Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

I think that I've had enough

13

Comments

  • edited September 29
    I also find it interesting that almost everyone was desperate for the “fundamentalist” approach before Jones got here. Lots of people saying the head coach / director of football set up was nonsense etc.

    Presumably because they thought giving one bloke all the power, he’d manage like a fan and would do everything to keep their favourite players at the club.

    They didn’t anticipate that he would see things differently to them. And now it’s supposedly a problem.
  • thenewbie said:
    Bad run of form at the minute but don’t for a minute believe that this is worse than the nonsense we put up with through December, January and February last season.
    That should not be the bar we're looking to clear though.
    No but good things usually take time. Especially when there’s a big repair job that needs to happen.

    I’m pissed off and frustrated too but we’ve already tried going through manager after manager hoping for a quick fix.

    I’m clinging on to the fact that we’re at the early stages of the healing process. Giving up now would be like giving up on a diet because you’ve only lost two pounds in the first month.

    This our 5th year consecutive in the 3rd division after the worst finish in our history.
    Have you read any of my posts today? I’m fucking fed up with it too.

    But sometimes, for things to get better, you have to take your medicine. I’d love for it to be an instant turn around but surely a dose of realism would suggest we don’t go to promotion front runners immediately after three properly shit seasons in a row.


     
    (And even the years we got promoted we lost at the likes of Fleetwood, Scunthorpe, Rochdale and Stevenage away from home. The year any team does go up will have a couple of those losses - unless you’re Birmingham and can spend £20 million on a player in the third division. Then you might last a season without at least a couple of annoying losses…)
    You are right there, @Callumcafc, and actually Methven and Gavin Carter have both said something like that. What's more, a successful manager needs lieutenants on the pitch he can trust, especially if the team he inherited was a bit flaky and spineless. And we cannot blame the Dobbo thing on Jones, it seems clear Jones would have kept him, and we presumably would not then have brought in one of Docherty or Campbell.

    But I said several times, deciding that you don't actually want Alfie May is a big, big call. It already looked ominous in spring when Jones started messing with him. To what end? Curbs didn't get it, and that's always a big warning signal for me. If it doesn't make sense to Curbs, it probably is a bad idea. Curbs is no ex-player gobshite on MOTD. 

    Now I'm pretty weak on the tactical side of the game and I admire your data-driven study of it. But I did say after the early results that I get what NJ is doing at the back, but I could not quite see the Plan for the forward half of the game. Now, virtually everyone on here is saying the same thing. 

    In management in any sphere, "fundamentalists" worry me. Once you've got to the top of elite football, maybe you can afford to be. But not in L1. I said several times, deciding you don't want the Golden Boot winner because he allegedly refuses to play a certain way, that is a fucking big call. I think at this level a Board says to a new manager (unless they are Birmingham) look, great strikers are rare as hen's teeth and expensive like hell so you'll need to build your attack around Alfie May. But NJ clearly said to our board, my way or the highway.

    So here's my question to you Callum:  I've asked it several times, including to @Swisdom, so far without reply. What exactly is the way NJ wants to play, and why is May unsuitable for it? Why would May not have been a much more effective choice than Godden in yesterday's line up? What was it that May wouldn't or couldn't do for NJ. See, I hear all this talk about the "high press" but Alfie May did a lot of work up front hassling and pressing defenders and chasing apparently lost balls in the channels. What more is there to this fucking "high press" than that, if the main role of a striker is to be in the right position to convert opportunities?
    Jones likes big physical strikers - I would not be surprised if, once Miles is healthy, his favoured pairing is Leaburn and Ahadme.

    I agree with you on comparing Godden yesterday to May - both would’ve been ineffective and got no change out of the Stevenage defence.

    Jones got fed up with May because Alfie did whatever he wanted in whatever way Alfie thought was best, he didn’t play to the manager’s game plan. Pressing is more than just running around and following the ball, you have to be clever about angles and blocking passing angles and if you’re not doing it properly you make yourself easy to bypass.

    A lot of the defensive improvements are owed not to just the defensive reinforcements (Mitchell, Mannion) but also to a more disciplined forward line who press with a plan.


    We have our work cut out to create more - everyone can see it. We have the best manager at the club we’ve been able to attract in some time so we have to give him time to sort it out. 

