Get official timekeepers to apply the exact extra time
That’s the one that could and should be implemented.
Momentum being lost is still an issue but at least players will know if they’re feigning injury the exact amount of time they spend faking it will be added on.
ATM there’s no way it’s comparable. Particularly for ‘injuries’ early in a game after a team has taken a flukey lead like on Saturday.
Part of the problem Saturday was that the ref allowed the slow taking of goal kicks etc from the minute they scored. Start warning/booking in the first half and the game will be much quicker. Doesn’t fix the injury thing but does fix another part of the issue
Apparently Ryan Inniss' Vegan Army beat Braintree at the weekend thanks to a goal scored after a Braintree player went down 'injured' and another player went to help him, and Forest Green simply played on and the ref allowed it. Think this might be the way - just continue the game until a substitute is ready
Apparently Ryan Inniss' Vegan Army beat Braintree at the weekend thanks to a goal scored after a Braintree player went down 'injured' and another player went to help him, and Forest Green simply played on and the ref allowed it. Think this might be the way - just continue the game until a substitute is ready
But that could potentially penalise real injuries and cause further damage. Take the Ramsay Injury at the weekend, it looked pretty innocuous at the time but clearly is fairly serious. It's exactly the type of injury where a ref might play on under this idea and all it takes is Ramsay moving his knee slightly wrong to make any damage worse
Apparently Ryan Inniss' Vegan Army beat Braintree at the weekend thanks to a goal scored after a Braintree player went down 'injured' and another player went to help him, and Forest Green simply played on and the ref allowed it. Think this might be the way - just continue the game until a substitute is ready
But that could potentially penalise real injuries and cause further damage. Take the Ramsay Injury at the weekend, it looked pretty innocuous at the time but clearly is fairly serious. It's exactly the type of injury where a ref might play on under this idea and all it takes is Ramsay moving his knee slightly wrong to make any damage worse
Well then, don't move. Play on until the ball is dead.
Also, take match situation into account. Maybe the game can be stopped if the injured player is on a team that's losing at the time, or if it's before the 70th minute
Apparently Ryan Inniss' Vegan Army beat Braintree at the weekend thanks to a goal scored after a Braintree player went down 'injured' and another player went to help him, and Forest Green simply played on and the ref allowed it. Think this might be the way - just continue the game until a substitute is ready
But that could potentially penalise real injuries and cause further damage. Take the Ramsay Injury at the weekend, it looked pretty innocuous at the time but clearly is fairly serious. It's exactly the type of injury where a ref might play on under this idea and all it takes is Ramsay moving his knee slightly wrong to make any damage worse
Well then, don't move. Play on until the ball is dead.
Also, take match situation into account. Maybe the game can be stopped if the injured player is on a team that's losing at the time, or if it's before the 70th minute
You ever had a horrifically painful injury? Quite hard to not move when you're in agony, it's what your body tells you to do
Apparently Ryan Inniss' Vegan Army beat Braintree at the weekend thanks to a goal scored after a Braintree player went down 'injured' and another player went to help him, and Forest Green simply played on and the ref allowed it. Think this might be the way - just continue the game until a substitute is ready
But that could potentially penalise real injuries and cause further damage. Take the Ramsay Injury at the weekend, it looked pretty innocuous at the time but clearly is fairly serious. It's exactly the type of injury where a ref might play on under this idea and all it takes is Ramsay moving his knee slightly wrong to make any damage worse
Well then, don't move. Play on until the ball is dead.
Also, take match situation into account. Maybe the game can be stopped if the injured player is on a team that's losing at the time, or if it's before the 70th minute
You ever had a horrifically painful injury? Quite hard to not move when you're in agony, it's what your body tells you to do
I mean, Ramsay was flinging himself all over the place anyway, yeah. Any playing on would have been immaterial. That said, given the match situation (losing AND in the first half) I see no reason not to stop the game
Apparently Ryan Inniss' Vegan Army beat Braintree at the weekend thanks to a goal scored after a Braintree player went down 'injured' and another player went to help him, and Forest Green simply played on and the ref allowed it. Think this might be the way - just continue the game until a substitute is ready
But that could potentially penalise real injuries and cause further damage. Take the Ramsay Injury at the weekend, it looked pretty innocuous at the time but clearly is fairly serious. It's exactly the type of injury where a ref might play on under this idea and all it takes is Ramsay moving his knee slightly wrong to make any damage worse
Well then, don't move. Play on until the ball is dead.
