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recent sexual harassment allegations

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  • lolwray
    lolwray Posts: 4,900
    LargeAddick said:

    Riviera said:

    SDAddick said:

    It is not that f***ing hard to not touch people without their consent and to take "no" as a definitive answer.

    You don't travel on South Eastern then?
    technically then I must be assaulted practically every day on the tube. It's got ridiculous when a brush on the knee is considered an assault or inappropriate. In my opinion it's trivialising actual assaults.

    i do know of a few cases of this nature that have come to court though
  • Riviera
    Riviera Posts: 8,167
    SDAddick said:

    Riviera said:

    SDAddick said:

    Bedsaddick said:

    All these people resigning yet the most powerful man on earth can say he likes grabbing pussy and he’s still in a job.

    There are also, I believe, 14 women who have accused him of sexual harassment of sexual assault of some kind.
    Is that an opinion or a fact?
    There were 11 who came forward last year. I thought the number had risen to 14, but that might be wrong. So we'll go with 11.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/my-pain-is-everyday-after-weinsteins-fall-trump-accusers-wonder-why-not-him/2017/10/21/bce67720-b585-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html?utm_term=.b5893482daf5

    He is currently being sued by one woman. The White House had called all of these women liars.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/my-pain-is-everyday-after-weinsteins-fall-trump-accusers-wonder-why-not-him/2017/10/21/bce67720-b585-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html?utm_term=.b5893482daf5
    Well lets just hope one of them bury the bloke.
  • Riviera
    Riviera Posts: 8,167
    Leuth said:

    LargeAddick said:

    Riviera said:

    SDAddick said:

    It is not that f***ing hard to not touch people without their consent and to take "no" as a definitive answer.

    You don't travel on South Eastern then?
    technically then I must be assaulted practically every day on the tube. It's got ridiculous when a brush on the knee is considered an assault or inappropriate. In my opinion it's trivialising actual assaults.

    Accidental brushes are NEVER characterised as assault. This is a ridiculous strawman
    Never?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/06/british-tourist-faces-jail-in-dubai-after-brushing-against-man-in-bar
  • Riviera
    Riviera Posts: 8,167
    Every now and then on threads like this somebody lightens the mood with a bit of harmless levity. Could everybody, especially our self appointed moral police, please try and spot these before responding with all holier than thou guns blazing. Or just ignore them.
  • Chippycafc
    Chippycafc Posts: 14,142
    Stu_of_Kunming said:

    Chippycafc said:

    My Mrs has just told me that when she was in jersey the other week, one of the workers she was training came on to her on a night out. She told him do that again and you will have a size 6 stiletto in your lunchbox. Obviously he heeded her warning. Nothing else was said.

    What's the relevance? It seems your wife was lucky, the bloke accepted her rejection and backed off, plenty don't.
    The relevance is obvious.... She could have quite easily reported the incident to their bosses and caused grief like many others do. Perhaps she could wait 15 years.
  • IT_Andy
    IT_Andy Posts: 477
    Things have obviously changed for the better so it should make it easier for sexual harrassment to be reported.

    Perhaps Paul Gascoinge can sue Vinny Jones for sexual assult in 1998.
  • cabbles
    cabbles Posts: 15,255
    I think the way the media sensationalise all this doesn't help. It's the same with everything. If Eurostar have to close over xmas because of bad weather, reporters on TV are falling over themselves to sound the most disgusted. I'm not saying the two are comparable, it's just the nature of the language and how the media start to rile this up is pathetic
  • SantaClaus
    SantaClaus Posts: 7,651
    cabbles said:

    I think the way the media sensationalise all this doesn't help. It's the same with everything. If Eurostar have to close over xmas because of bad weather, reporters on TV are falling over themselves to sound the most disgusted. I'm not saying the two are comparable, it's just the nature of the language and how the media start to rile this up is pathetic

    Freud would have loved you Cabbles.
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,314
    edited November 2017
    Riviera said:

    Leuth said:

    LargeAddick said:

    Riviera said:

    SDAddick said:

    It is not that f***ing hard to not touch people without their consent and to take "no" as a definitive answer.

