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23 Russian diplomats expelled and other actions.
Comments
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I would be classed as Corbyn supporter but on this he has got it completely wrong in refusing to accept the obvious IMO, this is not risking a world war, as we don't want that, none of our allies want that & neither does Putin despite his regular shows of strength.
We can't just keep letting Russia get away with acting however it likes.
I do still have doubts that the governments of western nations will do the right thing though by hitting Putin & his pals where it really hurts by banning them, their families & their money from being able to enter our nations, give them the pariah treatment and watch them back down.5 -
No, I think taking your time and getting it right on this works best here. Where we wanted and needed instant action like Grenfall we see the dragging of feet!0
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The situation in Europe in the 30s was completely incomparable to this. War was completely inevitable then and the UK probably shouldn't have dithered. This is...totally differentsm said:
And there was me thinking that the lesson of history was that it was appeasement that led to wars rather than keeping the peace.Greenie said:.
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Putin has been around since 1999, Grenfall was refurbished in 2015. Putin is responsible for a lot more deaths.MuttleyCAFC said:No, I think taking your time and getting it right on this works best here. Where we wanted and needed instant action like Grenfall we see the dragging of feet!
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Can't you just accept that Jermey is right? His supporters say so and that's paramount.sm said:
Putin has been around since 1999, Grenfall was refurbished in 2015. Putin is responsible for a lot more deaths.MuttleyCAFC said:No, I think taking your time and getting it right on this works best here. Where we wanted and needed instant action like Grenfall we see the dragging of feet!
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Yes, but you can't stop those deaths - He is Russian.sm said:
Putin has been around since 1999, Grenfall was refurbished in 2015. Putin is responsible for a lot more deaths.MuttleyCAFC said:No, I think taking your time and getting it right on this works best here. Where we wanted and needed instant action like Grenfall we see the dragging of feet!
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Why can't you accept he is wrong, his critics say so and that's paramount.Big_Bad_World said:
Can't you just accept that Jermey is right? His supporters say so and that's paramount.sm said:
Putin has been around since 1999, Grenfall was refurbished in 2015. Putin is responsible for a lot more deaths.MuttleyCAFC said:No, I think taking your time and getting it right on this works best here. Where we wanted and needed instant action like Grenfall we see the dragging of feet!
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I think it was more about how he said what he said. The balance, the emphasis, within his speech as a whole. There is a tradition in Parliament that when there is a real threat to the nation, the Opposition is cautious about point-scoring.Super_Eddie_Youds said:
Surely the point is Corbyn can't do any of this, and having already said they'd be tougher on finance - he's already ticked that box?sm said:
I am afraid Corbyn is rather late to the party when it comes to human rights abuses in Russia. NO I don't want a military response - but Putin, his regime and his mafia chums need to be treated like the pariahs they are - complete confiscation of all their foreign assets aka as proceeds of crime (including Chelsea FC) would be a start.Leuth said:What Corbyn has done is raise awareness of the many human rights abuses occurring within this very country. On something as thorny and murky as this I think he's best-off condemning but also suggesting a methodical way forward. What else could he do? He's already said he'll crack down on money laundering. A military response? Is that what you want?
Like i say, it seems to be who is saying it, rather than what they are saying.
I think he has a legitimate and important question about why the UK had not submitted its evidence to the independent authority on chemical weapons, before coming out and accusing Russia. However he went much further than that, casting doubt on the competence of security agencies and Porton scientists. Anyone dispassionate who had reviewed his words in advance might have said, "look Jeremy, you may feel these points about Iraq WMDs are valid, but maybe its better to let people outside Parliament say it, as many people will take it the wrong way, coming from you. Unfortunately, his key adviser on such matters apparently is Seamus Milne.
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Ah yeah, better let him kill who he wants on the streets of Britain.MuttleyCAFC said:
Yes, but you can't stop those deaths - He is Russian.sm said:
Putin has been around since 1999, Grenfall was refurbished in 2015. Putin is responsible for a lot more deaths.MuttleyCAFC said:No, I think taking your time and getting it right on this works best here. Where we wanted and needed instant action like Grenfall we see the dragging of feet!