Also, take match situation into account. Maybe the game can be stopped if the injured player is on a team that's losing at the time, or if it's before the 70th minute
You ever had a horrifically painful injury? Quite hard to not move when you're in agony, it's what your body tells you to do
I mean, Ramsay was flinging himself all over the place anyway, yeah. Any playing on would have been immaterial. That said, given the match situation (losing AND in the first half) I see no reason not to stop the game
But my point is that that injury can happen at any point in a game at any game state. If it happened in the 90th minute when we're 1-0 down I still think the player should get the medical treatment they need
Apparently Ryan Inniss' Vegan Army beat Braintree at the weekend thanks to a goal scored after a Braintree player went down 'injured' and another player went to help him, and Forest Green simply played on and the ref allowed it. Think this might be the way - just continue the game until a substitute is ready
But that could potentially penalise real injuries and cause further damage. Take the Ramsay Injury at the weekend, it looked pretty innocuous at the time but clearly is fairly serious. It's exactly the type of injury where a ref might play on under this idea and all it takes is Ramsay moving his knee slightly wrong to make any damage worse
Well then, don't move. Play on until the ball is dead.
Also, take match situation into account. Maybe the game can be stopped if the injured player is on a team that's losing at the time, or if it's before the 70th minute
You ever had a horrifically painful injury? Quite hard to not move when you're in agony, it's what your body tells you to do
I mean, Ramsay was flinging himself all over the place anyway, yeah. Any playing on would have been immaterial. That said, given the match situation (losing AND in the first half) I see no reason not to stop the game
But my point is that that injury can happen at any point in a game at any game state. If it happened in the 90th minute when we're 1-0 down I still think the player should get the medical treatment they need
You mean if we're 1-0 up? Idk, I'm seriously of a mind that if a team is drawing or winning after the 70th minute, play should continue unless it's an obviously bad injury. And if a player fakes an obviously bad injury then doesn't go off, automatic yellow
Just get referees who truly understand the game. Rather than tossers who haven’t got a clue but like to be the centre of attention.
I agree that the standard of refereeing in this country, and particularly at our level, is not good but I'm not convinced that the reason is because of clueless attention-seeking tossers, no matter what I might have been shouting yesterday afternoon. I think the problems we have with refereeing are probably more structural than personal.
The wider the base of the pyramid, the higher the peak. Less people want to referee. It is easy to say ‘just’ get this or that referee, or do this or that thing, but what if the problem is lack of choice? I doubt if as many as 15% of players, coaches, managers and others have actually read the laws of the game, yet they think they are experts. Below is the offside law. A common assumption is that you can only be offside if the ball is played forward, but it doesn’t say that in law 11.
Apparently Ryan Inniss' Vegan Army beat Braintree at the weekend thanks to a goal scored after a Braintree player went down 'injured' and another player went to help him, and Forest Green simply played on and the ref allowed it. Think this might be the way - just continue the game until a substitute is ready
But that could potentially penalise real injuries and cause further damage. Take the Ramsay Injury at the weekend, it looked pretty innocuous at the time but clearly is fairly serious. It's exactly the type of injury where a ref might play on under this idea and all it takes is Ramsay moving his knee slightly wrong to make any damage worse
Well then, don't move. Play on until the ball is dead.
Also, take match situation into account. Maybe the game can be stopped if the injured player is on a team that's losing at the time, or if it's before the 70th minute
You ever had a horrifically painful injury? Quite hard to not move when you're in agony, it's what your body tells you to do
I mean, Ramsay was flinging himself all over the place anyway, yeah. Any playing on would have been immaterial. That said, given the match situation (losing AND in the first half) I see no reason not to stop the game
But my point is that that injury can happen at any point in a game at any game state. If it happened in the 90th minute when we're 1-0 down I still think the player should get the medical treatment they need
You mean if we're 1-0 up? Idk, I'm seriously of a mind that if a team is drawing or winning after the 70th minute, play should continue unless it's an obviously bad injury. And if a player fakes an obviously bad injury then doesn't go off, automatic yellow
No, I meant 1-0 down and an opposition player goes down with a Ramsay style injury. Your suggestion is subjective and asking non medical experts to make a medical decision. In theory that could possibly open them/the FA up to legal action too.
