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England Cricket 2025

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  • Very kind of the Aussies to prepare a pitch that moved around like Derby in April. Given how much England fans moan about those being the only conditions our team get to play red ball cricket in, that was very generous.

    Of course it's important not to let one narrow win in a chaotic match that the opposition didn't care about cover over the cracks in the England setup. But laughter is good for the soul so it's important that we all laugh long and hard at the Aussies.
  • MrOneLung said:
    To have two 2-day pitches in four games is a disgrace 
    Cricket Australia will have lost millions in revenue. 
  • Elthamaddick
    Elthamaddick Posts: 16,045
    Too little too late 
  • MarcusH26
    MarcusH26 Posts: 8,544
    MrOneLung said:
    To have two 2-day pitches in four games is a disgrace 
    Cricket Australia will have lost millions in revenue. 
    Boxing Day test they will have been banking on going 5 days. Huge losses for CA and I suspect the groundsman might not have a job much longer for preparing such a poor pitch. 
  • fenaddick
    fenaddick Posts: 13,857
    Having watched the morning session and read Callum’s updates I think there are positives to take from that. Carse was brilliant, if he’d bowled like that all series he’d have more wickets at a better rate with less caught on the boundary. Tongue was fantastic. Our slip fielding was brilliant. Aggressive cricket was the way to go on this wicket but our opening pair did it well in a way the Aussies didn’t and Bethell got a good score after a good decision from management to throw an extra player up the order. 

    Yes it’s very small green shoots but we’ve won a test down under for the first time in 14 years so I’m going to focus on the positives for a day!
  • Off_it
    Off_it Posts: 29,083
    Very kind of the Aussies to prepare a pitch that moved around like Derby in April. Given how much England fans moan about those being the only conditions our team get to play red ball cricket in, that was very generous.

    Of course it's important not to let one narrow win in a chaotic match that the opposition didn't care about cover over the cracks in the England setup. But laughter is good for the soul so it's important that we all laugh long and hard at the Aussies.
    That's like getting pasted in a fight and then laughing at the other bloke because he's got blood on his shirt ...... your blood.
  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 27,156
    I can’t get as excited about winning that game as much as I would have been annoyed if the innings/result was reversed 
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,555
    Yet again, worst shot award belongs to Cameron Green. Australia actually have more problems with their batting than England do
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,469
    Harry Brook becomes the first England player to hit the winning runs in an Ashes Test in Australia since Chris Broad, 39 years ago. 
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 21,138
    MarcusH26 said:
    MrOneLung said:
    To have two 2-day pitches in four games is a disgrace 
    Cricket Australia will have lost millions in revenue. 
    Boxing Day test they will have been banking on going 5 days. Huge losses for CA and I suspect the groundsman might not have a job much longer for preparing such a poor pitch. 
    A simple mower would have corrected it. Not sure you can blame the groundsman though (but he will be the scapegoat) - he would have been instructed to do what he did.


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  • fenaddick
    fenaddick Posts: 13,857
    Chizz said:
    Harry Brook becomes the first England player to hit the winning runs in an Ashes Test in Australia since Chris Broad, 39 years ago. 
    Weren’t they leg byes?
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,469
    fenaddick said:
    Chizz said:
    Harry Brook becomes the first England player to hit the winning runs in an Ashes Test in Australia since Chris Broad, 39 years ago. 
    Weren’t they leg byes?
    Oh, I thought he hit it! In that case the wait goes on...
  • fenaddick
    fenaddick Posts: 13,857
    Chizz said:
    fenaddick said:
    Chizz said:
    Harry Brook becomes the first England player to hit the winning runs in an Ashes Test in Australia since Chris Broad, 39 years ago. 
    Weren’t they leg byes?
    Oh, I thought he hit it! In that case the wait goes on...
    I only knew because I was about to post the question hoping to catch someone out, you just caught yourself before I could! 
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 64,819
    https://x.com/bbctms/status/2004833224086671517?s=46&t=ynww82GMl7VKBjthBflU0g

    “Ben Stokes has explained why England sent in Brydon Carse to bat at three.”
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 64,819
    Never heard of a press conference with a groundsman / “pitch curator” before.