    You don't travel on South Eastern then?
    technically then I must be assaulted practically every day on the tube. It's got ridiculous when a brush on the knee is considered an assault or inappropriate. In my opinion it's trivialising actual assaults.

    Accidental brushes are NEVER characterised as assault. This is a ridiculous strawman
    Never?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/06/british-tourist-faces-jail-in-dubai-after-brushing-against-man-in-bar
    Not here at any rate. Or at least, there are vanishingly few examples of an accidental brush leading to a case
  • cabbles
    cabbles Posts: 15,255
    SantaClaus said:

    cabbles said:

    I think the way the media sensationalise all this doesn't help. It's the same with everything. If Eurostar have to close over xmas because of bad weather, reporters on TV are falling over themselves to sound the most disgusted. I'm not saying the two are comparable, it's just the nature of the language and how the media start to rile this up is pathetic

    Freud would have loved you Cabbles.
    I wish I knew enough about Freud to understand that :smiley:
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  • SDAddick
    SDAddick Posts: 14,467
    edited November 2017
    Riviera said:

    Every now and then on threads like this somebody lightens the mood with a bit of harmless levity. Could everybody, especially our self appointed moral police, please try and spot these before responding with all holier than thou guns blazing. Or just ignore them.

    Yes, sorry we don't find attempts to deflect away from or brush off sexual assault funny. How strange and moral of us.
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    I posted this on another thread relating to the same subject -
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    What constitutes a grope?

    I only ask because my Mrs had the Come Dance spin off show on the other night and on it was that new judge. During her interview she got up and danced with a bloke and at the end grabbed (gropped) his arse, in full view of the studio audience and the people at home. She then sat back down and had a bit of a jokey exchange with Zoe Ball about how lucky she was and Ball agreed (cant remember exact words, but was something like "cor yeah, hes a bit of alright").

    Now, the above doesnt particularly bother me, but you do ask what would've happened if it was Len Goodman and a female dancer, because that would've bothered me.

    Strange eh



    This weren't a part of the dance, it was after they'd finished.

    I also remember on the One Show a while back when Max Whitlock was on, revealing the new GB gymnastics kit (I think), and a similar convo starting between a female presenter and female guest. I also don't think this bothered me, but it obviously stands out as I do remember it. Speaking personally, both examples woulda rang alarm bells if genders were reversed...

    Both genuine questions as I think we need clarity and consistency on this
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    cabbles said:

    SantaClaus said:

    cabbles said:

    I think the way the media sensationalise all this doesn't help. It's the same with everything. If Eurostar have to close over xmas because of bad weather, reporters on TV are falling over themselves to sound the most disgusted. I'm not saying the two are comparable, it's just the nature of the language and how the media start to rile this up is pathetic

    Freud would have loved you Cabbles.
    I wish I knew enough about Freud to understand that :smiley:
    Ex Spurs manager
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    edited November 2017
    Agree it is strange entirely @i_b_b_o_r_g if the roles were reversed we're almost programmed to get pissed off.

    It's strange because it seems female society is happy to treat men as meat, but it doesn't work in reverse despite many women demanding to be treated as equals.
  • clb74
    clb74 Posts: 10,824
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    I posted this on another thread relating to the same subject -

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    What constitutes a grope?

    I only ask because my Mrs had the Come Dance spin off show on the other night and on it was that new judge. During her interview she got up and danced with a bloke and at the end grabbed (gropped) his arse, in full view of the studio audience and the people at home. She then sat back down and had a bit of a jokey exchange with Zoe Ball about how lucky she was and Ball agreed (cant remember exact words, but was something like "cor yeah, hes a bit of alright").

    Now, the above doesnt particularly bother me, but you do ask what would've happened if it was Len Goodman and a female dancer, because that would've bothered me.

