Bolton, Ebbsfleet now Bury (Clubs in trouble thread)

Rob7Lee said:

Henry Irving said:

Disagree. They had numerous deadlines and deliberately missed them all.

At some point the EFL has to say "enough".  That should have been the summer or when Dale bought Bury, that is their mistake.

That be the dodgy owner/s missing the deadlines?

So if RD decides he's had enough of paying the bills and we go into liquidation, he still wants north of £50m as that's what 'the property/land' is worth and the EFL kick us out that'll be OK?

I don't see what the EFL can do under current rules ?

Bury missed a number of deadlines and still haven't played a game.

A Bury takeover could still take months (bearing in mind the owner kept turning down offers and was clearly not a man of his word) .

Should the EFL just continue making deadline after deadline, until/if the takeover happened and Bury then have to play 46 games in say 6 months ?

Even now it would not be easy for them to play all the games.

Bear in mind, the owner's objective seemed to be to liquidate the club.

Any owner can do anything they want as long as they pay off their external debts. The issue with Bury & Bolton was that they couldn’t. 

Roly could close the club club tomorrow if he wanted. The first 7m from any asset sale would go to the former directors, the rest is his. 

Is it OK - no.  Is it legal and possible - yes. 

Covered End said:

Rob7Lee said:

Henry Irving said:

Disagree. They had numerous deadlines and deliberately missed them all.

At some point the EFL has to say "enough".  That should have been the summer or when Dale bought Bury, that is their mistake.

That be the dodgy owner/s missing the deadlines?

So if RD decides he's had enough of paying the bills and we go into liquidation, he still wants north of £50m as that's what 'the property/land' is worth and the EFL kick us out that'll be OK?

I don't see what the EFL can do under current rules ?

Relegate them from their division. They start again next year in L2.

it gives a club (in this instance) 8-9 months to sort itself out and be in a position to start again next season without having 'died'.

At the very worst, they have cost another club a place in L1 this season. but don't kill the club and 130+ years of history because of a couple of idiots. That identity needs better protection if they cannot have provided it through their governance.

Stu_of_Kunming said:

Covered End said:

AFKABartram said:

Covered End said:

Rob7Lee said:

Henry Irving said:

Disagree. They had numerous deadlines and deliberately missed them all.

At some point the EFL has to say "enough".  That should have been the summer or when Dale bought Bury, that is their mistake.

That be the dodgy owner/s missing the deadlines?

So if RD decides he's had enough of paying the bills and we go into liquidation, he still wants north of £50m as that's what 'the property/land' is worth and the EFL kick us out that'll be OK?

I don't see what the EFL can do under current rules ?

Relegate them from their division. They start again next year in L2.

it gives a club (in this instance) 8-9 months to sort itself out and be in a position to start again next season without having 'died'.

At the very worst, they have cost another club a place in L1 this season. but don't kill the club and 130+ years of history because of a couple of idiots. That identity needs better protection if they cannot have provided it through their governance.

Entirely agree with the sentiment, but can they give Bury a different "punishment" to previous teams in that position ?

When was the last time a team was in that position?

Aldershot & Maidstone were possibly the closest scenario.

There was no threat of relegation in 1992–93 as the Football League was taking an additional member that season. Maidstone finished 18th of 22 clubs in the Fourth Division, after the 23rd club, Aldershot, had been declared bankrupt and forced to resign from the league on 25 March 1992 after playing 36 games, results of which were declared void.

The 1992–93 season saw the creation of the Premier League from the old First Division, with the Second Division becoming Division One, the Third Division becoming Division Two, and the Fourth Division becoming Division Three. The Stones would be founder members of the new Division Three, but as the new season came closer it looked more and more unlikely that the Stones would be able to play in it as their financial worries showed no sign of easing and debts reaching £650,000, despite hundreds of thousands of pounds having recently been raised by the sale of players including Warren Barton, Mark Gall and Steve Butler.

