Sheffield Wednesday - players and staff paid late 2 months in a row (p7)

Henry Irving

Who'd buy a football club but not the stadium?

Gammon

Need the regulator to come in and really have some power and stop this continuing.

Whatever you think of a club and it's fans, (and you tend to always hear the loud minority of bell ends rather than the average fan) it's a shame that a long history and graft is being shut down by the constant stream of megalomaniacs.

Football is increasingly unaffordable and alienated from its roots and it's only strong fan groups that have any impact and even that is becoming harder to impact with money coming from abroad sources.

I think this is happening in every walk of life but the exaggerated and easily understandable consequences are so apparent in football.

I don't want to get too in politics but it's hard for this not to breach into this when, at least to me, football is just one big screen into modern issues we all face.

Sheffield Wednesday may not deserve to stay up to some of ya, but I least hope for that to be seen on the pitch, not off it.

ElfsborgAddick

ShootersHillGuru said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

@operationpig, I am assuming Chansiri is selling Hillsborough?

The guy is a nasty piece of work.

PS, were there any problems with the supporters when you had the wonderful Katrien Meire with you?

Obviously @operationpig will know more but quite why Chansiri would want to sell Hillsborough is unclear to me. I think the company that owns Hillsborough is owed at least some back rent and charges an awful lot of money, reported to be £2.5 million a year for Wednesday to play there. He’s got the club by the short and curlies and judging by his valuation of the football club he’s unlikely to sell Hillsborough for a reasonable price when he can get £2.5 million a year income. I see that as being one of the biggest hurdles any buyer of the football club has to navigate. This will become even more of an issue if the club is relegated and income drops although I suppose there could be relegation clause reducing the rent ? Guessing here but I would also imagine that the football club are saddled with stadium upkeep costs which are as we know are significant with The North Stand not safe to use. Chansiri obviously negotiated very lucrative terms for his Hillsborough owning Sheffield 3 company. 

I am sure he has also not paid the last two years rent on Hillsborough, surely for the money being asked it would include the ground?  If not, he is clearly playing games and has no intention of selling the club.

A nasty, dangerous man.

ShootersHillGuru

ElfsborgAddick said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

@operationpig, I am assuming Chansiri is selling Hillsborough?

The guy is a nasty piece of work.

PS, were there any problems with the supporters when you had the wonderful Katrien Meire with you?

Obviously @operationpig will know more but quite why Chansiri would want to sell Hillsborough is unclear to me. I think the company that owns Hillsborough is owed at least some back rent and charges an awful lot of money, reported to be £2.5 million a year for Wednesday to play there. He’s got the club by the short and curlies and judging by his valuation of the football club he’s unlikely to sell Hillsborough for a reasonable price when he can get £2.5 million a year income. I see that as being one of the biggest hurdles any buyer of the football club has to navigate. This will become even more of an issue if the club is relegated and income drops although I suppose there could be relegation clause reducing the rent ? Guessing here but I would also imagine that the football club are saddled with stadium upkeep costs which are as we know are significant with The North Stand not safe to use. Chansiri obviously negotiated very lucrative terms for his Hillsborough owning Sheffield 3 company. 

I am sure he has also not paid the last two years rent on Hillsborough, surely for the money being asked it would include the ground?  If not, he is clearly playing games and has no intention of selling the club.

A nasty, dangerous man.

I’ve also heard that two years back rent are owed. That’s a debt to the Sheffield 3 company and although he owns both the football club and Sheffield 3 the rent is a debt held by the football club. In reality the football club is worth pennies. He should be looking to get rid for a song but he’s not. Hillsborough is worth something but not anywhere near the £100 million he’s asking and I don’t even know if that figure includes the stadium.

Edit : chatGTP informs that the £100 million asking price does not include Hillsborough 

ElfsborgAddick

ShootersHillGuru said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

@operationpig, I am assuming Chansiri is selling Hillsborough?

The guy is a nasty piece of work.

PS, were there any problems with the supporters when you had the wonderful Katrien Meire with you?

Obviously @operationpig will know more but quite why Chansiri would want to sell Hillsborough is unclear to me. I think the company that owns Hillsborough is owed at least some back rent and charges an awful lot of money, reported to be £2.5 million a year for Wednesday to play there. He’s got the club by the short and curlies and judging by his valuation of the football club he’s unlikely to sell Hillsborough for a reasonable price when he can get £2.5 million a year income. I see that as being one of the biggest hurdles any buyer of the football club has to navigate. This will become even more of an issue if the club is relegated and income drops although I suppose there could be relegation clause reducing the rent ? Guessing here but I would also imagine that the football club are saddled with stadium upkeep costs which are as we know are significant with The North Stand not safe to use. Chansiri obviously negotiated very lucrative terms for his Hillsborough owning Sheffield 3 company. 