    https://x.com/bbctms/status/2005039531976990801?s=46&t=ynww82GMl7VKBjthBflU0g
  • Poor bloke was the sacrificial lamb for the MCC, to try and give Cricket Australia an escape route out a monumental cock up. There is no way that someone high up at CA didn't get a look at that pitch in advance, given how much financially hung on the match. Think they probably thought it woulf be hilarious to roll the Poms in 3 1/2 days, and it backfired spectacularly.
  • Shag
    Shag Posts: 4,579
    Have gone to Melbourne Fc v Perth glory tonight and there’s a fella in the Perth ‘end’ who is wearing a Charlton shirt!
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,469
    We should have played another Test, starting on day three. Thereby keeping the series alive until the two Sydney Tests in the New Year. 
  • Surely there has to be complete change in this set up starting with Brendon McCullum , Rob Key and selector Luke Wright. Bazball is fine in T20 games but it’s been proven over and over again that it fails in red ball cricket and especially in 50 over games . 
    We can’t keep picking Crawley and expecting him to come good and the same goes for Duckett and Smith who is too quiet behind the stumps . Brook looks like he’s playing Kamikaze cricket from ball one and he’s better than that. Our bowling department is fine apart from the fact that Archer and Wood have joints made of twiglets . 
    Time for wholesale changes because this Ashes series has became a total embarrassment on and off the pitch . 
    Currently our top scorer in the second Ashes running, though.  Not a huge win in a piss poor series, but he's looked much more of a player since there's been less pressure to play the Bazball type stuff.

    Unless someone else is knocking down the door....
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 64,819
    Crawley is the top scorer in the last two Ashes series, and the most recent tour of India…

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  • MarcusH26
    MarcusH26 Posts: 8,544
    Atkinson ruled out of the 5th test. Finally a chance for Matty Potts. 
  • billysboots
    billysboots Posts: 1,616
    MarcusH26 said:
    Atkinson ruled out of the 5th test. Finally a chance for Matty Potts. 
    You will find out how much he has upset the management when they call up Ollie Robinson from grade cricket. 
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 40,562
    edited December 2025
    It really is "land of the blind England batting" stuff when we are lauding Crawley for being top runs scorer in averaging 32 in this series especially as that is in keeping with his overall Test and First Class records. 

    Crawley was never picked on the basis of proven runs in county cricket but because the selectors liked the way he puts pressure on the opposition from the off. Ironically, that has failed him in this series (and numerous others too) but he has improved because he has gone against doing just that.

    We can also talk about the absence of other openers pushing him for a place. However, how does Hameed feel having been given just 19 innings to prove himself (as opposed to Crawley's 115 innings) and then been forgotten about for four years? He was rightly dropped but last season he averaged 66.21 at a SR of 58.24 in Division 1 whereas Crawley averaged 31.28 at a SR of 58.40 in Division 2. More than twice Crawley's average with virtually the same strike rate (a major criticism of Hameed previously) and playing against a better standard of bowling too. 

    Ultimately, it is results that count and Crawley's overall record including one MOM from 63 matches (and that in a drawn game) does suggest that he is very fortunate to have played as much as he has. The trouble is that, given the current form of Duckett (averages 40.06 overall), we probably should be looking for two new openers but will probably, under this regime anyway, persevere with both. Whereas Hameed didn't even get a reserve opener gig just in case we might actually have to pick him. If Pope was dropped for scoring 125 in the first three Tests then surely the same fate should have happened to Duckett for managing just 97 runs in the same period? 

    Below are two tables that demonstrate exactly where our current proven top five batters sit in the history of the game. 

    All 120 international players to have batted 100+ times in positions from 1-5:

    Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS
    Ave
    100 50
    KF Barrington (ENG) 78 119 14 6370 256 60.66 20 30
    SPD Smith (AUS) 113 196 26 10063 239 59.19 35 41
    WR Hammond (ENG) 84 137 15 7187 336* 58.90 22 24
    KC Sangakkara (SL) 134 232 17 12375 319 57.55 38 52
    JB Hobbs (ENG) 60 101 7 5399 211 57.43 15 28
    JH Kallis (ICC/SA) 160 268 38 13029 224 56.64 45 56
    L Hutton (ENG) 78 135 13 6856 364 56.19 19 32
    KS Williamson (NZ) 104 183 19 9171 251 55.92 32 36
    GS Chappell (AUS) 79 137 17 6575 247* 54.79 21 30
    SR Tendulkar (IND) 186 305 30 15059 248* 54.76 49 64
    Mohammad Yousuf (PAK) 89 144 10 7292 223 54.41 24 33
    SR Waugh (AUS) 114 157 24 7202 200 54.15 25 31
    Javed Miandad (PAK) 120 179 21 8547 280* 54.09 22 42
    RT Ponting (AUS) 135 230 21 11179 257 53.48 34 53
    BC Lara (ICC/WI) 131 230 6 11931 400* 53.26 34 48
    DCS Compton (ENG) 73 120 13 5585 278 52.19 16 27
    Younis Khan (PAK) 111 198 17 9428 313 52.08 31 30
    IVA Richards (WI) 115 167 11 8073 291 51.75 23 43
    R Dravid (ICC/IND) 159 274 30 12596 270 51.62 35 58
    MEK Hussey (AUS) 63 108 13 4896 195 51.53 14 24
    JE Root (ENG) 157 287 23 13536 262 51.27 40 64
    SM Gavaskar (IND) 123 208 13 9987 236* 51.21 34 44
    AB de Villiers (SA) 87 134 12 6219 278* 50.97 17 31
    RN Harvey (AUS) 76 127 9 6001 205 50.85 21 23
    ML Hayden (AUS) 103 184 14 8625 380 50.73 30 29
    Inzamam-ul-Haq (PAK) 101 160 14 7359 329 50.40 21 38
    AR Border (AUS) 123 194 27 8408 205 50.34 21 44
    DPMD Jayawardene (SL) 147 248 15 11676 374 50.11 34 49
    V Sehwag (ICC/IND) 99 171 6 8212 319 49.76 22 30
    MJ Clarke (AUS) 103 174 17 7729 329* 49.22 25 24
    Misbah-ul-Haq (PAK) 70 114 18 4716 161* 49.12 10 35
    S Chanderpaul (WI) 140 224 38 9115 203* 49.00 22 49
    RB Kanhai (WI) 78 129 4 6111 256 48.88 15 28
    TT Samaraweera (SL) 66 100 13 4252 231 48.87 12 23
    GP Thorpe (ENG) 91 154 26 6221 200* 48.60 15 36
    GC Smith (ICC/SA) 117 203 12 9195 277 48.14 27 37
    G Boycott (ENG) 108 193 23 8114 246* 47.72 22 42
    KP Pietersen (ENG) 104 179 8 8156 227 47.69 23 35
    MD Crowe (NZ) 74 124 11 5370 299 47.52 17 18
    PBH May (ENG) 65 104 9 4514 285* 47.51 13 22
    HM Amla (SA) 122 211 16 9246 311* 47.41 28 41
    M Azharuddin (IND) 83 114 6 5106 199 47.27 18 17
    WM Lawry (AUS) 67 123 12 5234 210 47.15 13 27
    V Kohli (IND) 118 200 13 8815 254* 47.13 29 28
    M Labuschagne (AUS) 61 109 9 4571 215 45.71 11 25
    TW Graveney (ENG) 76 112 11 4610 258 45.64 11 19
    PA de Silva (SL) 87 143 10 6037 267 45.39 19 22
    CH Lloyd (WI) 71 107 7 4530 242* 45.30 11 20
    LRPL Taylor (NZ) 112 193 24 7645 290 45.23 19 35
    AN Cook (ENG) 161 290 15 12423 294 45.17 33 57
    JL Langer (AUS) 104 181 12 7627 250 45.13 23 29
    G Kirsten (SA) 101 174 14 7209 275 45.05 21 34
    DJ Cullinan (SA) 69 112 11 4537 275* 44.92 14 20
    IM Chappell (AUS) 69 121 8 5071 196 44.87 14 25
    Zaheer Abbas (PAK) 75 114 9 4706 274 44.81 12 16
    DA Warner (AUS) 112 204 8 8781 335* 44.80 26 37
    RB Richardson (WI) 85 145 12 5949 194 44.72 16 27
    CG Greenidge (WI) 108 185 16 7558 226 44.72 19 34
