We haven't had good enough players or Managers for a while now. It's mostly down to money IMHO
It’s due to poor spending of money. Our budget hasn’t really been a problem other than in 2022/23 when Sandgaard had given up. I suspect that would have been our lowest budget of recent times and we actually finished higher up the league
Poor recruitment is our problem, until that changes we are just going to keep cycling through managers that get an initial performance bounce but then trail off
I just look at the players we've signed for what most people would count as significant fees for this league over the past few years and barely any of them have been a success.
Recruitment needs to be significantly overhauled and I wouldn't trust another transfer window to Andy Scott.
Whoever replaces Jones will have to try and get a tune out of basically the same squad with a couple of January window signings of their choosing and then we'll be sitting here in the summer making another 8-10 signings because the new manager wants their own players.
Feels like a never ending merry-go-round of poor recruitment leading to poor results.
Which is why we need to stick with a manager and/or style. I’d rather not get rid of Jones, but if it does need to happen we will probably be stupid again and jump to a completely different style of football with a manager that will want to rid of most of the squad (which won’t be possible) and we go round the cycle again
One advantage this time is that the players dont fit into the Jones system so trying a different one isn't quite the problem it would have been. The problem is more finding a system in which a group of midfielders with almost identical mid range skills and no real creativity can be moulded into an attacking force to be feared.
Overall I agree with those who look past Jones. I cannot see Jones getting any better and he seems to have some really didgy ideas in his locker as well as a pig headed refusal to change. But the overrriding problem seems to be the recruitment. Someone posted a list of all the players we have off loaded in the last few years, and the vast majority are playing at a lower level than ourselves, which suggests an ongoing failure by whoever is doing the scouting. If this is Scott, he at least should be moved out before january and we should be looking at developing a better recruitment personel.
As for Jones, I think he's a busted flush now. Getting outplayed at home by Crawley and Orient successively says a lot about where we are and we need to change at some point, but how many managerts would fancy the gig is a real problem. The halt, the sick and the lame.
Most of our players have been bought to play Jones style of high intensity direct football. We aren’t playing it well at all and it is quite often not even evident that we are trying it. But you can’t then just expect the same players to play a different style that doesn’t suit them. If we get a new manager Alex Mitchell isn’t suddenly going to be able to play it out from back, Ahadme isn’t suddenly going to be able to control a pass into his feet and lay it off to a team mate. We’d still only have 1 winger and that winger doesn’t have a good enough end product
I think Jones may need to go, I’m prepared to see if he can get a reaction on Saturday but I’m not massively confident he will. But if he does go we can’t just flip back to a completely different style. We are more likely to get relegated trying to do that mid-season with these players than we are by keeping Jones
If we go for a younger appointment that wants to completely change style and try to play nice football, with this squad it could be disastrous, especially mid-season. If Jones does go then we need to be looking at an Alex Neil, Darren Moore etc type manager
Fundamentally disagree with this.
Whilst I think the recruitment has been a disaster, I also think the group is much better than they have been showing and aside from the fact they’re not great, a large part of the reason for their pitiful output is the abysmal “tactics” (I struggle to even use that word as tactics to me intimates some kind of thought to opponents, in game situations and scenarios and altogether something more mindful and considered than what Jones does).
The players look completely bemused now and clearly have no belief themselves in how they’re being told to execute their duties. My opinion is that a more outward looking, sensible manager could “reasonably” easily get this group delivering at least better performances and results than the relegation results, and relegated performances they have been delivering since the first couple of weeks.
One of the key skills of a “manager” (everyone will recall that Jones insisted on that title to the board as opposed to the head coach role of some of his predecessors), is being able to recognise the strengths, weaknesses and abilities of the resources you do have and get the best out of them rather than stubbornly coaching them a single inflexible style.
we dont necessarily want or need a philosophy tiki taka football coach who plays pretty football. We just need somebody who has the above ability, the mindset to play both attacking (can be direct at times) and ugly / defensive football where the situation requires and, crucially, actually tries to win football matches by controlling them in some form and create moments of football which endanger our opponents.
What we definitely don’t want is a manager who actively wants the opposition to have the ball in the hope of them making a mistake and that is his sole plan come rain or shine, hailstones or heat warnings.
Powell’s teams were often direct and also often robust when needed. But it was flexible, attempted to work with the strengths of the resources we had; you’ve got Kermogant, so sign and play direct wingers. We now have Ahadme… and we don’t have a winger in our squad (well, just the one, but let’s play him centre forward instead).
We might well end up beating Mansfield on Saturday. But Jones ain’t for the future, he needs to go.
