If true, however hopeless they might be, can we afford to move Kirk and DJ on unless direct replacements are lined up? In terms of squad depth, McGrandles is more expendable.
Yes we can. They’re not good enough.
They're not good enough BUT at the moment we are down to the bare bones in attack and wing back. If they're fit, Holden will have to use them.
Being brutally honest I’m more concerned about the defence than the attack. I think the attack will sort itself out but I’m worried that our back three / four are looking all over the place. We got away with it against Orient but we won’t against better teams. Hector and Ness in particular look shadows of last season. Early I know but the warning signs are there.
Been saying for a while that you can’t expect to concede 20-30 less goals this season with largely the same defence that we had last season, the same one that conceded 66 goals.
Take Hector out and in terms of actual quality, we very much lack any. We have young players who have done well in the main, some completely new to men’s first team football, but that’s not enough or good enough to make the difference required.
Last two times we got out of League One, we had Morrison, Taylor, and Cort when we won the league and then Bauer, Pearce, Sarr, and Bielik in defence covering at times through play-offs.
Thats the standard you need to get out this league.
We have recruited well so far and we will bring in more players. It would be all for nothing if we do not sign another quality centre back because it’s the defence that will let us down this season if we don’t achieve what we all want and hope for.
I agree we need a couple more defenders in but also disagree that our defence is THAT bad. This isn’t the defence that finished 10th, we had Lavelle or O’Connell partnering Inniss for the first half of the season (with Chin and Clayden at left back sometimes!). Once Ness and Hector came into it in the second half of the season we were the 8th best team in league 1. Combine that with a weaker league and I don’t think we are very far off a top 6 side already. Leaburn and May are one of the best frontlines in the league (yes we need other options), our midfield is one of the best in the league, defence is the weak point at the moment but I don’t think it’s far off.
A left footed centre back would be great, but these are difficult to find and overpriced because of their value to any team playing 3 at the back. This should have been a priority position this summer but it might be that there isn’t anyone good enough that we can sign that fits the mould. Hopefully there is a PL loan left footed CB that we can bring in, but even then that’s quite risky bringing in a centre back who hasn’t played much senior football
It's interesting how quickly people have turned on Ness. He was a real breakthrough last season playing at LCB alongside Inniss and Hector and we were all really happy with him. Then he got injured and had a couple of slightly ropey pre-season games and he's not really being considered as a good player anymore. He's only 21 and he looked a real prospect last season. I think I'd include him in the list of decent defenders we have going forward rather than piling him in with the worst of last season's dross
He's a good defender. He just happened to have more unchallenged possession than the rest of our team combined against Orient, and he was clearly deeply uncomfortable with the situation
So good under pressure. All we have to do is make sure our midfielders make themselves available a bit quicker and we’ve cracked it.
I like Ness, but on Saturday the problem wasn’t a lack of midfielders giving options or making runs. He was just wasn’t seeing them or for whatever reason choosing to hold onto it until the only option was a hopeful long ball.
Anyone else hearing that Fraser could be out for a few weeks & Campbell 2 months. Probably just Facebook/Twitter rumours but if true we really do need to strengthen our attacking options.
We need someone to compete with Fraser even when he's fit.
Leaving him on the pitch last Saturday when he was clearly crocked was a bizarre decision.
We had used our subs opportunity quota, and we nearly got a 2nd when keeper spilled his shot.
Being brutally honest I’m more concerned about the defence than the attack. I think the attack will sort itself out but I’m worried that our back three / four are looking all over the place. We got away with it against Orient but we won’t against better teams. Hector and Ness in particular look shadows of last season. Early I know but the warning signs are there.
Been saying for a while that you can’t expect to concede 20-30 less goals this season with largely the same defence that we had last season, the same one that conceded 66 goals.
Take Hector out and in terms of actual quality, we very much lack any. We have young players who have done well in the main, some completely new to men’s first team football, but that’s not enough or good enough to make the difference required.
Last two times we got out of League One, we had Morrison, Taylor, and Cort when we won the league and then Bauer, Pearce, Sarr, and Bielik in defence covering at times through play-offs.
Thats the standard you need to get out this league.
We have recruited well so far and we will bring in more players. It would be all for nothing if we do not sign another quality centre back because it’s the defence that will let us down this season if we don’t achieve what we all want and hope for.
I agree we need a couple more defenders in but also disagree that our defence is THAT bad. This isn’t the defence that finished 10th, we had Lavelle or O’Connell partnering Inniss for the first half of the season (with Chin and Clayden at left back sometimes!). Once Ness and Hector came into it in the second half of the season we were the 8th best team in league 1. Combine that with a weaker league and I don’t think we are very far off a top 6 side already. Leaburn and May are one of the best frontlines in the league (yes we need other options), our midfield is one of the best in the league, defence is the weak point at the moment but I don’t think it’s far off.
