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Has Bowyer lost it?
Comments
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Can't really compare Curbs wanting to stop a run of bad form in the Premier league where we were underdogs most games, to Bowyer at home to Rochdale who are in the league one drop zone.ForeverAddickted said:
Its not about being happy with 0-0 against anyoneRaplhMilne said:
Shows where we are “Happy with 0-0 home to Rochdale” 4th bottom and conceded 13 in their last 5 games. Let’s not build up any expectations here.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
We looked really poor at the back last night and I'm not clear who will start Tuesday. Pearce looked out of sorts and Oshilaja looks like he has a mistake in him.ForeverAddickted said:
At this moment in time I'd go full out Curbs with Tuesday night...hoof_it_up_to_benty said:Bizarre team selections and a string of poor performances hardly fill anyone with confidence. LB doesn't inspire confidence with his interviews - he comes across as someone is struggling.
If TS leaves him in charge if he doesn't make the playoffs then he will struggle to get any backing. Whatever the limitations of our squad it should be up to making the top 6.
Interesting to see who he fields against Rochdale. We need to keep a clean sheet.
Put out a proper defensive team, even if we draw 0-0, feel a clean sheet would be just as much of a confidence boost for the players as a win would be
We need to concentrate and not to ship an early goal. Happy with a 0-0 or a narrow win.
Can't afford to keep giving the ball away
Its just about stopping the rot and being able to build a base of form from something, ANYTHING!!
How many times did we see that approach from Curbs where he'd go defensive just to stop a run of bad form
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We need a new manager and Bowyer could be our new assistant manager instead providing insight and backup.7
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Not really but I'd prefer to get that type of game out the way sooner rather than laterChris_from_Sidcup said:
Can't really compare Curbs wanting to stop a run of bad form in the Premier league where we were underdogs most games, to Bowyer at home to Rochdale who are in the league one drop zone.ForeverAddickted said:
Its not about being happy with 0-0 against anyoneRaplhMilne said:
Shows where we are “Happy with 0-0 home to Rochdale” 4th bottom and conceded 13 in their last 5 games. Let’s not build up any expectations here.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
We looked really poor at the back last night and I'm not clear who will start Tuesday. Pearce looked out of sorts and Oshilaja looks like he has a mistake in him.ForeverAddickted said:
At this moment in time I'd go full out Curbs with Tuesday night...hoof_it_up_to_benty said:Bizarre team selections and a string of poor performances hardly fill anyone with confidence. LB doesn't inspire confidence with his interviews - he comes across as someone is struggling.
If TS leaves him in charge if he doesn't make the playoffs then he will struggle to get any backing. Whatever the limitations of our squad it should be up to making the top 6.
Interesting to see who he fields against Rochdale. We need to keep a clean sheet.
Put out a proper defensive team, even if we draw 0-0, feel a clean sheet would be just as much of a confidence boost for the players as a win would be
We need to concentrate and not to ship an early goal. Happy with a 0-0 or a narrow win.
Can't afford to keep giving the ball away
Its just about stopping the rot and being able to build a base of form from something, ANYTHING!!
How many times did we see that approach from Curbs where he'd go defensive just to stop a run of bad form
Especially with Peterborough on the horizon
Of course as I myself have stressed enough of late, there is no given the opposition will simply play ball themselves to what we want to do, so going even more defensive in the hope of a 1-0 smash and grab could even result in a lot worse than sticking to what we've been doing of late0 -
Dodgy owners- check, embargo- check, not backed- check, late signings due to ownership- check.
Next season is shit or bust for Bowyer and there's no excuses.4 -
The problem is that with 2 CBs, Pratley and Watson out, I'm not sure we've got the players to park the bus and grind out a result.ForeverAddickted said:
Its not about being happy with 0-0 against anyoneRaplhMilne said:
Shows where we are “Happy with 0-0 home to Rochdale” 4th bottom and conceded 13 in their last 5 games. Let’s not build up any expectations here.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
We looked really poor at the back last night and I'm not clear who will start Tuesday. Pearce looked out of sorts and Oshilaja looks like he has a mistake in him.ForeverAddickted said:
At this moment in time I'd go full out Curbs with Tuesday night...hoof_it_up_to_benty said:Bizarre team selections and a string of poor performances hardly fill anyone with confidence. LB doesn't inspire confidence with his interviews - he comes across as someone is struggling.
If TS leaves him in charge if he doesn't make the playoffs then he will struggle to get any backing. Whatever the limitations of our squad it should be up to making the top 6.
Interesting to see who he fields against Rochdale. We need to keep a clean sheet.