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Exactly the argument of the appeasers before the Second World War - Corbyn is very keen to use international law against Blair/Nato/US but not Putin, why is this?MuttleyCAFC said:
Yes, but you can't stop those deaths - He is Russian.sm said:
Putin has been around since 1999, Grenfall was refurbished in 2015. Putin is responsible for a lot more deaths.MuttleyCAFC said:No, I think taking your time and getting it right on this works best here. Where we wanted and needed instant action like Grenfall we see the dragging of feet!
Remember more journalists have been murdered in Russia under Putin than those who died in Grenfell Tower.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia
There use to be a time when socialists were proud of being internationalists.3 -
At last, we're getting somewhere.MuttleyCAFC said:
Why can't you accept he is wrong, his critics say so and that's paramount.Big_Bad_World said:
Can't you just accept that Jermey is right? His supporters say so and that's paramount.sm said:
Putin has been around since 1999, Grenfall was refurbished in 2015. Putin is responsible for a lot more deaths.MuttleyCAFC said:No, I think taking your time and getting it right on this works best here. Where we wanted and needed instant action like Grenfall we see the dragging of feet!
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If I were an Arsenal fan, I wouldn’t be heading out to Moscow for the away leg of their Europa League cup tie2
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Well I am surrounded by 15 million people who if you asked them would answer in unison "Neville fucking Chamberlain", for starters.Greenie said:
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As I said above though, it's a silly comparison0
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Comparing to Neville Chamberlain is beyond ridiculous
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How about Lord Rothermere or all those so called socialists who turned a blind eye to Uncle Joe?MuttleyCAFC said:Comparing to Neville Chamberlain is beyond ridiculous
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It was the socialists who were on the streets of this country fighting the facists.sm said:
How about Lord Rothermere or all those so called socialists who turned a blind eye to Uncle Joe?MuttleyCAFC said:Comparing to Neville Chamberlain is beyond ridiculous
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Ahh old Nev again...then you dont know your history PA, its well documented that clever Nev was playing for time, he knew Adolf was on the war path, he also know that like now we have a very underfunded war machine, he also knew that Britain was his country and prioritised it above all other countries (quite right. 15 million people in other counties were not his responsibility). There is audio statement at the IWM of a member of his staff who said after 'the peace in our time' speech that Nev said to him, 'get yourself trained if you want to be in the Air Force, war is not far away'.PragueAddick said:
Well I am surrounded by 15 million people who if you asked them would answer in unison "Neville fucking Chamberlain", for starters.Greenie said:
At the time Chamberlain was pilloried for being subservient to Hitler, because he didn't puff his chest out and bang the war drum, but it transpires that he was right. However people dont want to know that because it doesn't fit in with their narrative.
Great men make the right decisions for their country not for their party, or what the average bloke in the street thinks he knows.6 -
More interesting developments - unconnected they say?
Hmmmm.
bbc
UK police have launched a murder investigation after the death of Russian businessman Nikolai Glushkov in south-west London.
Police say Mr Glushkov, whose family has been informed, died from "compression to the neck".
Police say there is, at this stage, no evidence linking the death to the incidents in Salisbury,
Mr Glushkov is the former deputy director of Russian state airline Aeroflot.
He was jailed in 1999 for five years after being charged with money laundering and fraud.1 -
What a ridiculous post.MuttleyCAFC said:No, I think taking your time and getting it right on this works best here. Where we wanted and needed instant action like Grenfall we see the dragging of feet!
