Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
England Cricket 2025
Comments
-
I would agree more that we should revert to the old way if I hadn’t also watched our last three tours to Australia end 5-0, 4-0 and 4-0.carly burn said:Listened to a pretty extraordinary interview with Bethel on BT at the end there.
Pretty much admitted he was showing nowhere near the form to get picked for an ashes series but is enjoying Austrailia all the same ( getting pi55ed!)
Even the BT commentary team were all smiles at the end because they are all off for a surfing session later today
Not Bethells fault obviously but just goes to show what a shambles this whole debacle has been. One big f******g jolly.
I've listened to various podcasts over the past few weeks. The likes of Broad and Buttler think McCullum should stay regardless because he's given us so much enjoyment? Tuffnell also in that camp ,but I think that's more because he's best mates with him!
Agnew is very much the opposite and although has actually said it, you can tell he's pretty disgusted by the whole thing.
There so much wrong with the whole thing he has to go imo.
I think a good floor wiping in this test, which now looks likely could be enough for the Bazball era to pass.
At the moment neither approach seems to be the answer. I give them a small amount of credit for having the balls to try something a bit different.
But the harsh reality is that Australia are producing better cricketers than England.With bat they attack and defend better, with ball they have more control over their line and length without sacrificing pace and in the field they are more lively and don’t drop catches (that last one could probably be remedied with a fielding coach…).1 -
Callumcafc said:“Anderson (24 in 10/11) is the only England bowler to take more wickets than Carse's 22 in an away Ashes series since 1980.”
Incredible given how ordinary the bloke has bowled the majority of the time.
Carse is a wicket taking bowler as evidenced by those 22 wickets at 27.00 and a strike rate of just 34.54. Boland has bowled superbly in this series but, in reality, it is only his economy rate that is the material difference (3.35 v 4.68) given Boland has 18 wickets at 25.16 and a strike rate of 44.94.
Carse is not an opening bowler because he lacks control (he doesn't even open the bowling for Durham) but stick him in as the third seamer behind Anderson and Broad and the fact he goes for so many would almost become irrelevant. Those two would build the pressure but Carse would probably be the beneficiary of that.
The question is why Carse can't put the ball on the spot. Probably because he doesn't bowl enough. We are constantly being told that the standard isn't good enough in the CC but the guy bowled 32 overs last season in the competition. And yet we expect him to rock up and put the ball on the spot at the highest level. Boland and Neser, for example, have already bowled 90 overs and 115 overs respectably in the Sheffield Shield to date.5 -
arny23394 said:Potts is crap
He looks so poor in this match but he is decent normally.
I honestly thought he would be right on the money after waiting until the last test but he has struggled from his first over and he looks totally shell shocked on this good batting wicket. 25 overs, 0-141 is a nightmare and he must be gutted that he didn't get a call up for the 4th test on a bowler friendly strip.
3 -
I don't think it's as simple as that though. Yes Carse has bowled the most but, if we were to compare him to Atkinson, for example, then, bar the respective economy rate, Carse has done a lot better - he might have been more expensive but his strike rate out weighs that to a degree. In fact, it is only that economy rate that differentiates him from Archer:cantersaddick said:
Someone's gotta take them. He's played every game and bowled lots of overs. Aussies haven't been that good so he's bound to get some.Callumcafc said:“Anderson (24 in 10/11) is the only England bowler to take more wickets than Carse's 22 in an away Ashes series since 1980.”
Incredible given how ordinary the bloke has bowled the majority of the time.
Reminds me of one of England's failed world Cups in the 2010s when Ian Bell kept banging on after the series about how he had the highest average and therefore he want the problem and it was everyone else. He completely ignored that his strike rate of barely 60 meant he was putting all the pressure on the other batsman while he ate up balls. In a side that also had at least one of Cook and Trott it was unforgivable.
Carse: 22 wickets @ 27.00, strike rate of 34.54, economy rate of 4.68
Archer: 9 wickets @ 27.11, strike rate of 53.33, economy rate of 3.05
Atkinson: 6 wickets @ 47.33, strike rate of 73.00, economy rate of 3.89
In fact, if one is to accept that the England batting line up has been more brittle and less dominant than that of Australia (Head, for a start, has 600 runs at 5.26 an over) then Carse with a better strike rate and number of wickets taken, has performed relatively better than Boland. Both have bowled exactly the same number of balls (809):
Boland: 18 wickets @ 25.16, strike rate of 44.94, economy rate of 3.35
0 -
I get your point AA but it isn't borne out by watching it, particularly these last two tests. So many of his wickets have been down to poor shots rather than anything else. Part of that is that he's being attacked because he's so erratic there are balls to be hit. Watch the highlights and he will probably look dangerous, watch every ball and he just looks not up to it. Some of that is how good the Aussie batters are but the fact he's opening the bowling is wild0
-
I'm definitely feeling punch drunk after another all night session but just like Archer I can nod off during the tests and wake up at vital moments !