Put out a proper defensive team, even if we draw 0-0, feel a clean sheet would be just as much of a confidence boost for the players as a win would be
We need to concentrate and not to ship an early goal. Happy with a 0-0 or a narrow win.
Can't afford to keep giving the ball away
Its just about stopping the rot and being able to build a base of form from something, ANYTHING!!
How many times did we see that approach from Curbs where he'd go defensive just to stop a run of bad form8 -
That's all well and good but if he has lost the dressing room would you proceed with his services this season?shine166 said:Dodgy owners- check, embargo- check, not backed- check, late signings due to ownership- check.
Next season is shit or bust for Bowyer and there's no excuses.0 -
Amos - one of our best players in 17/18 seasonCraicAddick said:Where does this idea come from that we have one of the best teams in the league?- We lack any depth across the entire pitch. Perhaps our only position with two good options is at RB.
- Second, we lack any real quality in Midfield. We don't have a single player who can control and dictate the pace of a game from the centre of the park, deep-lying or as a #10. We don't even have a midfield that can pass the ball forward without either an ambitious long ball or pass out to the full backs.
- Apart from Aneke, we don't have any quality upfront. Simple as.
Matthews - one of our best players in the Championship last season
Gunter - played consistently at Championship level last season
Famewo - started the season well
Innis - same as above
Oshilaja - Wimbledon captain at this level
Purrington - labelled as ‘steady eddie’ in our 18/19 promotion season
Maatsen - no doubt in his quality and probably a lot of fans player of the season so far
JFC - one of our best players in 17/18 season
Gilbey - MK Dons player of the season at this level
Watson - one of Forest’s player of the season in the Championship last season
Pratley - one of our best players in the Championship last season
Williams - was brilliant pre-injury last season, although admittedly I don’t think he’s as good as a lot of people make him out to be.
Maddison - his record / stats at this level speaks for itself
Shinnie - Luton player of the season in their 2018/19 Champions season
Aneke - record at this level speaks for itself and one of our best players this season
Washington - our top scorer this season
That’s everyone in the squad bar Doughty (long term injury), Schwartz and Millar (new signings) and Pearce, Bogle and Smyth (who probably aren’t top league 1 level, although hard to tell with Smyth). Think that shows why everyone thinks we have one of the best teams in the league.
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That's done it - i'm now convinced you must be a wind up FA.ForeverAddickted said:
At this moment in time I'd go full out Curbs with Tuesday night...hoof_it_up_to_benty said:Bizarre team selections and a string of poor performances hardly fill anyone with confidence. LB doesn't inspire confidence with his interviews - he comes across as someone is struggling.
If TS leaves him in charge if he doesn't make the playoffs then he will struggle to get any backing. Whatever the limitations of our squad it should be up to making the top 6.
Interesting to see who he fields against Rochdale. We need to keep a clean sheet.
Put out a proper defensive team, even if we draw 0-0, feel a clean sheet would be just as much of a confidence boost for the players as a win would be4 -
Fraid not!! - But then as I said yesterday I've learnt to respect people's views after last weekDOUCHER said:
That's done it - i'm now convinced you must be a wind up FA.ForeverAddickted said:
At this moment in time I'd go full out Curbs with Tuesday night...hoof_it_up_to_benty said:Bizarre team selections and a string of poor performances hardly fill anyone with confidence. LB doesn't inspire confidence with his interviews - he comes across as someone is struggling.
If TS leaves him in charge if he doesn't make the playoffs then he will struggle to get any backing. Whatever the limitations of our squad it should be up to making the top 6.
Interesting to see who he fields against Rochdale. We need to keep a clean sheet.
Put out a proper defensive team, even if we draw 0-0, feel a clean sheet would be just as much of a confidence boost for the players as a win would be
So if you want to think I'm on a wind up 👋0 -
Good idea.WK6824Nine said:We need a new manager and Bowyer could be our new assistant manager instead providing insight and backup.
Would you mind suggesting it to him?4 - Sponsored links:
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Manager's who can marshall a team and make them hard to beat aren't all that rare but the ones with an eye for a player and the ability to train them on are like gold dust. As Bowyer's proven himself to be in the latter category I'd give him plenty more time to turn things around .3
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Some great pro and anti LB posts on this thread and I feel somewhat conflicted in agreeing with both points of view.
LB's loyalty and our club ethos does mean we shouldn't rush to get rid given that the squad was flung together last minute, no pre-season, injuries and Covid. But if LB is unwilling/ unable to address the strange team selections, wtf team tactics and poor man-management then it's probably best that TS does something sooner rather than later.
Given the lack of spectators I can't see that the fans can influence the LB decision that much and I'm very happy to give TS the benefit of the doubt in whatever he decides to do. After all he'll have access to info. we don't including what's going on in the dressing room, JJ and SG's views, whether LB is willing to accept guidance from a more experienced mentor etc.