    Strange eh



    This weren't a part of the dance, it was after they'd finished.

    I also remember on the One Show a while back when Max Whitlock was on, revealing the new GB gymnastics kit (I think), and a similar convo starting between a female presenter and female guest. I also don't think this bothered me, but it obviously stands out as I do remember it. Speaking personally, both examples woulda rang alarm bells if genders were reversed...

    Both genuine questions as I think we need clarity and consistency on this
    I think you posted this nearly a week ago and about two people have replied.
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    Dazzler21 said:

    Agree it is strange entirely @i_b_b_o_r_g if the roles were reversed we're almost programmed to get pissed off.

    It's strange because it seems female society is happy to treat men as meat, but it doesn't work in reverse despite many women demanding to be treated as equals.

    I don't know, but if we're talking about a complete blanket ban on sexual innuendo across society, regardless if anything i.e. gender or sexuality, we're in for an intetesting time and the legal profession will be laughing even more than they do now in this litigious age we're in...
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    clb74 said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    I posted this on another thread relating to the same subject -

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    What constitutes a grope?

    I only ask because my Mrs had the Come Dance spin off show on the other night and on it was that new judge. During her interview she got up and danced with a bloke and at the end grabbed (gropped) his arse, in full view of the studio audience and the people at home. She then sat back down and had a bit of a jokey exchange with Zoe Ball about how lucky she was and Ball agreed (cant remember exact words, but was something like "cor yeah, hes a bit of alright").

    Now, the above doesnt particularly bother me, but you do ask what would've happened if it was Len Goodman and a female dancer, because that would've bothered me.

    Strange eh



    This weren't a part of the dance, it was after they'd finished.

    I also remember on the One Show a while back when Max Whitlock was on, revealing the new GB gymnastics kit (I think), and a similar convo starting between a female presenter and female guest. I also don't think this bothered me, but it obviously stands out as I do remember it. Speaking personally, both examples woulda rang alarm bells if genders were reversed...

    Both genuine questions as I think we need clarity and consistency on this
    I think you posted this nearly a week ago and about two people have replied.
    I missed both of em
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    edited November 2017
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Dazzler21 said:

    Agree it is strange entirely @i_b_b_o_r_g if the roles were reversed we're almost programmed to get pissed off.

    It's strange because it seems female society is happy to treat men as meat, but it doesn't work in reverse despite many women demanding to be treated as equals.

    I don't know, but if we're talking about a complete blanket ban on sexual innuendo across society, regardless if anything i.e. gender or sexuality, we're in for an intetesting time and the legal profession will be laughing even more than they do now in this litigious age we're in...
    I certainly wouldn't want that. A bit of complimenting or flirting etc can help get clients to open up during pain point analysis or requirements gathering. I'd almost be out of work :lol:
  • Riviera
    Riviera Posts: 8,167
    The SCD incident would only be an issue if the fella had screamed or reacted angrily surely? Unless he says something then there is no story.
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    Riviera said:

    The SCD incident would only be an issue if the fella had screamed or reacted angrily surely? Unless he says something then there is no story.

    Would you say that if the roles were reversed or would you say it is completely inappropriate?
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  • PaddyP17
    PaddyP17 Posts: 13,035
    ricky_otto said:

    ElfsborgAddick said:

    ricky_otto said:

    I seem to recall a former Manager of mine tapped me on the knee about 10 years ago. Think I might seek legal advice this morning.

    You probably enjoyed it.
    It’s left me scarred for life. I can’t undersand why I’ve not felt the need to report it before....
    Your implied point here about "not feeling the need to report it" is a very dangerous way to view historical sexual abuse allegations.