So you don’t fundamentally disagree at all then. The point I was making was that people have been calling for a younger manager that plays attractive football, but I think that could be disastrous and we instead need a more pragmatic manager like an Alex Neil or a Darren Moore if we are to get rid of Jones
I’m not sure another manager would get better results. How good do you think this squad is? For me it’s a top half league 1 squad, the hope at the start of the season was that Jones would be a good enough manager to over-achieve with it and get in the play offs. We’ve had some key players out injured so are now down to 12th, not great obviously, but without the injuries we’d probably be around where our squad should be
Sorry - should’ve clarified realise thst was a little unclear.
Fundamentally disagreed with the bits about not playing a different style with these players, they have been bought to play his style and we’re more likely to get relegated trying something else / we need a robust manager for this group.
they Can’t play his style which is why we are in catastrophic relegation form for the last 3 months.
I agree, the squad should certainly be capable of 7-12 with any vaguely adept manager and any attempt to win matches
the style is wrong, the manager is wrong
Change both and we shouldn’t be anywhere near relegation
the manager doesn’t need to play robust football they just need to be able to understand and respond to the players abilities / qualities
We are 12th though, and that’s with the injuries we’ve had recently. Without those we’d probably be just about where this squad should be, around 8th-10th
Clutching a bit there. 8 points form 6th, 4 from 21st, 10 points from our last 12 games and arguably fortunate with a lot of the points gained prior
every club gets injuries, we haven’t been that badly done by on them. No excuse.
Jones is an idiot and has to go.
We had games recently where we had 10+ players unavailable. I don’t think other clubs have had it that bad. Jones and Ramsay are our 2 best players too, and the problem is our replacements for them are nowhere near good enough, and they are players that Jones was stuck with because Scott spent money on them last year
We can’t just keep sacking managers at the first sign of bad form
We've got players back now, maybe nothing will change but I think we’re better off trying to give managers time rather than being a club that sacks a manager at the first sign of bad form. Powell would never have got his 2011/12 season with this kind of attitude
I'm not sure how much of a defense injuries are, either. We have good depth and it wasn't like NJ was forced to play youngsters. For many years we didn't even build a squad by the time the season started. I remember the first game against Sunderland at home and playing with a midfield or Levitt, Oztumer and Vennings. In previous seasons we've been stuck playing the likes of Ness and Josh Davison.
By comparison, NJ has been set up for success. A full squad at pre-season and senior cover in practically every position.
Quite. Holden was blooding Asiimwe and Anderson and AMB and Kanu at the beginning of last season. He had far, far more defence for being given time and not being sacked at the first sign of poor form than Jones.
Very few players go through a full season without missing a few games. Ramsay and Jones have both played well over half our games this season. Their backups are “adequate” senior players and their absence didn’t suddenly change the outcomes , we were shite with them in the team. No excuse.
Thats 2 players. Ahadme was out for a bit, he’s terrible anyway. Kanu, but he’s in theory our last choice striker. Mannion, but again the backup was essentially our first choice goalie that the others were dealing with last season.
injuries not been great but far from a crisis , no defence for Jones your honour
I’d have given Holden more time too. But he did lose 5 in a row and was in the relegation zone
When Ramsay and Jones were injured we were just outside the play offs. Their replacements are much worse and is why our defence has looked terrible until Saturday when Jones returned to it. To say their absence didn’t change the outcomes is just silly, we’ve only won 1 game since and it was against bottom of the league
I think it’s silly to suggest it has changed the outcome…
They both played at Stevenage. They both played at Shrewsbury, which was abysmal and a mirror image of the pathetic win at Burton. Jones played at Bristol R, at the time (since arguably matched) lauded by many as the worst showing in the clubs history.
We were fucking dreadful with them in the team, we’re fucking dreadful without.
Jones is an idiot.
So before the injuries to Jones and Ramsay we were 8th in the table (level with 6th and 4pts off 2nd) with 5 wins, 1 draw and 4 losses
Since they both got injured, up until Jones returned against Lincoln (where we immediately got a clean sheet): we won 1 game, drew 3 and lost 3
And you are saying their injuries didn’t change the outcomes!
The writing was on the wall. We were already delivering several shocking performances and had stopped fluking good results when both players were fit, available and playing some of which I’ve just listed.
But I get it, you clearly want Jones to stay. I think you’re bonkers, but everyone is entitled to their opinion!
If we lose on Saturday and don’t play well then I’ll join you. But we were doing alright before the injuries, getting clean sheets and winning games. First game with Jones back and we immediately don’t look like conceding. I’d give him a few games now we’ve got players back to prove that wasn’t fluke like you say it was
Jones being out was a big loss, but if we're honest our problem isn't really the defence as we don't concede many and we never get hammered. I think we've only lost by 2 goals once (at Reading), although Bristol Rovers was awful for 70 minutes before we got a couple of goals back.
So whilst having Jones back in the defence is a plus, it doesn't really address our main issue which is the attack and i don't think they can be addressed without a) a change in tactics and b) new players arriving. We have no creative players and no width, so i'm not sure what you're expecting to suddenly change?
