I'll be completely honest, I'm not that gutted. Harder to bond with players when the team and season in general is so shite. I'd rather have goals from across the team. The only thing that bugs me: surely we could have asked for a higher fee. Read somewhere that Birmingham have a budget of £20m? Surely we could have started at £3m for the league's top scorer. We signed Arose for £500k ffs!
a 31 year old that had never played above this level and you wanted £3m?
£1m is about right IMO.
Yes, because apparently 'we don't need to sell.' And I didn't say take £3m - make that your asking price and bring it down, but end higher than £775k, which is what he was sold for - not £1m. Which is £275k more than we paid for Nicky Ajose.* Unfortunately this is the culture at CAFC - overpay and undersell.
*Having done some research, apparently it was £800k. Good grief.
Even 800k is a decent fee in League One, only players going into the championship really go for more.
Ajose scored 24 in the season before we signed him, so £500k would have been a steal if he replicated that season. He was also much younger at 24/25.
I'll be completely honest, I'm not that gutted. Harder to bond with players when the team and season in general is so shite. I'd rather have goals from across the team. The only thing that bugs me: surely we could have asked for a higher fee. Read somewhere that Birmingham have a budget of £20m? Surely we could have started at £3m for the league's top scorer. We signed Arose for £500k ffs!
a 31 year old that had never played above this level and you wanted £3m?
£1m is about right IMO.
Yes, because apparently 'we don't need to sell.' And I didn't say take £3m - make that your asking price and bring it down, but end higher than £775k, which is what he was sold for - not £1m. Which is £275k more than we paid for Nicky Ajose.* Unfortunately this is the culture at CAFC - overpay and undersell.
*Having done some research, apparently it was £800k. Good grief.
Even 800k is a decent fee in League One, only players going into the championship really go for more.
Ajose scored 24 in the season before we signed him, so £500k would have been a steal if he replicated that season. He was also much younger at 24/25.
You're completely ignoring inflation and to a lesser extent the point - we have a chronic history of overpaying and underselling. We do not know how to maximise the return on our assets; there has been so much wastage over the years. Apparently we signed Ajose for £800k. How can May be worth less 8 years later? In relative terms it's hideous. Birmingham and Hudds are loaded. We should have exploited that.
3) What is his best ROLE? Not position, but role? Because he's not quite an on the shoulder of the last man attacker, but he's not a back to goal striker. There's a lot of movement, but not always a lot of outcome from it. He can't play up front on his own. He probably isn't technical enough for a 10. A lot of his goals came from him playing as a 10 or wide right, even if a lot want to forget that. 4) He doesn't really lead the press and he doesn't win the ball back, contrast that with Kanu. And if you can't lead the press and you can't play up front on your own or with your back to goal, you're in an awkward situation where you need to be accommodated for. And he scores enough goals to be accommodated for, but put this together with 3 above and you start to see how he could be an awkward fit in a squad. 5) He's not the most tactically advanced footballer. As a result, there's a lot of running but it's not the most effective running, especially when working the channels.
OK, thanks for that, plenty for me to think about there.
My immediate reaction is, that might be a view through the prism of someone who watches a lot of what we now call elite football, which I rarely do nowadays. But we are not at that level, overall.And then I have some questions:
- he wasn't signed to play up front on his own. It was going to be 3-5-2, wasn't it, and when the other one of the two was Miles, that looked briefly like a terrifying combo. Do you understand what structure Jones is building? Presumably not a front 2? In hisstructure, where are the goals expected to come from? - He doesn't really lead the press? Very modern phrase. What does it mean, for the benefit of someone old enough to have seen Derek Hales? If you mean chasing down apparent lost causes, and not giving defenders a moment's rest, maybe you might want to review his debut game against Orient, when he was also required to play up front on his own. - I think you (and @Callumcafc) have a better overview of other team squads and individuals than I. So how do you reckon Huddersfield (and now Birmingham) planned to use this "awkward fit" they've shelled out so much money for?
I'll be completely honest, I'm not that gutted. Harder to bond with players when the team and season in general is so shite. I'd rather have goals from across the team. The only thing that bugs me: surely we could have asked for a higher fee. Read somewhere that Birmingham have a budget of £20m? Surely we could have started at £3m for the league's top scorer. We signed Arose for £500k ffs!
a 31 year old that had never played above this level and you wanted £3m?
£1m is about right IMO.
Yes, because apparently 'we don't need to sell.' And I didn't say take £3m - make that your asking price and bring it down, but end higher than £775k, which is what he was sold for - not £1m. Which is £275k more than we paid for Nicky Ajose.* Unfortunately this is the culture at CAFC - overpay and undersell.
*Having done some research, apparently it was £800k. Good grief.
Even 800k is a decent fee in League One, only players going into the championship really go for more.
Ajose scored 24 in the season before we signed him, so £500k would have been a steal if he replicated that season. He was also much younger at 24/25.