I remain very grateful to TS for saving the club and giving us the usual run of the mill football stuff to talk about. The memories of the Doncaster play-off and Wembley will stay with me for a long time and it would be a real shame if the club can't work with Lee to resolve whatever is going wrong. But if TS decides to bring someone else in and treats LB with dignity and respect then that's fine with me.
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I get the logic FA, but for me the only thing that’s going to instill confidence is a proper decent performance. A 0-0 at home or a narrow win will still leave a lot of questions for me.ForeverAddickted said:
At this moment in time I'd go full out Curbs with Tuesday night...hoof_it_up_to_benty said:Bizarre team selections and a string of poor performances hardly fill anyone with confidence. LB doesn't inspire confidence with his interviews - he comes across as someone is struggling.
If TS leaves him in charge if he doesn't make the playoffs then he will struggle to get any backing. Whatever the limitations of our squad it should be up to making the top 6.
Interesting to see who he fields against Rochdale. We need to keep a clean sheet.
Put out a proper defensive team, even if we draw 0-0, feel a clean sheet would be just as much of a confidence boost for the players as a win would beThe team and the fans could benefit from a real attacking, ruthless approach.Whether we get that is another question entirely4 -
Good point, the way to resolve this is a CAST questionairre.mendonca said:The next logical thing to look at is if the players are not interested/following instructions.
- Do the players believe in the current management and leadership style?
- Has the recruitment targeted the correct players to get our of L1? Or players that are comfy in L1.
- Have we got a motivated squad of players or a mish mash of all sorts?
- Why do rotate the team so often? Is it necessary or out of choice.
- Is the entire Management team too inexperienced? They are great Charlton boys but struggling with Sparrows Lane to Game day transition.9 -
I wonder how many times Bowyer has had that conversation privately with Maddison previously for him to be so direct in public.killerandflash said:I still feel it odd that the thing that wound Bowyer up most was Maddison jumping out of a tackle, as it didn't cost us anything as we were 2-0 down anyway
It's akin to publicly slagging off a batsman (say KP) for getting out to an aggressive shot for 15, when nobody else got more than 10.
It's a throwaway comment made out of exasperation and frustration rather than genuine malice in my view. He shouldn't have said it in public I suppose but not one of those players in that dressing room can be in any doubt now that the tepid shitshow they produced last night is unacceptable.
If we get a proper reaction from them and beat Rochdale to get the truck back on the tracks well done Lee. If we don't then it says more about the poor attitude of gutless players than Lee's poor management in my opinion.
The players have to take responsibility too. No manager could legislate for Pearce's cock up. I'm not intending to dig Pearce out because, like Bowyer, he has been here through most of the Roland et al shitshow and remains well in credit for me. Bowyer has held his hands up about getting his substitutions wrong last night. Pearce, as Club Captain, should have done the same privately at least in the dressing room. He may well have done so already and if so good lad.
All that said Accrington Stanley deserve some credit. They did a job on us and deserved their win.3 -
Did Bowyer hold his hand up about the substitutions OR did he mainly just criticise the players who came on?LenGlover said:
I wonder how many times Bowyer has had that conversation privately with Maddison previously for him to be so direct in public.killerandflash said:I still feel it odd that the thing that wound Bowyer up most was Maddison jumping out of a tackle, as it didn't cost us anything as we were 2-0 down anyway
It's akin to publicly slagging off a batsman (say KP) for getting out to an aggressive shot for 15, when nobody else got more than 10.
It's a throwaway comment made out of exasperation and frustration rather than genuine malice in my view. He shouldn't have said it in public I suppose but not one of those players in that dressing room can be in any doubt now that the tepid shitshow they produced last night is unacceptable.
If we get a proper reaction from them and beat Rochdale to get the truck back on the tracks well done Lee. If we don't then it says more about the poor attitude of gutless players than Lee's poor management in my opinion.
The players have to take responsibility too. No manager could legislate for Pearce's cock up. I'm not intending to dig Pearce out because, like Bowyer, he has been here through most of the Roland et al shitshow and remains well in credit for me. Bowyer has held his hands up about getting his substitutions wrong last night. Pearce, as Club Captain, should have done the same privately at least in the dressing room. He may well have done so already and if so good lad.
All that said Accrington Stanley deserve some credit. They did a job on us and deserved their win.
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Yes , here you go relevant extract from London News on line;killerandflash said:
Did Bowyer hold his hand up about the substitutions OR did he mainly just criticise the players who came on?LenGlover said:
I wonder how many times Bowyer has had that conversation privately with Maddison previously for him to be so direct in public.killerandflash said:I still feel it odd that the thing that wound Bowyer up most was Maddison jumping out of a tackle, as it didn't cost us anything as we were 2-0 down anyway
It's akin to publicly slagging off a batsman (say KP) for getting out to an aggressive shot for 15, when nobody else got more than 10.