Even when it was 'working' early on in the season i think we were fairly lucky. Snatching a late win at Wigan, very late winner v Orient, the uninspiring win at Shrewsbury. No one would really class those wins as good performances and the Orient game in particular i remember being pretty poor. Berry got a goal from nowhere but if it had ended 0-0 then we'd have all been saying how dull the game was but obviously getting 3 points glossed over the actual performance. There's only so long a side that creates as little as we do can ride their luck for before the opposition takes a chance or 2 and we get found out, and that's exactly what has happened.
You could argue that a new manager coming in would (for now) have to work with the same players, but i'd have faith that a new manager would at least address the above issues in January. I don't really have any faith at all that Jones will because his talk of 'not far off being a good side' kind of suggests he doesn't even see the problems that we've all been seeing for ages.
The change will be that now we can keep clean sheets again, we will start to win some games again. It’s not going to be a massive change in style or tactics, but the results should improve which will buy some time to sort the rest of it out.
I’m sure Jones knows that things need to change when we have the ball. The owners will have spoken with him about January and the season so far, and if he wasn’t admitting that then he would be sacked. We were a really poor side that finished 16th last season, we are a work in progress and he’s sorted the defence out but now needs to sort the other side of the game out. We've got half a good team which is probably why he says we’re not far off. He’s built teams before that have scored plenty of goals so I’d give him a bit longer to see if he can do to the attack what he’s done to the defence with a bit more time
I hope you are right and i want you to be right, but the Crawley game (i'll ignore the Orient debacle as it wasn't the full first XI) suggests we are a long way off.
I do actually think the defence is fine and the strikers are fine, however we will need to get rid of Aneke and Ahadme at the end of the season. The problem lies with the midfield and Jone's inabillity to see how crap it is and admit the shit he signed for the middle of the park are not good enough. Again as well as not signing wingers.
Aneke yes, Ahadme no. He'd do fine if he was given crosses in the box to attack. He's just a square peg in a round hole.
I do actually think the defence is fine and the strikers are fine, however we will need to get rid of Aneke and Ahadme at the end of the season. The problem lies with the midfield and Jone's inabillity to see how crap it is and admit the shit he signed for the middle of the park are not good enough. Again as well as not signing wingers.
Aneke yes, Ahadme no. He'd do fine if he was given crosses in the box to attack. He's just a square peg in a round hole.
Would be interested to know what you have seen in his game. I like his work ethic which can't be questioned so have no problem with him but I just don't see a player and struggle to understand his key strengths. We need a lot better to get out of this division.
I do actually think the defence is fine and the strikers are fine, however we will need to get rid of Aneke and Ahadme at the end of the season. The problem lies with the midfield and Jone's inabillity to see how crap it is and admit the shit he signed for the middle of the park are not good enough. Again as well as not signing wingers.
Aneke yes, Ahadme no. He'd do fine if he was given crosses in the box to attack. He's just a square peg in a round hole.
Would be interested to know what you have seen in his game. I like his work ethic which can't be questioned so have no problem with him but I just don't see a player and struggle to understand his key strengths. We need a lot better to get out of this division.
Scored a few for Cambridge last season so he's not as terrible as he's being made to look in our system.
Look at his goals from last season - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GogzjOWDocU - 8 of them scored from crosses into the box. Of course i get that 8 isn't exactly Haaland levels but it does show a bit of what he can do if you get decent balls in.
I do actually think the defence is fine and the strikers are fine, however we will need to get rid of Aneke and Ahadme at the end of the season. The problem lies with the midfield and Jone's inabillity to see how crap it is and admit the shit he signed for the middle of the park are not good enough. Again as well as not signing wingers.
Aneke yes, Ahadme no. He'd do fine if he was given crosses in the box to attack. He's just a square peg in a round hole.
But Ahadme is not good enough to warrant building a team around.
Just my opinion but a club with our resources should be signing more technically able strikers, and not relying on the likes of Stockley & Gassan.
I do actually think the defence is fine and the strikers are fine, however we will need to get rid of Aneke and Ahadme at the end of the season. The problem lies with the midfield and Jone's inabillity to see how crap it is and admit the shit he signed for the middle of the park are not good enough. Again as well as not signing wingers.
Aneke yes, Ahadme no. He'd do fine if he was given crosses in the box to attack. He's just a square peg in a round hole.
Would be interested to know what you have seen in his game. I like his work ethic which can't be questioned so have no problem with him but I just don't see a player and struggle to understand his key strengths. We need a lot better to get out of this division.
At Charlton, very little honestly but when you look at the clubs he's been more successful at he's been used to attack crosses and passes, he's certainly not a hold up player but I think he could still be useful in the right system (but terrible in the present one.)
I do actually think the defence is fine and the strikers are fine, however we will need to get rid of Aneke and Ahadme at the end of the season. The problem lies with the midfield and Jone's inabillity to see how crap it is and admit the shit he signed for the middle of the park are not good enough. Again as well as not signing wingers.