Apparently Ryan Inniss' Vegan Army beat Braintree at the weekend thanks to a goal scored after a Braintree player went down 'injured' and another player went to help him, and Forest Green simply played on and the ref allowed it. Think this might be the way - just continue the game until a substitute is ready
But that could potentially penalise real injuries and cause further damage. Take the Ramsay Injury at the weekend, it looked pretty innocuous at the time but clearly is fairly serious. It's exactly the type of injury where a ref might play on under this idea and all it takes is Ramsay moving his knee slightly wrong to make any damage worse
Well then, don't move. Play on until the ball is dead.
Also, take match situation into account. Maybe the game can be stopped if the injured player is on a team that's losing at the time, or if it's before the 70th minute
You ever had a horrifically painful injury? Quite hard to not move when you're in agony, it's what your body tells you to do
I mean, Ramsay was flinging himself all over the place anyway, yeah. Any playing on would have been immaterial. That said, given the match situation (losing AND in the first half) I see no reason not to stop the game
But my point is that that injury can happen at any point in a game at any game state. If it happened in the 90th minute when we're 1-0 down I still think the player should get the medical treatment they need
You mean if we're 1-0 up? Idk, I'm seriously of a mind that if a team is drawing or winning after the 70th minute, play should continue unless it's an obviously bad injury. And if a player fakes an obviously bad injury then doesn't go off, automatic yellow
No, I meant 1-0 down and an opposition player goes down with a Ramsay style injury. Your suggestion is subjective and asking non medical experts to make a medical decision. In theory that could possibly open them/the FA up to legal action too.
Fine. Well, something needs to be done to tilt the balance against cynical game-breaking, that's all
I think if a player is down for over 1 minute for treatment they have to be subbed off.
I also like the idea of stopping the clock at all injury, subs events. Means we get the exact amount of time played. Added time is always so inconsistent and half the added time is wasted anyway.
- No subs allowed in extra-time. - Subbed player carded when deliberately wasting time leaving the pitch. - Goalkeeper carded when delaying a penalty. - All simulation carded. - Any player suddenly sitting down in isolation (to stop play - momentum) should be taken off the pitch immediately for "treatment" and suffer a 5 minute penalty before being allowed back on.
If a player is injured and physio comes on then player goes off for two minutes. If the player causing the injury is booked as a result of the tackle he also has to go off for 2 minutes. Bit clunky but may stop so many injury breaks.
Agree with the previous comment regarding retrospective suspensions for faking head injuries.
So, the injured player always gets punished and the injuring player sometimes gets punished?
Does the injured player's two minutes start 1. as soon as the physio comes on the pitch? 2. when he makes it off the pitch? Or 3. when the person who fouled him is booked?
Because if it's 3, then he's likely to have to be off the pitch for longer than the person who committed the foul (assuming he makes it off the pitch before the ref completed the booking). And if it's 1 or 2, then he's punished with time off the pitch more than the person who fouled him.
Do they both come onto the pitch at the same time? Or does the injured player's two minutes start sooner, in which case someone (the ref? the fourth official? someone else?) will have to keep at least two stopwatches going before allowing them back on the pitch.
All this to stop "timewasting", and to replace the ref's ability to "add time on"?
An incident that happens all the time and really grips my shit. Saw it on Saturday, towards the end of the match, we were given a free kick and as our player placed it on the ground, two Stockport players immediately ran towards him and stood right in front of the ball. In my opinion, any opposition player that moves towards the ball (within 10 yds) should get booked.
As far as making subs to break up the game, why not allow subs to be made during live play? This can be done by the 4th official, so he can control when they can enter the pitch. This way they can do away with the ruling of how many sub breaks you can make in a match.