It's a throwaway comment made out of exasperation and frustration rather than genuine malice in my view. He shouldn't have said it in public I suppose but not one of those players in that dressing room can be in any doubt now that the tepid shitshow they produced last night is unacceptable.
If we get a proper reaction from them and beat Rochdale to get the truck back on the tracks well done Lee. If we don't then it says more about the poor attitude of gutless players than Lee's poor management in my opinion.
The players have to take responsibility too. No manager could legislate for Pearce's cock up. I'm not intending to dig Pearce out because, like Bowyer, he has been here through most of the Roland et al shitshow and remains well in credit for me. Bowyer has held his hands up about getting his substitutions wrong last night. Pearce, as Club Captain, should have done the same privately at least in the dressing room. He may well have done so already and if so good lad.
All that said Accrington Stanley deserve some credit. They did a job on us and deserved their win.
‘Jonny Williams came on. Was he any better than any others? No. You’re bringing midfielders on and thinking ‘ come on, now give us that bit in the last 20, 30 minutes’. Chuks did. Chuks made a difference. The other two didn’t. If anything it made us weaker. And I have to take the blame for that. I brought on subs to try and make us better and it made us weaker. But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say: “I gave everything’ then they are liars’ .
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I feel your points are alongside my own and was going to post something similar.thai malaysia addick said:The title of the thread is ‘Has Bowyer lost it?’ I’m not clear what that means exactly. Has he lost the support of the players? Has he lost interest? Is he mentally unstable? You decide.
My thoughts on it are twofold.
1) The early run of results was based on not conceding any goals. Since the two guys at the back, Famewo and Inniss, were injured, we have conceded too many. The arrival of Sandgaard and those clean sheets raised expectation to a level of play-offs comfortably and, in some cases, winning the league by a mile.
2) The reality is this side was cobbled together under a transfer embargo amid chaos. I doubt that the team we’ve ended up with is anything like what Bowyer would have wanted.
’Do your transfer business’ early is a commonly heard maxim. We couldn’t. Has Bowyer lost it? He has lost another season where there has been a) chaos at the club b) key injuries c) a cobbled together team. Added to this, there is a salary cap that means we can’t throw a bit of weight around.
Yes, the current form is disappointing and we should expect more from the group but badly run businesses do not recover overnight. I’m just glad we still exist even though I find it hard to take a loss to a team like Accrington Stanley who were a sort of a joke in the past.Particularly the point of, would Bowyer have recruited these same players had he not been backed into a corner and needing to put a team out, some but not all.
Thanks for saving me the trouble @“thai malaysia addick"0 -
Have you been drinking?addick1956 said:
Snd the mid field is a harmonious well oiled machine?Oh Eddie Youds... said:
This is nonsense. We are falling down the table because we have no decent centre backs available. That's the problem.Bilko said:I think Bowyer quite enjoyed being the under dog boss with shit owners because he had nothing to lose. Now we have got TS it’s the 1st time he has been under pressure to perform and he doesn’t like it.0 -
Glad you’re not my dad!BansteadAddick said:Last night from Bowyer was pure frustration. The Pearce mistake was shocking for a player of his experience. If my son did that playing u16s football as a centre half he would get it in the ear from me all week. Not good enough indeed.
Accrington are a good side and to go 1-0 down to them with our current confidence level it was always going to be tough.
But Maddison is a tough one. We all said on here how we dodged a bullet when he went to Hull. Nothing has changed. Very gifted footballer but he has issues. Bowyer is too honest and that was pure frustration coming out. But it is unprofessional and does not do him any favours?1 - Sponsored links:
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But his comments are as much aimed at the players as himselfRedChaser said:
Yes , here you go relevant extract from London News on line;killerandflash said:
Did Bowyer hold his hand up about the substitutions OR did he mainly just criticise the players who came on?LenGlover said:
I wonder how many times Bowyer has had that conversation privately with Maddison previously for him to be so direct in public.killerandflash said:I still feel it odd that the thing that wound Bowyer up most was Maddison jumping out of a tackle, as it didn't cost us anything as we were 2-0 down anyway
It's akin to publicly slagging off a batsman (say KP) for getting out to an aggressive shot for 15, when nobody else got more than 10.
It's a throwaway comment made out of exasperation and frustration rather than genuine malice in my view. He shouldn't have said it in public I suppose but not one of those players in that dressing room can be in any doubt now that the tepid shitshow they produced last night is unacceptable.