Come on now, the strikers are pretty mediocre. We’ve had good strikers in this division before - BWP, Kermorgant, Taylor - so we know what good looks like and none of our current crop are at that level.
Ahadme would be absolutely fine as third or fourth choice in a team that gets balls into the box. He’s not a promotion striker so we need at least two better. Miles hasn’t hit the expected levels since his return but I think he will. Godden will score goals given service. It’s our lack of ability in servicing the front two that the problem.
I do actually think the defence is fine and the strikers are fine, however we will need to get rid of Aneke and Ahadme at the end of the season. The problem lies with the midfield and Jone's inabillity to see how crap it is and admit the shit he signed for the middle of the park are not good enough. Again as well as not signing wingers.
Come on now, the strikers are pretty mediocre. We’ve had good strikers in this division before - BWP, Kermorgant, Taylor - so we know what good looks like and none of our current crop are at that level.
Aneke is probably the best (when he isn't injured), also you forgot May on that list.
Imo, we would have a difficult time if we came up against him and MK Dons right now. Sometimes it's more to do with the club itself than the level of football.
Elliot Lee for instance dropped down and is now back in this league, above us, has also picked up more man of the match awards and goals than all of our midfielders combined.
He was absolutely naff for us, but obviously something clicks for him there. It doesn't always work that way, cause Charlie Kirk is the opposite example of Lee, but I do believe some players just move to us at the wrong time and Gilbey might have been one of them. Looking like there is a chance we will find out next season the answer to this question anyway, oh joy.
If the next few games are rinse and repeat in terms of performances ( you know the one where every team we play know 100% we are going to keep knocking on long to whatever big bloke we have up front so they just put 2 players on him ) then the manager has to go. I personally have stopped listening to anything he has to say as imo it’s bullshit that he wants people to swallow. If he turns things around by having a reset in how he sets the team up then great we are all winners if he is stupid enough to keep doing the same things expecting a different outcome then he needs to go it’s as simple as that really
I do actually think the defence is fine and the strikers are fine, however we will need to get rid of Aneke and Ahadme at the end of the season. The problem lies with the midfield and Jone's inabillity to see how crap it is and admit the shit he signed for the middle of the park are not good enough. Again as well as not signing wingers.
Aneke yes, Ahadme no. He'd do fine if he was given crosses in the box to attack. He's just a square peg in a round hole.
Would be interested to know what you have seen in his game. I like his work ethic which can't be questioned so have no problem with him but I just don't see a player and struggle to understand his key strengths. We need a lot better to get out of this division.
Scored a few for Cambridge last season so he's not as terrible as he's being made to look in our system.
Look at his goals from last season - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GogzjOWDocU - 8 of them scored from crosses into the box. Of course i get that 8 isn't exactly Haaland levels but it does show a bit of what he can do if you get decent balls in.
I get the point you are trying to make but please god no, not again... the youtube myth should have been buried deep into the riverbed of the Thames almost 20 years ago with Izale Mcleod yet we're still regurgitating this today!!!
I do not need to look at a youtube video of literally seconds of him playing for another club last season.
I've watched him play 15 full matches for us this season and the real life evidence before our eyes is far more plentiful and far more relevant than some youtube snippets. I could produce a video of a few highlights from my amateur football career which would show me to look fairly tasty.
Playing to his strengths or not, the guy is right up towards the top of a competitive list of the worst strikers to play for the club.
I do actually think the defence is fine and the strikers are fine, however we will need to get rid of Aneke and Ahadme at the end of the season. The problem lies with the midfield and Jone's inabillity to see how crap it is and admit the shit he signed for the middle of the park are not good enough. Again as well as not signing wingers.
Aneke yes, Ahadme no. He'd do fine if he was given crosses in the box to attack. He's just a square peg in a round hole.
Would be interested to know what you have seen in his game. I like his work ethic which can't be questioned so have no problem with him but I just don't see a player and struggle to understand his key strengths. We need a lot better to get out of this division.
Scored a few for Cambridge last season so he's not as terrible as he's being made to look in our system.
Look at his goals from last season - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GogzjOWDocU - 8 of them scored from crosses into the box. Of course i get that 8 isn't exactly Haaland levels but it does show a bit of what he can do if you get decent balls in.
I get the point you are trying to make but please god no, not again... the youtube myth should have been buried deep into the riverbed of the Thames almost 20 years ago with Izale Mcleod yet we're still regurgitating this today!!!
I do not need to look at a youtube video of literally seconds of him playing for another club last season.
I've watched him play 15 full matches for us this season and the real life evidence before our eyes is far more plentiful and far more relevant than some youtube snippets. I could produce a video of a few highlights from my amateur football career which would show me to look fairly tasty.