This was like the movie when you know what's going to happen but you watch again in case it's been edited !
The Aussies are winners and go for the jugular when they spot a weakness and boy was there plenty on this good batting pitch by the away side where Head has become a nemesis to England since his serendipitous arrival as an opener after Khawaja's back injury in the 1st test in Perth.
600 runs at 66.66 and Travis Head is a devil to get out !
Also you can get pissed if you win like Head did after the 3rd test that wrapped up the Ashes but Duckett who has had a poor tour with bat and in the field gets lambasted as critics don't like you being seen to over imbibe when losing; these are the unwritten rules of professional cricket.
I thought 3-2 to Australia with England winning the 1st and last test before the first ball was bowled in Perth but I like many underestimated the consistent Boland and Carey having an excellent time with bat and gloves.
Starc has been world class even without Cummings and Head and the skittish batsman Steve Smith punished us poms yet again with his 13th Ashes century; Smith only has 'The Donald' on 19 centuries in front of him now.
Bradman not Trump !
Maybe Just one more night shift to go ?1 -
But that is his strength - his bowling lacks consistently but he takes wickets because the Aussies want to take him on and sometimes they take on the wrong ball simply because he doesn't consistently bowl line and length. Carse has dismissed their two best batters, Head and Smith, 6/12 times they've been outfenaddick said:I get your point AA but it isn't borne out by watching it, particularly these last two tests. So many of his wickets have been down to poor shots rather than anything else. Part of that is that he's being attacked because he's so erratic there are balls to be hit. Watch the highlights and he will probably look dangerous, watch every ball and he just looks not up to it. Some of that is how good the Aussie batters are but the fact he's opening the bowling is wild
Carse has come back test after test. He's a work horse and there is a place in the side for him but he has to go back to county cricket and find that consistency of line and length and not be opening the bowling. Our focus on him is for all those poor deliveries but he he isn't the reason that we have lost this series. I would give him a 7/10 and apart from Root (probably an 8.50) I'm struggling to find anyone that has performed better than that over the course of the whole series for us. Certainly none of the other batters have and although Archer and Tongue have performed with credit, they both only had to do it for three of the Tests.
0 -
£300 coming my way. 4-1 defeat.0
-
Which is a similar argument many have used about Bashir when he was getting wickets with boundary catches, it's flimsy.Addick Addict said:
But that is his strength - his bowling lacks consistently but he takes wickets because the Aussies want to take him on and sometimes they take on the wrong ball simply because he doesn't consistently bowl line and length. Carse has dismissed their two best batters, Head and Smith, 6/12 times they've been outfenaddick said:I get your point AA but it isn't borne out by watching it, particularly these last two tests. So many of his wickets have been down to poor shots rather than anything else. Part of that is that he's being attacked because he's so erratic there are balls to be hit. Watch the highlights and he will probably look dangerous, watch every ball and he just looks not up to it. Some of that is how good the Aussie batters are but the fact he's opening the bowling is wild
Carse has come back test after test. He's a work horse and there is a place in the side for him but he has to go back to county cricket and find that consistency of line and length and not be opening the bowling. Our focus on him is for all those poor deliveries but he he isn't the reason that we have lost this series. I would give him a 7/10 and apart from Root (probably an 8.50) I'm struggling to find anyone that has performed better than that over the course of the whole series for us. Certainly none of the other batters have and although Archer and Tongue have performed with credit, they both only had to do it for three of the Tests.
No questioning his attitude or work rate on the field but his bowling hasn't been up to scratch. A lot of that is systemic and down to a lack of consisten bowling coaches but he is also a seasoned pro who should be able to hold a consistent line and length by now0 -
I'm still hopeful my 3-1 is in play. The wicket hasn't materially changed and if we can bat for four sessions then it will be a draw. That is a very big "if" admittedly.raytreacy said:£300 coming my way. 4-1 defeat.
