasons end.
I'd welcome Jose Riga back. Just seemed to keep things simple for the players (like Curbishley and Lawrence did) and seemed very calm.
But if LB is to continue, he just needs to make us as solid as he can and hope that Schwartz can nick us a goal here and there for a couple of much-needed 1-0's
I liked Jose, but he’s very tainted by association with Roland - no thanks.
I believe he left of his own accord once and was shockingly not given a new contract the first time. For me the best management manager we have had since Powell and shrewd on tactics
And isn't Lee tainted by association with Roland in that case
Jose Riga has worked for Roland multiple times at different clubs in different countries, and was manager during the interventionist Roland era. That’s very different scenario to Bowyer coming back to coach and then manage the team he came through the ranks when Roland was in his more “hands off” era.
Either way I have no idea what Riga is up to and very much doubt he is ever coming back to Charlton.
On Riga I believe you are right. On Bowyer he must be tainted by association if Riga is. He is after all a manager appointed by Roland as was Riga. It can't be any other way . Personally I thinknneiter are tainted by that. One saved us from relegation one time. The other got us promoted. Both eventually suffered relegation once.
Cool, I see a difference between Riga’s relationship with Duchatelet & Bowyer’s - if you don’t then it’s all good, all opinions are valid.
Except your opinion doesn't match the facts. Both must be tainted by Roland or neither is.
Comments
Putting yourself in the heads of players it doesn't sit well. Every time I receive a slightly off pass that I may need to dive in for my thought shouldn't be 'I HAVE to go in for this or I can never play for this Club again' it should be a quick judgement of risk/reward. I completely agree you should have the intention of going in for tackles; but as a rule of thumb not a strict rule. Makes sense why we have so many injuries.
It also sets dangerous precedent of us looking like the management of loan players, potential signings etc. is not a good one.
I feel like TS needs to keep backing LB as he has done, as he can't snap to a vote of distrust however I think a look at the management style may be a fit. We need an identity and that needs a lot of work, is that identity one where a player is prepared to be slammed publicly?
I think this season will run away from us soon. Any competent well drilled side can beat us by exploiting us, playing between the lines and pushing our midfielders into places they shouldn't be (doesn't take much doing).
Hopefully next step forward is getting Aneke fit enough to play 90mins, the guy is quality but how the hell can he still not manage 90mins!? Endless list of questions at the moment.
I ask what's the rush? We are miles and miles away from the prem, none of our players would make the step up imo to be anything more than bit part players in the champ, so why the hurry to have another poor season up there. It's all too thickle for my liking. The football has looked crap for ages imo, even when we had quality players we played some proper crap ball so why the outrage now. I watched us get turned over by Burton and fluke a 2-1 in our promotion season, got the result though so no one cared.
It's hard to even piece together all my thoughts tbh, so I'll try and break it down in brief points
- Our players simply aren't good, I'll stand by that, forget all this internationals and ex champ crap, they're bit part players for their country and ex champ for a reason
- we would be laughing at other clubs fans for this behaviour, he was a saint before TS arrived
- the players he is openly criticising we do ourselves, they aren't gonna be long term Charlton players, none of us would care if he was doing it behind closed doors but we were getting results.
Loads more to post but in summary I've reflected on it all and I am on Bowyers side. He has players that can't even play a 90 minute game, he has players that are a result of terrible previous ownership, there is no manager we could get in that could turn this around, no realistic options anyway, if he has lost the dressing room then so what? Would it be ok for a new man to come in and all of a sudden the players show more energy? Means the players are deliberately sabotaging the club. I hate seeing that. Why did players like Aribo, Bielik, Cullen, Grant, Taylor etc all speak well of Lee and left on good terms. Most of our players out yes, Bowyer out no
Sorry I haven't structured my post very well just a bit annoyed at it all
I think we need to show some loyalty otherwise we are no different from big club fans demanding results
Either way I have no idea what Riga is up to and very much doubt he is ever coming back to Charlton.
He's still well in credit for me.
Bowyer in.