    He already did it with the other end of the pitch so give him time with these players to work out the attacking patterns now that we have a solid base to work wit.
    But we don’t press, our players are not clever with angles and blocking and we can’t even pass to each other without giving the ball away.

    We hoof it up to Ahadme who is supposed to be the big physical striker in the hope he will do something with it which nine times out of ten he does nothing.

     I would love to see us pressing, wingbacks running at defenders, getting to the goal line and whipping in crosses, just like we were promised however our players are not capable. The best cross so far this season has come from Chucks for Goddens goal against Bolton 
  • I also find it interesting that almost everyone was desperate for the “fundamentalist” approach before Jones got here. Lots of people saying the head coach / director of football set up was nonsense etc.

    Presumably because they thought giving one bloke all the power, he’d manage like a fan and would do everything to keep their favourite players at the club.

    They didn’t anticipate that he would see things differently to them. And now it’s supposedly a problem.
    Think you are  bending the narrative here to suit your own fantasy.
  • edited September 29
    I also find it interesting that almost everyone was desperate for the “fundamentalist” approach before Jones got here. Lots of people saying the head coach / director of football set up was nonsense etc.

    Presumably because they thought giving one bloke all the power, he’d manage like a fan and would do everything to keep their favourite players at the club.

    They didn’t anticipate that he would see things differently to them. And now it’s supposedly a problem.
    Think you are  bending the narrative here to suit your own fantasy.
    Not sure that’s true. Lots of people were bemoaning the idea that someone was signing players for the coach to work with. Now we have a manager and people aren’t happy with the players he’s signed. Now, you can say that that means our recruitment is consistently poor but with this system we’re in trouble if Jones isn’t here next season for whatever reason. He’s signed players he knows who have signed to play for him, they’re might not react so well to playing for someone else 
  • thenewbie said:
    Bad run of form at the minute but don’t for a minute believe that this is worse than the nonsense we put up with through December, January and February last season.
    That should not be the bar we're looking to clear though.
    No but good things usually take time. Especially when there’s a big repair job that needs to happen.

    I’m pissed off and frustrated too but we’ve already tried going through manager after manager hoping for a quick fix.

    I’m clinging on to the fact that we’re at the early stages of the healing process. Giving up now would be like giving up on a diet because you’ve only lost two pounds in the first month.

    This our 5th year consecutive in the 3rd division after the worst finish in our history.
    Have you read any of my posts today? I’m fucking fed up with it too.

    But sometimes, for things to get better, you have to take your medicine. I’d love for it to be an instant turn around but surely a dose of realism would suggest we don’t go to promotion front runners immediately after three properly shit seasons in a row.


     
    (And even the years we got promoted we lost at the likes of Fleetwood, Scunthorpe, Rochdale and Stevenage away from home. The year any team does go up will have a couple of those losses - unless you’re Birmingham and can spend £20 million on a player in the third division. Then you might last a season without at least a couple of annoying losses…)
    You are right there, @Callumcafc, and actually Methven and Gavin Carter have both said something like that. What's more, a successful manager needs lieutenants on the pitch he can trust, especially if the team he inherited was a bit flaky and spineless. And we cannot blame the Dobbo thing on Jones, it seems clear Jones would have kept him, and we presumably would not then have brought in one of Docherty or Campbell.

    But I said several times, deciding that you don't actually want Alfie May is a big, big call. It already looked ominous in spring when Jones started messing with him. To what end? Curbs didn't get it, and that's always a big warning signal for me. If it doesn't make sense to Curbs, it probably is a bad idea. Curbs is no ex-player gobshite on MOTD. 

    Now I'm pretty weak on the tactical side of the game and I admire your data-driven study of it. But I did say after the early results that I get what NJ is doing at the back, but I could not quite see the Plan for the forward half of the game. Now, virtually everyone on here is saying the same thing. 

    In management in any sphere, "fundamentalists" worry me. Once you've got to the top of elite football, maybe you can afford to be. But not in L1. I said several times, deciding you don't want the Golden Boot winner because he allegedly refuses to play a certain way, that is a fucking big call. I think at this level a Board says to a new manager (unless they are Birmingham) look, great strikers are rare as hen's teeth and expensive like hell so you'll need to build your attack around Alfie May. But NJ clearly said to our board, my way or the highway.

