Louis should reach out to fellow journo Rod Liddle. This is a tailor made story for the Sunday Times…state of the railways etc and a mention of Charlton Athletic as well
Sorry to read of your unwanted experience, @LouisMend. Unfortunately, it is nothing new.
Your story brought back memories of a similar experience I had in the (pre-mobile phone)1980s with Virgin Cross Country, making a work-related journey from Reading, via Birmingham & Manchester, to my then home in Derbyshire. For no obvious reason (weather fine, no strikes) the whole rail system was in chaos that afternoon/evening. Very long & stressful story cut short, my journey similarly ended with a taxi (at Virgin's expense) from Manchester, arriving home in the small hours.
I subsequently moved to Reading, but still had family in the North West, so had many other opportunities to experience the dubious joys & overcrowding of the Cross Country service - suffice it to say that as soon as I passed my driving test and could afford to buy & run a car, the trains lost my custom for long distance journeys.
So @LouisMend, I guess you might console yourself with the thought that it might have been a lot worse if you had been making the same journey last year, before Avanti made their improvements!! No? I don't blame you!
Also I've got to come out in defence of @golfaddick here, I thought he was taking the piss and having a laugh.
Bad experiences are where you are able to judge the actual operational effectiveness of lots of things. So many people had horror stories of getting back from Accrington last season and the lack of an actual continuity plan by rail operators is enough to make me go "no, fuck that". Its one thing getting stuck after the last train home in London but another entirely to get stuck in the east Midlands reliant on a service being sold to us as the future but in reality is like rolling a dice. At least if I drive my destiny is mostly in my hands
Also I've got to come out in defence of @golfaddick here, I thought he was taking the piss and having a laugh.
Bad experiences are where you are able to judge the actual operational effectiveness of lots of things. So many people had horror stories of getting back from Accrington last season and the lack of an actual continuity plan by rail operators is enough to make me go "no, fuck that". Its one thing getting stuck after the last train home in London but another entirely to get stuck in the east Midlands reliant on a service being sold to us as the future but in reality is like rolling a dice. At least if I drive my destiny is mostly in my hands
Yep obvious joke.
Anyway it’s the weirdos who get coaches we should he laughing at
We often used trains for weekends away in the past and whilst I’d rather them to driving on a long trip, we always take the car now. Won’t book tickets in advance as you just can’t rely on them to not be on strike, not running or using rail replacements.
On this thread people ask, "why do we put up with it?" "it" being the state of the railways, and I was thinking about that. I don't know the answer but I can at least see why nothing substantive gets done about it. Tell me what you think.
When I first got the vote, getting on 50 years ago and tried to think very seriously how I should use this important right, I told myself that a party's transport policies would be a big factor in my decision. To this day I have never met a single British person who told me that they take a similar approach. In the run-up to general elections, opinion polls ask people what are the most important issues to vote on. Transport never, ever features even in the top 5. YouGov runs one of its own publicity- generating regular tracker polls by asking a single question about support for HS2. Take a look. It's been in negative territory almost since it started. If you're a politician (of any colour) needing to save money, it's a tempting target. Hilariously, once Sunak took the axe to the Manchester section, support for HS2 on the tracker shot up. I think this particular phenomenon is down to a total communication failure about why HS2 is really needed and how it will benefit communities hundreds of miles from the line; and belatedly, when Sunak's plans came to light, proper experts finally got on the airwaves to explain why we need it, hence the tracker bounce. But that in turn leads to another thing. It's seen as a bit weird and geeky to be interested in railways in any way. Living on the Continent, I discovered that this is an exclusively British thing. Few are more proud of their car than the average German. But he is also very proud of his railways. He expects them to run on time. Now they are not and he is furious, and guess what, it's a hot political topic. The Italian is seen as a car lover too, and their railways were a joke back in 80s. Have you seen them now? They have a high speed network with beautiful trains that are the rail-borne version of a Maserati.
And the weirdest thing? We invented the railway. Here in Czechia they know that. The current top speed on Czech railways is only 100mph. (that's why there are plans for a new HS network, and I have a gig advising people at their equiv of Network Rail how to avoid the comms mistakes of HS2). Their rail fraternity knows that one of our steam locos did 126 mph in the 1930's and that thanks to our HST trains we had regular InterCity services doing 125 mph all over the country since the year Derek Hales first donned a Charlton shirt. OK they don't actually know who Derek Hales is but they know that in speed terms nothing has improved since Killer's day except on a short 70 mile stretch of track where a hugely expensive French -owned train runs on a line which is entirely private and separate to the rest of the network and which sends dividends to South Korean pensioners.
