In all seriousness, I do have a lot of sympathy for Wednesday fans. Yes there have to be some measures, but my attitude is that clubs shouldn't be unduly punished because they have a headcase of an owner, who won't see sense. Reading have gone through this as well, and I do have a bit of sympathy for the EFL, as they are restricted with what they can do. You can keep punishing the club, but the owner won't care.
The North Stand is quite a significant structure. The second ever cantilever stand opened in the UK, it was very advanced when it opened in 1961, but it and Hillsborough are badly showing their age now.
I was always fascinated by this stand having grown up reading (over and over again ) Simon Inglis' "Football Grounds of England and Wales". Hillsborough has always been one of my favourite grounds to visit since then. My first game was when the old kop was still uncovered and uneven.
The stand was built only 25 years after Highbury's art deco East Stand, but seems worlds apart. (on a sort of linked comparison which is perhaps more fascinating, is that there were only 11 years between the first flight of the Lancaster Bomber and the first flight of the Vulcan Bomber).
As a fan base I went off them when they took the piss from the stands on the last day of the first season in the Premiership (as was) when we were relegated. I'd like to think that we'd never take the piss out of a club in the same circumstances.
I'd like to think it too, but I'm fairly sure I've heard Charlton fans taunting opposition fans with chants of, 'you're going down with whoever' in the past, unless it was only me, but I don't think it was. Can't think why some delude themselves into believing our fans are saints who can do no wrong, others sinners? It's a mix, as at every other club.
"fairly sure" I would be very surprised if most on here wouldn't have sung songs like that in the past. It was/is common practice across the whole of football to take the piss out of the opposition. I doubt anybody was thinking "I hope that they go bust".
We weren't in danger of going bust when relegated in 1998/1999 though, so why would they have been taking the piss out of us hoping we would then? Have they ever? Some crossed wires here I think.
I'm sure Chansiri wants to sell but has a totally unrealistic asking price. A bit like our friend Roland. There is no way a club the size of Wednesday will fold , but they may have to take a couple of steps back to rise again.
‘Asking’ prices usually are unrealistic, that’s the whole point. They are set to kick start the process of determining the realistic price (ie the one where both the seller will sell and the buyer will buy); or they are set to either not sell or to underprice for a quick sale.
I suspect they’ll have to take more than a couple of steps back. If they owe HMRC, other clubs and the players money then it wouldn’t surprise me if there are others behind them in the queue for unpaid bills (eg police, catering, steward services, utilities etc). One stand has already been close but opening and running the others on a match day will need logistical support and services which might not necessarily be forthcoming by providers if they think they are not going to get paid.
They could always ground share with the other Sheffield club I guess.
In all seriousness, I do have a lot of sympathy for Wednesday fans. Yes there have to be some measures, but my attitude is that clubs shouldn't be unduly punished because they have a headcase of an owner, who won't see sense. Reading have gone through this as well, and I do have a bit of sympathy for the EFL, as they are restricted with what they can do. You can keep punishing the club, but the owner won't care.
The North Stand is quite a significant structure. The second ever cantilever stand opened in the UK, it was very advanced when it opened in 1961, but it and Hillsborough are badly showing their age now.
I was always fascinated by this stand having grown up reading (over and over again ) Simon Inglis' "Football Grounds of England and Wales". Hillsborough has always been one of my favourite grounds to visit since then. My first game was when the old kop was still uncovered and uneven.
The stand was built only 25 years after Highbury's art deco East Stand, but seems worlds apart. (on a sort of linked comparison which is perhaps more fascinating, is that there were only 11 years between the first flight of the Lancaster Bomber and the first flight of the Vulcan Bomber).
As a fan base I went off them when they took the piss from the stands on the last day of the first season in the Premiership (as was) when we were relegated. I'd like to think that we'd never take the piss out of a club in the same circumstances.
I'd like to think it too, but I'm fairly sure I've heard Charlton fans taunting opposition fans with chants of, 'you're going down with whoever' in the past, unless it was only me, but I don't think it was. Can't think why some delude themselves into believing our fans are saints who can do no wrong, others sinners? It's a mix, as at every other club.
