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Michael Jackson , this is it
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These two men in the documentary are a complete mess at times and you can see they are suffering so badly mentally. The abuse had overtaken their lives . No actor could fake that .4
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Which is why i said:MuttleyCAFC said:It is not behaviour I would be happy with, but there is a big difference, even though I agree it is wrong, from doing that and what he is being accused of. You can't just lump it all in together.
Best case scenario, he abused young innocent boys.
Worst case scenario, he molested young innocent boys.
So you're right, it's not a fact anyone was molested, it is however a fact that those young boys were abused.2 -
Well in his song he 'gotta be startin something'.MuttleyCAFC said:
i agree it is abnormal behaviour and provides the opportunity for abuse. But there is a big difference between sharing his bed and doing nothing, and sharing his bed and doing something. It is incredible that parents allowed this to happen. I can't be certain what went on in his bed, but it isn't something I feel comfortable justifying either.Stu_of_Kunming said:
You never heard him admitting to sharing his bed with young boys? That's abuse, plain and simple。MuttleyCAFC said:
I don't recall seeing or hearing anything where he openly admitted it. What troubles me is the court case he settled.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Don't believe he did what? Abused young innocent boys? He's on record admitting it, that's a fact.cafc-4-life said:No matter what, I doubt we'll ever know. I don't believe he did it.
In the end, you'll still be singing or enjoying his songs when they come on over any set of speakers whilst you're out. That's the only FACT.
Can't say I've ever enjoyed his music at all.0 -
I am saying it was wrong, and to do it, he wasn't right in the head. But it is different to molesting them. Now he may well have molested them as described in the documentary, and I have said I think he probably did molest kids, but the accusations from the documentary are focusing on serious sexual assaults. You can't lump sleeping in the same bed with the accusations.
If all he ever did was sleep in the same bed, it would back up the man child persona. Which should have been stopped, but is on a different level to what he is being accused of.2 -
Your original comment was that you'd never heard him admiting to abusing young boys, I assume you now accept that was a mistake?
To be clear, I am saying abused, not molested.
(although I believe he was a dirty nonce who molested them)1 -
Your response is worrying ... sleeping in the same bed as a kid is MENTAL ABUSE at the absolute minimum. Your response is a form of vindication!MuttleyCAFC said:I am saying it was wrong, and to do it, he wasn't right in the head. But it is different to molesting them. Now he may well have molested them as described in the documentary, and I have said I think he probably did molest kids, but the accusations from the documentary are focusing on serious sexual assaults. You can't lump sleeping in the same bed with the accusations.1 -
No, because I meant abusing them sexually. That is what the discussion on this thread is about isn't it? So we applied a different meaning to the word. I misunderstood yours, you misunderstood mine.
I think he is guilty by the way - just can't be sure.0 -
He did a few years after she did, when he did it everyone was "Oh how terrible." When she did it the family closed ranks and the media response was skeptical.Talal said:
I'm sure one of the guys did mention it in a documentary/interview. May have even been Michael.cfgs said:I remember Latoya accusing their father of abuse, from memory just for being overly pushy and violent if they didn't do as he said, but the rest of the children denied it and closed ranks. She was always a loan voice.0 -
Your response is worrying if you think anything I said vindicates it.2
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MuttleyCAFC said:I am saying it was wrong, and to do it, he wasn't right in the head. But it is different to molesting them. Now he may well have molested them as described in the documentary, and I have said I think he probably did molest kids, but the accusations from the documentary are focusing on serious sexual assaults. You can't lump sleeping in the same bed with the accusations.
If all he ever did was sleep in the same bed, it would back up the man child persona. Which should have been stopped, but is on a different level to what he is being accused of.
Did you read the summary in the Vanity Fair link?
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No - what did it say? I watched the documentary.0
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Don't backtrack - you clearly stated it is 'different to molesting them' - molestation can be physical or emotional - either way it is abuse.MuttleyCAFC said:Your response is worrying if you think anything I said vindicates it.