    DC Boon (AUS) 104 184 20 7283 200 44.40 21 31
    CA Pujara (IND) 100 172 11 7143 206* 44.36 19 35
    IR Redpath (AUS) 62 113 10 4557 171 44.24 8 31
    DI Gower (ENG) 114 199 17 8046 215 44.20 18 38
    MC Cowdrey (ENG) 110 175 14 7077 182 43.95 20 38
    UT Khawaja (AUS) 85 153 13 6146 232 43.90 16 28
    LD Chandimal (SL) 65 103 9 4121 206* 43.84 10 24
    ME Trescothick (ENG) 76 142 9 5824 219 43.78 14 29
    HH Gibbs (SA) 84 141 6 5903 228 43.72 14 25
    JH Edrich (ENG) 76 127 9 5138 310* 43.54 12 24
    AI Kallicharran (WI) 65 105 8 4221 187 43.51 11 21
    MA Taylor (AUS) 104 186 13 7525 334* 43.49 19 40
    VVS Laxman (IND) 93 147 16 5673 281 43.30 12 33
    AD Mathews (SL) 82 144 16 5524 200* 43.15 12 30
    RC Fredericks (WI) 58 108 7 4329 169 42.86 8 26
    MJ Slater (AUS) 74 131 7 5312 219 42.83 14 21
    G Gambhir (IND) 57 102 5 4141 206 42.69 9 22
    CH Gayle (WI) 101 176 10 7074 333 42.61 15 36
    GA Gooch (ENG) 118 215 6 8900 333 42.58 20 46
    DL Haynes (WI) 116 201 25 7472 184 42.45 18 39
    SC Ganguly (IND) 87 138 11 5391 239 42.44 12 24
    DB Vengsarkar (IND) 115 181 21 6777 166 42.35 17 34
    Saleem Malik (PAK) 72 108 12 4009 237 41.76 11 19
    Azhar Ali (PAK) 97 179 10 7050 302* 41.71 19 34
    RR Sarwan (WI) 78 134 4 5418 291 41.67 15 28
    GR Viswanath (IND) 89 149 9 5824 222 41.60 13 34
    ME Waugh (AUS) 119 194 15 7437 153* 41.54 18 45
    MP Vaughan (ENG) 79 140 8 5469 197 41.43 18 16
    MS Atapattu (SL) 86 148 14 5493 249 40.99 16 17
    AJ Strauss (ENG) 100 178 6 7037 177 40.91 21 27
    ST Jayasuriya (SL) 96 162 10 6133 340 40.34 13 26
    AJ Stewart (ENG) 102 179 13 6604 190 39.78 14 31
    SP Fleming (NZ) 108 184 10 6914 274* 39.73 9 43
    IR Bell (ENG) 96 159 13 5793 235 39.67 15 35
    TWM Latham (NZ) 91 164 6 6261 264* 39.62 16 31
    FDM Karunaratne (SL) 100 189 7 7140 244 39.23 16 38
    Tamim Iqbal (BAN) 70 134 2 5134 206 38.89 10 31
    M Vijay (IND) 60 104 1 3953 167 38.37 12 15
    KJ Hughes (AUS) 69 120 6 4354 213 38.19 9 22
    D Elgar (SA) 80 144 9 5155 199 38.18 13 23
    Mominul Haque (BAN) 75 137 10 4830 181 38.03 13 25
    N Hussain (ENG) 90 158 13 5504 207 37.95 14 32
    MW Gatting (ENG) 70 118 10 4092 207 37.88 10 20
    AJ Lamb (ENG) 76 129 10 4506 142 37.86 14 17
    MA Atherton (ENG) 115 210 6 7691 185* 37.70 16 46
    Mohammad Hafeez (PAK) 55 105 8 3652 224 37.64 10 12
    NJ Astle (NZ) 79 119 7 4216 222 37.64 10 22
    JG Wright (NZ) 82 147 6 5288 185 37.50 12 23
    AM Rahane (IND) 80 126 9 4386 188 37.48 10 23
    Mudassar Nazar (PAK) 70 109 6 3787 231 36.76 9 15
    WJ Cronje (SA) 63 100 7 3414 135 36.70 6 21
    CL Hooper (WI) 81 131 11 4387 233 36.55 10 21
    DM Bravo (WI) 56 102 5 3538 218 36.47 8 17
    KL Rahul (IND) 62 109 4 3819 199 36.37 10 19
    BKG Mendis (SL) 65 122 4 4189 245 35.50 9 18
    MA Butcher (ENG) 70 129 6 4236 173* 34.43 8 23
    BE Congdon (NZ) 57 106 7 3300 176 33.33 7 18
    KC Brathwaite (WI) 100 193 10 5950 212 32.51 12 31
    GM Wood (AUS) 59 107 5 3308 172 32.43 9 13
    Z Crawley (ENG) 62 114 2 3568 267 31.85 5 21
    Mohammad Ashraful (BAN) 59 110 4 2303 190 21.72 4 7
     

