Pubs, and the demise of.

Some of you may be aware that the Porcupine in Mottingham has closed down and been bought by Lidl.
My personal view is that the place was a dump and would rather it became a Harvester or something along those lines but 1400 people have signed a petition calling for the pub to be saved.
Have Pubs had their day or what?

Comments

Riviera

Just to show the other side of the pub trade for a moment can I mention an absolutely wonderful pub I recently visited. I had been recommended this pub by a number of people over the last few years and popped in to check it out last week. It is called The Rose & Crown and is in Halstead Nr Knockholt just outside of Orpington. It is the quintessential English village pub, small and cosy and has SIX real ales on hand-pump, and good ones too. The food is apparently excellent and discounted for us >50's, hooray! A lovely garden and quite a few events.
https://www.facebook.com/The-Rose-Crown-Halstead-140309286013805/?utm_source=tripadvisor&utm_medium=referral

SoundAsa£

May 2013, first comment, Porcupine in Mottingham. 5 and a half years later, still boarded up and nothing happening. People in Mottingham deprived of a cheaper supermarket for what! Bob Neill must be very proud.

If ever a pub needed closing down that was it......without doubt the worst pub I have ever had the misfortune to set foot in.
Sorry Mottingham, but it simply had to go.

SoundAsa£

I drink in the Red Lion in Bromley North. A proper traditional old back street boozer. I was in there earlier and looked around the place and realised I was the youngest in there by about 20 years (I’m 44). There is a crowd similar age to me that get in there but when the old boys go, the place will collapse as it just won’t have the regulars to make any money. Give it ten years and it will either be flats, or some desperate place going through various owners trying to reincarnate itself before turning into flats.

Nonsense mate!

Viewfinder

Just to show the other side of the pub trade for a moment can I mention an absolutely wonderful pub I recently visited. I had been recommended this pub by a number of people over the last few years and popped in to check it out last week. It is called The Rose & Crown and is in Halstead Nr Knockholt just outside of Orpington. It is the quintessential English village pub, small and cosy and has SIX real ales on hand-pump, and good ones too. The food is apparently excellent and discounted for us >50's, hooray! A lovely garden and quite a few events.
https://www.facebook.com/The-Rose-Crown-Halstead-140309286013805/?utm_source=tripadvisor&utm_medium=referral

I can endorse Riviera's recommendation: discovered this brick-and-flint village pub after a hike around Halstead and Chevening. Convivial bar and Larkin's Traditional Bitter in top nick.

Baldybonce

May 2013, first comment, Porcupine in Mottingham. 5 and a half years later, still boarded up and nothing happening. People in Mottingham deprived of a cheaper supermarket for what! Bob Neill must be very proud.
If ever a pub needed closing down that was it......without doubt the worst pub I have ever had the misfortune to set foot in.
Sorry Mottingham, but it simply had to go.

Agree 100%.
Unfortunately a nice new supermarket didn't fit in with the great and the good of the Mottingham residents association, none of whom would be seen dead in the porcupine.

lolwray

May 2013, first comment, Porcupine in Mottingham. 5 and a half years later, still boarded up and nothing happening. People in Mottingham deprived of a cheaper supermarket for what! Bob Neill must be very proud.
If ever a pub needed closing down that was it......without doubt the worst pub I have ever had the misfortune to set foot in.
Sorry Mottingham, but it simply had to go.

may have been OK 30 years ago but i can remember picking my daughters up from a party in the hall there .It turned out to be an awful place.I dont think the plot is big enough for an Aldi or such like though .Mottingham could do with a decent well run pub though even a micropub

charltonkeston

May 2013, first comment, Porcupine in Mottingham. 5 and a half years later, still boarded up and nothing happening. People in Mottingham deprived of a cheaper supermarket for what! Bob Neill must be very proud.
If ever a pub needed closing down that was it......without doubt the worst pub I have ever had the misfortune to set foot in.
Sorry Mottingham, but it simply had to go.

It was never the best but in its present state it certainly has added to the general decline to the “village “. With its grounds, style of building and location it looks like it could be a decent pub/restaurant. Some of the people who used to drink there certainly did nothing to add to the appeal of the place. I met a friend in there one week day evening, he was visiting from America. It was about equi distance for both of us so was handy. His first comment was, this looks rough. I jokingly told him it’s not too bad and the locals won’t start fighting for some hours. The words had just left my mouth when locals started beating the crap out of each other.