So after you've considered this rant, I'm genuinely interested to know: why do you think we put up with it?
On this thread people ask, "why do we put up with it?" "it" being the state of the railways, and I was thinking about that. I don't know the answer but I can at least see why nothing substantive gets done about it. Tell me what you think.
When I first got the vote, getting on 50 years ago and tried to think very seriously how I should use this important right, I told myself that a party's transport policies would be a big factor in my decision. To this day I have never met a single British person who told me that they take a similar approach. In the run-up to general elections, opinion polls ask people what are the most important issues to vote on. Transport never, ever features even in the top 5. YouGov runs one of its own publicity- generating regular tracker polls by asking a single question about support for HS2. Take a look. It's been in negative territory almost since it started. If you're a politician (of any colour) needing to save money, it's a tempting target. Hilariously, once Sunak took the axe to the Manchester section, support for HS2 on the tracker shot up. I think this particular phenomenon is down to a total communication failure about why HS2 is really needed and how it will benefit communities hundreds of miles from the line; and belatedly, when Sunak's plans came to light, proper experts finally got on the airwaves to explain why we need it, hence the tracker bounce. But that in turn leads to another thing. It's seen as a bit weird and geeky to be interested in railways in any way. Living on the Continent, I discovered that this is an exclusively British thing. Few are more proud of their car than the average German. But he is also very proud of his railways. He expects them to run on time. Now they are not and he is furious, and guess what, it's a hot political topic. The Italian is seen as a car lover too, and their railways were a joke back in 80s. Have you seen them now? They have a high speed network with beautiful trains that are the rail-borne version of a Maserati.
And the weirdest thing? We invented the railway. Here in Czechia they know that. The current top speed on Czech railways is only 100mph. (that's why there are plans for a new HS network, and I have a gig advising people at their equiv of Network Rail how to avoid the comms mistakes of HS2). Their rail fraternity knows that one of our steam locos did 126 mph in the 1930's and that thanks to our HST trains we had regular InterCity services doing 125 mph all over the country since the year Derek Hales first donned a Charlton shirt. OK they don't actually know who Derek Hales is but they know that in speed terms nothing has improved since Killer's day except on a short 70 mile stretch of track where a hugely expensive French -owned train runs on a line which is entirely private and separate to the rest of the network and which sends dividends to South Korean pensioners.
So after you've considered this rant, I'm genuinely interested to know: why do you think we put up with it?
I think you could ask the same questions about many aspects of UK society tbf though Prague. The energy companies have been absolutely taking the pee of out us for years and years - something like second highest prices in the world I think? The French would have raised EDF to the ground if treated remotely as disgracefully as the average Brit who just sucks up and turns on Love Island.
Our rail transport system is an expensive joke as you've said, and our roads are a mess too. The water companies are literally driving shit around the country to dump it into our rivers. Not a chance the Germans or the Scandi's would swallow their children frolicking about on the beach amongst the various richards and sanitary products we tolerate. None.
We could go on and on and on, because, let's face it, the country is broken in pretty much every respect.
Our expectations of what to expect from one of the richest, most advanced countries on the planet have been reduced to dust by the politicians and their client press to the point none of us are shocked people are doing their own dentistry and Victorian era diseases are making a comeback in 2024. Wtf?
And for all of us that can see what's been going on in front of us, are unhappy about it and want political change, there's others that either don't see it, don't want to see it or seek to excuse and downplay it.
Presumably because they support the Tories who are largely responsible for the state of the UK infrastructure and public services, one way or another. There. I've said it...
Also I've got to come out in defence of @golfaddick here, I thought he was taking the piss and having a laugh.
Bad experiences are where you are able to judge the actual operational effectiveness of lots of things. So many people had horror stories of getting back from Accrington last season and the lack of an actual continuity plan by rail operators is enough to make me go "no, fuck that". Its one thing getting stuck after the last train home in London but another entirely to get stuck in the east Midlands reliant on a service being sold to us as the future but in reality is like rolling a dice. At least if I drive my destiny is mostly in my hands
For me going to Charlton has always been a day out with (or without!) the family.
But sitting in a car for 4 - 10 hours is not a day out for me so I simply do not go regularly to games (home or away) if there is no reasonable train service.
I realise that others will not go if they cannot park within a few minutes of the ground. I was like that when I first got my car.
Others seem to enjoy a day out on a coach with like minded people - although I have never really got that.