Playing to his strengths or not, the guy is right up towards the top of a competitive list of the worst strikers to play for the club.
In terms of his impact he is entering Gordon Riddick/Dickie Plumb territory. Maybe more to come when he's used right. Could be the next Steve White
Had a browse of a Luton forum and found this interesting:
So what will tomorrow bring? Will this be the last time Edwards picks a team?What will his formation be...does he know? When Nathan Jones came to Luton with his ' diamond' he stuck with it,through hell and high water until the players got it, and it worked. Has Edwards got that inner belief, indeed has he got any belief? It's hard to see light at the end of this particular tunnel when there's not one there.
It felt like this was what we were doing with the 5-3-2 at the start of the season but then that was scrapped. Now you could switch their issues with Edwards about ours with NJ.
Yet, if any manager struggles while rigidly sticking to one formation they’ll be criticised for not having a plan b.
Here, Jones gets praised for it because it worked out.
Ultimately it doesn’t matter what formation, what players, how often you rotate and tinker - as long as you win games then fans will praise you for things they would otherwise find fault in.
I’m afraid Jones isn’t winning enough and understand the calls for him to go.
Imo, we would have a difficult time if we came up against him and MK Dons right now. Sometimes it's more to do with the club itself than the level of football.
Elliot Lee for instance dropped down and is now back in this league, above us, has also picked up more man of the match awards and goals than all of our midfielders combined.
He was absolutely naff for us, but obviously something clicks for him there. It doesn't always work that way, cause Charlie Kirk is the opposite example of Lee, but I do believe some players just move to us at the wrong time and Gilbey might have been one of them. Looking like there is a chance we will find out next season the answer to this question anyway, oh joy.
Completely agree with this. Have to start looking at ourselves as a club to why a large majority of players don't work here. It obviously falls under not recruiting the right players but there's a much deeper issue there as well.
How many signings in the last 4/5 years have looked brilliant on paper and turned out to be poor/ineffective. Kirk, MacGillvray, Fraser, Jaiyesimi, Payne and Greg Docherty spring straight to mind. Reckon you could put a list of over 20 players in this category.
Then you have your players like Alex Gilbey and Elliott Lee who were playing well before and after us.
Then even injury wise. We saw about half hour of Panutche Camara last season, he's played 21 in all comps for Crawley already this season! I know he was only there for 6 months but believe Chuks' injury record at Birmingham was decent as well.
I hate the fact that the doomsters always seemed to be proved right, and it's no consolation that they hate that too.
I'd luv it if NJ turned it around. Luv it, but I've seen our last three games on Sky, from start to finish.
The people you are referring too, probably me included are not doomsters, we just don’t see everything through rose tinted glasses
I have been heavily criticized by others on here for stating the following very early in the season however when you look closely……….
“We will finish 7th to 12th” “Ahadme is a hopeless player” ”Wrexham will finish above us” ”Jones could be gone by Christmas”
100%.
There is absolutely zero pleasure in being “proved right”. I would LOVE to be shown up as a fool who knows nothing and see us romp to promotion. I was ecstatic when Jones changed the formation and we produced that wonderful performance against Birmingham neither of which I had thought would happen.
However; I find it very bizarre when season after season, window after window, people start lauding signings who they had never heard of prior to then joining and praising our board for clever recruitment and savvy business - based on a look at their Wikipedia page or a handful of other clubs fan’s tweets, instead of watching them play and commenting on what they actually see.
I watched the Pompey friendly, and by the end of the Wigan game it was pretty clear and by the end of the Orient game absolutely clear that Ahadme and Campbell were clearly going to be a substantial downgrade on any strike force containing Alfie May, who almost instantly last pre season you could see was a great footballer.
Yet for weeks and months and even very recently there were still people intimating the contrary despite the clear evidence before their eyes.
Luke Berry played 17 games in the Prem last season don’t ya know!
That’s a big assumption you’ve made about how other people judge players.
I may be a saddo but I watch A LOT of football and have seen plenty of games including the likes of Docherty, Ahadme for example.
I’ve not previously seen either of those two perform as poorly as they have in a Charlton shirt so far. Docherty looks lost being asked to do a job he’s not suited to & Ahadme is there to nod in crosses that our midfielders aren’t capable of swinging in.
I hate the fact that the doomsters always seemed to be proved right, and it's no consolation that they hate that too.
I'd luv it if NJ turned it around. Luv it, but I've seen our last three games on Sky, from start to finish.
The people you are referring too, probably me included are not doomsters, we just don’t see everything through rose tinted glasses
I have been heavily criticized by others on here for stating the following very early in the season however when you look closely……….
“We will finish 7th to 12th” “Ahadme is a hopeless player” ”Wrexham will finish above us” ”Jones could be gone by Christmas”
100%.