DaveMehmet

May 2013, first comment, Porcupine in Mottingham. 5 and a half years later, still boarded up and nothing happening. People in Mottingham deprived of a cheaper supermarket for what! Bob Neill must be very proud.
If ever a pub needed closing down that was it......without doubt the worst pub I have ever had the misfortune to set foot in.
Sorry Mottingham, but it simply had to go.
It was never the best but in its present state it certainly has added to the general decline to the “village “. With its grounds, style of building and location it looks like it could be a decent pub/restaurant. Some of the people who used to drink there certainly did nothing to add to the appeal of the place. I met a friend in there one week day evening, he was visiting from America. It was about equi distance for both of us so was handy. His first comment was, this looks rough. I jokingly told him it’s not too bad and the locals won’t start fighting for some hours. The words had just left my mouth when locals started beating the crap out of each other.

Didn't realise Mottingham was in the middle of the Atlantic

Baldybonce

The Royal will be the next Mottingham pub to go.

Vincenzo

Mottingham needs the Porky more than it needs a Lidl.

So it's been rough, that doesn't mean it has to remain so. You just need the right manager. There's been a pub there since the 1400s. Being turned into a supermarket would be tragic.

bobmunro

Mottingham needs the Porky more than it needs a Lidl.

So it's been rough, that doesn't mean it has to remain so. You just need the right manager. There's been a pub there since the 1400s. Being turned into a supermarket would be tragic.

The reason it will go/has gone is simply because there isn't enough business to sustain it. If it is a community need then community ownership (subsidy) is the only real option if it isn't commercially viable. Fewer people drink in pubs - that isn't going to change.

Just a thought - would it be as tragic if there had been a supermarket (big ye olde shoppe) there since the 1400s and it turned into a pub?

Elthamaddick

The Volunteer in Bexleyheath, now run by local residents, has a really nice ambience. Was in their last night and really friendly atmosphere and guitarist playing in the background.

great little pub, as is the Robin Hood and Little John in Bexleyheath

bolloxbolder

The Volunteer in Bexleyheath, now run by local residents, has a really nice ambience. Was in their last night and really friendly atmosphere and guitarist playing in the background.
great little pub, as is the Robin Hood and Little John in Bexleyheath

Yep two top pubs on our Bexleyheath pub crawl which always ends up in the Earl Haig, close to my home.

Riviera

Quite a bit of pub news today, Antic announce the sale of 11 of their pubs including the Baring Hall (the only one I know of), the others are:
Earl Haig (Not Bexleyheath)
Farrs School of Dance
Hope
Jam Circus
Manor of Walworth
Pratts & Payne
Sylvan Post
Suttons Radio
Walker Briggs
Wallington Arms

The Beer Rebellion Gypsy Hill is closing on Friday but will reopen as some sort of bar.

The guv of The Star, Plumstead Common leaves on 6th November. His name is Rob and I guess he is the one who tried to make The Star upmarket and upset a lot of old regulars? @Curb_It?

Vincenzo

Bit of a shocker that.

WTF is going on with Antic? They've already done administration once I believe, yet continued to expand. Sounds like a real failure of management. I don't know all those pubs but the ones I do know are very good. Biggest surprise there is the Sylvan Post, which has always had a good crowd when I've been there. Sutton's Radio would have done really well if they'd got their arse in gear and put in a kitchen. Manor of Walworth has only been open 5 minutes.

Sorry to see Beer Rebellion close. Really liked it there. But it is being taken over by Bullfinch brewery, so presumably will be a taproom for them.

I know some won't mourn the guy from the Star going. I hope it gets a good landlord again.

rananegra

Antic are primarily a property company who run some pubs, hence it's not their main focus. There's also a unionisation drive going on there, which may be driving some of this. They f***d up with the Ravensbourne in Lewisham, closed it so that it wouldn't compete with Suttons Radio and now are reducing the number of acceptable pubs in Lewisham again (it's not a high number to start with). Hope someone sensible buys these places.

Vincenzo

Thing is, Antic, or the people they hire, often run decent pubs. There's usually a good ale selection, well kept and there's usually a £3 pint on the go. I like what they do with their pubs, often with a nod to the place's former name or use.

If they are primarily a property company, I'd be seriously concerned that these places are going to be sold for flats, after they have helped regenerate an area. Given the location of some of them, I can't see that happening. I think they have just massively f****d up.

Curb_It

@Starinnaddick have you seen the news above. I saw the landlord has put in on his FB page and on Twitter that he is going on that day.

We shall see. I'm saying nothing for now as he once tried to join this page to discuss @iainment post about the time he barred him and his partner.

rananegra

Thing is, Antic, or the people they hire, often run decent pubs. There's usually a good ale selection, well kept and there's usually a £3 pint on the go. I like what they do with their pubs, often with a nod to the place's former name or use.

If they are primarily a property company, I'd be seriously concerned that these places are going to be sold for flats, after they have helped regenerate an area. Given the location of some of them, I can't see that happening. I think they have just massively f****d up.