Maidstone were due to play their first game of the season away to Scunthorpe United on 15 August 1992 but by this stage only two players (defender Gary Stebbing and striker Glen Donegal) were still registered to the club, and the Watling Street stadium had been sold the previous month, leaving Maidstone without a home and not knowing where they would be playing their home games if they remained in existence.

As a result, the match was cancelled. A plan to relocate the club to the north east of England and merge with Newcastle Blue Star was rejected by the Football League, which ruled that the club had to remain in the county of Kent.

After their opening game of the season was cancelled, Maidstone United was given until the following Monday to guarantee that it would be able to fulfill its fixtures. Unable to come up with the necessary backing, it resigned from the league on 17 August and went into liquidation

Covered End said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

Who deliberately missed them? The scumbag owner? The fans? The community?

The scumbag owner, who did the same as the scumbag Bolton owner.
Both turned down deals that would have saved the clubs in order to make more money for themselves.

Covered End said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

Who deliberately missed them? The scumbag owner? The fans? The community?

The scumbag owner, who did the same as the scumbag Bolton owner.
Both turned down deals that would have saved the clubs in order to make more money for themselves.

I suspect that 'interested parties' in the Bury fiasco left it as late as poss hoping for a last second fire sale and a low low price reflecting panic and desperation .. if that's the case, they mistimed their 'interest/bid' .. 
I've said before on here, the Neville chuckle bros were born in Bury and their dad worked for the club for years .. hey lads, fuck Salford, why didn't you put a few quid into your home town club ?

Lincsaddick said:

Covered End said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

Who deliberately missed them? The scumbag owner? The fans? The community?

The scumbag owner, who did the same as the scumbag Bolton owner.
Both turned down deals that would have saved the clubs in order to make more money for themselves.

Covered End said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

Who deliberately missed them? The scumbag owner? The fans? The community?

The scumbag owner, who did the same as the scumbag Bolton owner.
Both turned down deals that would have saved the clubs in order to make more money for themselves.

I suspect that 'interested parties' in the Bury fiasco left it as late as poss hoping for a last second fire sale and a low low price reflecting panic and desperation .. if that's the case, they mistimed their 'interest/bid' .. 
I've said before on here, the Neville chuckle bros were born in Bury and their dad worked for the club for years .. hey lads, fuck Salford, why didn't you put a few quid into your home town club ?

Very much the view hereabouts, not a lot of love for Salford because of their media darlings leg up with all the TV money they’ve benefited from.

ForeverAddickted said:

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1167439549762605064?s=19

I would add that if the bids were received before the deadline, then they should have been considered by the EFL.
So far we have been told that the bids were submitted after the deadline.

Covered End said:

AFKABartram said:

Just because a step was taken 30 years ago doesn’t mean it’s the right step to take now.

Everything should be done to save a football club. Punish it, yes, but don’t kill it when the people it means most to are just innocent passengers.

Don't forget my understanding is that the staff haven't been fully paid by the club for months.
I believe the EFL have been paying half of the salaries for the last 3/4 months,
How many months should the EFL pay the wages for ? 6 months, 12 months ?

Sorry to keep harping on with the same tedious point, but if someone can takeover a football club under the EFL's noses and then stop paying salaries within 4 months of taking over (as Dale did at Bury), then the EFL should really continue to pay the salaries of the staff and players indefinitely, until and unless someone turns up and bails the innocent football club out of the mess that the EFL has allowed the club to get into.

Obviously in reality that is never going to happen. But it is so, so, so disgustingly wrong that someone can do what Dale (and his predecessor, both with the help and approval of the EFL) has done - rob a town of its football club, players and staff of their livelihoods, many local businesses of their main source of income, and the local community of an institution that does a lot more than just fielding a team once a week. Shaun Harvey and Debbie Jevons shouldn't be allowed near football ever again. 

MrLargo said:

Covered End said:

AFKABartram said:

Just because a step was taken 30 years ago doesn’t mean it’s the right step to take now.