I am sure he has also not paid the last two years rent on Hillsborough, surely for the money being asked it would include the ground?  If not, he is clearly playing games and has no intention of selling the club.

A nasty, dangerous man.

I’ve also heard that two years back rent are owed. That’s a debt to the Sheffield 3 company and although he owns both the football club and Sheffield 3 the rent is a debt held by the football club. In reality the football club is worth pennies. He should be looking to get rid for a song but he’s not. Hillsborough is worth something but not anywhere near the £100 million he’s asking and I don’t even know if that figure includes the stadium.

Edit : chatGTP informs that the £100 million asking price does not include Hillsborough 

Should the money he want does not include the ground he will know he's not getting anywhere near this figure, he is playing a very dangerous game.

An absolute mystery what he is playing at, and why.  The club are teetering on the edge of disaster.

ForeverAddickted

Crazy how little coverage both Sheff Wed / Morecambe are getting from the Footballing world, whilst Sky Sports are more interested in Isak's behaviour, as he tries to push for a move to Liverpool.

At least they're not doing countdown clocks like they did for Bolton / Bury I suppose.

killerandflash

The reality is that every club in the Championship (and most in L1) loses money. Some small amounts, some eye watering amounts, and it all gets covered by the owners. Until they either run out of money or interest in the club.

And then, that's when it gets tricky, especially as few of them these days are "supporters made good", who will accept their losses and try and find decent buyers for the club. A random owner from the US, Thailand, Belgium or Turkey may not think like that, as we know from our own experience.

I would love to know what Roland really thought of ESI? Did he think they were genuinely wealthy owners, or did he just see them as a very convenient way of getting rid of the loss making club while holding on the the stadium and training ground, not caring what happened next? Indeed did he know Southall was dodgy, and sold the club to ESI just to spite us?

MuttleyCAFC

killerandflash said:

The reality is that every club in the Championship (and most in L1) loses money. Some small amounts, some eye watering amounts, and it all gets covered by the owners. Until they either run out of money or interest in the club.

And then, that's when it gets tricky, especially as few of them these days are "supporters made good", who will accept their losses and try and find decent buyers for the club. A random owner from the US, Thailand, Belgium or Turkey may not think like that, as we know from our own experience.

I would love to know what Roland really thought of ESI? Did he think they were genuinely wealthy owners, or did he just see them as a very convenient way of getting rid of the loss making club while holding on the the stadium and training ground, not caring what happened next? Indeed did he know Southall was dodgy, and sold the club to ESI just to spite us?

I'm pretty sure it was the latter. It should not have been allowed to happen.

charltonbob

killerandflash said:

The reality is that every club in the Championship (and most in L1) loses money. Some small amounts, some eye watering amounts, and it all gets covered by the owners. Until they either run out of money or interest in the club.

And then, that's when it gets tricky, especially as few of them these days are "supporters made good", who will accept their losses and try and find decent buyers for the club. A random owner from the US, Thailand, Belgium or Turkey may not think like that, as we know from our own experience.

I would love to know what Roland really thought of ESI? Did he think they were genuinely wealthy owners, or did he just see them as a very convenient way of getting rid of the loss making club while holding on the the stadium and training ground, not caring what happened next? Indeed did he know Southall was dodgy, and sold the club to ESI just to spite us?

Don't think it was to spite us (even though he hated us) I think it was purely a good (for him) business decision, get rid of the loss making football club while retaining The Valley & SL. Whether he knew esi were dodgy well he did send a message to supporters, " enjoy it while you can"

Leroy Ambrose

charltonbob said:

killerandflash said:

The reality is that every club in the Championship (and most in L1) loses money. Some small amounts, some eye watering amounts, and it all gets covered by the owners. Until they either run out of money or interest in the club.

And then, that's when it gets tricky, especially as few of them these days are "supporters made good", who will accept their losses and try and find decent buyers for the club. A random owner from the US, Thailand, Belgium or Turkey may not think like that, as we know from our own experience.

I would love to know what Roland really thought of ESI? Did he think they were genuinely wealthy owners, or did he just see them as a very convenient way of getting rid of the loss making club while holding on the the stadium and training ground, not caring what happened next? Indeed did he know Southall was dodgy, and sold the club to ESI just to spite us?