I don't think they're "bad" pubs, just not as good as they could be.
Having now read the article tweeted by SEL Camra, I think it's clear that they are open to continue running the pubs, but are selling off the freeholds of the buildings they are in. Many of them will have other businesses on long leases in them. Them continuing to run the pub is secondary- they are primarily interested in developing sites - hence their closure of the Ravensbourne so that it could become flats and the marketing of the pub part separately (and unsuccessfully, perhaps deliberately so).

EastStand

Quite a bit of pub news today, Antic announce the sale of 11 of their pubs including the Baring Hall (the only one I know of), the others are:
Earl Haig (Not Bexleyheath)
Farrs School of Dance - Dalston
Hope - Peckham
Jam Circus - Crofton Park
Manor of Walworth - Walworth Road
Pratts & Payne - Streatham High Road
Sylvan Post - Forest Hill (5 mins walk from station)
Suttons Radio - Lewisham High Street
Walker Briggs - Westow Hill
Wallington Arms - right outside Wellington Station

The Beer Rebellion Gypsy Hill is closing on Friday but will reopen as some sort of bar.

The guv of The Star, Plumstead Common leaves on 6th November. His name is Rob and I guess he is the one who tried to make The Star upmarket and upset a lot of old regulars? @Curb_It?

Well that’s shitty. Jam Circus is the pub I used to work in and the Post is 5 mins from my flat. I also really like the Hope.

They’ll all be flats, same as the Ravensbourne now is. All in great locations.

Hastingsaddick

Try The Dacre Arms.....sandwiched in the back streets between Lee High Road and Lee Terrace near to Blackheath Village.
It’s a little gem!
I think this is the boozer at the top of Lee Church Street.

The last time I went there was around '85. I used to live 300 yards away when I was a kid.

Max Wall used to drink in there.
He also drank in The Three Tuns in Blackheath village and lunched most Sundays in The Trafalgar Tavern. Sadly as I posted before the Dacres is not the pub it was.
True......but it’s still worth a visit if you’re ever in the area.
It still retains that quintessential local atmosphere and attracts, shall we say, a much classier clientele than the average Lewisham pub.
A relaxing friendly pub.......I like it.

Took my wife's cousin in there recently and she was impressed, as you say better then most of the pubs in that area.

i_b_b_o_r_g

The Volunteer in Bexleyheath, now run by local residents, has a really nice ambience. Was in their last night and really friendly atmosphere and guitarist playing in the background.

We used meet up up the for a Sunday sesh 9n the odd occasion

i_b_b_o_r_g

May 2013, first comment, Porcupine in Mottingham. 5 and a half years later, still boarded up and nothing happening. People in Mottingham deprived of a cheaper supermarket for what! Bob Neill must be very proud.

I thought that was turned into a Lidl ages ago, was my local for a long time

Baldybonce

May 2013, first comment, Porcupine in Mottingham. 5 and a half years later, still boarded up and nothing happening. People in Mottingham deprived of a cheaper supermarket for what! Bob Neill must be very proud.
I thought that was turned into a Lidl ages ago, was my local for a long time

No, the great and good of Mottingham want to retain a pub they probably never set foot in. As BG says Bob Neil and his cohorts must be proud.

lolwray

A Lidl supermarket would ruin mottingham in my view

clive

A Lidl supermarket would ruin mottingham in my view

An Aldi supermarket would be much better.

Rob7Lee

A Lidl supermarket would ruin mottingham in my view

The current eye sore of a boarded up semi derelict pub isn’t really doing wonders for Mottingham.

Something needs to happen to it, and I don’t see a pub working there anymore, maybe a restaurant might.

Covered End

A Lidl supermarket would ruin mottingham in my view
The current eye sore of a boarded up semi derelict pub isn’t really doing wonders for Mottingham.

Something needs to happen to it, and I don’t see a pub working there anymore, maybe a restaurant might.

There's an Indian restaurant opposite.

cafcdave123

A Lidl supermarket would ruin mottingham in my view
The current eye sore of a boarded up semi derelict pub isn’t really doing wonders for Mottingham.

Something needs to happen to it, and I don’t see a pub working there anymore, maybe a restaurant might.

Brass house?

Starinnaddick

@Starinnaddick have you seen the news above. I saw the landlord has put in on his FB page and on Twitter that he is going on that day.

We shall see. I'm saying nothing for now as he once tried to join this page to discuss @iainment post about the time he barred him and his partner.

Hi I've only just seen Riviera's post and there have been so many false dawns that I will wait for it to happen .Perhaps he's going out with a big bang and bonfire . Lol