    All 55 England players to have batted 50+ times in positions from 1-5:

    Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS
    Ave
    100 50
    H Sutcliffe 54 83 9 4522 194 61.10 16 23
    KF Barrington 78 119 14 6370 256 60.66 20 30
    WR Hammond 84 137 15 7187 336* 58.90 22 24
    JB Hobbs 60 101 7 5399 211 57.43 15 28
    L Hutton 78 135 13 6856 364 56.19 19 32
    HC Brook 33 54 1 2978 317 56.18 10 13
    DCS Compton 73 120 13 5585 278 52.19 16 27
    JE Root 157 287 23 13536 262 51.27 40 64
    ER Dexter 55 91 7 4106 205 48.88 7 26
    GP Thorpe 91 154 26 6221 200* 48.60 15 36
    G Boycott 108 193 23 8114 246* 47.72 22 42
    KP Pietersen 104 179 8 8156 227 47.69 23 35
    PBH May 65 104 9 4514 285* 47.51 13 22
    DL Amiss 50 88 10 3612 262* 46.30 11 11
    TW Graveney 76 112 11 4610 258 45.64 11 19
    EH Hendren 45 66 7 2681 205* 45.44 5 18
    AN Cook 161 290 15 12423 294 45.17 33 57
    IJL Trott 52 91 6 3832 226 45.08 9 19
    DI Gower 114 199 17 8046 215 44.20 18 38
    C Washbrook 35 64 6 2563 195 44.18 6 12
    MC Cowdrey 110 175 14 7077 182 43.95 20 38
    ME Trescothick 76 142 9 5824 219 43.78 14 29
    JH Edrich 76 127 9 5138 310* 43.54 12 24
    WJ Edrich 34 58 2 2394 219 42.75 6 13
    GA Gooch 118 215 6 8900 333 42.58 20 46
    MP Vaughan 79 140 8 5469 197 41.43 18 16
    AJ Strauss 100 178 6 7037 177 40.91 21 27
    BA Stokes 39 61 6 2237 176 40.67 5 12
    PD Collingwood 54 85 7 3165 206 40.57 7 14
    RA Smith 53 91 9 3317 175 40.45 7 22
    BM Duckett 42 78 3 3005 182 40.06 6 16
    AJ Stewart 102 179 13 6604 190 39.78 14 31
    IR Bell 96 159 13 5793 235 39.67 15 35
    N Hussain 90 158 13 5504 207 37.95 14 32
    MW Gatting 70 118 10 4092 207 37.88 10 20
    AJ Lamb 76 129 10 4506 142 37.86 14 17
    PE Richardson 34 55 1 2042 126 37.81 5 9
    KWR Fletcher 56 87 11 2866 216 37.71 6 16
    MA Atherton 115 210 6 7691 185* 37.70 16 46
    OJ Pope 48 81 3 2826 205 36.23 8 10
    FE Woolley 45 68 4 2282 154 35.65 3 16
    MA Butcher 70 129 6 4236 173* 34.43 8 23
    AC MacLaren 32 55 3 1781 140 34.25 5 7
    TW Hayward 31 52 0 1775 137 34.13 2 12
    JM Bairstow 43 73 3 2333 162 33.32 5 9
    CJ Tavare 31 56 2 1755 149 32.50 2 12
    GA Hick 51 86 5 2629 141 32.45 4 15
    JT Tyldesley 29 51 1 1611 138 32.22 4 9
    Z Crawley 62 114 2 3568 267 31.85 5 21
    RJ Burns 32 59 0 1789 133 30.32 3 11
    RES Wyatt 37 50 4 1379 149 29.97 2 7
    DW Randall 37 57 4 1542 174 29.09 4 8
    MR Ramprakash 33 56 2 1396 133 25.85 1 7
    JM Brearley 36 58 2 1198 91 21.39 0 6

  • carly burn
    carly burn Posts: 19,697
    Mark Wood out for the rest of The Ashes …. Shock horror 
    Well I never.