Cannot believe you are trying to divert this on to me.
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If you really believe that, you really need to go and re-read the entire exchange.MuttleyCAFC said:Your response is worrying if you think anything I said vindicates it.1 -
I'm not backtracking at all. Any reasonable person can see that. I think it is wrong to sleep in the same bed - I said that from the off - but it is possible he did do from some confused innocence, Personally I think he assaulted kids, but to try and pick on the detail when it is clear what I meant is only showing yourself up.1
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Read in to what you want.... Just a few things to consider.
Tea time 🐸☕️
— Brandi Jackson (@BJackson82) February 11, 2019
Wade and I were together for over 7 years, but I bet that isn’t in his “documentary” because it would ruin his timeline. And did I mention, it was my uncle, #MichaelJackson, who set us up? Wade is not a victim, #WadeRobsonIsaLiarEver been sued before? Curious. Innocent people settle all the time. Law suits kill your creativity. If you’re referring to what happened in 1993 you need to educate yourself #justiceformichael https://t.co/rGDX0Hu3qY
— James Bourne (@JamesBourne) February 13, 2019Court judgement. 14 counts NOT GUILTY! 26 years of information out there. read it all! Unreliable witnesses - No proof - Innocent until proven Guilty. https://t.co/uwEKBpaZPL
— James Bourne (@JamesBourne) February 26, 20190 -
It was not clear - I am not the only one saying it.MuttleyCAFC said:I'm not backtracking at all. Any reasonable person can see that. I think it is wrong to sleep in the same bed - I said that from the off - but it is possible he did do from some confused innocence, Personally I think he assaulted kids, but to try and pick on the detail when it is clear what I meant is only showing yourself up.
There is something in your character which does not allow you to admit when you are wrong ... and on this particular subject, it is not a good thing.2 -
MuttleyCAFC said:No - what did it say? I watched the documentary.
# 6. Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jackson’s on the same pages. Jackson also had bondage sculptures of women with ball gags in their mouths on his desk, in full view of the boys who slept there.
# 10. In a 2002 documentary, Living with Michael Jackson, Jackson told Martin Bashir there was nothing wrong with sharing his bed with boys.
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Okay I obviously don't know how to post tweets. I've got to retire.3
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You can't just add words to things other people have said in order to construct your own interpretation, then call it picking on the detail when you get corrected.MuttleyCAFC said:I'm not backtracking at all. Any reasonable person can see that. I think it is wrong to sleep in the same bed - I said that from the off - but it is possible he did do from some confused innocence, Personally I think he assaulted kids, but to try and pick on the detail when it is clear what I meant is only showing yourself up.
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Something else to consider - Michael Jackson was and still is, the kind of god like superstar who attracts the weirdest kind of fanatic5
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I wasn't aware of #6, which is pretty incriminating. And makes it much more likely he was guilty from my perspective. But I haven't been saying he is innocent.i_b_b_o_r_g said:MuttleyCAFC said:No - what did it say? I watched the documentary.
# 6. Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jackson’s on the same pages. Jackson also had bondage sculptures of women with ball gags in their mouths on his desk, in full view of the boys who slept there.
# 10. In a 2002 documentary, Living with Michael Jackson, Jackson told Martin Bashir there was nothing wrong with sharing his bed with boys.
And Stu, I was merely saying how I interpreted the word.0 -
If the person saying that is right, he actually is a liar. Depends on who you believe. The documentary didn't seem to question that, took it at face value. Though I am simply playing devil's advocate here, I do believe him and do believe the accusations about Jackson.ValleyGary said:#WadeRobinsonIsALiar is probably one of the cuntiest things seen. What’s wrong with people?0 -
In the future maybe it's safer to stick to dictionary definitions, rathar than made up ones.