Don't think it was to spite us (even though he hated us) I think it was purely a good (for him) business decision, get rid of the loss making football club while retaining The Valley & SL. Whether he knew esi were dodgy well he did send a message to supporters, " enjoy it while you can"

I still remember his poisonous 'be careful what you wish for' jibe when he went. He absolutely knew they were a bunch of fucking chancers. The man was, and is, a (unt. 

WHAddick

ForeverAddickted said:

Crazy how little coverage both Sheff Wed / Morecambe are getting from the Footballing world, whilst Sky Sports are more interested in Isak's behaviour, as he tries to push for a move to Liverpool.

At least they're not doing countdown clocks like they did for Bolton / Bury I suppose.

Maybe a bit late but there has been a fair bit on five live today about Morecambe 

msomerton

ForeverAddickted said:

Crazy how little coverage both Sheff Wed / Morecambe are getting from the Footballing world, whilst Sky Sports are more interested in Isak's behaviour, as he tries to push for a move to Liverpool.

At least they're not doing countdown clocks like they did for Bolton / Bury I suppose.

the lower league teams do not exist as far as the broadcast companies are concerned until they need to feel up the schedules, that is about it.

Athletico Charlton

ForeverAddickted said:

Crazy how little coverage both Sheff Wed / Morecambe are getting from the Footballing world, whilst Sky Sports are more interested in Isak's behaviour, as he tries to push for a move to Liverpool.

At least they're not doing countdown clocks like they did for Bolton / Bury I suppose.

Yep, seen it said on here that a big club going to the wall is what football needs as it will wake people up.  Sad thing is that whilst Sheffield Wednesday are a big club, if they did go under, it would cause barely a ripple as nowadays all the focus is solely in the PL.  Plenty of fringe football fans would not know what division Sheffield Weds are even in.

ForeverAddickted

Athletico Charlton said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Crazy how little coverage both Sheff Wed / Morecambe are getting from the Footballing world, whilst Sky Sports are more interested in Isak's behaviour, as he tries to push for a move to Liverpool.

At least they're not doing countdown clocks like they did for Bolton / Bury I suppose.

Yep, seen it said on here that a big club going to the wall is what foot all needs as it will wake people up.  Sad thing is that whilst Sheffield Wednesday are a big club, if they did go under, it would cause barely a ripple as nowadays all the focus is solely in the PL.  Plenty of fringe football fans would not know what division Sheffield Weds are even in.

The cynic in me says that the powers in the country wouldn't allow it to happen if it was a big side like Liverpool or Man Utd, and they'd be bailed out like Thames Water.

MarcusH26

ForeverAddickted said:

Athletico Charlton said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Crazy how little coverage both Sheff Wed / Morecambe are getting from the Footballing world, whilst Sky Sports are more interested in Isak's behaviour, as he tries to push for a move to Liverpool.

At least they're not doing countdown clocks like they did for Bolton / Bury I suppose.

Yep, seen it said on here that a big club going to the wall is what foot all needs as it will wake people up.  Sad thing is that whilst Sheffield Wednesday are a big club, if they did go under, it would cause barely a ripple as nowadays all the focus is solely in the PL.  Plenty of fringe football fans would not know what division Sheffield Weds are even in.

The cynic in me says that the powers in the country wouldn't allow it to happen if it was a big side like Liverpool or Man Utd, and they'd be bailed out like Thames Water.

I'm going to use one of my other favourite sports as an example, Manor, Caterham and Hispania all went to the wall in F1 but the then known as Force India team were saved , okay it took some dramatic moves behind the scenes from Mercedes and Sergio Perez as creditors to enable the Stroll deal but everyone got it done eventually. 

clive

Debt, delays & desperation - how Sheff Wed crisis impacts fans

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cnv7559mdq2o

ShootersHillGuru

ForeverAddickted said:

Athletico Charlton said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Crazy how little coverage both Sheff Wed / Morecambe are getting from the Footballing world, whilst Sky Sports are more interested in Isak's behaviour, as he tries to push for a move to Liverpool.

At least they're not doing countdown clocks like they did for Bolton / Bury I suppose.

Yep, seen it said on here that a big club going to the wall is what foot all needs as it will wake people up.  Sad thing is that whilst Sheffield Wednesday are a big club, if they did go under, it would cause barely a ripple as nowadays all the focus is solely in the PL.  Plenty of fringe football fans would not know what division Sheffield Weds are even in.

The cynic in me says that the powers in the country wouldn't allow it to happen if it was a big side like Liverpool or Man Utd, and they'd be bailed out like Thames Water.

