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New Article: Trying to square up the Circle of Discontent

I was 180 posts behind with the 'banging on about Kermorgant' thead but having caught up, it feels like i'm in some form of Trueman Show where the same people are saying the same thing as they have said on a thousand other threads. Since the arrival of Duchatelet, and the key decisions made since that point, a devisive wedge has been driven through our support base. The reality is we shouldn't all be Sharks or Jets, and we really need to find a way to move past this.

Personally, I think where it comes to 'trust / support' for RD and all the network-related stuff, we need to supress whatever strong feelings there are on either side of the fence that the main vocal protagonists sit on. The fact there are so many repeated debates on the same points should tell you that there is no clear consensus for the more quieter majority to throw their weight behind at this point in time.

Both arguments can be made to look correct / false, and all that is happening now is the same people are seeing it through by digging their heels in, and inadvertedly causing an unecessary rift. The picture can change from one result to the next, and an unhealthy tug of war seems to be in play

It may sound like fence sitting, but I really do feel we should all be in 'wait and see' mode at this point in time.

Having been in a period of waiting for a takeover for a long time, expectations were high that the change would lead to a clear, notable move forward by the club. That hasn't occurred, but are we being completely fair to make strong judgements on just three months business? Will those things that clearly haven't gone well be quickly learned from, or will we see a pattern of repeated mistakes?

As an example of the mixed picture; The initial transfer approach and dealings have been disappointing. The ST process reeked inexperience and could have been dealt with a hell of a lot better. Yet, the academy plans are encouraging. The chances of Championship survival looks improved. Either side of the coin can be shined brighter and spun depending on whether a win or a defeat has occurred.

At the moment: we need to see three things pan out before we can start making more stronger weighted calls on whether we should be fully behind, or actively questioning RD and the whole network shamoodle.

1. What division will we be in next season?
2. Will it be Riga, or someone else who is our manager? If someone else, what credentials, why them?
3. What squad rebuilding occurs over the summer? What type of players are being acquired? What synergy does there appear to be with his other school of clubs etc? Does it look like an 'attempt at progress' approach etc?

I'm sure there are dozens of other sub-set questions that it would be interesting to know the answers to from an understanding basis, but everything in the short-term gets gazumped by those three above. And until we know more on those three, both the red corner and the blue other red corner should be touching gloves in the middle.

It is perfectly right to question people's approach or motives, particularly when it is something you are passionate about, have devoted a lifetime of emotional involvement to, and particularly when when the approach or motive is not clear, or a leap into the unknown.

But lets all wait and see where we are at a little further down the line before we start forming either protective barriers or attacking positons, eh ?
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Comments

  • For me, No. 3 is overwhelmingly the most important question to answer.

    Although we are making good progress towards staying up, there could yet be twists and turns that relegate us, and would be attributable to misfortune rather than incompetence (e.g. poor refereeing decisions, calamitous injuries to key players etc). It would be tough to blame RD for rank bad luck. I really hope JR stays in his role next season, but for all we know he may not want to and it will be necessary to recruit a replacement.

    Which brings us right back to the key issue - recruitment and retention during the summer. That's the only thing RD has clear control over now and in my book, the only thing he can be judged on.

    In my opinion, for what it's worth, we have some exciting times ahead once this mare of a season is finally over.
  • Very valid questions AFKA, for the sake of unity and harmony I'm waiting till we're over the line and completely safe before I let rip with both barrels.
  • Absolutely agree and point three is going to be very telling.
  • I'm glad that "the middle ground" view has been aired. Much of the polarised view is based on fear of the unknown or coloured by the departure of Chris Powell. Those showing an element of appreciation for what RD might be trying to achieve are forming that view in hope that the club will progress and relief that administration now seems almost impossible.

    My humble opinion is that there is nothing to fear and there are already as many positives as negatives. We will all know a lot more at the start of next season. In the meantime we should just focus on the next three games.
  • I'm really nervous about the squad rebuilding this summer;.

    I think the one thing we as supporters have learned from the January window is not to get too excited about signings just because they sound a bit exotic.