    So here's my question to you Callum:  I've asked it several times, including to @Swisdom, so far without reply. What exactly is the way NJ wants to play, and why is May unsuitable for it? Why would May not have been a much more effective choice than Godden in yesterday's line up? What was it that May wouldn't or couldn't do for NJ. See, I hear all this talk about the "high press" but Alfie May did a lot of work up front hassling and pressing defenders and chasing apparently lost balls in the channels. What more is there to this fucking "high press" than that, if the main role of a striker is to be in the right position to convert opportunities?
    Jones likes big physical strikers - I would not be surprised if, once Miles is healthy, his favoured pairing is Leaburn and Ahadme.

    I agree with you on comparing Godden yesterday to May - both would’ve been ineffective and got no change out of the Stevenage defence.

    Jones got fed up with May because Alfie did whatever he wanted in whatever way Alfie thought was best, he didn’t play to the manager’s game plan. Pressing is more than just running around and following the ball, you have to be clever about angles and blocking passing angles and if you’re not doing it properly you make yourself easy to bypass.

    A lot of the defensive improvements are owed not to just the defensive reinforcements (Mitchell, Mannion) but also to a more disciplined forward line who press with a plan.


    We have our work cut out to create more - everyone can see it. We have the best manager at the club we’ve been able to attract in some time so we have to give him time to sort it out. 

    He already did it with the other end of the pitch so give him time with these players to work out the attacking patterns now that we have a solid base to work wit.
    But we don’t press, our players are not clever with angles and blocking and we can’t even pass to each other without giving the ball away.

    We hoof it up to Ahadme who is supposed to be the big physical striker in the hope he will do something with it which nine times out of ten he does nothing.

     I would love to see us pressing, wingbacks running at defenders, getting to the goal line and whipping in crosses, just like we were promised however our players are not capable. The best cross so far this season has come from Chucks for Goddens goal against Bolton 
    We do press. What was Docherty’s goal against Bolton if not the result of a press?
  • Sponsored links:


  • fenaddick said:
    I also find it interesting that almost everyone was desperate for the “fundamentalist” approach before Jones got here. Lots of people saying the head coach / director of football set up was nonsense etc.

    Presumably because they thought giving one bloke all the power, he’d manage like a fan and would do everything to keep their favourite players at the club.

    They didn’t anticipate that he would see things differently to them. And now it’s supposedly a problem.
    Think you are  bending the narrative here to suit your own fantasy.
    Not sure that’s true. Lots of people were bemoaning the idea that someone was signing players for the coach to work with. Now we have a manager and people aren’t happy with the players he’s signed. Now, you can say that that means our recruitment is consistently poor but with this system we’re in trouble if Jones isn’t here next season for whatever reason. He’s signed players he knows who have signed to play for him, they’re might not react so well to playing for someone else 
    I actually agree with your assessment here, my problem was that the OP was taking the opportunity for a cheap dig at other posters 
  • I also find it interesting that almost everyone was desperate for the “fundamentalist” approach before Jones got here. Lots of people saying the head coach / director of football set up was nonsense etc.

    Presumably because they thought giving one bloke all the power, he’d manage like a fan and would do everything to keep their favourite players at the club.

    They didn’t anticipate that he would see things differently to them. And now it’s supposedly a problem.
    Think you are  bending the narrative here to suit your own fantasy.
    I would love to hear your take on it and why I’m wrong.
  • edited September 29
    fenaddick said:
    I also find it interesting that almost everyone was desperate for the “fundamentalist” approach before Jones got here. Lots of people saying the head coach / director of football set up was nonsense etc.

    Presumably because they thought giving one bloke all the power, he’d manage like a fan and would do everything to keep their favourite players at the club.

    They didn’t anticipate that he would see things differently to them. And now it’s supposedly a problem.
    Think you are  bending the narrative here to suit your own fantasy.
    Not sure that’s true. Lots of people were bemoaning the idea that someone was signing players for the coach to work with. Now we have a manager and people aren’t happy with the players he’s signed. Now, you can say that that means our recruitment is consistently poor but with this system we’re in trouble if Jones isn’t here next season for whatever reason. He’s signed players he knows who have signed to play for him, they’re might not react so well to playing for someone else 
    I actually agree with your assessment here, my problem was that the OP was taking the opportunity for a cheap dig at other posters 
    I’m tired of the cheap digs thrown my way too.