I'm more concerned that my son's recommendation of 12/1 on Starc being Player of the Series (I'm also on at 2/1 on him being top Aussie wicket taker which is a certainty) is going to be usurped by Head. There again, should Starc get a hatful in our second innings then, although he might seal the deal in doing so, I'll lose on the 3-1.0 -
Sponsored links:
-
A "seasoned pro" who bowls 32 overs a season outside Test duties. He's never going to become a consistent line and length bowler doing that and certainly not an opening bowler without doing so. He wouldn't get in front of Anderson, Broad and Woakes at their peak at home but they have all retired and we aren't in England either.fenaddick said:
Which is a similar argument many have used about Bashir when he was getting wickets with boundary catches, it's flimsy.Addick Addict said:
But that is his strength - his bowling lacks consistently but he takes wickets because the Aussies want to take him on and sometimes they take on the wrong ball simply because he doesn't consistently bowl line and length. Carse has dismissed their two best batters, Head and Smith, 6/12 times they've been outfenaddick said:I get your point AA but it isn't borne out by watching it, particularly these last two tests. So many of his wickets have been down to poor shots rather than anything else. Part of that is that he's being attacked because he's so erratic there are balls to be hit. Watch the highlights and he will probably look dangerous, watch every ball and he just looks not up to it. Some of that is how good the Aussie batters are but the fact he's opening the bowling is wild
Carse has come back test after test. He's a work horse and there is a place in the side for him but he has to go back to county cricket and find that consistency of line and length and not be opening the bowling. Our focus on him is for all those poor deliveries but he he isn't the reason that we have lost this series. I would give him a 7/10 and apart from Root (probably an 8.50) I'm struggling to find anyone that has performed better than that over the course of the whole series for us. Certainly none of the other batters have and although Archer and Tongue have performed with credit, they both only had to do it for three of the Tests.
No questioning his attitude or work rate on the field but his bowling hasn't been up to scratch. A lot of that is systemic and down to a lack of consisten bowling coaches but he is also a seasoned pro who should be able to hold a consistent line and length by now
How many times has Bashir dismissed Head and Smith in this series? Those two, by definition in averaging 72.08 between them in the series, are more than capable of putting away bad balls. And yet Carse has dismissed them half a dozen times. They are too good not to learn from that. Why and how does that happen?
The fact that Bashir can't even get a game makes your argument even more "flimsy" than mine. If he were that good at bowling bad balls and getting wickets he would be playing. He's never even played against Australia and clearly cannot be trusted to do so.0 -
I always expected us to lose the Ashes, as in their home conditions, Australia are better than us. But the chasm in the results doesn't reflect the raw abilities of the teams.
With the batting, while the lack of proper match practice before the series didn't help, it's more a mental thing. The freedom of the Bazball era has produced a casualness and lack accountability in our batting, where when things are tough, instead of grinding it out, swishing a few shots before getting out is seen as fine, as you're taking the "positive option". Duckett, Brook and Smith are definitely guilty of this.
With the bowling, it's more down to the awful preparation, with so many bowlers undercooked before the series, the lack of a permanent bowling coach (Saker returning at the last minute), the lack of practice games in local conditions, the lack of mid series practice for players like Potts (a common issue with modern tours). And having too many Reece Burke type bowlers, who can't be relied on to play many games without getting injured again.
Plus England have misread the local conditions. Pundits like Vaughan who work out in Australia every year, have previously noted that the pitches now do a lot more than they used to, so that Broad/Anderson style metronomic fast medium bowlers have been very effective. Yes Starc has been magnificent, but Boland has 18 wickets at 25 and Neser 14 at 17.
As for the fielding, that's surely down to not enough preparation and practice, not helped by the lack of a fielding coach. All players will drop the occasional catch, but the more you practice, the fewer you drop.3 -
Carse has played 75 FC + Test matches plus countless white ball both internationally and domestically, since making his debut 9 years ago. That isn't someone learning their craft who should need to be taught how to bowl line and length. And if those aren't his strength he should say so and not take the new ball.Addick Addict said:
A "seasoned pro" who bowls 32 overs a season outside Test duties. He's never going to become a consistent line and length bowler doing that and certainly not an opening bowler without doing so. He wouldn't get in front of Anderson, Broad and Woakes at their peak at home but they have all retired and we aren't in England either.fenaddick said:
Which is a similar argument many have used about Bashir when he was getting wickets with boundary catches, it's flimsy.Addick Addict said:
But that is his strength - his bowling lacks consistently but he takes wickets because the Aussies want to take him on and sometimes they take on the wrong ball simply because he doesn't consistently bowl line and length. Carse has dismissed their two best batters, Head and Smith, 6/12 times they've been outfenaddick said:I get your point AA but it isn't borne out by watching it, particularly these last two tests. So many of his wickets have been down to poor shots rather than anything else. Part of that is that he's being attacked because he's so erratic there are balls to be hit. Watch the highlights and he will probably look dangerous, watch every ball and he just looks not up to it. Some of that is how good the Aussie batters are but the fact he's opening the bowling is wild
Carse has come back test after test. He's a work horse and there is a place in the side for him but he has to go back to county cricket and find that consistency of line and length and not be opening the bowling. Our focus on him is for all those poor deliveries but he he isn't the reason that we have lost this series. I would give him a 7/10 and apart from Root (probably an 8.50) I'm struggling to find anyone that has performed better than that over the course of the whole series for us. Certainly none of the other batters have and although Archer and Tongue have performed with credit, they both only had to do it for three of the Tests.