There is absolutely zero pleasure in being “proved right”. I would LOVE to be shown up as a fool who knows nothing and see us romp to promotion. I was ecstatic when Jones changed the formation and we produced that wonderful performance against Birmingham neither of which I had thought would happen.
However; I find it very bizarre when season after season, window after window, people start lauding signings who they had never heard of prior to then joining and praising our board for clever recruitment and savvy business - based on a look at their Wikipedia page or a handful of other clubs fan’s tweets, instead of watching them play and commenting on what they actually see.
I watched the Pompey friendly, and by the end of the Wigan game it was pretty clear and by the end of the Orient game absolutely clear that Ahadme and Campbell were clearly going to be a substantial downgrade on any strike force containing Alfie May, who almost instantly last pre season you could see was a great footballer.
Yet for weeks and months and even very recently there were still people intimating the contrary despite the clear evidence before their eyes.
Luke Berry played 17 games in the Prem last season don’t ya know!
That’s a big assumption you’ve made about how other people judge players.
I may be a saddo but I watch A LOT of football and have seen plenty of games including the likes of Docherty, Ahadme for example.
I’ve not previously seen either of those two perform as poorly as they have in a Charlton shirt so far. Docherty looks lost being asked to do a job he’s not suited to & Ahadme is there to nod in crosses that our midfielders aren’t capable of swinging in.
Ahadme had played what 50 odd games before joining us? How many of those were even televised , maybe 5?
You telling me Charlton fans have been hunting out Burton Albion and Cambridge United live streams? I know things have been bad for us but sweet lord Callum. If you have been doing this then I’m inclined to agree with your self assessment!
Imo, we would have a difficult time if we came up against him and MK Dons right now. Sometimes it's more to do with the club itself than the level of football.
Elliot Lee for instance dropped down and is now back in this league, above us, has also picked up more man of the match awards and goals than all of our midfielders combined.
He was absolutely naff for us, but obviously something clicks for him there. It doesn't always work that way, cause Charlie Kirk is the opposite example of Lee, but I do believe some players just move to us at the wrong time and Gilbey might have been one of them. Looking like there is a chance we will find out next season the answer to this question anyway, oh joy.
Completely agree with this. Have to start looking at ourselves as a club to why a large majority of players don't work here. It obviously falls under not recruiting the right players but there's a much deeper issue there as well.
How many signings in the last 4/5 years have looked brilliant on paper and turned out to be poor/ineffective. Kirk, MacGillvray, Fraser, Jaiyesimi, Payne and Greg Docherty spring straight to mind. Reckon you could put a list of over 20 players in this category.
Then you have your players like Alex Gilbey and Elliott Lee who were playing well before and after us.
Then even injury wise. We saw about half hour of Panutche Camara last season, he's played 21 in all comps for Crawley already this season! I know he was only there for 6 months but believe Chuks' injury record at Birmingham was decent as well.
It is odd, I think we may actually be cursed. It's pretty ridiculous when you hear how good the reviews are about players before they get here, and when they get here they usually underperform.
It might be some in house stuff, maybe behind the scenes there are some issues, who knows.
I can't put it down to the expectations, because respectfully, our ground is too big for us, and there can't be much pressure playing at a half empty Valley every week. I don't think we are a fan base who will wait outside the game in our numbers after a poor game like some fan bases.
I'd love to see a documentary type series around our club. Behind the scenes, the dressing room vibe etc. If you think how well JiMMy 85 does with his BoA docu series, and had that at Charlton, it would make for excellent TV.
Tactics have nothing to do with basic ball control skills and being able to pass the ball to a player a few yards away, areas where we appear to be inept on the basis of what I've seen, and if Ahadme is supposed to be that much worse than anyone else in that regard, it wasn't obvious to me.
I've read on here that our season is over enough times in the last few weeks, so what expectation is there in changing manager with play offs out of reach. I don't like what I'm seeing, but I think we should back him unless relegation is looming large, which it isn't....... yet!
Lee always had the raw ability to do alright at this level. But Gilbey is not a good player. If he starts pulling up trees in L1, I'll eat my hat. And my shoes.
L2 is a funny league. It wasn't long ago that Lapslie scored a few and there were calls to bring him back.
Most players who were crap for us have gone on to be crap elsewhere. Some can't even find a club. It's not a curse problem, it's got to be recruitment.
At the other end of the table, watching Tranmere Rovers appears to have all the festive cheer of a trip to the dentist with Nigel Adkins overseeing five defeats from seven games as Harrogate Town visit Prenton Park.
Imo, we would have a difficult time if we came up against him and MK Dons right now. Sometimes it's more to do with the club itself than the level of football.
Elliot Lee for instance dropped down and is now back in this league, above us, has also picked up more man of the match awards and goals than all of our midfielders combined.
He was absolutely naff for us, but obviously something clicks for him there. It doesn't always work that way, cause Charlie Kirk is the opposite example of Lee, but I do believe some players just move to us at the wrong time and Gilbey might have been one of them. Looking like there is a chance we will find out next season the answer to this question anyway, oh joy.