A left footed centre back would be great, but these are difficult to find and overpriced because of their value to any team playing 3 at the back. This should have been a priority position this summer but it might be that there isn’t anyone good enough that we can sign that fits the mould. Hopefully there is a PL loan left footed CB that we can bring in, but even then that’s quite risky bringing in a centre back who hasn’t played much senior football
It's interesting how quickly people have turned on Ness. He was a real breakthrough last season playing at LCB alongside Inniss and Hector and we were all really happy with him. Then he got injured and had a couple of slightly ropey pre-season games and he's not really being considered as a good player anymore. He's only 21 and he looked a real prospect last season. I think I'd include him in the list of decent defenders we have going forward rather than piling him in with the worst of last season's dross
He's a good defender. He just happened to have more unchallenged possession than the rest of our team combined against Orient, and he was clearly deeply uncomfortable with the situation
So good under pressure. All we have to do is make sure our midfielders make themselves available a bit quicker and we’ve cracked it.
I like Ness, but on Saturday the problem wasn’t a lack of midfielders giving options or making runs. He was just wasn’t seeing them or for whatever reason choosing to hold onto it until the only option was a hopeful long ball.
It was fairly obvious Ness had been asked to play those long balls over the top for May to try to get in behind, however we were hampered a lot by the wet surface making them run on too quick.
I don't think we can blame Ness for that, he has been asked to do something he may not be that comfortable doing and also the conditions made it very difficult to get right.
Being brutally honest I’m more concerned about the defence than the attack. I think the attack will sort itself out but I’m worried that our back three / four are looking all over the place. We got away with it against Orient but we won’t against better teams. Hector and Ness in particular look shadows of last season. Early I know but the warning signs are there.
Been saying for a while that you can’t expect to concede 20-30 less goals this season with largely the same defence that we had last season, the same one that conceded 66 goals.
Take Hector out and in terms of actual quality, we very much lack any. We have young players who have done well in the main, some completely new to men’s first team football, but that’s not enough or good enough to make the difference required.
Last two times we got out of League One, we had Morrison, Taylor, and Cort when we won the league and then Bauer, Pearce, Sarr, and Bielik in defence covering at times through play-offs.
Thats the standard you need to get out this league.
We have recruited well so far and we will bring in more players. It would be all for nothing if we do not sign another quality centre back because it’s the defence that will let us down this season if we don’t achieve what we all want and hope for.
I agree we need a couple more defenders in but also disagree that our defence is THAT bad. This isn’t the defence that finished 10th, we had Lavelle or O’Connell partnering Inniss for the first half of the season (with Chin and Clayden at left back sometimes!). Once Ness and Hector came into it in the second half of the season we were the 8th best team in league 1. Combine that with a weaker league and I don’t think we are very far off a top 6 side already. Leaburn and May are one of the best frontlines in the league (yes we need other options), our midfield is one of the best in the league, defence is the weak point at the moment but I don’t think it’s far off.
A left footed centre back would be great, but these are difficult to find and overpriced because of their value to any team playing 3 at the back. This should have been a priority position this summer but it might be that there isn’t anyone good enough that we can sign that fits the mould. Hopefully there is a PL loan left footed CB that we can bring in, but even then that’s quite risky bringing in a centre back who hasn’t played much senior football
It's interesting how quickly people have turned on Ness. He was a real breakthrough last season playing at LCB alongside Inniss and Hector and we were all really happy with him. Then he got injured and had a couple of slightly ropey pre-season games and he's not really being considered as a good player anymore. He's only 21 and he looked a real prospect last season. I think I'd include him in the list of decent defenders we have going forward rather than piling him in with the worst of last season's dross
He's a good defender. He just happened to have more unchallenged possession than the rest of our team combined against Orient, and he was clearly deeply uncomfortable with the situation
So good under pressure. All we have to do is make sure our midfielders make themselves available a bit quicker and we’ve cracked it.
I like Ness, but on Saturday the problem wasn’t a lack of midfielders giving options or making runs. He was just wasn’t seeing them or for whatever reason choosing to hold onto it until the only option was a hopeful long ball.
It was fairly obvious Ness had been asked to play those long balls over the top for May to try to get in behind, however we were hampered a lot by the wet surface making them run on too quick.
I don't think we can blame Ness for that, he has been asked to do something he may not be that comfortable doing and also the conditions made it very difficult to get right.