    There are myriad reasons why people wouldn't report something, and I take these from my own experiences and my friends' experiences:

    - Feelings of shame/guilt
    - The social stigma (if you're a man, in particular) of admitting you'd been assaulted/abused
    - Repression of the memory/ denial
    - Not wanting to be the first/put your head above the parapet
    - Being threatened with violence/further assault if you do report it
    - Not wanting to be victim-blamed: "you was asking for it" etc

    Sexual assault and harassment can fuck you up. Blaming victims and shifting responsibility onto them is unhelpful in the extreme.

    ------------------------------------

    As for the OP - I wholeheartedly disagree, obviously. It's not always easy to "just move on". And something happening in the past does not make it any less serious. "Yeah, Jimmy Saville fucked dead corpses and led a massive paedophile ring, but he's dead now so that's alright." Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

    ------------------------------------

    As for those saying "well back in my day xyz happened and that was fine, people these days are too easily offended" and whatnot:

    Yeahhhhhh no. Welcome to a world with more equality. Women are speaking up because they have every right to, because the world is shifting away from its current patriarchal, man-favouring model.
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    Riviera said:

    The SCD incident would only be an issue if the fella had screamed or reacted angrily surely? Unless he says something then there is no story.

    In that instance, yeah possibly, but then does it show the female perpetrators to be "stuck in the dark ages"? And would it be advisable for them not to do it again?
  • clb74
    clb74 Posts: 10,824
    Riviera said:

    The SCD incident would only be an issue if the fella had screamed or reacted angrily surely? Unless he says something then there is no story.

    He might be too embarrassed about the incident.
  • SDAddick
    SDAddick Posts: 14,467
    edited November 2017
    PaddyP17 said:

    ricky_otto said:

    ElfsborgAddick said:

    ricky_otto said:

    I seem to recall a former Manager of mine tapped me on the knee about 10 years ago. Think I might seek legal advice this morning.

    You probably enjoyed it.
    It’s left me scarred for life. I can’t undersand why I’ve not felt the need to report it before....
    Your implied point here about "not feeling the need to report it" is a very dangerous way to view historical sexual abuse allegations.

    There are myriad reasons why people wouldn't report something, and I take these from my own experiences and my friends' experiences:

    - Feelings of shame/guilt
    - The social stigma (if you're a man, in particular) of admitting you'd been assaulted/abused
    - Repression of the memory/ denial
    - Not wanting to be the first/put your head above the parapet
    - Being threatened with violence/further assault if you do report it
    - Not wanting to be victim-blamed: "you was asking for it" etc

    Sexual assault and harassment can fuck you up. Blaming victims and shifting responsibility onto them is unhelpful in the extreme.

    ------------------------------------

    As for the OP - I wholeheartedly disagree, obviously. It's not always easy to "just move on". And something happening in the past does not make it any less serious. "Yeah, Jimmy Saville fucked dead corpses and led a massive paedophile ring, but he's dead now so that's alright." Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

    ------------------------------------

    As for those saying "well back in my day xyz happened and that was fine, people these days are too easily offended" and whatnot:

    Yeahhhhhh no. Welcome to a world with more equality. Women are speaking up because they have every right to, because the world is shifting away from its current patriarchal, man-favouring model.
    If I could "Promote" this I would. Brilliantly put.
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,616
    Dazzler21 said:

    Agree it is strange entirely @i_b_b_o_r_g if the roles were reversed we're almost programmed to get pissed off.

    It's strange because it seems female society is happy to treat men as meat, but it doesn't work in reverse despite many women demanding to be treated as equals.

    Diet Coke break.
  • Riviera
    Riviera Posts: 8,167
    Dazzler21 said:

    Riviera said:

    The SCD incident would only be an issue if the fella had screamed or reacted angrily surely? Unless he says something then there is no story.

    Would you say that if the roles were reversed or would you say it is completely inappropriate?
    I give up!
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    SDAddick said:

    PaddyP17 said:

    ricky_otto said:

    ElfsborgAddick said:

    ricky_otto said:

    I seem to recall a former Manager of mine tapped me on the knee about 10 years ago. Think I might seek legal advice this morning.