Completely agree with this. Have to start looking at ourselves as a club to why a large majority of players don't work here. It obviously falls under not recruiting the right players but there's a much deeper issue there as well.
How many signings in the last 4/5 years have looked brilliant on paper and turned out to be poor/ineffective. Kirk, MacGillvray, Fraser, Jaiyesimi, Payne and Greg Docherty spring straight to mind. Reckon you could put a list of over 20 players in this category.
Then you have your players like Alex Gilbey and Elliott Lee who were playing well before and after us.
Then even injury wise. We saw about half hour of Panutche Camara last season, he's played 21 in all comps for Crawley already this season! I know he was only there for 6 months but believe Chuks' injury record at Birmingham was decent as well.
It is odd, I think we may actually be cursed. It's pretty ridiculous when you hear how good the reviews are about players before they get here, and when they get here they usually underperform.
It might be some in house stuff, maybe behind the scenes there are some issues, who knows.
I can't put it down to the expectations, because respectfully, our ground is too big for us, and there can't be much pressure playing at a half empty Valley every week. I don't think we are a fan base who will wait outside the game in our numbers after a poor game like some fan bases.
I'd love to see a documentary type series around our club. Behind the scenes, the dressing room vibe etc. If you think how well JiMMy 85 does with his BoA docu series, and had that at Charlton, it would make for excellent TV.
Agree with a lot of this except the stadium thing, one thing I will say about us a fanbase, which is understandable what we've been through over the last 10-15 years, that we do have a habit of turning on players/managers quite quickly. I don't think we're unique in this regard, but it doesn't take much before you can audibly hear grumbles around the valley. I think we've had a number of squads who let that get to them, and in turn their confidence goes in the toilet, as opposed to having a squad who will use that as a motivation to kick on and win the fans back over.
But yes, we are 100% cursed, particularly so over the last 5 years.
Tactics have nothing to do with basic ball control skills and being able to pass the ball to a player a few yards away, areas where we appear to be inept on the basis of what I've seen, and if Ahadme is supposed to be that much worse than anyone else in that regard, it wasn't obvious to me.
I've read on here that our season is over enough times in the last few weeks, so what expectation is there in changing manager with play offs out of reach. I don't like what I'm seeing, but I think we should back him unless relegation is looming large, which it isn't....... yet!
First sentence is true to an extent but Jones puts a lot more emphasis on the defensive side of the game, both with the lack of attacking signings outside of strikers, and in our tactics and coaching.
Why do smaller clubs look more comfortable on the ball and more creative than us? There was even a moment in the Orient game when Pratley drifted on to the right wing, from what I remember he just kept possession.
Our tactics are so direct and rigid. Lloyd Jones talked about them being braver on the ball and not playing route one - the manager needs to drive that message, but he seems to push the opposite of avoiding risks so far that these players look worse on the ball than they actually are.
While I agree this squad can’t play pretty football, we don’t need them to, we need them to play more football than the pure defensive hoofball Jones sticks to.
Imo, we would have a difficult time if we came up against him and MK Dons right now. Sometimes it's more to do with the club itself than the level of football.
Elliot Lee for instance dropped down and is now back in this league, above us, has also picked up more man of the match awards and goals than all of our midfielders combined.
He was absolutely naff for us, but obviously something clicks for him there. It doesn't always work that way, cause Charlie Kirk is the opposite example of Lee, but I do believe some players just move to us at the wrong time and Gilbey might have been one of them. Looking like there is a chance we
It is odd, I think we may actually be cursed.
Didn't Barry Fry wee on all 4 corner flats at one club to remove a gipsy curse?
Imo, we would have a difficult time if we came up against him and MK Dons right now. Sometimes it's more to do with the club itself than the level of football.
Elliot Lee for instance dropped down and is now back in this league, above us, has also picked up more man of the match awards and goals than all of our midfielders combined.
He was absolutely naff for us, but obviously something clicks for him there. It doesn't always work that way, cause Charlie Kirk is the opposite example of Lee, but I do believe some players just move to us at the wrong time and Gilbey might have been one of them. Looking like there is a chance we
It is odd, I think we may actually be cursed.
Didn't Barry Fry wee on all 4 corner flats at one club to remove a gipsy curse?
I wonder if months of listening to Nathan's incoherent and contradictory ramblings, together with his anxiety ridden shouting from the side lines have made the players uptight and nervous? They certainly don't appear to be relaxed and confident.
The only decent striker we have at the moment is Aneke and he is never fit to play Ahadme is useless, Godden past his best and Leaburn terribly out of form
Imo, we would have a difficult time if we came up against him and MK Dons right now. Sometimes it's more to do with the club itself than the level of football.