No questioning his attitude or work rate on the field but his bowling hasn't been up to scratch. A lot of that is systemic and down to a lack of consisten bowling coaches but he is also a seasoned pro who should be able to hold a consistent line and length by now
How many times has Bashir dismissed Head and Smith in this series? Those two, by definition in averaging 72.08 between them in the series, are more than capable of putting away bad balls. And yet Carse has dismissed them half a dozen times. They are too good not to learn from that. Why and how does that happen?
The fact that Bashir can't even get a game makes your argument even more "flimsy" than mine. If he were that good at bowling bad balls and getting wickets he would be playing. He's never even played against Australia and clearly cannot be trusted to do so.
My point about Bashir was the way he gets wickets is part of what is keeping him out of the side. It's also not like the Aussies are picking a front line spinner every match either. I don't think either Carse or Bashir are good enough so using the fact Bashir hasn't played isn't exactly the gotcha you think it is0 -
Feel very sorry for him..hasn't played a proper game of cricket on the whole tour and is expected to be on the money in a test match.soapboxsam said:arny23394 said:Potts is crap
He looks so poor in this match but he is decent normally.
I honestly thought he would be right on the money after waiting until the last test but he has struggled from his first over and he looks totally shell shocked on this good batting wicket. 25 overs, 0-141 is a nightmare and he must be gutted that he didn't get a call up for the 4th test on a bowler friendly strip.
It's pretty clear that we are missing all the wickets and experience that Anderson and Broad offered although the management should have been factoring that into their thinking before it happened ( Australia dipped when Warne and Mcgrath retired at roughly the same time)
0 -
Carse does not open the bowling and probably never has done and is being used as a point of difference.Telling Stokes that you don't want the new ball is probably the last thing you do under this regime too.fenaddick said:
Carse has played 75 FC + Test matches plus countless white ball both internationally and domestically, since making his debut 9 years ago. That isn't someone learning their craft who should need to be taught how to bowl line and length. And if those aren't his strength he should say so and not take the new ball.Addick Addict said:
A "seasoned pro" who bowls 32 overs a season outside Test duties. He's never going to become a consistent line and length bowler doing that and certainly not an opening bowler without doing so. He wouldn't get in front of Anderson, Broad and Woakes at their peak at home but they have all retired and we aren't in England either.fenaddick said:
Which is a similar argument many have used about Bashir when he was getting wickets with boundary catches, it's flimsy.Addick Addict said:
But that is his strength - his bowling lacks consistently but he takes wickets because the Aussies want to take him on and sometimes they take on the wrong ball simply because he doesn't consistently bowl line and length. Carse has dismissed their two best batters, Head and Smith, 6/12 times they've been outfenaddick said:I get your point AA but it isn't borne out by watching it, particularly these last two tests. So many of his wickets have been down to poor shots rather than anything else. Part of that is that he's being attacked because he's so erratic there are balls to be hit. Watch the highlights and he will probably look dangerous, watch every ball and he just looks not up to it. Some of that is how good the Aussie batters are but the fact he's opening the bowling is wild
Carse has come back test after test. He's a work horse and there is a place in the side for him but he has to go back to county cricket and find that consistency of line and length and not be opening the bowling. Our focus on him is for all those poor deliveries but he he isn't the reason that we have lost this series. I would give him a 7/10 and apart from Root (probably an 8.50) I'm struggling to find anyone that has performed better than that over the course of the whole series for us. Certainly none of the other batters have and although Archer and Tongue have performed with credit, they both only had to do it for three of the Tests.
No questioning his attitude or work rate on the field but his bowling hasn't been up to scratch. A lot of that is systemic and down to a lack of consisten bowling coaches but he is also a seasoned pro who should be able to hold a consistent line and length by now
How many times has Bashir dismissed Head and Smith in this series? Those two, by definition in averaging 72.08 between them in the series, are more than capable of putting away bad balls. And yet Carse has dismissed them half a dozen times. They are too good not to learn from that. Why and how does that happen?