"fairly sure" I would be very surprised if most on here wouldn't have sung songs like that in the past. It was/is common practice across the whole of football to take the piss out of the opposition. I doubt anybody was thinking "I hope that they go bust".
We weren't in danger of going bust when relegated in 1998/1999 though, so why would they have been taking the piss out of us hoping we would then? Have they ever? Some crossed wires here I think.
They were taking the piss because we were going down, the same as almost every clubs supporters do when playing a team being relegated. There has been the odd occasion like at Old Trafford when their supporters applauded us but that is a rarity.
In all seriousness, I do have a lot of sympathy for Wednesday fans. Yes there have to be some measures, but my attitude is that clubs shouldn't be unduly punished because they have a headcase of an owner, who won't see sense. Reading have gone through this as well, and I do have a bit of sympathy for the EFL, as they are restricted with what they can do. You can keep punishing the club, but the owner won't care.
The North Stand is quite a significant structure. The second ever cantilever stand opened in the UK, it was very advanced when it opened in 1961, but it and Hillsborough are badly showing their age now.
I was always fascinated by this stand having grown up reading (over and over again ) Simon Inglis' "Football Grounds of England and Wales". Hillsborough has always been one of my favourite grounds to visit since then. My first game was when the old kop was still uncovered and uneven.
The stand was built only 25 years after Highbury's art deco East Stand, but seems worlds apart. (on a sort of linked comparison which is perhaps more fascinating, is that there were only 11 years between the first flight of the Lancaster Bomber and the first flight of the Vulcan Bomber).
As a fan base I went off them when they took the piss from the stands on the last day of the first season in the Premiership (as was) when we were relegated. I'd like to think that we'd never take the piss out of a club in the same circumstances.
I'd like to think it too, but I'm fairly sure I've heard Charlton fans taunting opposition fans with chants of, 'you're going down with whoever' in the past, unless it was only me, but I don't think it was. Can't think why some delude themselves into believing our fans are saints who can do no wrong, others sinners? It's a mix, as at every other club.
"fairly sure" I would be very surprised if most on here wouldn't have sung songs like that in the past. It was/is common practice across the whole of football to take the piss out of the opposition. I doubt anybody was thinking "I hope that they go bust".
We weren't in danger of going bust when relegated in 1998/1999 though, so why would they have been taking the piss out of us hoping we would then? Have they ever? Some crossed wires here I think.
They were taking the piss because we were going down, the same as almost every clubs supporters do when playing a team being relegated. There has been the odd occasion like at Old Trafford when their supporters applauded us but that is a rarity.
Which is what I said. The poster I was responding to listed it as a reason for hating them as if they were somehow unique in that, unless I misunderstood his post.
I genuinely think that Sheffield Wednesday will get new ownership. It’s inconceivable that there isn’t someone out there who that doesn’t see the potential. The problem for them is very much in the short term. They’re already under a transfer embargo and the delayed salaries mean the squad is depleted. Unless something has gone completely under the radar which is pretty much impossible, there is not a buyer close to gaining control. I’d imagine that a points deduction is next and staying up looks like a monumental task but not impossible. It would be interesting to see just how much debt SW actually has and to whom. Perhaps one of our Wednesday posters could help with that. I suspect that the money generated from player sales have paid some key players to stop them walking and also to pay HMRC even if it’s part payment with an agreed plan. It’s the only way Chansiri can keep all his plates spinning. Isn’t Hillsborough owned by a company that Chansiri owns ? How does that work in the scheme of things ? Any value that the club has is maximised by it being in The Championship. Relegation will make things a lot harder for a new owner but there is someone out there who will take it on.
There are 2 big questions, does someone want to buy of Chansiri and will he actually sell? The second one is the biggest concern but I can certainly see a scenario where the only buyers are ESI types and things don’t actually improve
I thought I’d read along the way is that Wednesday owed money to around 20 other clubs for transfers. If that is the case then the impact upon them is probably what’s causing the impasse.
If Wednesday gets kicked of the league and walks away from its debts and starts again then 20 other clubs who in turn probably owe money to other clubs could tip over.