Will be more effective against a better side like Peterborough who will probably play a higher line than Orient did. Would probably prefer Hector to be the one playing those passes though
I agree. It isn't to say Ness is rubbish because he clearly isn't but I think our best three CBs at this moment and for this game is Thomas, Hector and Jones. I fear for Ness a bit against a team like Posh.
Anyone else hearing that Fraser could be out for a few weeks & Campbell 2 months. Probably just Facebook/Twitter rumours but if true we really do need to strengthen our attacking options.
FFS.
Did anybody see exactly what happened to cause Fraser’s injury? Holden, or maybe just Louis M, implied it was from a challenge but the stream didnt show anything. First we knew was a close up of him sitting on the ground seeking help, and Terry saying it looks like he needs to go off. I’m asking because that might indicate an injury that better fitness/preparation might have avoided. I’ve always had a suspicion about Fraser’s overall fitness. Maybe unfair, caused by playing Sunday league footie with Scottish mates with a lot of talent and bad dietary habits 😉
I don't think Holden can be criticised for keeping him on the pitch, seeing as it was an important game and a draw or defeat would have been a massive blow and normaly you get away with it. Mind you, we never seem to get away with anything when it comes to injuries.
I don't think Holden can be criticised for keeping him on the pitch, seeing as it was an important game and a draw or defeat would have been a massive blow and normaly you get away with it. Mind you, we never seem to get away with anything when it comes to injuries.
My criticism is that he didn't use the earlier sub windows well.
Had he taken Anderson and Jones off at the same time he could have replaced Fraser.
Anyone else hearing that Fraser could be out for a few weeks & Campbell 2 months. Probably just Facebook/Twitter rumours but if true we really do need to strengthen our attacking options.
FFS.
Did anybody see exactly what happened to cause Fraser’s injury? Holden, or maybe just Louis M, implied it was from a challenge but the stream didnt show anything. First we knew was a close up of him sitting on the ground seeking help, and Terry saying it looks like he needs to go off. I’m asking because that might indicate an injury that better fitness/preparation might have avoided. I’ve always had a suspicion about Fraser’s overall fitness. Maybe unfair, caused by playing Sunday league footie with Scottish mates with a lot of talent and bad dietary habits 😉
What a sad indictment of where we are, with talk of "down to the bare bones" and only just into match two, won't say again what we need, we all know that, but maybe a swift kick up the arse might be useful...surely the SMT will wake up soon...😴😴😴😴
What a sad indictment of where we are, with talk of "down to the bare bones" and only just into match two, won't say again what we need, we all know that, but maybe a swift kick up the arse might be useful...surely the SMT will wake up soon...😴😴😴😴
couldn't have said it better myself. Although May and co are good signings, when people are getting ahead of themselves with HMS piss the league, i got pelters on twitter for saying slow down, we are nowhere near a top 6 team, let alone top 3. Yes May is a good signing, but we need 4/5/6 good signings.
Can we really call Taylor and Jones good signings yet? do we know much about them? Let's remember DJ was Swindon's stand out player in this division, Kirk arguably Crewe's, Gilbey was MK Dons and a 2x POTY for them. I always judge them on what they do for us, I couldn't really give 2 shits about there past somewhere else, deliver here. Isted and Camara look great as do the others on paper, but let's see what they deliver. I suggest anyone who calls this out, go back to page 1 of the Kirk thread and see how delighted we were when we got him, look at us now. That is all i am saying.
The cynic in me says the new owners will come in, make one or two good signings to win the fans over, and then cut costs on the rest.
With the amount of youth products we have taking up squad player places, there should be an abundance of budget, really.
But they deserve a chance and I'm not gonna moan until the window closes. We're also still far better off at this moment than we have been in previous years.
What a sad indictment of where we are, with talk of "down to the bare bones" and only just into match two, won't say again what we need, we all know that, but maybe a swift kick up the arse might be useful...surely the SMT will wake up soon...😴😴😴😴
couldn't have said it better myself. Although May and co are good signings, when people are getting ahead of themselves with HMS piss the league, i got pelters on twitter for saying slow down, we are nowhere near a top 6 team, let alone top 3. Yes May is a good signing, but we need 4/5/6 good signings.
Can we really call Taylor and Jones good signings yet? do we know much about them? Let's remember DJ was Swindon's stand out player in this division, Kirk arguably Crewe's, Gilbey was MK Dons and a 2x POTY for them. I always judge them on what they do for us, I couldn't really give 2 shits about there past somewhere else, deliver here. Isted and Camara look great as do the others on paper, but let's see what they deliver. I suggest anyone who calls this out, go back to page 1 of the Kirk thread and see how delighted we were when we got him, look at us now. That is all i am saying.