    There was a lot of initial excitement to the signings of Reza, Nego, Peter Parsley etc because they were young and foreign.

    The 'great unknown' over-enthasised on the 'great' when it should have been on the 'unknown'.

    The truth we have learnt since, is that someone like a 35-yr old Carlos Edwards would have been more suited and effective to our needs.

    The 'great unknown' over-enthasised on the 'great' when it should have been on the 'unknown'. I think we will be a bit more cautious this summer.




  • edited April 2014

    I was 180 posts behind with the 'banging on about Kermorgant' thead but having caught up, it feels like i'm in some form of Trueman Show where the same people are saying the same thing as they have said on a thousand other threads. Since the arrival of Duchatelet, and the key decisions made since that point, a devisive wedge has been driven through our support base. The reality is we shouldn't all be Sharks or Jets, and we really need to find a way to move past this.

    Personally, I think where it comes to 'trust / support' for RD and all the network-related stuff, we need to supress whatever strong feelings there are on either side of the fence that the main vocal protagonists sit on. The fact there are so many repeated debates on the same points should tell you that there is no clear consensus for the more quieter majority to throw their weight behind at this point in time.

    Both arguments can be made to look correct / false, and all that is happening now is the same people are seeing it through by digging their heels in, and inadvertedly causing an unecessary rift. The picture can change from one result to the next, and an unhealthy tug of war seems to be in play

    It may sound like fence sitting, but I really do feel we should all be in 'wait and see' mode at this point in time.

    Having been in a period of waiting for a takeover for a long time, expectations were high that the change would lead to a clear, notable move forward by the club. That hasn't occurred, but are we being completely fair to make strong judgements on just three months business? Will those things that clearly haven't gone well be quickly learned from, or will we see a pattern of repeated mistakes?

    As an example of the mixed picture; The initial transfer approach and dealings have been disappointing. The ST process reeked inexperience and could have been dealt with a hell of a lot better. Yet, the academy plans are encouraging. The chances of Championship survival looks improved. Either side of the coin can be shined brighter and spun depending on whether a win or a defeat has occurred.

    At the moment: we need to see three things pan out before we can start making more stronger weighted calls on whether we should be fully behind, or actively questioning RD and the whole network shamoodle.

    1. What division will we be in next season?
    2. Will it be Riga, or someone else who is our manager? If someone else, what credentials, why them?
    3. What squad rebuilding occurs over the summer? What type of players are being acquired? What synergy does there appear to be with his other school of clubs etc? Does it look like an 'attempt at progress' approach etc?

    I'm sure there are dozens of other sub-set questions that it would be interesting to know the answers to from an understanding basis, but everything in the short-term gets gazumped by those three above. And until we know more on those three, both the red corner and the blue other red corner should be touching gloves in the middle.

    It is perfectly right to question people's approach or motives, particularly when it is something you are passionate about, have devoted a lifetime of emotional involvement to, and particularly when when the approach or motive is not clear, or a leap into the unknown.

    But lets all wait and see where we are at a little further down the line before we start forming either protective barriers or attacking positons, eh ?

    Completely agree with that - although the training ground plans/funding as presented have little to do with RD. I think we will know a lot more by the start of next season.
  • It's obvious to any sensible fan, that we should wait and see what happens over the close season.

    Having said that SL supporters still can't make their minds up.
  • I'm really nervous about the squad rebuilding this summer;.

    I think the one thing we as supporters have learned from the January window is not to get too excited about signings just because they sound a bit exotic.

    There was a lot of initial excitement to the signings of Reza, Nego, Peter Parsley etc because they were young and foreign.

    The 'great unknown' over-enthasised on the 'great' when it should have been on the 'unknown'.

    The truth we have learnt since, is that someone like a 35-yr old Carlos Edwards would have been more suited and effective to our needs.

    The 'great unknown' over-enthasised on the 'great' when it should have been on the 'unknown'. I think we will be a bit more cautious this summer.