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Why? - more people died. We are still having arguments on the representation on the enquiry! You think I am appeasing the Russians when I am merely saying slow down and get all the facts!1
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Nail on head, I repeat i'm no JC fan, but he's calling for prudence and proof before jumping off. The iraq reference was clumsy (and about as relevant as comparisons to chamberlain) but his message is being distorted through short term hysteria.Greenie said:
Ahh old Nev again...then you dont know your history PA, its well documented that clever Nev was playing for time, he knew Adolf was on the war path, he also know that like now we have a very underfunded war machine, he also knew that Britain was his country and prioritised it above all other countries (quite right. 15 million people in other counties were not his responsibility). There is audio statement at the IWM of a member of his staff who said after 'the peace in our time' speech that Nev said to him, 'get yourself trained if you want to be in the Air Force, war is not far away'.PragueAddick said:
Well I am surrounded by 15 million people who if you asked them would answer in unison "Neville fucking Chamberlain", for starters.Greenie said:
At the time Chamberlain was pilloried for being subservient to Hitler, because he didn't puff his chest out and bang the war drum, but it transpires that he was right. However people dont want to know that because it doesn't fit in with their narrative.
Great men make the right decisions for their country not for their party, or what the average bloke in the street thinks he knows.3 -
Not much fight shown against the likes of Putin who displays not a few fascist tendencies however.MuttleyCAFC said:
It was the socialists who were on the streets of this country fighting the facists.sm said:
How about Lord Rothermere or all those so called socialists who turned a blind eye to Uncle Joe?MuttleyCAFC said:Comparing to Neville Chamberlain is beyond ridiculous
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I've been looking at the facts on Putin for years - have you read Bill Browder's book on the death of Sergei Magnitsky?MuttleyCAFC said:Why? - more people died. We are still having arguments on the representation on the enquiry! You think I am appeasing the Russians when I am merely saying slow down and get all the facts!
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Are you honestly being serious? Go over to Russia and fight for the resistance there then! There are lots of unsavoury leaders in the world and Putin is one of them. we have a sorry history of supporting ones that have benefitted our country and we are very happy to launder dirty Russian money! What people are saying against the irrational and rabid is take a breath and do it properly and try to understand the best way to get the outcome you want and ideally the one that makes it less likely to be repeated and the world a safer place. How unreasonable is that?sm said:
Not much fight shown against the likes of Putin who displays not a few fascist tendencies however.MuttleyCAFC said:
It was the socialists who were on the streets of this country fighting the facists.sm said:
How about Lord Rothermere or all those so called socialists who turned a blind eye to Uncle Joe?MuttleyCAFC said:Comparing to Neville Chamberlain is beyond ridiculous
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Jailed By Putin who is rather selective, to say the least, when it comes to who is accused of money laundering and fraud. Remember Putin's declared income is a mere c$100k per year and he has hardly any assets other than a garage in St Pete's- but I doubt he will be handed in for tax fraud.A-R-T-H-U-R said:More interesting developments - unconnected they say?
Hmmmm.
bbc
UK police have launched a murder investigation after the death of Russian businessman Nikolai Glushkov in south-west London.
Police say Mr Glushkov, whose family has been informed, died from "compression to the neck".
Police say there is, at this stage, no evidence linking the death to the incidents in Salisbury,
Mr Glushkov is the former deputy director of Russian state airline Aeroflot.
He was jailed in 1999 for five years after being charged with money laundering and fraud.1 -
I don’t know what history you’ve been reading.Greenie said:
Ahh old Nev again...then you dont know your history PA, its well documented that clever Nev was playing for time, he knew Adolf was on the war path, he also know that like now we have a very underfunded war machine, he also knew that Britain was his country and prioritised it above all other countries (quite right. 15 million people in other counties were not his responsibility). There is audio statement at the IWM of a member of his staff who said after 'the peace in our time' speech that Nev said to him, 'get yourself trained if you want to be in the Air Force, war is not far away'.PragueAddick said:
Well I am surrounded by 15 million people who if you asked them would answer in unison "Neville fucking Chamberlain", for starters.Greenie said:
At the time Chamberlain was pilloried for being subservient to Hitler, because he didn't puff his chest out and bang the war drum, but it transpires that he was right. However people dont want to know that because it doesn't fit in with their narrative.
Great men make the right decisions for their country not for their party, or what the average bloke in the street thinks he knows.
It’s well documented the British and French empire could’ve quite easily crushed Germany before they entered czeckoslovakia. In fact, Hitler has said that was when he was most nervous. Chamberlain then got him to sign the Munich agreement that he declared “peace of our time”.
Chamberlain was more naive than anything.1