Also it seems it requires 2 to 4 windows to get a team under new ownership where it needs to be. So surely expecting miracles to see automatic promotion this season and therefore extremely unlikely.
I don't think Holden can be criticised for keeping him on the pitch, seeing as it was an important game and a draw or defeat would have been a massive blow and normaly you get away with it. Mind you, we never seem to get away with anything when it comes to injuries.
My criticism is that he didn't use the earlier sub windows well.
Had he taken Anderson and Jones off at the same time he could have replaced Fraser.
It's not hindsight.
I made the point at the time.
It was clear that Anderson / Camara and Jones / Hector were both planned substitutions as none of them could be risked for the full 90 minutes. There was only five minutes between the changes and they both would have been switched in that timeframe.
It is in this context that I would always leave a space open late in the game for emergencies which Fraser's injury was.
What a sad indictment of where we are, with talk of "down to the bare bones" and only just into match two, won't say again what we need, we all know that, but maybe a swift kick up the arse might be useful...surely the SMT will wake up soon...😴😴😴😴
couldn't have said it better myself. Although May and co are good signings, when people are getting ahead of themselves with HMS piss the league, i got pelters on twitter for saying slow down, we are nowhere near a top 6 team, let alone top 3. Yes May is a good signing, but we need 4/5/6 good signings.
Can we really call Taylor and Jones good signings yet? do we know much about them? Let's remember DJ was Swindon's stand out player in this division, Kirk arguably Crewe's, Gilbey was MK Dons and a 2x POTY for them. I always judge them on what they do for us, I couldn't really give 2 shits about there past somewhere else, deliver here. Isted and Camara look great as do the others on paper, but let's see what they deliver. I suggest anyone who calls this out, go back to page 1 of the Kirk thread and see how delighted we were when we got him, look at us now. That is all i am saying.
Also it seems it requires 2 to 4 windows to get a team under new ownership where it needs to be. So surely expecting miracles to see automatic promotion this season and therefore extremely unlikely.
it's not unheard of, didn't we do it before in one in 2011? I want to say Wolves also but i may have that slightly wrong. Sunderland recently did it. so it's not beyond the realms of possibility. We are IMO 3 quality players away from a top 5 team, we need 6 in total however, again IMO. I'd bin Kirk, DJ, McGrandles & Payne, I'd personally keep Egbo, but it seems DH don't like him so he needs replacing. So for me a RWB, CB, CM/CAM and Striker are the main for me, a winger would be good, but if we are playing 3-5-2 then do we really need an attacking winger? surely not but one who can cover both the RWB and RW roles if we switch to a 4-3-3.
The cynic in me says the new owners will come in, make one or two good signings to win the fans over, and then cut costs on the rest.
With the amount of youth products we have taking up squad player places, there should be an abundance of budget, really.
But they deserve a chance and I'm not gonna moan until the window closes. We're also still far better off at this moment than we have been in previous years.
If your first sentence is correct and I’m not saying it isn’t then we stay in league one and every season they put good money after bad. You’d have to be pretty thick to think it’s the way to achieving success. Time will tell.
Being brutally honest I’m more concerned about the defence than the attack. I think the attack will sort itself out but I’m worried that our back three / four are looking all over the place. We got away with it against Orient but we won’t against better teams. Hector and Ness in particular look shadows of last season. Early I know but the warning signs are there.
Been saying for a while that you can’t expect to concede 20-30 less goals this season with largely the same defence that we had last season, the same one that conceded 66 goals.
Take Hector out and in terms of actual quality, we very much lack any. We have young players who have done well in the main, some completely new to men’s first team football, but that’s not enough or good enough to make the difference required.
Last two times we got out of League One, we had Morrison, Taylor, and Cort when we won the league and then Bauer, Pearce, Sarr, and Bielik in defence covering at times through play-offs.
Thats the standard you need to get out this league.
We have recruited well so far and we will bring in more players. It would be all for nothing if we do not sign another quality centre back because it’s the defence that will let us down this season if we don’t achieve what we all want and hope for.
I agree we need a couple more defenders in but also disagree that our defence is THAT bad. This isn’t the defence that finished 10th, we had Lavelle or O’Connell partnering Inniss for the first half of the season (with Chin and Clayden at left back sometimes!). Once Ness and Hector came into it in the second half of the season we were the 8th best team in league 1. Combine that with a weaker league and I don’t think we are very far off a top 6 side already. Leaburn and May are one of the best frontlines in the league (yes we need other options), our midfield is one of the best in the league, defence is the weak point at the moment but I don’t think it’s far off.