    I warned people months ago that this might be exactly what happens if we gave all the power to make recruitment decisions to the manager but I was told I didn’t know what I was talking about.

    Yes I’m going to bring it back up when people start complaining of exactly what I warned about.


    FWIW I don’t agree with the sentiment and don’t believe we’re actually in trouble… I reckon we’ll turn the corner on this bad run of 1 win in 4 relatively quickly.
  • fenaddick said:
    I also find it interesting that almost everyone was desperate for the “fundamentalist” approach before Jones got here. Lots of people saying the head coach / director of football set up was nonsense etc.

    Presumably because they thought giving one bloke all the power, he’d manage like a fan and would do everything to keep their favourite players at the club.

    They didn’t anticipate that he would see things differently to them. And now it’s supposedly a problem.
    Think you are  bending the narrative here to suit your own fantasy.
    Not sure that’s true. Lots of people were bemoaning the idea that someone was signing players for the coach to work with. Now we have a manager and people aren’t happy with the players he’s signed. Now, you can say that that means our recruitment is consistently poor but with this system we’re in trouble if Jones isn’t here next season for whatever reason. He’s signed players he knows who have signed to play for him, they’re might not react so well to playing for someone else 
    You mean they could get even worse ???  :o  Surely not.
  • Shouldn’t have renewed my Charlton TV account….firstly the loss of the Minto, Curbs etc show was a blow and the sale of Alfie May made me question it but the dross served up the last couple of games has me thinking I need a break…..the game is rotten with the prem clubs in a different stratosphere which we will never achieve during the rest of my lifetime…playing at these shitty stadiums and being beaten by these teams is an embarrassment. Think these Yank owners will walk away after a couple of years of throwing money at the project without any payback……
  • edited September 30
    I think it can still be turned round. We started the season being dour but hard to beat. A bit of tweaking trying to find more of a balance at both ends of the pitch has backfired. With hindsight, it was a mistake. But I think even before that, it was a real risk and I'm sure Jones was aware of it, that we needed to get the first goal to win a game. That was probably not going to take us up. So it is understandabe he has tinkered with things.

    The issue remains that if we revert to the approach we strated the season with we still will have games like Reading, Stevenage and indeed Wigan which wasn't any different apart from us scoring a scrappy goal and them missing a great chance. Had Aneke put away what I maintain should have been an easy chance for a professional footballer, a firm pass with the inside of the foot into a reasonably large open area, there is no way we would have had 10 up for a corner and got caught on the break.

    So how can it be turned around? Well we need to do something we haven't done for a few seasons and not be too far away in January. Sorry to repeat, but had Aneke showed a modicum of composure on Saturday, we would be sitting in third place. Small magins. He does this and remains one of our strikers who can affect a game. There is a lot on Leaburn's shoulders in terms of turning it around. We have strikers as it stands, some may improve, but as it stands who are too easy to defend against. So we can do some nice approach play but it always falls down when we get to the business end of things. 

    Leaburn isn't easy to defend against and has the potential to open up the game for others as he has the game to bring a partner into things where this season our strikers have been terribly isolated. We won't know until we see it but Dixon seems to have pace. This is league one, it is entirely possible these two will make a big difference. Personally, I don't think Jones can afford to wait to bring these players into the squad. He has shown he is not afraid to take punts and make changes, well this is a no brainer that may or may not work, but is a no brainer all the same. 

    Bristol Rovers away is probably a better game to introduce them. They will probably be a bit more open than Stevenage in trying to beat us so there should be space to get amongst and behind them. I think Small needs to start too instead of Edwards. He hasn't been great but he does beat players and try to get to the line. Birmingham is probably going to be tougher and we ought to set up defensively and hope something falls our way so maybe not the ideal introduction for the pair.
  • edited September 30
    Foundations are never pretty to look at, they are strong, sturdy and built to last. 80% of last years clean sheet total achieved already, can get on board with that! 
    It’s a process, we’ll add in Jan and ideally be in and around it when we get there. Enjoy the journey, which in football, is by rollercoaster 99% of the time!
  • edited September 30
    Echo lots of the above comments. It's out of old faith and catching up with mates that makes me go to every home and a few away games from where I live nr Basingstoke.