Everything should be done to save a football club. Punish it, yes, but don’t kill it when the people it means most to are just innocent passengers.

Don't forget my understanding is that the staff haven't been fully paid by the club for months.
I believe the EFL have been paying half of the salaries for the last 3/4 months,
How many months should the EFL pay the wages for ? 6 months, 12 months ?

Sorry to keep harping on with the same tedious point, but if someone can takeover a football club under the EFL's noses and then stop paying salaries within 4 months of taking over (as Dale did at Bury), then the EFL should really continue to pay the salaries of the staff and players indefinitely, until and unless someone turns up and bails the innocent football club out of the mess that the EFL has allowed the club to get into.

Obviously in reality that is never going to happen. But it is so, so, so disgustingly wrong that someone can do what Dale (and his predecessor, both with the help and approval of the EFL) has done - rob a town of its football club, players and staff of their livelihoods, many local businesses of their main source of income, and the local community of an institution that does a lot more than just fielding a team once a week. Shaun Harvey and Debbie Jevons shouldn't be allowed near football ever again. 

They've got enough money to do so too. Shaun Harvey's bonus could have been put to much better use.

MrLargo said:

Covered End said:

MrLargo said:

Covered End said:

AFKABartram said:

Just because a step was taken 30 years ago doesn’t mean it’s the right step to take now.

Everything should be done to save a football club. Punish it, yes, but don’t kill it when the people it means most to are just innocent passengers.

Don't forget my understanding is that the staff haven't been fully paid by the club for months.
I believe the EFL have been paying half of the salaries for the last 3/4 months,
How many months should the EFL pay the wages for ? 6 months, 12 months ?

Sorry to keep harping on with the same tedious point, but if someone can takeover a football club under the EFL's noses and then stop paying salaries within 4 months of taking over (as Dale did at Bury), then the EFL should really continue to pay the salaries of the staff and players indefinitely, until and unless someone turns up and bails the innocent football club out of the mess that the EFL has allowed the club to get into.

Obviously in reality that is never going to happen. But it is so, so, so disgustingly wrong that someone can do what Dale (and his predecessor, both with the help and approval of the EFL) has done - rob a town of its football club, players and staff of their livelihoods, many local businesses of their main source of income, and the local community of an institution that does a lot more than just fielding a team once a week. Shaun Harvey and Debbie Jevons shouldn't be allowed near football ever again. 

A fair point. The EFL have dropped themselves in it, by breaking their rules, in allowing Dale to take over.
Perhaps, they would have been better off letting Bury go into liquidation last December ?

I do think the last chance saloon should have been last December. I suspect Bury and Bolton are far from the only clubs where the EFL have let a cowboy owner in just in order to postpone the inevitable moment when the shit hits the fan.

Remember they let the Sunderland take over through last summer, against the threat of liquidation.  Now they are on the verg of a big take over with the chancers (who bought the club with the clubs money) pocketing a small fortune. 

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

The deadline for Bury should've been midnight on the day before the season started. If no takeover completed by then, then they were out. None of this postponing games week by week, we'll give you until the end of next week, oh now we'll give you another week, another fortnight etc etc. Would've saved a lot of hassle.

Or once they hadn't done that minus 20, or what ever points for entering admin, forfeit every game you don't play 3-0, plus another minus 3 points per game missed. Easier than relegation after the fixtures and basically confirmed relegation. 

Cafc43v3r said:

MrLargo said:

Covered End said:

MrLargo said:

Covered End said:

AFKABartram said:

Just because a step was taken 30 years ago doesn’t mean it’s the right step to take now.

Everything should be done to save a football club. Punish it, yes, but don’t kill it when the people it means most to are just innocent passengers.

Don't forget my understanding is that the staff haven't been fully paid by the club for months.
I believe the EFL have been paying half of the salaries for the last 3/4 months,
How many months should the EFL pay the wages for ? 6 months, 12 months ?