If we get a proper reaction from them and beat Rochdale to get the truck back on the tracks well done Lee. If we don't then it says more about the poor attitude of gutless players than Lee's poor management in my opinion.
The players have to take responsibility too. No manager could legislate for Pearce's cock up. I'm not intending to dig Pearce out because, like Bowyer, he has been here through most of the Roland et al shitshow and remains well in credit for me. Bowyer has held his hands up about getting his substitutions wrong last night. Pearce, as Club Captain, should have done the same privately at least in the dressing room. He may well have done so already and if so good lad.
All that said Accrington Stanley deserve some credit. They did a job on us and deserved their win.
‘Jonny Williams came on. Was he any better than any others? No. You’re bringing midfielders on and thinking ‘ come on, now give us that bit in the last 20, 30 minutes’. Chuks did. Chuks made a difference. The other two didn’t. If anything it made us weaker. And I have to take the blame for that. I brought on subs to try and make us better and it made us weaker. But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say: “I gave everything’ then they are liars’ .
But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say: “I gave everything’ then they are liars’
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I never said they weren’t, you asked if he put his hands up and he did 🤷♂️.killerandflash said:
But his comments are as much aimed at the players as himselfRedChaser said:
Yes , here you go relevant extract from London News on line;killerandflash said:
Did Bowyer hold his hand up about the substitutions OR did he mainly just criticise the players who came on?LenGlover said:
I wonder how many times Bowyer has had that conversation privately with Maddison previously for him to be so direct in public.killerandflash said:I still feel it odd that the thing that wound Bowyer up most was Maddison jumping out of a tackle, as it didn't cost us anything as we were 2-0 down anyway
It's akin to publicly slagging off a batsman (say KP) for getting out to an aggressive shot for 15, when nobody else got more than 10.
It's a throwaway comment made out of exasperation and frustration rather than genuine malice in my view. He shouldn't have said it in public I suppose but not one of those players in that dressing room can be in any doubt now that the tepid shitshow they produced last night is unacceptable.
If we get a proper reaction from them and beat Rochdale to get the truck back on the tracks well done Lee. If we don't then it says more about the poor attitude of gutless players than Lee's poor management in my opinion.
The players have to take responsibility too. No manager could legislate for Pearce's cock up. I'm not intending to dig Pearce out because, like Bowyer, he has been here through most of the Roland et al shitshow and remains well in credit for me. Bowyer has held his hands up about getting his substitutions wrong last night. Pearce, as Club Captain, should have done the same privately at least in the dressing room. He may well have done so already and if so good lad.
All that said Accrington Stanley deserve some credit. They did a job on us and deserved their win.
‘Jonny Williams came on. Was he any better than any others? No. You’re bringing midfielders on and thinking ‘ come on, now give us that bit in the last 20, 30 minutes’. Chuks did. Chuks made a difference. The other two didn’t. If anything it made us weaker. And I have to take the blame for that. I brought on subs to try and make us better and it made us weaker. But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say: “I gave everything’ then they are liars’ .
But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say: “I gave everything’ then they are liars’
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Yes, the question is not just about Bowyer, regardless of how he's conducting himself and his role.killerandflash said:
But his comments are as much aimed at the players as himselfRedChaser said:
Yes , here you go relevant extract from London News on line;killerandflash said:
Did Bowyer hold his hand up about the substitutions OR did he mainly just criticise the players who came on?LenGlover said:
I wonder how many times Bowyer has had that conversation privately with Maddison previously for him to be so direct in public.killerandflash said:I still feel it odd that the thing that wound Bowyer up most was Maddison jumping out of a tackle, as it didn't cost us anything as we were 2-0 down anyway
It's akin to publicly slagging off a batsman (say KP) for getting out to an aggressive shot for 15, when nobody else got more than 10.
It's a throwaway comment made out of exasperation and frustration rather than genuine malice in my view. He shouldn't have said it in public I suppose but not one of those players in that dressing room can be in any doubt now that the tepid shitshow they produced last night is unacceptable.
If we get a proper reaction from them and beat Rochdale to get the truck back on the tracks well done Lee. If we don't then it says more about the poor attitude of gutless players than Lee's poor management in my opinion.
The players have to take responsibility too. No manager could legislate for Pearce's cock up. I'm not intending to dig Pearce out because, like Bowyer, he has been here through most of the Roland et al shitshow and remains well in credit for me. Bowyer has held his hands up about getting his substitutions wrong last night. Pearce, as Club Captain, should have done the same privately at least in the dressing room. He may well have done so already and if so good lad.
All that said Accrington Stanley deserve some credit. They did a job on us and deserved their win.