There’s not a chance that taxpayers money would be used to bail out a football club. It would set a precedent that would encourage owners to be even more reckless than some already are. I think there’s an argument for a local authority to pump in some money to help out within certain limits and risks because football clubs are important to communities but I’d say it’s highly unlikely that a football club would be saved from the mismanagement of an owner by the state.

Yorkshireaddick

If it’s all goes Pete Tong at least they’ve another team just down the road to support and there’s always Leeds…

Redrobo

The German 50+1 rule on ownership is by far the best system in the World.
A forlorn hope I know, but this system is the one fans and the new regulator should aspire to.

Char1t0n

Yorkshireaddick said:

If it’s all goes Pete Tong at least they’ve another team just down the road to support and there’s always Leeds…

I know you're joking here, but we al know as football fans, we'd rather rebuild our clubs from scratch than support another, if we were to go under. Supporting the "other" down the road doesn't bear thinking about, especially when it's Millwall in our case. 

letthegoodtimesroll

Anybody on here been looking at this from a professional perspective ? I wonder if this might have an impact on (bigger) football clubs and owners ? - I’m assuming that agency hired matchday staff aren’t classed as employees under the Act. Otherwise that qualification plus £16m in assets will capture a lot more clubs and ‘fraud’ can have a simplistic and wide ranging definition.

jimmymelrose

ForeverAddickted said:

Athletico Charlton said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Crazy how little coverage both Sheff Wed / Morecambe are getting from the Footballing world, whilst Sky Sports are more interested in Isak's behaviour, as he tries to push for a move to Liverpool.

At least they're not doing countdown clocks like they did for Bolton / Bury I suppose.

Yep, seen it said on here that a big club going to the wall is what foot all needs as it will wake people up.  Sad thing is that whilst Sheffield Wednesday are a big club, if they did go under, it would cause barely a ripple as nowadays all the focus is solely in the PL.  Plenty of fringe football fans would not know what division Sheffield Weds are even in.

The cynic in me says that the powers in the country wouldn't allow it to happen if it was a big side like Liverpool or Man Utd, and they'd be bailed out like Thames Water.

Don’t forget that Sheff Wednesday have been English champions four times and FA Cup winners three times.

In the late eighties and  early nineties they were still a top club.

If today’s big clubs slipped down to the Championship and League One for 30 years then they’d get forgotten about quite easily too.

jimmymelrose

Stu_of_Kunming said:

golfaddick said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

I actually wrote an e mail to The EFL this morning saying I thought that it was a disgrace that they hadn’t issued a statement on the situation so that the Sheffield Wednesday fans had an official understanding of where things were. I received the reply (below about an hour ago)

Word salad saying nothing. 

The club is not paying staff, HMRC or clubs they owe transfer fees to. Surely that is worth more than a transfer embargo. When a new owner comes in they need to show that have adequate funds & source of those funds. If Chansari cant do that then they need to act. Whether that is a points deduction, relegation, being thrown out the League I dont know. But simply saying "nothing we can do" is a crock of shit  

So you want them to just start making up rules? 

Yes, absolutely! Make some rules  - what a novel idea!

Make some set rules so that the punishment is clear before the the irregularities occur.

Whenever there’s a points deduction, it’s never clear how many points it must be, and whether it’s the current season or the next. If there had been clear rules in 19-20 maybe Sheffield Wednesday would have been relegated instead of us.

Stu_of_Kunming

jimmymelrose said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

golfaddick said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

I actually wrote an e mail to The EFL this morning saying I thought that it was a disgrace that they hadn’t issued a statement on the situation so that the Sheffield Wednesday fans had an official understanding of where things were. I received the reply (below about an hour ago)

Word salad saying nothing. 

The club is not paying staff, HMRC or clubs they owe transfer fees to. Surely that is worth more than a transfer embargo. When a new owner comes in they need to show that have adequate funds & source of those funds. If Chansari cant do that then they need to act. Whether that is a points deduction, relegation, being thrown out the League I dont know. But simply saying "nothing we can do" is a crock of shit  

So you want them to just start making up rules? 

Yes, absolutely! Make some rules  - what a novel idea!

Make some set rules so that the punishment is clear before the the irregularities occur.

Whenever there’s a points deduction, it’s never clear how many points it must be, and whether it’s the current season or the next. If there had been clear rules in 19-20 maybe Sheffield Wednesday would have been relegated instead of us.

Surely you understand why turkeys don’t vote for Xmas though, right? Just like club owner won’t vote themselves into potential trouble. 