I'm sure there are even people who wouldn't bother if they couldn't walk to the ground and be home by ten past five. I first started going to Charlton because I lived half a mile from Selhurst Park and it seemed natural to pop out on a dull Saturday afternoon for an hour or two to watch some footy even if I didn't really know who was playing!
Any business needs all these options (and probably more) to be available if it is going to thrive. So the least the club and its supporters can do is try to help each with these issues other rather than bickering about it!
Also I've got to come out in defence of @golfaddick here, I thought he was taking the piss and having a laugh.
Bad experiences are where you are able to judge the actual operational effectiveness of lots of things. So many people had horror stories of getting back from Accrington last season and the lack of an actual continuity plan by rail operators is enough to make me go "no, fuck that". Its one thing getting stuck after the last train home in London but another entirely to get stuck in the east Midlands reliant on a service being sold to us as the future but in reality is like rolling a dice. At least if I drive my destiny is mostly in my hands
For me going to Charlton has always been a day out with (or without!) the family.
But sitting in a car for 4 - 10 hours is not a day out for me so I simply do not go regularly to games (home or away) if there is no reasonable train service.
I realise that others will not go if they cannot park within a few minutes of the ground. I was like that when I first got my car.
Others seem to enjoy a day out on a coach with like minded people - although I have never really got that.
I'm sure there are even people who wouldn't bother if they couldn't walk to the ground and be home by ten past five. I first started going to Charlton because I lived half a mile from Selhurst Park and it seemed natural to pop out on a dull Saturday afternoon for an hour or two to watch some footy even if I didn't really know who was playing!
Any business needs all these options (and probably more) to be available if it is going to thrive. So the least the club and its supporters can do is try to help each with these issues other rather than bickering about it!
I completely agree, and taking everything at fave value. If there is a half decent turnout of my friends going I always want to get the train and I banged on about this particularly when shitarse was around that network rail and Greenwich Council were doing more to reduce attendances than us boycotting and the twunt who owned us. Driving is a choice forced on me due to the trains being shit, I'd always rather get on a train, have a beer, chat to my mates, listen to stuff on headphones or even have a kip than drive but its so unreliable and any time I get a sniff of the words replacement and bus service I'm out
Not from £0 to £600. And it is overtime. I don’t get it. Why doesn’t the company look at how many regular hours drivers get paid for, and then sort out how many trains you can run according to those regular working hours? If overtime is vital to run the service is it really overtime, or is it simply the time necessary? Therefore you have to employ enough workers on regular hours to run the service. I don’t believe access to overtime work is an entitlement in an employment contract, is it? I always thought doing some overtime if the opportunity arose, like covering for sickness, was a kind of bonus opportunity. The basic pay ought to be enough so regular staff don’t feel compelled to work extra.
Fcuking hell, I was (7 years ago) a senior project manager, running projects with budgets of millions and onbording billions of assets and my daily rate was good at the time but stress and agro was huge and they get this for sitting on their arse ....
Comments
Your story brought back memories of a similar experience I had in the (pre-mobile phone)1980s with Virgin Cross Country, making a work-related journey from Reading, via Birmingham & Manchester, to my then home in Derbyshire.
For no obvious reason (weather fine, no strikes) the whole rail system was in chaos that afternoon/evening. Very long & stressful story cut short, my journey similarly ended with a taxi (at Virgin's expense) from Manchester, arriving home in the small hours.
I subsequently moved to Reading, but still had family in the North West, so had many other opportunities to experience the dubious joys & overcrowding of the Cross Country service - suffice it to say that as soon as I passed my driving test and could afford to buy & run a car, the trains lost my custom for long distance journeys.
As @clb74 observed above, Andy Burnham (Mayor of Manchester) has been complaining about Avanti to all & sundry for ages.
At one stage, it did look as though the government might remove their franchise, but instead they announced last September that Avanti had made "significant improvements for passengers", and awarded them a new long-term contract.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/avanti-west-coast-awarded-long-term-contract-after-significant-improvements-for-passengers#:~:text=Starting on 15 October 2023,point with 3 months' notice.
So @LouisMend, I guess you might console yourself with the thought that it might have been a lot worse if you had been making the same journey last year, before Avanti made their improvements!! No? I don't blame you!