I seem to remember there’s an agreement in place that ensures debts to football clubs and players are honoured first. I’m sure it was one of the reasons both Leicester and Palace ended up stiffing local businesses.
Have I misremembered that?
Yes, but that only applies if the club survives by doing a deal with its creditors to only pay a proportion of the amount owed. Clubs in that situation have to pay debts to players and to other clubs in full, or they get relegated multiple divisions as if they'd gone bust and started again. It's designed to ensure clubs will do everything they possibly can to ensure football debts are honoured.
If the club actually goes bust and is liquidated then the people handling the liquidation aren't allowed to prioritise - if selling the ground and the right to use the club badge raises enough to pay half the total debt then everyone gets half what they're owed including other clubs. Which does create the risk of a smaller club somewhere suddenly being insolvent because they were relying on the money they were owed.
They’re getting the Vote. Tell them to write to their local MPs. Somehow I suspect they’ll be more than happy to take it up with Wednesday’s owner and get action taken if it’s not sorted asap 😉
I genuinely think that Sheffield Wednesday will get new ownership. It’s inconceivable that there isn’t someone out there who that doesn’t see the potential. The problem for them is very much in the short term. They’re already under a transfer embargo and the delayed salaries mean the squad is depleted. Unless something has gone completely under the radar which is pretty much impossible, there is not a buyer close to gaining control. I’d imagine that a points deduction is next and staying up looks like a monumental task but not impossible. It would be interesting to see just how much debt SW actually has and to whom. Perhaps one of our Wednesday posters could help with that. I suspect that the money generated from player sales have paid some key players to stop them walking and also to pay HMRC even if it’s part payment with an agreed plan. It’s the only way Chansiri can keep all his plates spinning. Isn’t Hillsborough owned by a company that Chansiri owns ? How does that work in the scheme of things ? Any value that the club has is maximised by it being in The Championship. Relegation will make things a lot harder for a new owner but there is someone out there who will take it on.
There are 2 big questions, does someone want to buy of Chansiri and will he actually sell? The second one is the biggest concern but I can certainly see a scenario where the only buyers are ESI types and things don’t actually improve
I thought I’d read along the way is that Wednesday owed money to around 20 other clubs for transfers. If that is the case then the impact upon them is probably what’s causing the impasse.
If Wednesday gets kicked of the league and walks away from its debts and starts again then 20 other clubs who in turn probably owe money to other clubs could tip over.
I seem to remember there’s an agreement in place that ensures debts to football clubs and players are honoured first. I’m sure it was one of the reasons both Leicester and Palace ended up stiffing local businesses.
Have I misremembered that?
Yes, but that only applies if the club survives by doing a deal with its creditors to only pay a proportion of the amount owed. Clubs in that situation have to pay debts to players and to other clubs in full, or they get relegated multiple divisions as if they'd gone bust and started again. It's designed to ensure clubs will do everything they possibly can to ensure football debts are honoured.
If the club actually goes bust and is liquidated then the people handling the liquidation aren't allowed to prioritise - if selling the ground and the right to use the club badge raises enough to pay half the total debt then everyone gets half what they're owed including other clubs. Which does create the risk of a smaller club somewhere suddenly being insolvent because they were relying on the money they were owed.
In Sheffield Wednesdays case they don’t own Hillsborough.
They’re getting the Vote. Tell them to write to their local MPs. Somehow I suspect they’ll be more than happy to take it up with Wednesday’s owner and get action taken if it’s not sorted asap 😉
Out local MPs have been writing to Chansiri for weeks and months. Most of the time he ignores them but the most recent one he just told the MPs 'what's it got to do with you'... the subject that the MPs were wanting to speak to him with a matter of urgency was the closure of the stand, the safety of supporters and representing disabled supporters from that stand.
Quite shocking that The EFL are not making a statement. They owe the supporters that much. Being kept in the dark about the official line is inexcusable.
They’re getting the Vote. Tell them to write to their local MPs. Somehow I suspect they’ll be more than happy to take it up with Wednesday’s owner and get action taken if it’s not sorted asap 😉
Out local MPs have been writing to Chansiri for weeks and months. Most of the time he ignores them but the most recent one he just told the MPs 'what's it got to do with you'... the subject that the MPs were wanting to speak to him with a matter of urgency was the closure of the stand, the safety of supporters and representing disabled supporters from that stand.