It's good to know that as a minimum you agree he was a child abuser.0 -
The problem is that the people in the documentary may be lying or telling the truth - if they are lying it does not mean Jackson is innocent. But there is a cloud over Jackson and most people think he is guilty. I have always been troubled by him settling as case for millions of dollars, to me that isn't what an innocent man would do.0
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The documentary was very one sided and yes I agree that children should not have been sleeping in the same bed, but the we all know MJ was a bit strange and may have felt like he was befriending them and maybe the child asked and he felt like he could not say no. But he liked the company and enjoyed acting like a child. Just throwing it out there...thenewbie said:
If the person saying that is right, he actually is a liar. Depends on who you believe. The documentary didn't seem to question that, took it at face value. Though I am simply playing devil's advocate here, I do believe him and do believe the accusations about Jackson.ValleyGary said:#WadeRobinsonIsALiar is probably one of the cuntiest things seen. What’s wrong with people?0 -
There is no defending the actions of a child abuser, Give it up.cafc-4-life said:
The documentary was very one sided and yes I agree that children should not have been sleeping in the same bed, but the we all know MJ was a bit strange and may have felt like he was befriending them and maybe the child asked and he felt like he could not say no. But he liked the company and enjoyed acting like a child. Just throwing it out there...thenewbie said:
If the person saying that is right, he actually is a liar. Depends on who you believe. The documentary didn't seem to question that, took it at face value. Though I am simply playing devil's advocate here, I do believe him and do believe the accusations about Jackson.ValleyGary said:#WadeRobinsonIsALiar is probably one of the cuntiest things seen. What’s wrong with people?5 -
The problem is, Jimmy Saville was a bit strange. When society accepts the behaviour because it is a bit strange, it provides an opportunity for the peadophile. People seem to be intoxicated by fame, and I am referring to parents here. I mean, they may have trusted Jackson, even liked him, but there should have been things that were not allowed.
Saville was committing his crimes and spending Christmas with the PM. We even saw video evidence of his behaviour towards young girls. he was give a kids tv programme!0 -
You’re just throwing it out there that’s he’s ‘A bit strange’ and then trying to pass the responsibility onto young children. Jesus Christ.cafc-4-life said:
The documentary was very one sided and yes I agree that children should not have been sleeping in the same bed, but the we all know MJ was a bit strange and may have felt like he was befriending them and maybe the child asked and he felt like he could not say no. But he liked the company and enjoyed acting like a child. Just throwing it out there...thenewbie said:
If the person saying that is right, he actually is a liar. Depends on who you believe. The documentary didn't seem to question that, took it at face value. Though I am simply playing devil's advocate here, I do believe him and do believe the accusations about Jackson.ValleyGary said:#WadeRobinsonIsALiar is probably one of the cuntiest things seen. What’s wrong with people?
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I think the parents in this case were wooed by fame and mixing with a superstar. One set of parents seemed to try and protect their son at the beginning but the Wade's didn't even try to set boundaries.MuttleyCAFC said:The problem is, Jimmy Saville was a bit strange. When society accepts the behaviour because it is a bit strange, it provides an opportunity for the peadophile. People seem to be intoxicated by fame, and I am referring to parents here. I mean, they may have trusted Jackson, even liked him, but there should have been things that were not allowed.2 -
cafc-4-life said:
The documentary was very one sided and yes I agree that children should not have been sleeping in the same bed, but the we all know MJ was a bit strange and may have felt like he was befriending them and maybe the child asked and he felt like he could not say no. But he liked the company and enjoyed acting like a child. Just throwing it out there...thenewbie said:
If the person saying that is right, he actually is a liar. Depends on who you believe. The documentary didn't seem to question that, took it at face value. Though I am simply playing devil's advocate here, I do believe him and do believe the accusations about Jackson.ValleyGary said:#WadeRobinsonIsALiar is probably one of the cuntiest things seen. What’s wrong with people?
Just throwing what out there?0