    Probably see Archer out after the next one and Stokes to miss one of the last two if not both!
    Well I wasn't far out!
  • fenaddick
    fenaddick Posts: 13,857
    Please, no one quote that post from AA!
  • fenaddick said:
    Please, no one quote that post from AA!
    I might...................
  • MarcusH26
    MarcusH26 Posts: 8,544
    https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/4425833/england-men-name-provisional-icc-t20-world-cup-squad-and-squads-for-sri-lanka-whiteball-tour

    England Men’s IT20 Squad – Sri Lanka Tour & Provisional ICC Men’s T20 World Cup (15 players)

    Harry Brook (Yorkshire) (Captain)
    Rehan Ahmed (Leicestershire)
    Jofra Archer (Sussex) *ICC Men’s T20 World Cup only
    Tom Banton (Somerset)
    Jacob Bethell (Warwickshire)
    Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
    Brydon Carse (Durham) *Sri Lanka tour only
    Sam Curran (Surrey)
    Liam Dawson (Hampshire)
    Ben Duckett (Nottinghamshire)
    Will Jacks (Surrey)
    Jamie Overton (Surrey)
    Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)
    Phil Salt (Lancashire)
    Josh Tongue (Nottinghamshire)
    Luke Wood (Lancashire)


    England Men’s ODI Squad – Sri Lanka Tour (15 players)

    Harry Brook (Yorkshire) (Captain)

    Rehan Ahmed (Leicestershire)

    Tom Banton (Somerset)

    Jacob Bethell (Warwickshire)

    Jos Buttler (Lancashire)

    Brydon Carse (Durham)

    Zak Crawley (Kent)

    Sam Curran (Surrey)

    Liam Dawson (Hampshire)

    Ben Duckett (Nottinghamshire)

    Will Jacks (Surrey)

    Jamie Overton (Surrey)

    Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)

    Joe Root (Yorkshire)

    Luke Wood (Lancashire)

  • England management looking at those averages: So Duckettt averages more than Stewart, Hussain, Gatting or Atherton? Clearly he's one of the all-time greats and should get a permanent place...
  • England management looking at those averages: So Duckettt averages more than Stewart, Hussain, Gatting or Atherton? Clearly he's one of the all-time greats and should get a permanent place...
    I've been a big fan of Duckett but, in naming him in the WC squad, they are gambling that he will find some semblance of form (whereas they've left out the likes of Cox and Smith). This is his last 22 competitive innings, in all forms of the game, going all the way back to post the India Test series at the end of July - 317 runs at an average of 15.10:

    2  (Test)
    34 (Test)
    29 (Test)
    4  (Test)
    0  (Test)
    15 (Test)
    21 (Test)
    28 (Test)
    8  (ODI)
    (ODI)
    2  (ODI)
    31 (ODI)
    14 (ODI)
    5  (ODI)
    20 (100)
    49* (100)
    5 (100)
    11 (100)
    11 (100)
    7 (100)
    20 (100)
    0 (100)


  • Meanwhile, the Lions are 172-3 in their second innings against Australia A. Bethell is taking a leaf out of the book of Stokes and Jacks in being 59* off 123 balls. Whisper the name but Asa Tribe, a 21 year-old from Jersey who hit 222 in an innings for Glamorgan against Northants in the CC last season, is currently 76* (98).
    Tribe finished that innings for the Lions on 129*. It seems the IPL has already got their claws into him as he is currently playing in the SA20 for the Paarl Royals. I do worry that, with these young players not centrally contracted are going to find it virtually impossible to commit to England. There really should be a narrower gap between those have a contract and those that don't with Cox an example of someone who has been very successful at home and abroad but who seems out of the England picture.