You're completely ignoring inflation and to a lesser extent the point - we have a chronic history of overpaying and underselling. We do not know how to maximise the return on our assets; there has been so much wastage over the years. Apparently we signed Ajose for £800k. How can May be worth less 8 years later? In relative terms it's hideous. Birmingham and Hudds are loaded. We should have exploited that.
Apologies I thought Ajose was £500k.
I agree May should have gone for more than we bought Ajose for 8 years ago.
I'll be completely honest, I'm not that gutted. Harder to bond with players when the team and season in general is so shite. I'd rather have goals from across the team. The only thing that bugs me: surely we could have asked for a higher fee. Read somewhere that Birmingham have a budget of £20m? Surely we could have started at £3m for the league's top scorer. We signed Arose for £500k ffs!
a 31 year old that had never played above this level and you wanted £3m?
£1m is about right IMO.
Yes, because apparently 'we don't need to sell.' And I didn't say take £3m - make that your asking price and bring it down, but end higher than £775k, which is what he was sold for - not £1m. Which is £275k more than we paid for Nicky Ajose.* Unfortunately this is the culture at CAFC - overpay and undersell.
*Having done some research, apparently it was £800k. Good grief.
Even 800k is a decent fee in League One, only players going into the championship really go for more.
Ajose scored 24 in the season before we signed him, so £500k would have been a steal if he replicated that season. He was also much younger at 24/25.
You're completely ignoring inflation and to a lesser extent the point - we have a chronic history of overpaying and underselling. We do not know how to maximise the return on our assets; there has been so much wastage over the years. Apparently we signed Ajose for £800k. How can May be worth less 8 years later? In relative terms it's hideous. Birmingham and Hudds are loaded. We should have exploited that.
Apologies I thought Ajose was £500k.
I agree May should have gone for more than we bought Ajose for 8 years ago.
So did I - I looked it up and almost cried - or maybe more accurately winced in pain - I remember the optimism when we signed him! Well and truly done over by Swindon...
I'm not going to quote your post @PragueAddick because I don't want to clog up the thread but I think one of the issues with CTV and it's pundits is that they've been out of the game for a while. That's not to say they can't add value but that some of what they say can be a bit outdated. I'm sure I'll get pelters for that opinion!
In terms of May, I think one of the big issues NJ had with him was that May often didn't stick to the pressing structure and just ran around and pressed where he wanted. Basically, there was some positional discipline missing. In some systems that is May's biggest strength but under a NJ team it isn't. I suspect this comes from May's non-league career and not playing academy football where this stuff would be drilled in.
Interestingly, my main criticism of Dobson in the past was a similar thing but he adapted under Jones and showed more positional discipline and awareness which shows that a) NJ can coach it and b) Dobson's previous issues were in part due to the players around him.
Obviously, it's a big gamble to let May go. His goal record is undeniable. Our main problem was our defence last season and defence starts from the front, particularly with how NJ sets up. I'm not saying Alfie was the problem by any means but that this could be part of a solution to the problem.
The widely reported reason it didn't work at Southampton for NJ is that the players didn't fully buy into his methods. He is reportedly very demanding in training and needs his players to back him. If May and him have differing views then that's a problem as May is a senior pro. Not sure if it got picked up on the cameras but it was clear towards the end of the season that the two didn't get on, there was a lot of shouting and arm-throwing from May.
If you want to know how NJ thinks about football these two videos are great:
Regardless of the club, gone are the days when you can keep a player who wants to move on.
You get the best price you can, which I think the club have done by turning down Huddersfield’s bid, then make sure you have a replacement lined up ( Godden ).
I certainly won’t criticise the owners on this sale.
I know teams have lost players in the past for family reasons, we lost one because his wife wanted to go to parties. We lost another because the new owner was too stupid to recognise a winner when he saw one, we lost another top striker because of a bad back, yet another to ME (how many other top drawer players can you name who were forced to retire for that reason?). We were relegated because another one refused to play because the season was extended due to covid.
We know there is more to this than just the family thing.
So forgive me if I am feeling mighty pissed off right now, this shit is getting me down.
Those of you swallowing this "wants to be closer to his family" line, please help me understand the following:
- 12 months ago, Alfie May was a Cheltenham player. Where were his family living then? In Cheltenham, or Doncaster? - Didn't he want to be " close to his family" when he agreed to join Charlton? Because wherever they were living, he was going to be fairly far away from them when signing for us. - Didn't he only quite recently buy a house near us? Why would you do that, if your family want to stay in Doncaster and you are on a two year contract?
Well?
Not read all comments so apologies if I am repeating
When he was at Cheltenham the wife and two boys were in Doncaster. When he joined us they all lived together and he loved having his family around him. He joined us and was close to HIS family. They were settled and happy. The new baby came along and it's very difficult to bring up 3 boys under 5 years of age when your husband is away so frequently and she can't call on HER family easily for support. She also missed her friends. The straw that broke the camel's back was getting rejected for each of the 3 schools within walking distance. They kept their house 'oop North so I assume that's where they are now based. Down here they were renting and the house is back on the rental market and has been for at least a fortnight now - thought Alfie's stuff is all still here and he hasn't moved out technically
That's most of the reason but I know he and NJ didn't see eye to eye and this played a part too
In summary it's predominantly a case of a player putting his family first but there are footballing reasons too. Plus he ends up wealthier, we end up with a bit of money to splash so it's just one of those things
We need to flood the governors boards & PTAs of all local schools with Charlton fans to make sure our players kids can get places. Can’t be having this again.