A left footed centre back would be great, but these are difficult to find and overpriced because of their value to any team playing 3 at the back. This should have been a priority position this summer but it might be that there isn’t anyone good enough that we can sign that fits the mould. Hopefully there is a PL loan left footed CB that we can bring in, but even then that’s quite risky bringing in a centre back who hasn’t played much senior football
It's interesting how quickly people have turned on Ness. He was a real breakthrough last season playing at LCB alongside Inniss and Hector and we were all really happy with him. Then he got injured and had a couple of slightly ropey pre-season games and he's not really being considered as a good player anymore. He's only 21 and he looked a real prospect last season. I think I'd include him in the list of decent defenders we have going forward rather than piling him in with the worst of last season's dross
He's a good defender. He just happened to have more unchallenged possession than the rest of our team combined against Orient, and he was clearly deeply uncomfortable with the situation
So good under pressure. All we have to do is make sure our midfielders make themselves available a bit quicker and we’ve cracked it.
I like Ness, but on Saturday the problem wasn’t a lack of midfielders giving options or making runs. He was just wasn’t seeing them or for whatever reason choosing to hold onto it until the only option was a hopeful long ball.
It was fairly obvious Ness had been asked to play those long balls over the top for May to try to get in behind, however we were hampered a lot by the wet surface making them run on too quick.
I don't think we can blame Ness for that, he has been asked to do something he may not be that comfortable doing and also the conditions made it very difficult to get right.
Yeah I agree! Also think will potentially be a different story when a Leaburn or similar is up with May
The cynic in me says the new owners will come in, make one or two good signings to win the fans over, and then cut costs on the rest.
With the amount of youth products we have taking up squad player places, there should be an abundance of budget, really.
But they deserve a chance and I'm not gonna moan until the window closes. We're also still far better off at this moment than we have been in previous years.
If your first sentence is correct and I’m not saying it isn’t then we stay in league one and every season they put good money after bad. You’d have to be pretty thick to think it’s the way to achieving success. Time will tell.
But haven't we made similar reasoning about our previous owners?
Would not be unusual for ownership to defy sense and logic
What a sad indictment of where we are, with talk of "down to the bare bones" and only just into match two, won't say again what we need, we all know that, but maybe a swift kick up the arse might be useful...surely the SMT will wake up soon...😴😴😴😴
Early days if course, but it's the same old shit ain't it?
Hoping rather than expecting a result at Posh, lack of depth, "unlucky" with injuries... Same old same old.
I don't think Holden can be criticised for keeping him on the pitch, seeing as it was an important game and a draw or defeat would have been a massive blow and normaly you get away with it. Mind you, we never seem to get away with anything when it comes to injuries.
My criticism is that he didn't use the earlier sub windows well.
Had he taken Anderson and Jones off at the same time he could have replaced Fraser.
That is probably fair as an injury was always possible.
Comments
I don't think we can blame Ness for that, he has been asked to do something he may not be that comfortable doing and also the conditions made it very difficult to get right.
Did anybody see exactly what happened to cause Fraser’s injury? Holden, or maybe just Louis M, implied it was from a challenge but the stream didnt show anything. First we knew was a close up of him sitting on the ground seeking help, and Terry saying it looks like he needs to go off. I’m asking because that might indicate an injury that better fitness/preparation might have avoided. I’ve always had a suspicion about Fraser’s overall fitness. Maybe unfair, caused by playing Sunday league footie with Scottish mates with a lot of talent and bad dietary habits 😉
Had he taken Anderson and Jones off at the same time he could have replaced Fraser.
Can we really call Taylor and Jones good signings yet? do we know much about them? Let's remember DJ was Swindon's stand out player in this division, Kirk arguably Crewe's, Gilbey was MK Dons and a 2x POTY for them. I always judge them on what they do for us, I couldn't really give 2 shits about there past somewhere else, deliver here. Isted and Camara look great as do the others on paper, but let's see what they deliver. I suggest anyone who calls this out, go back to page 1 of the Kirk thread and see how delighted we were when we got him, look at us now. That is all i am saying.
With the amount of youth products we have taking up squad player places, there should be an abundance of budget, really.
But they deserve a chance and I'm not gonna moan until the window closes. We're also still far better off at this moment than we have been in previous years.
Would not be unusual for ownership to defy sense and logic
Hoping rather than expecting a result at Posh, lack of depth, "unlucky" with injuries... Same old same old.
C'mon Charlton.
😉
Dobson
Camara
Fraser
Anderson
Taylor
McGrandles
Payne
In no way, shape or form are we "down to the bare bones" if Fraser is injured.
There's plenty of real actual issues to complain/worry about, why do people continue to feel the need to manufacture faux drama all the poxy time?