‘Jonny Williams came on. Was he any better than any others? No. You’re bringing midfielders on and thinking ‘ come on, now give us that bit in the last 20, 30 minutes’. Chuks did. Chuks made a difference. The other two didn’t. If anything it made us weaker. And I have to take the blame for that. I brought on subs to try and make us better and it made us weaker. But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say: “I gave everything’ then they are liars’ .
But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say: “I gave everything’ then they are liars’
It's also about the players, individually and collectively as a team.
They are professionals.
As a professional and who's career depends on their reputation, each one must ask himself, "did I give a committed and professional performance?"
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Not too disimilar to a 5-2 win? That didn't really work.cabbles said:
I get the logic FA, but for me the only thing that’s going to instill confidence is a proper decent performance. A 0-0 at home or a narrow win will still leave a lot of questions for me.ForeverAddickted said:
At this moment in time I'd go full out Curbs with Tuesday night...hoof_it_up_to_benty said:Bizarre team selections and a string of poor performances hardly fill anyone with confidence. LB doesn't inspire confidence with his interviews - he comes across as someone is struggling.
If TS leaves him in charge if he doesn't make the playoffs then he will struggle to get any backing. Whatever the limitations of our squad it should be up to making the top 6.
Interesting to see who he fields against Rochdale. We need to keep a clean sheet.
Put out a proper defensive team, even if we draw 0-0, feel a clean sheet would be just as much of a confidence boost for the players as a win would beThe team and the fans could benefit from a real attacking, ruthless approach.Whether we get that is another question entirely
We do need some clean sheets.0 -
worked for me and if we hadn't dropped all the players that produced it for the next match, it would have continued to workDazzler21 said:
Not too disimilar to a 5-2 win? That didn't really work.cabbles said:
I get the logic FA, but for me the only thing that’s going to instill confidence is a proper decent performance. A 0-0 at home or a narrow win will still leave a lot of questions for me.ForeverAddickted said:
At this moment in time I'd go full out Curbs with Tuesday night...hoof_it_up_to_benty said:Bizarre team selections and a string of poor performances hardly fill anyone with confidence. LB doesn't inspire confidence with his interviews - he comes across as someone is struggling.
If TS leaves him in charge if he doesn't make the playoffs then he will struggle to get any backing. Whatever the limitations of our squad it should be up to making the top 6.
Interesting to see who he fields against Rochdale. We need to keep a clean sheet.
Put out a proper defensive team, even if we draw 0-0, feel a clean sheet would be just as much of a confidence boost for the players as a win would beThe team and the fans could benefit from a real attacking, ruthless approach.Whether we get that is another question entirely
We do need some clean sheets.8 -
I’ll take 3-0 then. To be fair, the AFC game wasn’t convincing. We just blitzed them with 2 goals in as many minutes and then went ontoDazzler21 said:
Not too disimilar to a 5-2 win? That didn't really work.cabbles said:
I get the logic FA, but for me the only thing that’s going to instill confidence is a proper decent performance. A 0-0 at home or a narrow win will still leave a lot of questions for me.ForeverAddickted said:
At this moment in time I'd go full out Curbs with Tuesday night...hoof_it_up_to_benty said:Bizarre team selections and a string of poor performances hardly fill anyone with confidence. LB doesn't inspire confidence with his interviews - he comes across as someone is struggling.
If TS leaves him in charge if he doesn't make the playoffs then he will struggle to get any backing. Whatever the limitations of our squad it should be up to making the top 6.
Interesting to see who he fields against Rochdale. We need to keep a clean sheet.
Put out a proper defensive team, even if we draw 0-0, feel a clean sheet would be just as much of a confidence boost for the players as a win would beThe team and the fans could benefit from a real attacking, ruthless approach.Whether we get that is another question entirely
We do need some clean sheets.
control the rest of the game.
a clean sheet would be good, but a huff and puff 1-0 win will still leave us with more questions than answers imo. Let’s see. Hope we can turn it round.The post match views on Tuesday could be very grim reading if we don’t get a result1 -
It's the manager's job to motivate the players, to get them playing to their maximum.Oggy Red said:
Yes, the question is not just about Bowyer, regardless of how he's conducting himself and his role.killerandflash said:
But his comments are as much aimed at the players as himselfRedChaser said:
Yes , here you go relevant extract from London News on line;killerandflash said:
Did Bowyer hold his hand up about the substitutions OR did he mainly just criticise the players who came on?LenGlover said:
I wonder how many times Bowyer has had that conversation privately with Maddison previously for him to be so direct in public.killerandflash said:I still feel it odd that the thing that wound Bowyer up most was Maddison jumping out of a tackle, as it didn't cost us anything as we were 2-0 down anyway
It's akin to publicly slagging off a batsman (say KP) for getting out to an aggressive shot for 15, when nobody else got more than 10.