MPs can put a lot of indirect pressure on the owner and club. That’s their job. I suspect he may well find out what it has got to do with them and what they can do about it, that or that they know a man/woman who can.
Out local MPs have been writing to Chansiri for weeks and months. Most of the time he ignores them but the most recent one he just told the MPs 'what's it got to do with you'....
That statement on its own shows how utterly detached some owners are from football. Quit a few local MO's may be fans of their local club, and most would dislike their constituents being put at risk in a dodgy stand,, or fans being unable to attend as the ground is so run down. The football authorities really need to start getting involved now. If Chansiri won't fund the club but expects to be paid a huge amount for a club who are debt ridden and no longer own their ground, it's time to think about how to safeguard a historic club. As they failed to do with Bury.
Out local MPs have been writing to Chansiri for weeks and months. Most of the time he ignores them but the most recent one he just told the MPs 'what's it got to do with you'....
That statement on its own shows how utterly detached some owners are from football. Quit a few local MO's may be fans of their local club, and most would dislike their constituents being put at risk in a dodgy stand,, or fans being unable to attend as the ground is so run down. The football authorities really need to start getting involved now. If Chansiri won't fund the club but expects to be paid a huge amount for a club who are debt ridden and no longer own their ground, it's time to think about how to safeguard a historic club. As they failed to do with Bury.
They’re effectively insolvent. That’s actually illegal. EFL have to make a statement
I genuinely think that Sheffield Wednesday will get new ownership. It’s inconceivable that there isn’t someone out there who that doesn’t see the potential. The problem for them is very much in the short term. They’re already under a transfer embargo and the delayed salaries mean the squad is depleted. Unless something has gone completely under the radar which is pretty much impossible, there is not a buyer close to gaining control. I’d imagine that a points deduction is next and staying up looks like a monumental task but not impossible. It would be interesting to see just how much debt SW actually has and to whom. Perhaps one of our Wednesday posters could help with that. I suspect that the money generated from player sales have paid some key players to stop them walking and also to pay HMRC even if it’s part payment with an agreed plan. It’s the only way Chansiri can keep all his plates spinning. Isn’t Hillsborough owned by a company that Chansiri owns ? How does that work in the scheme of things ? Any value that the club has is maximised by it being in The Championship. Relegation will make things a lot harder for a new owner but there is someone out there who will take it on.
There are 2 big questions, does someone want to buy of Chansiri and will he actually sell? The second one is the biggest concern but I can certainly see a scenario where the only buyers are ESI types and things don’t actually improve
I thought I’d read along the way is that Wednesday owed money to around 20 other clubs for transfers. If that is the case then the impact upon them is probably what’s causing the impasse.
If Wednesday gets kicked of the league and walks away from its debts and starts again then 20 other clubs who in turn probably owe money to other clubs could tip over.
I seem to remember there’s an agreement in place that ensures debts to football clubs and players are honoured first. I’m sure it was one of the reasons both Leicester and Palace ended up stiffing local businesses.
Have I misremembered that?
Yes, but that only applies if the club survives by doing a deal with its creditors to only pay a proportion of the amount owed. Clubs in that situation have to pay debts to players and to other clubs in full, or they get relegated multiple divisions as if they'd gone bust and started again. It's designed to ensure clubs will do everything they possibly can to ensure football debts are honoured.
If the club actually goes bust and is liquidated then the people handling the liquidation aren't allowed to prioritise - if selling the ground and the right to use the club badge raises enough to pay half the total debt then everyone gets half what they're owed including other clubs. Which does create the risk of a smaller club somewhere suddenly being insolvent because they were relying on the money they were owed.
In Sheffield Wednesdays case they don’t own Hillsborough.
In that case liquidation would probably end with no-one getting anything at all, so it wouldn't matter if there was a priority order.
Administration, as happened to Derby, can work out OK. The benefit of being able to carry on at the same level with no more than a points penalty is a strong motivation for anyone buying a club from administration to pay all football debts in full. Failing to do that means re-starting outside the league, and anything up to 5 divisions below League 2. Potentially even more than that in the nightmare scenario where the club ceases trading, the supporters have to set up a replacement but the owner keeps the club in existence and registered with the FA (as happened to Bury).