Comments
Ajose scored 24 in the season before we signed him, so £500k would have been a steal if he replicated that season. He was also much younger at 24/25.
@SDAddick
You wrote:
3) What is his best ROLE? Not position, but role? Because he's not quite an on the shoulder of the last man attacker, but he's not a back to goal striker. There's a lot of movement, but not always a lot of outcome from it. He can't play up front on his own. He probably isn't technical enough for a 10. A lot of his goals came from him playing as a 10 or wide right, even if a lot want to forget that.
4) He doesn't really lead the press and he doesn't win the ball back, contrast that with Kanu. And if you can't lead the press and you can't play up front on your own or with your back to goal, you're in an awkward situation where you need to be accommodated for. And he scores enough goals to be accommodated for, but put this together with 3 above and you start to see how he could be an awkward fit in a squad.
5) He's not the most tactically advanced footballer. As a result, there's a lot of running but it's not the most effective running, especially when working the channels.
OK, thanks for that, plenty for me to think about there.
My immediate reaction is, that might be a view through the prism of someone who watches a lot of what we now call elite football, which I rarely do nowadays. But we are not at that level, overall.And then I have some questions:
- he wasn't signed to play up front on his own. It was going to be 3-5-2, wasn't it, and when the other one of the two was Miles, that looked briefly like a terrifying combo. Do you understand what structure Jones is building? Presumably not a front 2? In hisstructure, where are the goals expected to come from?
- He doesn't really lead the press? Very modern phrase. What does it mean, for the benefit of someone old enough to have seen Derek Hales? If you mean chasing down apparent lost causes, and not giving defenders a moment's rest, maybe you might want to review his debut game against Orient, when he was also required to play up front on his own.
- I think you (and @Callumcafc) have a better overview of other team squads and individuals than I. So how do you reckon Huddersfield (and now Birmingham) planned to use this "awkward fit" they've shelled out so much money for?
I agree May should have gone for more than we bought Ajose for 8 years ago.
In terms of May, I think one of the big issues NJ had with him was that May often didn't stick to the pressing structure and just ran around and pressed where he wanted. Basically, there was some positional discipline missing. In some systems that is May's biggest strength but under a NJ team it isn't. I suspect this comes from May's non-league career and not playing academy football where this stuff would be drilled in.
Interestingly, my main criticism of Dobson in the past was a similar thing but he adapted under Jones and showed more positional discipline and awareness which shows that a) NJ can coach it and b) Dobson's previous issues were in part due to the players around him.
Obviously, it's a big gamble to let May go. His goal record is undeniable. Our main problem was our defence last season and defence starts from the front, particularly with how NJ sets up. I'm not saying Alfie was the problem by any means but that this could be part of a solution to the problem.
The widely reported reason it didn't work at Southampton for NJ is that the players didn't fully buy into his methods. He is reportedly very demanding in training and needs his players to back him. If May and him have differing views then that's a problem as May is a senior pro. Not sure if it got picked up on the cameras but it was clear towards the end of the season that the two didn't get on, there was a lot of shouting and arm-throwing from May.
If you want to know how NJ thinks about football these two videos are great:
We know there is more to this than just the family thing.
So forgive me if I am feeling mighty pissed off right now, this shit is getting me down.
When he was at Cheltenham the wife and two boys were in Doncaster. When he joined us they all lived together and he loved having his family around him.
He joined us and was close to HIS family. They were settled and happy. The new baby came along and it's very difficult to bring up 3 boys under 5 years of age when your husband is away so frequently and she can't call on HER family easily for support. She also missed her friends. The straw that broke the camel's back was getting rejected for each of the 3 schools within walking distance. They kept their house 'oop North so I assume that's where they are now based.
Down here they were renting and the house is back on the rental market and has been for at least a fortnight now - thought Alfie's stuff is all still here and he hasn't moved out technically
That's most of the reason but I know he and NJ didn't see eye to eye and this played a part too
In summary it's predominantly a case of a player putting his family first but there are footballing reasons too. Plus he ends up wealthier, we end up with a bit of money to splash so it's just one of those things
Blues Focus on X: "𝗘𝗫𝗖𝗟𝗨𝗦𝗜𝗩𝗘🚨: Details of #BCFC's move for Alfie May emerge: 🔹May was having a medical at #HTAFC on Sunday morning having turned Blues down. 🔹Blues then went back in and offered him double the wages: 16k pw basic Up to 4k pw in bonuses 500k relocation fee" / X
That's just silly money, and he clearly had to take it as his last big pay day contract, 20k per week is huge in his situation...🙄
Another figure of 11k was mentioned, still nice money if true.