    You probably enjoyed it.
    It’s left me scarred for life. I can’t undersand why I’ve not felt the need to report it before....
    Your implied point here about "not feeling the need to report it" is a very dangerous way to view historical sexual abuse allegations.

    There are myriad reasons why people wouldn't report something, and I take these from my own experiences and my friends' experiences:

    - Feelings of shame/guilt
    - The social stigma (if you're a man, in particular) of admitting you'd been assaulted/abused
    - Repression of the memory/ denial
    - Not wanting to be the first/put your head above the parapet
    - Being threatened with violence/further assault if you do report it
    - Not wanting to be victim-blamed: "you was asking for it" etc

    Sexual assault and harassment can fuck you up. Blaming victims and shifting responsibility onto them is unhelpful in the extreme.

    ------------------------------------

    As for the OP - I wholeheartedly disagree, obviously. It's not always easy to "just move on". And something happening in the past does not make it any less serious. "Yeah, Jimmy Saville fucked dead corpses and led a massive paedophile ring, but he's dead now so that's alright." Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

    ------------------------------------

    As for those saying "well back in my day xyz happened and that was fine, people these days are too easily offended" and whatnot:

    Yeahhhhhh no. Welcome to a world with more equality. Women are speaking up because they have every right to, because the world is shifting away from its current patriarchal, man-favouring model.
    If I could "Promote" this I would. Brilliantly put.
    I'll look into it
  • aliwibble
    aliwibble Posts: 26,277
    Super_Eddie_Youds said:

    cafcfan said:

    Working environments everywhere were very different many years ago. Touching, fondling and much more were everyday events. Here's a few examples: blokes in a hot environment wearing nothing more than their overalls lying under printing machines while maintaining them and having their bollocks squeezed by the women workers. (Apparently they thought it funny when the engineer, in shock banged his head on a lump of metal); a secretary stuffing her hand down my trouser pocket to fondle my cock; another who lifted her top up and asked if I liked her bra and to guess her cup size (I got it right BTW); a female member of staff in a very short skirt, sent home for not wearing knickers; an infamous gang-bang at the company Sports Club. (When the story got back to the woman's boss he asked her if she wanted to make a complaint. She told him to mind his own fucking business: she'd instigated it); a girl that didn't get a bonus and shouted across the office at her boss "so the blow job wasn't any good then?"

    Sure I have been deliberately one-sided here but you'll notice a theme. None of these instances involved men using their position/power to abuse young girls. This is not a one-way street.

    Your examples aren't of women abusing their power or status either.
    But some of them are still examples of sexual assault.
  • Super_Eddie_Youds
    Super_Eddie_Youds Posts: 1,977
    aliwibble said:

    Super_Eddie_Youds said:

    cafcfan said:

    Working environments everywhere were very different many years ago. Touching, fondling and much more were everyday events. Here's a few examples: blokes in a hot environment wearing nothing more than their overalls lying under printing machines while maintaining them and having their bollocks squeezed by the women workers. (Apparently they thought it funny when the engineer, in shock banged his head on a lump of metal); a secretary stuffing her hand down my trouser pocket to fondle my cock; another who lifted her top up and asked if I liked her bra and to guess her cup size (I got it right BTW); a female member of staff in a very short skirt, sent home for not wearing knickers; an infamous gang-bang at the company Sports Club. (When the story got back to the woman's boss he asked her if she wanted to make a complaint. She told him to mind his own fucking business: she'd instigated it); a girl that didn't get a bonus and shouted across the office at her boss "so the blow job wasn't any good then?"

    Sure I have been deliberately one-sided here but you'll notice a theme. None of these instances involved men using their position/power to abuse young girls. This is not a one-way street.

    Your examples aren't of women abusing their power or status either.
    But some of them are still examples of sexual assault.
    Clearly
  • harveys_gardener
    harveys_gardener Posts: 7,038
    On This Week Edwina Currie tries to blame Labour for Fallon groping the journalist because they were in power at the time. Priceless!!!

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