    Couldn't agree more. I don't care where a player's from, it's the attributes they bring and the experience they have. When you're looking at relegation you need to bring in proven personnel in that division, even if it's in the short-term. Need goals? Sign a proven Championship striker i.e. Luciano Becchio or Patrick Bamford. Need a manager to keep you up? Get in Tony Pulis or Mick McCarthy, not Pepe Mel. We replaced our human wrecking ball of a centre forward with a waifish striker who plays best when running onto through balls and avoiding physical contact, and some kind of Polish child. It was a very Football Manager approach. Styles and experience weren't taken into account, just position and a general idea of whether or not they're 'good'.

    You can bring in players who haven't been in the league before, of course, but they need to be allied with experience. Sunderland learned this to their detriment this season and it will probably cost them their Premiership status. If Roland wants to bring in a talented Belgian centre forward next season then great, but let's make sure we pair him up with a player who knows what it takes to get a result in this league.
  • Spot on AFKA. At this stage most views are based on very little actual evidence, but a hell of a lot of (understandable) hopes and fears. Bottom line is, RD was the only game in town ready to put his hand in his pocket so we really have to sit tight and see what he brings us. Despite the obvious and well-aired early problems, overall I think the new regime have done enough to justify a degree of trust.
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  • tend to agree with you AFKA but since the departure of CP it just doesn't seem like "my charlton" anymore, although I would find it difficult to describe what that was. I shall continue my level of support for the rest of the season and be at Blackpool. As for the future I'll wait and see, but it won't be the same. To me it seems that the basic dna if what is charlton has changed and that makes me sad.
  • Exactly smudge calm needed to enjoy what is left of a shite season

    A season where we have gone from the verge of -10 to being financially stable

    Losing a mgr that I would say was by far the most popular amongst a huge percentage of our fan base

    To getting an unknown man in who has just slipped seamlessly into the ethos of the club and one that nearly every fan has recognised as knowing what he is doing instantly

    Losing a real fans fav in yann and not replacing adequately

    To even having an fa cup run that resulted in disappointment but the qtr finals again


    Now is the time to allow the people who have committed financially to do their thing and judge based on the exact things you said


    There is no need for such evident distrust after the last decade this club has faced under being run the traditional football way by so called traditional style British owners
  • AFKA, couldn't agree more.

    Owners change, managers come and go, players are here for a season or the duration and stuff just happens.
    Times change, people move on, some people are nasty and selfish and have ulterior motives, some people sacrifice themselves for the greater good..... and any combination of those too.

    That's what it is to be a football supporter. I doubt you'll find it different for any other club underneath it all - it's just the individual circumstances that are different.

    Admittedly, the future is uncertain, and I think what is driving most people's discomfort is that it is far less certain as to how things will be in the future than in previous years.

    Here's another point of view we all might want to consider. The world of football seems to have changed a lot with the Premier League becoming all-mighty and the funding gap between them and every other league wider and wider. What further effect is that going to have on every single Championship and League 1/2 club? How many clubs are heading for administration or financial meltdown (QPR will be royally stuffed if they don't get back into the Premiership to name just one club). Are we better off with a securely funded owner who wants to try and run the club as a properly going concern, even if the network idea is untested and plain scary, or would we rather have some Sheik with a bottomless pit of a wallet or another Abramovich wannabe? How much debt have the Glazers picked up from Man Utd?

    Perhaps we should take a deep breath and stay loyal to our club but console ourselves with the following:

    We know that:
    RD is going to deal with the pitch problem in the close season
    RD already has ambitious plans for our academy. Once approved by the Mayor, built and up and running, then I think we have an enormous asset. Watch this space.

    The rest is speculative, but I think RD deserves at least a chance. OK there are many folk who feel the DNA has changed - but so has everything else in the football world.

    I'm not giving up on CAFC, but RD hasn't had a chance to bring about proper changes, and I don't think he could be worse for us than the previous owners were. Lets see what the next season brings and reserve judgement until there is something to actually have a full opinion on.

    #COYA

  • In the Greenwich Times 22/4/14 there is an application to the council by CAFC for removal of existing playing surface and

    reconstruct a new pitch, including drainage and under soil pipe works .