Normally, not owning the ground isn't a bad thing if a club's at risk of going under. If it belongs to a council or a local charity it gets protected from bankruptcy and the club can take out a new lease once they've sorted out their finances.
However, if the ground is owned by someone who doesn't like the club, such as (for example) a terrible owner who's currently running the club into the ground ... well, that's not good.
The EFL are so spineless - their playbook is basically ignore it and hope it all miraculously gets better.
Insane, but not unexpected, they have taken no action on SWFC.
Who knows, maybe certain MPs or government Ministers had previously asked them and HMRC to give Wednesday a bit more time to resolve things…isn’t that how it works ? 😁
I genuinely think that Sheffield Wednesday will get new ownership. It’s inconceivable that there isn’t someone out there who that doesn’t see the potential. The problem for them is very much in the short term. They’re already under a transfer embargo and the delayed salaries mean the squad is depleted. Unless something has gone completely under the radar which is pretty much impossible, there is not a buyer close to gaining control. I’d imagine that a points deduction is next and staying up looks like a monumental task but not impossible. It would be interesting to see just how much debt SW actually has and to whom. Perhaps one of our Wednesday posters could help with that. I suspect that the money generated from player sales have paid some key players to stop them walking and also to pay HMRC even if it’s part payment with an agreed plan. It’s the only way Chansiri can keep all his plates spinning. Isn’t Hillsborough owned by a company that Chansiri owns ? How does that work in the scheme of things ? Any value that the club has is maximised by it being in The Championship. Relegation will make things a lot harder for a new owner but there is someone out there who will take it on.
There are 2 big questions, does someone want to buy of Chansiri and will he actually sell? The second one is the biggest concern but I can certainly see a scenario where the only buyers are ESI types and things don’t actually improve
I thought I’d read along the way is that Wednesday owed money to around 20 other clubs for transfers. If that is the case then the impact upon them is probably what’s causing the impasse.
If Wednesday gets kicked of the league and walks away from its debts and starts again then 20 other clubs who in turn probably owe money to other clubs could tip over.
I seem to remember there’s an agreement in place that ensures debts to football clubs and players are honoured first. I’m sure it was one of the reasons both Leicester and Palace ended up stiffing local businesses.
Have I misremembered that?
Yes, but that only applies if the club survives by doing a deal with its creditors to only pay a proportion of the amount owed. Clubs in that situation have to pay debts to players and to other clubs in full, or they get relegated multiple divisions as if they'd gone bust and started again. It's designed to ensure clubs will do everything they possibly can to ensure football debts are honoured.
If the club actually goes bust and is liquidated then the people handling the liquidation aren't allowed to prioritise - if selling the ground and the right to use the club badge raises enough to pay half the total debt then everyone gets half what they're owed including other clubs. Which does create the risk of a smaller club somewhere suddenly being insolvent because they were relying on the money they were owed.
In Sheffield Wednesdays case they don’t own Hillsborough.
In that case liquidation would probably end with no-one getting anything at all, so it wouldn't matter if there was a priority order.
Administration, as happened to Derby, can work out OK. The benefit of being able to carry on at the same level with no more than a points penalty is a strong motivation for anyone buying a club from administration to pay all football debts in full. Failing to do that means re-starting outside the league, and anything up to 5 divisions below League 2. Potentially even more than that in the nightmare scenario where the club ceases trading, the supporters have to set up a replacement but the owner keeps the club in existence and registered with the FA (as happened to Bury).
Normally, not owning the ground isn't a bad thing if a club's at risk of going under. If it belongs to a council or a local charity it gets protected from bankruptcy and the club can take out a new lease once they've sorted out their finances.
However, if the ground is owned by someone who doesn't like the club, such as (for example) a terrible owner who's currently running the club into the ground ... well, that's not good.
An insolvency practitioner may well look at how assets were disposed of and where that money went. I am sure he did everything perfectly.
The EFL are so spineless - their playbook is basically ignore it and hope it all miraculously gets better.