It's a throwaway comment made out of exasperation and frustration rather than genuine malice in my view. He shouldn't have said it in public I suppose but not one of those players in that dressing room can be in any doubt now that the tepid shitshow they produced last night is unacceptable.
If we get a proper reaction from them and beat Rochdale to get the truck back on the tracks well done Lee. If we don't then it says more about the poor attitude of gutless players than Lee's poor management in my opinion.
The players have to take responsibility too. No manager could legislate for Pearce's cock up. I'm not intending to dig Pearce out because, like Bowyer, he has been here through most of the Roland et al shitshow and remains well in credit for me. Bowyer has held his hands up about getting his substitutions wrong last night. Pearce, as Club Captain, should have done the same privately at least in the dressing room. He may well have done so already and if so good lad.
All that said Accrington Stanley deserve some credit. They did a job on us and deserved their win.
‘Jonny Williams came on. Was he any better than any others? No. You’re bringing midfielders on and thinking ‘ come on, now give us that bit in the last 20, 30 minutes’. Chuks did. Chuks made a difference. The other two didn’t. If anything it made us weaker. And I have to take the blame for that. I brought on subs to try and make us better and it made us weaker. But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say: “I gave everything’ then they are liars’ .
But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say: “I gave everything’ then they are liars’
It's also about the players, individually and collectively as a team.
They are professionals.
As a professional and who's career depends on their reputation, each one must ask himself, "did I give a committed and professional performance?"
1 -
Of course, but players must play their part too.killerandflash said:
It's the manager's job to motivate the players, to get them playing to their maximum.Oggy Red said:
Yes, the question is not just about Bowyer, regardless of how he's conducting himself and his role.killerandflash said:
But his comments are as much aimed at the players as himselfRedChaser said:
Yes , here you go relevant extract from London News on line;killerandflash said:
Did Bowyer hold his hand up about the substitutions OR did he mainly just criticise the players who came on?LenGlover said:
I wonder how many times Bowyer has had that conversation privately with Maddison previously for him to be so direct in public.killerandflash said:I still feel it odd that the thing that wound Bowyer up most was Maddison jumping out of a tackle, as it didn't cost us anything as we were 2-0 down anyway
It's akin to publicly slagging off a batsman (say KP) for getting out to an aggressive shot for 15, when nobody else got more than 10.
It's a throwaway comment made out of exasperation and frustration rather than genuine malice in my view. He shouldn't have said it in public I suppose but not one of those players in that dressing room can be in any doubt now that the tepid shitshow they produced last night is unacceptable.
If we get a proper reaction from them and beat Rochdale to get the truck back on the tracks well done Lee. If we don't then it says more about the poor attitude of gutless players than Lee's poor management in my opinion.
The players have to take responsibility too. No manager could legislate for Pearce's cock up. I'm not intending to dig Pearce out because, like Bowyer, he has been here through most of the Roland et al shitshow and remains well in credit for me. Bowyer has held his hands up about getting his substitutions wrong last night. Pearce, as Club Captain, should have done the same privately at least in the dressing room. He may well have done so already and if so good lad.
All that said Accrington Stanley deserve some credit. They did a job on us and deserved their win.
‘Jonny Williams came on. Was he any better than any others? No. You’re bringing midfielders on and thinking ‘ come on, now give us that bit in the last 20, 30 minutes’. Chuks did. Chuks made a difference. The other two didn’t. If anything it made us weaker. And I have to take the blame for that. I brought on subs to try and make us better and it made us weaker. But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say: “I gave everything’ then they are liars’ .
But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say: “I gave everything’ then they are liars’
It's also about the players, individually and collectively as a team.
They are professionals.
As a professional and who's career depends on their reputation, each one must ask himself, "did I give a committed and professional performance?"
Come on, mostly they are an experienced bunch who've been around the block one or three times.
They know the ropes.
And they know they are required to give a disciplined and committed performance.
That's the essence of being professional.
6 -
I interpret LB as saying that he won't make this mistake again of bringing on Williams or Maddison. As he doesn't start them anyway is he trying to edge them out the door in this window so he can possibly free up a place or two? Calling them "liars" because they might genuinely believe that they were giving everything is straight out of the Donald Trump book of diplomacy.Oggy Red said:
Yes, the question is not just about Bowyer, regardless of how he's conducting himself and his role.killerandflash said:
But his comments are as much aimed at the players as himselfRedChaser said:
Yes , here you go relevant extract from London News on line;killerandflash said:
Did Bowyer hold his hand up about the substitutions OR did he mainly just criticise the players who came on?LenGlover said:
I wonder how many times Bowyer has had that conversation privately with Maddison previously for him to be so direct in public.killerandflash said:I still feel it odd that the thing that wound Bowyer up most was Maddison jumping out of a tackle, as it didn't cost us anything as we were 2-0 down anyway
It's akin to publicly slagging off a batsman (say KP) for getting out to an aggressive shot for 15, when nobody else got more than 10.