Elliot Lee for instance dropped down and is now back in this league, above us, has also picked up more man of the match awards and goals than all of our midfielders combined.
He was absolutely naff for us, but obviously something clicks for him there. It doesn't always work that way, cause Charlie Kirk is the opposite example of Lee, but I do believe some players just move to us at the wrong time and Gilbey might have been one of them. Looking like there is a chance we
It is odd, I think we may actually be cursed.
Didn't Barry Fry wee on all 4 corner flats at one club to remove a gipsy curse?
Comments
he’s a complete donkey mate crosses or no crosses
Would be interested to know what you have seen in his game. I like his work ethic which can't be questioned so have no problem with him but I just don't see a player and struggle to understand his key strengths. We need a lot better to get out of this division.
Look at his goals from last season -
Just my opinion but a club with our resources should be signing more technically able strikers, and not relying on the likes of Stockley & Gassan.
Elliot Lee for instance dropped down and is now back in this league, above us, has also picked up more man of the match awards and goals than all of our midfielders combined.
He was absolutely naff for us, but obviously something clicks for him there. It doesn't always work that way, cause Charlie Kirk is the opposite example of Lee, but I do believe some players just move to us at the wrong time and Gilbey might have been one of them. Looking like there is a chance we will find out next season the answer to this question anyway, oh joy.
I do not need to look at a youtube video of literally seconds of him playing for another club last season.
I've watched him play 15 full matches for us this season and the real life evidence before our eyes is far more plentiful and far more relevant than some youtube snippets. I could produce a video of a few highlights from my amateur football career which would show me to look fairly tasty.
Playing to his strengths or not, the guy is right up towards the top of a competitive list of the worst strikers to play for the club.
Maybe more to come when he's used right. Could be the next Steve White
Here, Jones gets praised for it because it worked out.
Ultimately it doesn’t matter what formation, what players, how often you rotate and tinker - as long as you win games then fans will praise you for things they would otherwise find fault in.
I’m afraid Jones isn’t winning enough and understand the calls for him to go.
Completely agree with this. Have to start looking at ourselves as a club to why a large majority of players don't work here. It obviously falls under not recruiting the right players but there's a much deeper issue there as well.
How many signings in the last 4/5 years have looked brilliant on paper and turned out to be poor/ineffective. Kirk, MacGillvray, Fraser, Jaiyesimi, Payne and Greg Docherty spring straight to mind. Reckon you could put a list of over 20 players in this category.
Then you have your players like Alex Gilbey and Elliott Lee who were playing well before and after us.
Then even injury wise. We saw about half hour of Panutche Camara last season, he's played 21 in all comps for Crawley already this season! I know he was only there for 6 months but believe Chuks' injury record at Birmingham was decent as well.
I may be a saddo but I watch A LOT of football and have seen plenty of games including the likes of Docherty, Ahadme for example.
I’ve not previously seen either of those two perform as poorly as they have in a Charlton shirt so far. Docherty looks lost being asked to do a job he’s not suited to & Ahadme is there to nod in crosses that our midfielders aren’t capable of swinging in.
It might be some in house stuff, maybe behind the scenes there are some issues, who knows.
I can't put it down to the expectations, because respectfully, our ground is too big for us, and there can't be much pressure playing at a half empty Valley every week. I don't think we are a fan base who will wait outside the game in our numbers after a poor game like some fan bases.
I'd love to see a documentary type series around our club. Behind the scenes, the dressing room vibe etc. If you think how well JiMMy 85 does with his BoA docu series, and had that at Charlton, it would make for excellent TV.
I've read on here that our season is over enough times in the last few weeks, so what expectation is there in changing manager with play offs out of reach. I don't like what I'm seeing, but I think we should back him unless relegation is looming large, which it isn't....... yet!
L2 is a funny league. It wasn't long ago that Lapslie scored a few and there were calls to bring him back.
Most players who were crap for us have gone on to be crap elsewhere. Some can't even find a club. It's not a curse problem, it's got to be recruitment.
At the other end of the table, watching Tranmere Rovers appears to have all the festive cheer of a trip to the dentist with Nigel Adkins overseeing five defeats from seven games as Harrogate Town visit Prenton Park.
But yes, we are 100% cursed, particularly so over the last 5 years.
Why do smaller clubs look more comfortable on the ball and more creative than us? There was even a moment in the Orient game when Pratley drifted on to the right wing, from what I remember he just kept possession.
Our tactics are so direct and rigid. Lloyd Jones talked about them being braver on the ball and not playing route one - the manager needs to drive that message, but he seems to push the opposite of avoiding risks so far that these players look worse on the ball than they actually are.
While I agree this squad can’t play pretty football, we don’t need them to, we need them to play more football than the pure defensive hoofball Jones sticks to.
They certainly don't appear to be relaxed and confident.
Ahadme is useless, Godden past his best and Leaburn terribly out of form
That could well have been Birmingham.