Law 13: "...an opponent who deliberately prevents a free kick being taken quickly must be cautioned for delaying the restart of play."
There was a rather odd happenstance on Saturday. When the referee awarded the Stockport penalty, the Stockport player fouled was treated by the physio. I thought at the time that the player would then be off the pitch for 30 seconds from the post penalty re-start, but Stockport had all 11 players on the pitch when we kicked off after the penalty.
- Take players off the field for treatment and continue the play (or, adopt rugby rules by treating injured players on the field without stopping the game)
- Stop pitch-side coaching and water sessions during the game
- Subbed players to leave the field by the nearest touchline
- Get official timekeepers to apply the exact extra time
- Match officials to be of the same calibre as those seen in rugby and outlaw players intimidation tactics to change decisions
Any more ideas to improve the enjoyment and take back the game from the cheats before we lose it altogether?
I don’t think that will ever happen. Football is a very different game to rugby, and play spreads out all over the pitch much more rapidly.
I like the other ideas, although water breaks should be allowed if very hot.
Unfortunately improving the standards of officials may not be as easy as you think.
I think they should considering retrospective red and yellow cards for feigning injury, if replays show there was no contact. Particularly for head injuries. Another idea is to trial 60 minute matches in one of the lower leagues, with a time keeper stopping the clock when the ball is out of play, or when play is stopped for other reasons. That would eliminate time wasting immediately.
Just stop the clock like they do in rugby. Whistle/siren goes on 90 mins, and the next time the ball goes out of play the game ends.
The timewasting/play acting is only successful in football because the correct amount of added time is never added.
It also breaks up all rhythm of play. I am convinced that even if the full 90 had been played v Blackpool we would have lost and they would still have messed around with us all leaving at 8pm. It's not just winding the clock down, it is destroying the oppositions rhythm. That's why I think, for keepers at least, at enforced substitution is the way. Then they could only do it once and a keeper isn't going to want to be subbed off anyway so simply will stop it immediately.
So many still saying to just add the right amount of minutes on. Which, while correct, completely misses this key point.
Teams hanging on to a lead would still go down with fake injuries any time the oppo had a spell of possession to break their momentum and give themselves a breather / take new tactical instruction.
While it’s unfortunate for players with real but not significant injuries, I do feel that there needs to be some sort of “automatic substitution” rule that would almost completely eradicate this form of timewasting.
For player safety, if you’re being attended to by the physio for longer than 30 seconds, you’re not fit to see out the rest of the match.
Not sure I agree with that last bit. If you hurt your ankle for example, that could be any one of a number of injuries, and it takes longer than 30 second to ascertain which it is. There are better ways of eradicating time wasting than that, surely.
Much of time wasting is to shorten the playing time, to reduce the chances of the other side scoring. Reducing momentum isn’t the only reason they do it.
am just not sure why we need so many substitutes - it encourages gamesmanship, wastes time & gives bigger, wealthier clubs an advantage. 3 subs on the bench is more than enough.
It's not about timekeeping, it's about managing the loss of momentum teams are forcing on each other. Time wasting that runs the clock down is annoying but not the end of the world and it can be worked around. What's killing the spectacle this season though is the deliberate stopping of any momentum from being developed and with it any enjoyment from the game. One of the best parts of the game is when you start making a few chances, the ball goes out for a throw or a corner and the roar goes up. That's being deliberately stifled by teams and while it's effective it means there isn't actually a lot of fun going to games anymore.
It's a new problem and it'll need a new solution. Keepers going down is almost unstoppable; you can't play on without a keeper and you can't accuse a keeper of faking and book him every time he goes down. You can say the players can't go to the bench but they will just find a way to pass a note, probably through the physio, and that doesn't prevent the game from being slowed down anyway. All I can think of is with the exception of the keeper players have a set amount of time to be removed from the field, say 20 seconds, and if they don't leave in that time with the exception of serious injury that leads to them being subbed they get booked when they return to the field. Still exploitable but more no questions asked bookings are needed. With the keeper the most you can do is say they can go down once and any recurrence means they have to be subbed. Still very exploitable but better than nothing. Ultimately it's about making it cost more to do it than you gain, and that's really difficult. I don't have a good solution but we need something or EFL attendances are going to go down more and more.