Sorry to keep harping on with the same tedious point, but if someone can takeover a football club under the EFL's noses and then stop paying salaries within 4 months of taking over (as Dale did at Bury), then the EFL should really continue to pay the salaries of the staff and players indefinitely, until and unless someone turns up and bails the innocent football club out of the mess that the EFL has allowed the club to get into.

Obviously in reality that is never going to happen. But it is so, so, so disgustingly wrong that someone can do what Dale (and his predecessor, both with the help and approval of the EFL) has done - rob a town of its football club, players and staff of their livelihoods, many local businesses of their main source of income, and the local community of an institution that does a lot more than just fielding a team once a week. Shaun Harvey and Debbie Jevons shouldn't be allowed near football ever again. 

A fair point. The EFL have dropped themselves in it, by breaking their rules, in allowing Dale to take over.
Perhaps, they would have been better off letting Bury go into liquidation last December ?

I do think the last chance saloon should have been last December. I suspect Bury and Bolton are far from the only clubs where the EFL have let a cowboy owner in just in order to postpone the inevitable moment when the shit hits the fan.

Remember they let the Sunderland take over through last summer, against the threat of liquidation.  Now they are on the verg of a big take over with the chancers (who bought the club with the clubs money) pocketing a small fortune. 

Luck rather than judgement though. Not the way a sport should be regulated. 

Cafc43v3r said:

MrLargo said:

Cafc43v3r said:

MrLargo said:

Covered End said:

MrLargo said:

Covered End said:

AFKABartram said:

Just because a step was taken 30 years ago doesn’t mean it’s the right step to take now.

Everything should be done to save a football club. Punish it, yes, but don’t kill it when the people it means most to are just innocent passengers.

Don't forget my understanding is that the staff haven't been fully paid by the club for months.
I believe the EFL have been paying half of the salaries for the last 3/4 months,
How many months should the EFL pay the wages for ? 6 months, 12 months ?

Sorry to keep harping on with the same tedious point, but if someone can takeover a football club under the EFL's noses and then stop paying salaries within 4 months of taking over (as Dale did at Bury), then the EFL should really continue to pay the salaries of the staff and players indefinitely, until and unless someone turns up and bails the innocent football club out of the mess that the EFL has allowed the club to get into.

Obviously in reality that is never going to happen. But it is so, so, so disgustingly wrong that someone can do what Dale (and his predecessor, both with the help and approval of the EFL) has done - rob a town of its football club, players and staff of their livelihoods, many local businesses of their main source of income, and the local community of an institution that does a lot more than just fielding a team once a week. Shaun Harvey and Debbie Jevons shouldn't be allowed near football ever again. 

A fair point. The EFL have dropped themselves in it, by breaking their rules, in allowing Dale to take over.
Perhaps, they would have been better off letting Bury go into liquidation last December ?

I do think the last chance saloon should have been last December. I suspect Bury and Bolton are far from the only clubs where the EFL have let a cowboy owner in just in order to postpone the inevitable moment when the shit hits the fan.

Remember they let the Sunderland take over through last summer, against the threat of liquidation.  Now they are on the verg of a big take over with the chancers (who bought the club with the clubs money) pocketing a small fortune. 

Luck rather than judgement though. Not the way a sport should be regulated. 

No its not, its easy to criticise from the out side but if it was your "in tray" and the options on the table were liquidate a 100 year plus old institution that has touched the lives of tens of thousands of people or kick the can down the road would you press the liquidation button?

Maybe I would, maybe i wouldn't.  Thankfully I don't have to and can sit on my sofa and critic those that have to. 

That's not the options though. There would have been rescue offers for Bury and Bolton last time they changed ownership, just as there were this time around. If they'd done their job properly with Bury, they could have blocked Dale and smoked out a decent buyer last time, rather than letting him make a bad situation worse and then having to try and find that decent buyer in now challenging circumstances.