Insane, but not unexpected, they have taken no action on SWFC.
I expect the EFL are waiting to see if the players & staff get paid this month. Once we enter August & find that they weren't paid in July then the EFL will have to act as I believe there will be another sanction due.
The EFL are so spineless - their playbook is basically ignore it and hope it all miraculously gets better.
Insane, but not unexpected, they have taken no action on SWFC.
I expect the EFL are waiting to see if the players & staff get paid this month. Once we enter August & find that they weren't paid in July then the EFL will have to act as I believe there will be another sanction due.
Didn’t the owner at Reading get a personal fine for the owner,a point deduction (1) and have to deposit money with the EFL when they hit three late payments? I expect that to happen now to SW.
Didn’t the owner at Reading get a personal fine for the owner,a point deduction (1) and have to deposit money with the EFL when they hit three late payments? I expect that to happen now to SW.
I suspect it will happen later down the line. Weve had deductions before and it took a while for them to come into fruition due to various processes.
But ironically we won't need them. We are down anyway. I don't think we'll hit 25 points if we do indeed start the season. No need for anyone to worry about that.
Didn’t the owner at Reading get a personal fine for the owner,a point deduction (1) and have to deposit money with the EFL when they hit three late payments? I expect that to happen now to SW.
I don’t think there is any money to deposit with anyone to pay for the basics let alone deposit a sum with The EFL. I wonder if the monthly payments of TV money via The EFL will be withheld as security ? If that’s the case I doubt SW will be able to function at all.
I genuinely think that Sheffield Wednesday will get new ownership. It’s inconceivable that there isn’t someone out there who that doesn’t see the potential. The problem for them is very much in the short term. They’re already under a transfer embargo and the delayed salaries mean the squad is depleted. Unless something has gone completely under the radar which is pretty much impossible, there is not a buyer close to gaining control. I’d imagine that a points deduction is next and staying up looks like a monumental task but not impossible. It would be interesting to see just how much debt SW actually has and to whom. Perhaps one of our Wednesday posters could help with that. I suspect that the money generated from player sales have paid some key players to stop them walking and also to pay HMRC even if it’s part payment with an agreed plan. It’s the only way Chansiri can keep all his plates spinning. Isn’t Hillsborough owned by a company that Chansiri owns ? How does that work in the scheme of things ? Any value that the club has is maximised by it being in The Championship. Relegation will make things a lot harder for a new owner but there is someone out there who will take it on.
There are 2 big questions, does someone want to buy of Chansiri and will he actually sell? The second one is the biggest concern but I can certainly see a scenario where the only buyers are ESI types and things don’t actually improve
I thought I’d read along the way is that Wednesday owed money to around 20 other clubs for transfers. If that is the case then the impact upon them is probably what’s causing the impasse.
If Wednesday gets kicked of the league and walks away from its debts and starts again then 20 other clubs who in turn probably owe money to other clubs could tip over.
I seem to remember there’s an agreement in place that ensures debts to football clubs and players are honoured first. I’m sure it was one of the reasons both Leicester and Palace ended up stiffing local businesses.
Have I misremembered that?
Yes, but that only applies if the club survives by doing a deal with its creditors to only pay a proportion of the amount owed. Clubs in that situation have to pay debts to players and to other clubs in full, or they get relegated multiple divisions as if they'd gone bust and started again. It's designed to ensure clubs will do everything they possibly can to ensure football debts are honoured.
If the club actually goes bust and is liquidated then the people handling the liquidation aren't allowed to prioritise - if selling the ground and the right to use the club badge raises enough to pay half the total debt then everyone gets half what they're owed including other clubs. Which does create the risk of a smaller club somewhere suddenly being insolvent because they were relying on the money they were owed.
In Sheffield Wednesdays case they don’t own Hillsborough.
Chansiri does, he even has his name displayed in the seats of the North Stand.
For balance, after the final whistle on the last day of the 98-99 season, fans in the JS started singing, ‘We’ll be back’ and a big group of Sheff Wed supporters came over, applauding. In other words, they are the same as any other fan base (excluding Millwall, obviously).