Chris_from_Sidcup

jimmymelrose said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Athletico Charlton said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Crazy how little coverage both Sheff Wed / Morecambe are getting from the Footballing world, whilst Sky Sports are more interested in Isak's behaviour, as he tries to push for a move to Liverpool.

At least they're not doing countdown clocks like they did for Bolton / Bury I suppose.

Yep, seen it said on here that a big club going to the wall is what foot all needs as it will wake people up.  Sad thing is that whilst Sheffield Wednesday are a big club, if they did go under, it would cause barely a ripple as nowadays all the focus is solely in the PL.  Plenty of fringe football fans would not know what division Sheffield Weds are even in.

The cynic in me says that the powers in the country wouldn't allow it to happen if it was a big side like Liverpool or Man Utd, and they'd be bailed out like Thames Water.

Don’t forget that Sheff Wednesday have been English champions four times and FA Cup winners three times.

In the late eighties and  early nineties they were still a top club.

If today’s big clubs slipped down to the Championship and League One for 30 years then they’d get forgotten about quite easily too.

This is why i've always associated them as being a big club. In the early 90s when i was a kid they had the likes of David Hirst, Mark Bright, Des Walker and were one of the best sides in the country. Finished 3rd in the league one year, got to 2 cup finals in one season and played in the UEFA cup.

ShootersHillGuru

Stu_of_Kunming said:

jimmymelrose said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

golfaddick said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

I actually wrote an e mail to The EFL this morning saying I thought that it was a disgrace that they hadn’t issued a statement on the situation so that the Sheffield Wednesday fans had an official understanding of where things were. I received the reply (below about an hour ago)

Word salad saying nothing. 

The club is not paying staff, HMRC or clubs they owe transfer fees to. Surely that is worth more than a transfer embargo. When a new owner comes in they need to show that have adequate funds & source of those funds. If Chansari cant do that then they need to act. Whether that is a points deduction, relegation, being thrown out the League I dont know. But simply saying "nothing we can do" is a crock of shit  

So you want them to just start making up rules? 

Yes, absolutely! Make some rules  - what a novel idea!

Make some set rules so that the punishment is clear before the the irregularities occur.

Whenever there’s a points deduction, it’s never clear how many points it must be, and whether it’s the current season or the next. If there had been clear rules in 19-20 maybe Sheffield Wednesday would have been relegated instead of us.

Surely you understand why turkeys don’t vote for Xmas though, right? Just like club owner won’t vote themselves into potential trouble. 

Can’t help thinking that the rules making should be taken out of clubs hands. They’ve had their chance to regulate themselves and cheated and connived. There is an independent regulator now. I hope it has real teeth and bites a few arses. 

Stu_of_Kunming

ShootersHillGuru said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

jimmymelrose said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

golfaddick said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

I actually wrote an e mail to The EFL this morning saying I thought that it was a disgrace that they hadn’t issued a statement on the situation so that the Sheffield Wednesday fans had an official understanding of where things were. I received the reply (below about an hour ago)

Word salad saying nothing. 

The club is not paying staff, HMRC or clubs they owe transfer fees to. Surely that is worth more than a transfer embargo. When a new owner comes in they need to show that have adequate funds & source of those funds. If Chansari cant do that then they need to act. Whether that is a points deduction, relegation, being thrown out the League I dont know. But simply saying "nothing we can do" is a crock of shit  

So you want them to just start making up rules? 

Yes, absolutely! Make some rules  - what a novel idea!

Make some set rules so that the punishment is clear before the the irregularities occur.

Whenever there’s a points deduction, it’s never clear how many points it must be, and whether it’s the current season or the next. If there had been clear rules in 19-20 maybe Sheffield Wednesday would have been relegated instead of us.

Surely you understand why turkeys don’t vote for Xmas though, right? Just like club owner won’t vote themselves into potential trouble. 

Can’t help thinking that the rules making should be taken out of clubs hands. They’ve had their chance to regulate themselves and cheated and connived. There is an independent regulator now. I hope it has real teeth and bites a few arses. 

Agree 100%

Starinnaddick

Unfortunately I think it's going to take a while to set up  the IFR group and be effective. 

ShootersHillGuru

Being reported here in Yorkshire that Wednesday are hoping to have a safety certificate in place for the north stand before the first home game. 

cabbles

If they do go bust, Skysports are left with just Sheff Utd and Hull to pick for their Friday night games. Last season, I think every Friday night game I tuned into had to involve one of Leeds, Hull and the two Sheffields.