It's not about timekeeping, it's about managing the loss of momentum teams are forcing on each other. Time wasting that runs the clock down is annoying but not the end of the world and it can be worked around. What's killing the spectacle this season though is the deliberate stopping of any momentum from being developed and with it any enjoyment from the game. One of the best parts of the game is when you start making a few chances, the ball goes out for a throw or a corner and the roar goes up. That's being deliberately stifled by teams and while it's effective it means there isn't actually a lot of fun going to games anymore.
It's a new problem and it'll need a new solution. Keepers going down is almost unstoppable; you can't play on without a keeper and you can't accuse a keeper of faking and book him every time he goes down. You can say the players can't go to the bench but they will just find a way to pass a note, probably through the physio, and that doesn't prevent the game from being slowed down anyway. All I can think of is with the exception of the keeper players have a set amount of time to be removed from the field, say 20 seconds, and if they don't leave in that time with the exception of serious injury that leads to them being subbed they get booked when they return to the field. Still exploitable but more no questions asked bookings are needed. With the keeper the most you can do is say they can go down once and any recurrence means they have to be subbed. Still very exploitable but better than nothing. Ultimately it's about making it cost more to do it than you gain, and that's really difficult. I don't have a good solution but we need something or EFL attendances are going to go down more and more.
How does a ref decide what a serious injury is though? The GK one is the biggest issue as if you somehow stop outfield players doing it then GK's will just do it more. No idea how you stop it though
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Also, take match situation into account. Maybe the game can be stopped if the injured player is on a team that's losing at the time, or if it's before the 70th minute
Less people want to referee.
It is easy to say ‘just’ get this or that referee, or do this or that thing, but what if the problem is lack of choice?
I doubt if as many as 15% of players, coaches, managers and others have actually read the laws of the game, yet they think they are experts.
Below is the offside law. A common assumption is that you can only be offside if the ball is played forward, but it doesn’t say that in law 11.
https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside
The problem is referees are not there to be medics, so a player going down hurt is something they have to take on trust.
I also like the idea of stopping the clock at all injury, subs events. Means we get the exact amount of time played. Added time is always so inconsistent and half the added time is wasted anyway.
- Subbed player carded when deliberately wasting time leaving the pitch.
- Goalkeeper carded when delaying a penalty.
- All simulation carded.
- Any player suddenly sitting down in isolation (to stop play - momentum) should be taken off the pitch immediately for "treatment" and suffer a 5 minute penalty before being allowed back on.
Does the injured player's two minutes start
1. as soon as the physio comes on the pitch?
2. when he makes it off the pitch? Or
3. when the person who fouled him is booked?
Because if it's 3, then he's likely to have to be off the pitch for longer than the person who committed the foul (assuming he makes it off the pitch before the ref completed the booking). And if it's 1 or 2, then he's punished with time off the pitch more than the person who fouled him.
Do they both come onto the pitch at the same time? Or does the injured player's two minutes start sooner, in which case someone (the ref? the fourth official? someone else?) will have to keep at least two stopwatches going before allowing them back on the pitch.
All this to stop "timewasting", and to replace the ref's ability to "add time on"?
When the referee awarded the Stockport penalty, the Stockport player fouled was treated by the physio.
I thought at the time that the player would then be off the pitch for 30 seconds from the post penalty re-start, but Stockport had all 11 players on the pitch when we kicked off after the penalty.
Another idea is to trial 60 minute matches in one of the lower leagues, with a time keeper stopping the clock when the ball is out of play, or when play is stopped for other reasons. That would eliminate time wasting immediately.
Teams hanging on to a lead would still go down with fake injuries any time the oppo had a spell of possession to break their momentum and give themselves a breather / take new tactical instruction.
While it’s unfortunate for players with real but not significant injuries, I do feel that there needs to be some sort of “automatic substitution” rule that would almost completely eradicate this form of timewasting.
For player safety, if you’re being attended to by the physio for longer than 30 seconds, you’re not fit to see out the rest of the match.