The EFL are so spineless - their playbook is basically ignore it and hope it all miraculously gets better.
Insane, but not unexpected, they have taken no action on SWFC.
Not true.
They have put them under a transfer embargo.
Is that sufficient? Not by a long shot IMHO but they have taken some action.
The problems are that the EFL officials are weak and unwilling confront bad owners and that there own rules and punishments are weak, often because those rules and punishment are set by the owners like the guy who owns Sheffield Wednesday.
The EFL are so spineless - their playbook is basically ignore it and hope it all miraculously gets better.
Insane, but not unexpected, they have taken no action on SWFC.
Not true.
They have put them under a transfer embargo.
Is that sufficient? Not by a long shot IMHO but they have taken some action.
The problems are that the EFL officials are weak and unwilling confront bad owners and that there own rules and punishments are weak, often because those rules and punishment are set by the owners like the guy who owns Sheffield Wednesday.
I don’t disagree with your post, but that is ‘action’ in the most literal sense of the word.
I wouldn’t call it action but rather automatically applying a clearly defined default punishment for a clear defined breach of the rules.
That’s where I think the EFL struggle, the punishments all seem very ad-hoc. They need to revise them all and have clear punishments for defined breaches and then everyone knows where they stand. But as you quite rightly say the owners will never vote to punish themselves so there in lies the ultimate issue - hopefully the regulator can sort this out for them!
The EFL are so spineless - their playbook is basically ignore it and hope it all miraculously gets better.
Insane, but not unexpected, they have taken no action on SWFC.
Not true.
They have put them under a transfer embargo.
Is that sufficient? Not by a long shot IMHO but they have taken some action.
The problems are that the EFL officials are weak and unwilling confront bad owners and that there own rules and punishments are weak, often because those rules and punishment are set by the owners like the guy who owns Sheffield Wednesday.
I don’t disagree with your post, but that is ‘action’ in the most literal sense of the word.
I wouldn’t call it action but rather automatically applying a clearly defined default punishment for a clear defined breach of the rules.
That’s where I think the EFL struggle, the punishments all seem very ad-hoc. They need to revise them all and have clear punishments for defined breaches and then everyone knows where they stand. But as you quite rightly say the owners will never vote to punish themselves so there in lies the ultimate issue - hopefully the regulator can sort this out for them!
If the EFL are applying a clearly defined punishment then they are the very opposite of "ad hoc".
The problem is that if they did apply "ad hoc" punishments then they would be accused by the owners and fans of that club of "making it up as they go along" or "picking on us" and be sued.
The issue, as I see it is that the EFL don't have enough defined punishments.
EG Fail to pay wages once warning. Twice = embargo. Thrice = 4 points deducted, Fourth time = relegation.
Fail to provide a budget and source of income to say how the coming season will be funded (as they have to do when buying a club) = relegation one division.
I genuinely think that Sheffield Wednesday will get new ownership. It’s inconceivable that there isn’t someone out there who that doesn’t see the potential. The problem for them is very much in the short term. They’re already under a transfer embargo and the delayed salaries mean the squad is depleted. Unless something has gone completely under the radar which is pretty much impossible, there is not a buyer close to gaining control. I’d imagine that a points deduction is next and staying up looks like a monumental task but not impossible. It would be interesting to see just how much debt SW actually has and to whom. Perhaps one of our Wednesday posters could help with that. I suspect that the money generated from player sales have paid some key players to stop them walking and also to pay HMRC even if it’s part payment with an agreed plan. It’s the only way Chansiri can keep all his plates spinning. Isn’t Hillsborough owned by a company that Chansiri owns ? How does that work in the scheme of things ? Any value that the club has is maximised by it being in The Championship. Relegation will make things a lot harder for a new owner but there is someone out there who will take it on.
There are 2 big questions, does someone want to buy of Chansiri and will he actually sell? The second one is the biggest concern but I can certainly see a scenario where the only buyers are ESI types and things don’t actually improve
I thought I’d read along the way is that Wednesday owed money to around 20 other clubs for transfers. If that is the case then the impact upon them is probably what’s causing the impasse.
If Wednesday gets kicked of the league and walks away from its debts and starts again then 20 other clubs who in turn probably owe money to other clubs could tip over.