    Good to see somethings on the move.
  • Quite agree AKFA, it is just wait and see. RD is making all the right noises, Academy, pitch etc. If I am not careful, once we have secured safety from relegation, I could become quite excited about the prospects of future success. I do not think I have ever known so many academy players come into the first team and do well before, and I have been watching for over 60 years. If we can get Poyet, Fox, Gomez and a few other signed up, this should excite all supporters. On another item re: the pitch is under soil pipe works drainage or undersoil heating? I can guess the answer, but just like it confirmed.
  • The application makes no reference to under soil heating.
  • The application makes no reference to under soil heating.

    Thanks, was what I thought, unfortunately
  • Good post AFKA lets hope it stops some of the petty bickering that happens on here.
  • Conjecture, rumour, gossip, attention-seeking and third-hand information from sources close to the club who - predictably -were cloaked in anonymity.

    No-one knows anything.

    Plus ça change...
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  • I know many that feel exactly the same as you LL and 3B, you are by no means alone in that stance, though it's probably a debate for another day in a separate thread.
  • I agree that final table (or hopefully the one on Tuesday night?) confirming our Championship status is needed to even begin to look at the future.
    And I think you could safely add player retention to that list.
    Let's hope that the club give some clear communication on the future. It can only help fans like @Cardinal Sin‌ make up their minds.
  • edited April 2014
    Rothko said:
    Great link. Document was unavailable when I clicked, but a search showed

    CHARLTON ATHLETIC FOOTBALL CO, THE VALLEY, FLOYD ROAD, CHARLTON SE7ProposalRemoval of existing playing surface and reconstruct a new pitch, including drainage and under soil pipe works


    If you click through the documents there is a spec proposl from pitch masters TGMS consultants. It looks the absolute nuts.

    Fibre Sand 3g though.

    Plastic hoofball dodgy bounce on the way ;) Still better than not being able to get our games on. I will miss grass pitch immensely. Big games of pro ballers should be on bowling ball turf.

    EDIT after reading the proposal it appears the top layer will be turf so will wait to see it for real before being so rashly Luddite. ;)

    My overall impression of the application is first rate. TGMS seem to have done mainly county cricket grounds so far in their completed projects list but that is no bad thing in terms of fitness for the job in hand.

    It would be interesting to hear the views of @NWCorner‌ on the plans
  • Does this sound like a hybrid pitch, like at Watford (am I right?) or 100% artificial?
  • Look at the doc mate its very informative. Im no turf man so id have to read it carefully before guessing on that one ;)

  • I would guess that while very few supporters feel outright alienation the many twists and turns of the season have been extremely unsettling, not least because the two previous seasons showed significant and consistent progress for the first time since 2005.

    The paralysis caused by the protracted take-over reached a critical stage, and left the club crippled.

    The only suitor who actually went the distance, RD has made a substantial investment, is funding losses and must cope with unexpected financial sink-holes like the pitch. I don't suppose he has re-jigged his normal routine around the Eurostar timetable, but he has been active, visible and decisive - amongst many initial fears was that for a guy with far more pies than fingers he would give us precious little attention. Unquestionably he has earned the benefit of the doubt.

    If there is only one positive thing to come out of SCP's departure, then it is that he was spared further punishment. He will bounce back, for sure. Meanwhile, his two lieutenants continue to serve alongside the two new blokes pitchside - is that not highly unusual - and commendable - for any number of reasons ?

    The season's end in 10 days, whatever the outcome, will duly bring clarity, focus, re-organisation and optimism. Stumbling through a wholly unforeseen collapse in what was once a remarkably well-run club has been a numbing and shameful experience - the warning sign of the Doncaster match and the descent to the utter shambles of the Barnsley game has understandably punctured our pride in this wonderful club, and the process has been very painful and disconcerting. No wonder there is widespread unease, but soon enough things will change and there will be gale-force sighs of relief - clearer, brighter, happier days are just around the corner, I'm absolutely certain of that.

    UTA !!

  • The 3G is for the pitch surrounds, so like a lot of Premier League, the linesmen will run on the 3G and it'll stand up better to the use
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