The fact that Bashir can't even get a game makes your argument even more "flimsy" than mine. If he were that good at bowling bad balls and getting wickets he would be playing. He's never even played against Australia and clearly cannot be trusted to do so.
My point about Bashir was the way he gets wickets is part of what is keeping him out of the side. It's also not like the Aussies are picking a front line spinner every match either. I don't think either Carse or Bashir are good enough so using the fact Bashir hasn't played isn't exactly the gotcha you think it is
You also seem to be ignoring the fact that Carse has got Head and Smith out six out of 12 times they've been dismissed and as many as the rest of the England attack put together - they were on 10, 17, 33, 46, 61 and 123 when they happened. Bashir was invariably getting tail enders out or Pant when he's already got to 150. Totally different.
As I say, Carse would not make our best bowling cohort from a decade ago. But we aren't there and he has made the best use of what he has. We have a few batters who look great but who don't score runs even on a road such as this one. Any weight of criticism should be pointed in their direction.0 -
Lack of preparation has been the consistent criticism in the last few years including for tournaments such as the 50 over World Cup and tours here and in India - remember the insistence that they were better training in Dubai than actually playing games in India. They didn't even learn from that debacle. The definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting different results.killerandflash said:I always expected us to lose the Ashes, as in their home conditions, Australia are better than us. But the chasm in the results doesn't reflect the raw abilities of the teams.
With the batting, while the lack of proper match practice before the series didn't help, it's more a mental thing. The freedom of the Bazball era has produced a casualness and lack accountability in our batting, where when things are tough, instead of grinding it out, swishing a few shots before getting out is seen as fine, as you're taking the "positive option". Duckett, Brook and Smith are definitely guilty of this.
With the bowling, it's more down to the awful preparation, with so many bowlers undercooked before the series, the lack of a permanent bowling coach (Saker returning at the last minute), the lack of practice games in local conditions, the lack of mid series practice for players like Potts (a common issue with modern tours). And having too many Reece Burke type bowlers, who can't be relied on to play many games without getting injured again.
Plus England have misread the local conditions. Pundits like Vaughan who work out in Australia every year, have previously noted that the pitches now do a lot more than they used to, so that Broad/Anderson style metronomic fast medium bowlers have been very effective. Yes Starc has been magnificent, but Boland has 18 wickets at 25 and Neser 14 at 17.
As for the fielding, that's surely down to not enough preparation and practice, not helped by the lack of a fielding coach. All players will drop the occasional catch, but the more you practice, the fewer you drop.2 -
Still feeling positive for the last 2 days. Get them all out before lunch, trailing by no more than 180, then foot down for the next 3 sessions to get a lead ourselves of 150+. Then its down to the spin twins of Jacks & Bethel to skittle them out before the end of day 5.
Believe.....4 -
Who are you and what have you done with golfie?golfaddick said:Still feeling positive for the last 2 days. Get them all out before lunch, trailing by no more than 180, then foot down for the next 3 sessions to get a lead ourselves of 150+. Then its down to the spin twins of Jacks & Bethel to skittle them out before the end of day 5.
Believe.....2 -
Still here 👋.fenaddick said:
Who are you and what have you done with golfie?golfaddick said:Still feeling positive for the last 2 days. Get them all out before lunch, trailing by no more than 180, then foot down for the next 3 sessions to get a lead ourselves of 150+. Then its down to the spin twins of Jacks & Bethel to skittle them out before the end of day 5.
Believe.....
I think the Aussies biggest downfall will be to bat too long. Smith loves to bat & so if he is still there after lunch he will have to declare on himself.1 -
Oh no, Stokes gets 4 balls into an over but has to stop due to a groin (?) injury0
-
Sponsored links:
-
And if you didnt think it could get any worse.....
Stokes goes off mid-over with what looks like a pulled groin.
Not just a bowler down but could seriously impact on his batting.0 -
Carse is last man standing of the 5 bowlers we started with in Perth.0
-
We saw Marnus bowl seam up, Brook next?0
-
So we've now lost four bowlers (Wood, Archer, Atkinson and Stokes) to Australia's three (Hazlewood, Cummins and Lyon). Brutal stuff.0
-
Tongue gets Smith for a lowly 138. 544-80
-
Smith goes for 138.
Just 2 more wickets needed.0 -
Starc in at 10
0 -
What's the betting thats the last we see of him in tests?fenaddick said:Oh no, Stokes gets 4 balls into an over but has to stop due to a groin (?) injury0 -
killerandflash said:Starc in at 10
Webster at 9 is even worse - he now has five 50s in his 13 Test innings at an average of 40.72.0 -
Beauty from Tongue to bowl Starc for 5. 564-90