Bad experiences are where you are able to judge the actual operational effectiveness of lots of things. So many people had horror stories of getting back from Accrington last season and the lack of an actual continuity plan by rail operators is enough to make me go "no, fuck that". Its one thing getting stuck after the last train home in London but another entirely to get stuck in the east Midlands reliant on a service being sold to us as the future but in reality is like rolling a dice. At least if I drive my destiny is mostly in my hands
When I first got the vote, getting on 50 years ago and tried to think very seriously how I should use this important right, I told myself that a party's transport policies would be a big factor in my decision. To this day I have never met a single British person who told me that they take a similar approach. In the run-up to general elections, opinion polls ask people what are the most important issues to vote on. Transport never, ever features even in the top 5. YouGov runs one of its own publicity- generating regular tracker polls by asking a single question about support for HS2. Take a look. It's been in negative territory almost since it started. If you're a politician (of any colour) needing to save money, it's a tempting target. Hilariously, once Sunak took the axe to the Manchester section, support for HS2 on the tracker shot up. I think this particular phenomenon is down to a total communication failure about why HS2 is really needed and how it will benefit communities hundreds of miles from the line; and belatedly, when Sunak's plans came to light, proper experts finally got on the airwaves to explain why we need it, hence the tracker bounce. But that in turn leads to another thing. It's seen as a bit weird and geeky to be interested in railways in any way. Living on the Continent, I discovered that this is an exclusively British thing. Few are more proud of their car than the average German. But he is also very proud of his railways. He expects them to run on time. Now they are not and he is furious, and guess what, it's a hot political topic. The Italian is seen as a car lover too, and their railways were a joke back in 80s. Have you seen them now? They have a high speed network with beautiful trains that are the rail-borne version of a Maserati.
And the weirdest thing? We invented the railway. Here in Czechia they know that. The current top speed on Czech railways is only 100mph. (that's why there are plans for a new HS network, and I have a gig advising people at their equiv of Network Rail how to avoid the comms mistakes of HS2). Their rail fraternity knows that one of our steam locos did 126 mph in the 1930's and that thanks to our HST trains we had regular InterCity services doing 125 mph all over the country since the year Derek Hales first donned a Charlton shirt. OK they don't actually know who Derek Hales is but they know that in speed terms nothing has improved since Killer's day except on a short 70 mile stretch of track where a hugely expensive French -owned train runs on a line which is entirely private and separate to the rest of the network and which sends dividends to South Korean pensioners.
So after you've considered this rant, I'm genuinely interested to know: why do you think we put up with it?
Our rail transport system is an expensive joke as you've said, and our roads are a mess too. The water companies are literally driving shit around the country to dump it into our rivers. Not a chance the Germans or the Scandi's would swallow their children frolicking about on the beach amongst the various richards and sanitary products we tolerate. None.
We could go on and on and on, because, let's face it, the country is broken in pretty much every respect.
Our expectations of what to expect from one of the richest, most advanced countries on the planet have been reduced to dust by the politicians and their client press to the point none of us are shocked people are doing their own dentistry and Victorian era diseases are making a comeback in 2024. Wtf?
And for all of us that can see what's been going on in front of us, are unhappy about it and want political change, there's others that either don't see it, don't want to see it or seek to excuse and downplay it.
Presumably because they support the Tories who are largely responsible for the state of the UK infrastructure and public services, one way or another. There. I've said it...
But sitting in a car for 4 - 10 hours is not a day out for me so I simply do not go regularly to games (home or away) if there is no reasonable train service.
I realise that others will not go if they cannot park within a few minutes of the ground. I was like that when I first got my car.
Others seem to enjoy a day out on a coach with like minded people - although I have never really got that.
I'm sure there are even people who wouldn't bother if they couldn't walk to the ground and be home by ten past five. I first started going to Charlton because I lived half a mile from Selhurst Park and it seemed natural to pop out on a dull Saturday afternoon for an hour or two to watch some footy even if I didn't really know who was playing!
Any business needs all these options (and probably more) to be available if it is going to thrive. So the least the club and its supporters can do is try to help each with these issues other rather than bickering about it!
Fully expecting to bump this thread on the 17th of march
Train drivers at Avanti West Coast will see their fee for an overtime shift increase to £600 following a deal between the company and union Aslef.
Avanti said it hoped offering more attractive terms to its drivers to work extra shifts would make its services "more reliable and resilient".-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68650114
And it is overtime.
I don’t get it.
Why doesn’t the company look at how many regular hours drivers get paid for, and then sort out how many trains you can run according to those regular working hours?
If overtime is vital to run the service is it really overtime, or is it simply the time necessary? Therefore you have to employ enough workers on regular hours to run the service.
I don’t believe access to overtime work is an entitlement in an employment contract, is it? I always thought doing some overtime if the opportunity arose, like covering for sickness, was a kind of bonus opportunity.
The basic pay ought to be enough so regular staff don’t feel compelled to work extra.