We have no idea of what has happened between Maddison and Bowyer, the comment is not that bad. If he had gone off on a stretcher and was visibly in distress do you really believe Lee reacts like that? Lee clearly just doesn't like him and vented
Cmon we are better than this ffs, I am completely ok with people critisicing the football but that comment is being used to fuel an agenda
Very poor to come out with stuff like this, speaking without first engaging brain.
It's heat of the moment stuff, when emotions are running high.
Bowyer really shouldn't agree to be interviewed immediately post match, especially if we've just lost and the red mist has descended.
He does himself no favours .... and would benefit from heeding the example of his wise old mentor, Bobby Robson.
Jacko should be primed to step in, if Bowyer's seething and not thinking before he speaks.
And it's not as if the disgruntlement has started all of a sudden, for a couple of months now we've been playing poor football AND getting poor results in a league where, even with the shambles of the last few years, we're still a big fish. If the players are demotivated and don't seem to know what they're doing, some of the blame has to go to the manager.
"we're going on a journey and he wants to be part of that"
To
"I can only do so much, it was x, y, z players fault".
I'll make it clear I know Bowyer is to blame, I have some doubts about him as a manager now, but those same doubts I have had about plenty of previous successful managers in my lifetime, overly defensive, Powell and Curbs both did it. There are premier League managers doing it. I think it's something he can learn to move away from though as he starts to trust his players more and has players that don't need to be taken off for fitness issues.
Just imagine if we were in an auto slot and Sheffield Wednesday came in for him and he left, we would be calling him Judas and every name under the sun. We sit 7th with 78 points to play for, a transfer window and in a very inconsistent league. Sitting 7th isn't ideal but if we didn't have TS no one would care, we are being mini glory hunters of sorts
I am not saying settle for mediocrity here but he definitely deserve this season at a minimum, I hate the idea of us being a club that throw away a manager for blips
For me it isnt the recent results that have been the gripe. All teams go through bad spells results wise. The biggest problem is the totally bizarre team selections and the derision of certain players. Add on that the total refusal to accept any responsibility following such poor performances is a sign of very poor management skills. I know it is not possible but the best thing that could happen now would be for Lee to go spend a couple of weeks fishing and clear his head. I'm sure he would come back a very different person in terms of how he approaches the team
On that basis I don't expect him to get rid of Bowyer this season. It's not necessarily a "free hit", more that at this point the first 11 results are seen more as a symptom than a root cause of anything. This season has not been written off entirely but the real work starts once the whole club is a Sandgaard operation/project entirely (hence him remaining the sole director.)
On the other hand, I would be very surprised if he doesn't have a word with Bowyer at some point to discuss exactly what he's expecting, including on the pitch. It could be that it's more things like the comments that seal Bowyer's fate than results if it does come to that.
I personally really want Bowyer to turn it around but I can't hand on heart say I expect him to. There really is a question of whether him staying on is doing ANYONE any favours - himself included.
If TS leaves him in charge if he doesn't make the playoffs then he will struggle to get any backing. Whatever the limitations of our squad it should be up to making the top 6.
Interesting to see who he fields against Rochdale. We need to keep a clean sheet.
Put out a proper defensive team, even if we draw 0-0, feel a clean sheet would be just as much of a confidence boost for the players as a win would be
We need to concentrate and not to ship an early goal. Happy with a 0-0 or a narrow win.
Can't afford to keep giving the ball away
Have Forster-Caskey and Gilbey ahead of them, Miller between Midfield and Attack and then Smyth | Aneke up top, means we've then got a targetman and two quick players to cause problems
its not a pretty line up, nor am I sure how I feel about Gilbey playing that role now but there isnt anyone else especially no one that Bowyer will think wont jump out of a tackle, even he's questionable
Last season we had 9 games to keep us up and Bonne was our striker whether Bowyer liked it or not. It's not Fantasy football where you swap out a non performing player and bring in Vardy instead, he was all we had.
And no a manager shouldn't be telling a player he's crap, because that's not something the player can change, and all it's likely do is dent their confidence. You don't bollock players into becoming better, anymore than you can bollock dentists or carpenters into being better
Its just about stopping the rot and being able to build a base of form from something, ANYTHING!!
How many times did we see that approach from Curbs where he'd go defensive just to stop a run of bad form