It's a throwaway comment made out of exasperation and frustration rather than genuine malice in my view. He shouldn't have said it in public I suppose but not one of those players in that dressing room can be in any doubt now that the tepid shitshow they produced last night is unacceptable.
If we get a proper reaction from them and beat Rochdale to get the truck back on the tracks well done Lee. If we don't then it says more about the poor attitude of gutless players than Lee's poor management in my opinion.
The players have to take responsibility too. No manager could legislate for Pearce's cock up. I'm not intending to dig Pearce out because, like Bowyer, he has been here through most of the Roland et al shitshow and remains well in credit for me. Bowyer has held his hands up about getting his substitutions wrong last night. Pearce, as Club Captain, should have done the same privately at least in the dressing room. He may well have done so already and if so good lad.
All that said Accrington Stanley deserve some credit. They did a job on us and deserved their win.
‘Jonny Williams came on. Was he any better than any others? No. You’re bringing midfielders on and thinking ‘ come on, now give us that bit in the last 20, 30 minutes’. Chuks did. Chuks made a difference. The other two didn’t. If anything it made us weaker. And I have to take the blame for that. I brought on subs to try and make us better and it made us weaker. But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say: “I gave everything’ then they are liars’ .
But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say: “I gave everything’ then they are liars’
It's also about the players, individually and collectively as a team.
They are professionals.
As a professional and who's career depends on their reputation, each one must ask himself, "did I give a committed and professional performance?"
Neither might have been game changers but then they only had a third of a game to make a difference. Gilbey did nothing for the whole game but no mention of him. As evidenced by his marks this season Gilbey has been our worst player after all. Why is that?
Perhaps it's because LB treats the squad as if they are all members of the Animal Farm community i.e. they are all equal but some are more equal than others, And if we look at players he has singled out for "special" treatment then Williams, Morgan, Bogle and Maddison are at the top of that pile. But the likes of Gilbey, JFC, Gunter, Pratley and Watson are somewhat exempt. And the latter group have either not done what they are paid to do or have made massive blunders that have been ignored.
Even LB's criticism of Pratley being sent off last week was somewhat tame compared to what he has dished out to some of the others:“Prats (Pratley) getting sent off is disappointing,” Bowyer said.
“I said to Prats, he’s let us down. A little flick has cost us, because we were the team pushing and on top, but once you go down to 10 men, it becomes difficult.
“He’s our most experience player and you don’t expect him to make a mistake like that.
“It’s so soft. He’s flicked out at the fella (Wilks). Did the officials actually see it? I don’t know.
“Do I think it was a red card? It’s so soft. It’s a little flick.
“If you watch it back on the video, it’s a red card by the letter of the law. Not only has it cost us here, he’s out for three games.
“He’s apologised, but he’s going to be a big miss.”
What he didn't say was "that was a petulant act from someone who is 35 and has played 550 matches". He uses the word "disappointing". He then goes onto suggest that the officials and the decision were as much to blame - note he doesn't say "Not only has he cost us here, he’s out for three games." but "it". And then we see how LB views his value with the "he’s going to be a big miss" . There is no "if he ever does that again he won't play for me anymore".
I suggest that LB would have been a shade more than "disappointed" had it been Morgan, Williams or Maddison that had been the one sent off.
29 -
charltonkeston said:
I think what he finds hard to accept is that players aren't as aggressive & hard working as he was, a true box to box midfielder who scored a decent amount of goals. I think he expects everyone to show the passion that he did & it probably drives him mad when players don't.The squad is not good enough, simple as that. I would imagine Bowyer has lost it a lot over the past year and I don’t blame him. He probably finds it hard to except that players cannot do the things he found easy to do. After all he played at level this squad will never get close to.
I doubt Bowyer was all that optimistic with the players before we were rid of the previous owners. He was able to bring a few in but again with the salary cap I doubt he would have been jumping for joy.
With an owner who clearly wants success I think we have allowed ourselves to dream a little more than we should, I certainly find it frustrating to watch players not do the simple stuff. Maybe Bowyer should be a better than that in interviews but he is clearly frustrated by the same basic mistakes each game.
I’d be happy to just get this season over and draw a line under things. A proper pre-season with a rethink of the playing staff like Chris Powell did a few years back.0
This discussion has been closed.