I seem to remember there’s an agreement in place that ensures debts to football clubs and players are honoured first. I’m sure it was one of the reasons both Leicester and Palace ended up stiffing local businesses.
Have I misremembered that?
Yes, but that only applies if the club survives by doing a deal with its creditors to only pay a proportion of the amount owed. Clubs in that situation have to pay debts to players and to other clubs in full, or they get relegated multiple divisions as if they'd gone bust and started again. It's designed to ensure clubs will do everything they possibly can to ensure football debts are honoured.
If the club actually goes bust and is liquidated then the people handling the liquidation aren't allowed to prioritise - if selling the ground and the right to use the club badge raises enough to pay half the total debt then everyone gets half what they're owed including other clubs. Which does create the risk of a smaller club somewhere suddenly being insolvent because they were relying on the money they were owed.
In Sheffield Wednesdays case they don’t own Hillsborough.
Chansiri does, he even has his name displayed in the seats of the North Stand.
I've just got my season ticket through for the Southall stand upper. Ace
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‘Asking’ prices usually are unrealistic, that’s the whole point. They are set to kick start the process of determining the realistic price (ie the one where both the seller will sell and the buyer will buy); or they are set to either not sell or to underprice for a quick sale.
I suspect they’ll have to take more than a couple of steps back. If they owe HMRC, other clubs and the players money then it wouldn’t surprise me if there are others behind them in the queue for unpaid bills (eg police, catering, steward services, utilities etc). One stand has already been close but opening and running the others on a match day will need logistical support and services which might not necessarily be forthcoming by providers if they think they are not going to get paid.
They could always ground share with the other Sheffield club I guess.
If the club actually goes bust and is liquidated then the people handling the liquidation aren't allowed to prioritise - if selling the ground and the right to use the club badge raises enough to pay half the total debt then everyone gets half what they're owed including other clubs. Which does create the risk of a smaller club somewhere suddenly being insolvent because they were relying on the money they were owed.
Out local MPs have been writing to Chansiri for weeks and months. Most of the time he ignores them but the most recent one he just told the MPs 'what's it got to do with you'... the subject that the MPs were wanting to speak to him with a matter of urgency was the closure of the stand, the safety of supporters and representing disabled supporters from that stand.
If Chansiri won't fund the club but expects to be paid a huge amount for a club who are debt ridden and no longer own their ground, it's time to think about how to safeguard a historic club. As they failed to do with Bury.
Administration, as happened to Derby, can work out OK. The benefit of being able to carry on at the same level with no more than a points penalty is a strong motivation for anyone buying a club from administration to pay all football debts in full. Failing to do that means re-starting outside the league, and anything up to 5 divisions below League 2. Potentially even more than that in the nightmare scenario where the club ceases trading, the supporters have to set up a replacement but the owner keeps the club in existence and registered with the FA (as happened to Bury).
Normally, not owning the ground isn't a bad thing if a club's at risk of going under. If it belongs to a council or a local charity it gets protected from bankruptcy and the club can take out a new lease once they've sorted out their finances.
However, if the ground is owned by someone who doesn't like the club, such as (for example) a terrible owner who's currently running the club into the ground ... well, that's not good.
I am sure he did everything perfectly.
I expect that to happen now to SW.
But ironically we won't need them. We are down anyway. I don't think we'll hit 25 points if we do indeed start the season. No need for anyone to worry about that.
They have put them under a transfer embargo.
Is that sufficient? Not by a long shot IMHO but they have taken some action.
The problems are that the EFL officials are weak and unwilling confront bad owners and that there own rules and punishments are weak, often because those rules and punishment are set by the owners like the guy who owns Sheffield Wednesday.
The problem is that if they did apply "ad hoc" punishments then they would be accused by the owners and fans of that club of "making it up as they go along" or "picking on us" and be sued.
The issue, as I see it is that the EFL don't have enough defined punishments.
EG Fail to pay wages once warning. Twice = embargo. Thrice = 4 points deducted, Fourth time = relegation.
Fail to provide a budget and source of income to say how the coming season will be funded (as they have to do when buying a club) = relegation one division.