    If I am working or like Saturday out for the day I can't be arsed to look at the score until I am home. 

    On Saturday when I got the results up, I covered our score till I saw Stevenages. When I saw they had 1 I knew it would be 0 and not 2 or 3.

    That's how they've driven me too now. 
  • The problem is that Jones methods and results seem pretty binary at the moment. When they work you get a 1-0 win, when you don't or you go behind its a 1-0 loss.

    The style of play doesn't give you the sense that we've actually played well even when we win, it's through effort and percentages not quality. It's very hard to be enthusiastic. So when things do go wrong it's only natural that people are less than impressed.

    Jones himself doesn't help when he is happy to go waving to the crowd when we win but fuck off straight down the tunnel if not. Seems a bit disingenuous even if I don't think it's supposed to be.
  • Ah, Division One football—a realm where dreams are born, hopes are dashed, and fans are left questioning their life choices. For the past few years, I have clung to the belief that this season would be the season. You know the one - the year we finally break through and show the world what we are made of!

    Following Charlton has been akin to riding a rollercoaster designed by someone who has never actually ridden one. Being a fan of Charlton is like investing in a black hole—no matter how much energy you put in, you get little back. Those hours spent watching games could have been used for productive activities like learning to juggle or building lego models of the Valley.

    In my younger years, I would eagerly await the post-match interviews. Now, they’ve become predictable to the point where I’ve invented a drinking game. Every time Nathan says “we were unlucky,” “we’ll learn from this,” or “the lads gave it 110%,” I take a shot. Within 10 minutes, I’m either fast asleep on the settee or looking for a support group.

    There comes a time in every fan’s life when we realise that supporting a struggling team offers diminishing returns. My optimism-to-disappointment ratio is now so skewed that even a win feels like a fluke, and a draw is cause for celebration. At this point, I’ve convinced myself that watching paint dry might provide more excitement—and a more favourable outcome.


     ;)  ;);)




  • Sponsored links:


  • To win ugly for CAFC is acceptable even if it's a hard watch: Wigan, Orient and Shrewsbury.

    Bolton was a controlled win against our nemesis at the valley and a positive response by the majority of fans and critics. 

    To lose ugly for CAFC against Reading, Blackpool and Stevenage is totally unacceptable and this was always going to be the problem on days we don't keep a clean sheet as we shoot blanks so often with the way we play.
  • thenewbie said:
    Bad run of form at the minute but don’t for a minute believe that this is worse than the nonsense we put up with through December, January and February last season.
    That should not be the bar we're looking to clear though.
    No but good things usually take time. Especially when there’s a big repair job that needs to happen.

    I’m pissed off and frustrated too but we’ve already tried going through manager after manager hoping for a quick fix.

    I’m clinging on to the fact that we’re at the early stages of the healing process. Giving up now would be like giving up on a diet because you’ve only lost two pounds in the first month.
    Are you a Starmer fan as well?
  • Saturday was v poor, with other bits and pieces going on i dont go as much as i used to but still have a good day out with mates which is what really counts, ground ticked off and bar it being an important game wont be back, seems as others have said that no one really supports them and just goes for a day out. 

    will do wrexham at home and pick and choose a couple of others. 
  • i think a lot of people i know since covid have cut down on it personally. 
  • Glad I persisted with 'just one more time!' ;)
  • Southbank said:
    thenewbie said:
    Bad run of form at the minute but don’t for a minute believe that this is worse than the nonsense we put up with through December, January and February last season.
    That should not be the bar we're looking to clear though.
    No but good things usually take time. Especially when there’s a big repair job that needs to happen.

    I’m pissed off and frustrated too but we’ve already tried going through manager after manager hoping for a quick fix.

    I’m clinging on to the fact that we’re at the early stages of the healing process. Giving up now would be like giving up on a diet because you’ve only lost two pounds in the first month.
    Are you a Starmer fan as well?
    Oh no you’ve just made the PMs argument for him, must sting
  • I am also glad I kept the faith.I confess I had told myself that despite having bought a season ticket It would be my last game if (when)they lost.now I am looking forward to the next game.Charlton is a worse adduction than heroin
  • Nearly talked myself out of this as I have a few jobs to do around the house. But my son said “come on you never know!”
    And I am so glad I went, but this club does my head!! 
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!