Hyperandrogenism / Caster Semenya & others

nth london addick said:

It’s 100% right that they bring it to a level playing field 

what’s she scared of healthy competition for once 

Nah, mate, get rid of gender categories and have Katie Taylor fight Gervonta Davis at super featherweight and then, when she shows that gender is nothing but a construct, she can go up against Lomachenko at lightweight and shock the world.

the recent Paddy Power 'football captain's dilemma' comedy advert sums up sport's, perhaps even society's present predicament over gender ((:>) 

MuttleyCAFC said:

I suppose one solution is not to call it women's sport but sport for people with testosterone levels between x and y. But not sure that would work. 

I don't think they should use "x" and "y". 

I just think she’s a natural genetic outlier. Yes - it maybe difficult (and unlucky) for her competitors.....but as others have said....a very slippery slope if the sport now condones (and even demands) performance affecting drug taking to level the field. 

https://twitter.com/clxddxgh/status/1123553314866696192 

SuedeAdidas said:

I just think she’s a natural genetic outlier. Yes - it maybe difficult (and unlucky) for her competitors.....but as others have said....a very slippery slope if the sport now condones (and even demands) performance affecting drug taking to level the field. 

I agree - this happens in other sports, like swimmer Ian Thorpe's size 17 feet, or Usain Bolt's stride length.  It is difficult when they are in their sporting prime, and their fellow athletes are in effect competing for Silver, but the alternatives seem worse.

I put this into a different catagory to trans sports people, but fear the two are becoming conflated.  

Unisex sport really is not the answer - aside from equestrian events there are very few sports where men and women can compete on a level playing field.  Yes there is a lot of overlap in physique in the population as a whole, but an adult elite sportsman will always have a physical advantage over an elite sportswoman. 

This difference in physique is also likely to apply to a transwoman athlete who went through puberty as a man.  For example, she will have a male shape pelvis, which is more efficient for running.  I cannot see a way of making competition with those who were female from birth "fair".  And sadly I have no answer to how to avoid discrimination against trans people in elite sport, while being fair to people who have been female from birth.

Covered End said:

DaveMehmet said:

Goonerhater said:

Load of old bollox

I don't think it's that much, just high testosterone levels.

The sex test results were never published officially, but some results were leaked in the press and are widely discussed, resulting in claims about Semenya having an intersex trait.[30][31.

Intersex people are individuals born with any of several variations in sex characteristics including chromosomes, gonads, sex hormones, or genitals that, according to the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, "do not fit the typical definitions for male or female bodies".

Not conforming to a binary definition of biological sex? I'm sick of this virtue-signalling, snowflakey, woke "Nature."

The way I see it, we decided upon binary groupings and dichotomy (against the advice of Aristotle) and now we should deal with it. She's a human being, who happens to be a woman, who happens to have a natural advantage in a sporting event.

N01R4M said:

SuedeAdidas said:

I just think she’s a natural genetic outlier. Yes - it maybe difficult (and unlucky) for her competitors.....but as others have said....a very slippery slope if the sport now condones (and even demands) performance affecting drug taking to level the field. 

I agree - this happens in other sports, like swimmer Ian Thorpe's size 17 feet, or Usain Bolt's stride length.  It is difficult when they are in their sporting prime, and their fellow athletes are in effect competing for Silver, but the alternatives seem worse.

I put this into a different catagory to trans sports people, but fear the two are becoming conflated.  

Unisex sport really is not the answer - aside from equestrian events there are very few sports where men and women can compete on a level playing field.  Yes there is a lot of overlap in physique in the population as a whole, but an adult elite sportsman will always have a physical advantage over an elite sportswoman. 

This difference in physique is also likely to apply to a transwoman athlete who went through puberty as a man.  For example, she will have a male shape pelvis, which is more efficient for running.  I cannot see a way of making competition with those who were female from birth "fair".  And sadly I have no answer to how to avoid discrimination against trans people in elite sport, while being fair to people who have been female from birth.

Why not have 3 sporting 'gender categories' .. male, female, transgender .. 'grading' is done for parasports. 

Utter bollox

MuttleyCAFC said:

Maybe it shows what a great game football is. I mean Messi is not particularly tall and he is the best in the world. Mind you, taking nothing away from our excellent women's football team, but any half decent amateur side, and a few less decent than that, would beat them comfortably.

And he was injected regularly with growth hormones when he first signed for Barcelona.

I agree with the female Athletic opponents of Caster Semenya, it's embarrassing to watch someone who has a male physique  and more testosterone than many male athletes, be allowed to run against female runners.

The leek about intersex issues sounds correct. I don't believe one person's bizarre situation should trump every female athlete in the 800 or 1500M.

If Semenya competed in the hammer or shot the testosterone level maybe set at a higher level ?

Don't conflate Michael Phelps wingspan or Bjorn Borg low heart beat with the Caster Semenya situation.

Just watched Semenya win in second gear over 800m in the diamond League.
Just plain embarrassing for the sport of female athletics.