Summer Transfer Rumours - Deadline Day p446

mendonca

The May rumours continue!

ValleyGary

Doncaster?!

Garrymanilow

cafc_se7 said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but I can’t believe the debate on Dobbo has gone as far as this….have we forgotten about all the other players below him in the pecking order? How are the likes of Fraser, Payne etc shirking this level of analysis?

That's not the question though. It isn't whether Dobson is better or worse than Payne or anyone else in our squad, it's whether a player with Dobson's attributes is right for a team trying to achieve what we are. We're the only team with serious ambitions towards promotion who employ a player who provides tackles, tackles, tackles but not a lot else creatively. It's an interesting idea; do you get rid of one of your best players in pursuit of a different style if it will make the whole better? If you do you have to make sure you get everything around it right; Garner wasn't going to play him but the players he was given were so average we weren't able to live without him because all the massive holes were Dobson shaped. Historically we're not great at that, but then are we always going to be doomed to be on the back foot against decent teams because we can't ever move on from having a party smasher in the middle? That's the debate. No-one I've seen has come up with the idea that Dobson is bad, it's a style of play question. It's like using a hammer when you need a screwdriver but pointing out that it's a really good hammer so you don't want to stop using it.

Rothko

ha, the geography there is interesting, didn't realise the Cotswolds had move to the south Yorkshire dales

Garrymanilow

sam3110 said:

Campbell now wearing the 20 and Leaburn is wearing 11 in the pictures.

I think almost all the traditional first XI numbers are available this season, aren't they? Especially if Thomas and Hector don't re-sign.

Is Dobbo is the only player registered with a single digit number from last season? 

Grumble..

Cafc43v3r

Garrymanilow said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Leuth said:

This smacks of Andrew Crofts all over again. Him and Foley, best midfield ever 

Or does it smack of Andy Hughes all over again?

What we haven't had, since the ESI window is a clear idea on what we are trying to achieve.  It's been a squad designed by committee with no thought about how the pieces fit together.

If Holden has a plan, and the freedom to execute it, and wants/needs a player like Tunnicliffe to make it work brilliant.  

I think a lot of whether these 'experience' transfers work depends on the quality and fitness of the first choice player ahead of them in that position. People tend to misremember Andy Hughes a bit; he started 5 games for us. We won them all and he was good, though we did luckily play some weaker teams and we went to pieces towards the end of a couple of them as he tired. Other than that he made 7 sub appearances, and only two of those were for more than 5 minutes. Four of them were for 1 minute. His last appearance for us was at the start of January (1 minute) and then after that he only made the squad twice and didn't come on either time. He was initially brought in as cover at right back but we never played him there, and once we played Wiggins there rather than put him in when Solly was absent. We remember him fondly though because he filled in briefly until we could get an emergency loan and that was why he was there. There's a reason we brought in Russell when we could though and there's a reason Hughes didn't get into the squad once Stephens was back.

Compare that to Crofts, Watson and the rest though; Crofts played 45 out of 46 league games, Watson played a devastating 29 L1 games in one season and Pratley played 111 games for us despite being brought in as a backup in his first season with us in L1. Foley played a similar number of games to Hughes. He was a decent RB but not in any way a midfielder. Despite that he made 10 appearances in midfield and only 4 at RB, and had nearly double the minutes Hughes did overall. In all these cases there should have been someone ahead of these players so their experience could be used but not their actual footballing ability, but instead of bringing them in to top up a decent 11 they were brought in to make sure we could put 11 on the pitch, or the peson we planned to put in ahead of them was so bad/crippled we didn't have a choice. I think if Andy Hughes had played 30 games for us in 11/12 we'd have a different memory of him, and I'm glad that's not the case.

The comparison with Hughes was more the positive effect he had on the rest which most of the other senior pros didn't have.

My main memory of him was him "warming up" but actually coaching and encouraging from the sidelines.  We haven't had that sort of character for a long time. 

LTKapal

Rothko said:

ha, the geography there is interesting, didn't realise the Cotswolds had move to the south Yorkshire dales

Implication is probably settled there and moved family there whilst playing for Doncaster, it’s still a load of shite though.

seth plum

Could we get a bit of bunce out of Doncaster by selling them one of our Alfie May medical reports?
Might be the start of a lucrative side hustle Mr Rodwell.

Leuth

Cafc43v3r said:

Garrymanilow said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Leuth said:

This smacks of Andrew Crofts all over again. Him and Foley, best midfield ever 

Or does it smack of Andy Hughes all over again?

What we haven't had, since the ESI window is a clear idea on what we are trying to achieve.  It's been a squad designed by committee with no thought about how the pieces fit together.

If Holden has a plan, and the freedom to execute it, and wants/needs a player like Tunnicliffe to make it work brilliant.  

I think a lot of whether these 'experience' transfers work depends on the quality and fitness of the first choice player ahead of them in that position. People tend to misremember Andy Hughes a bit; he started 5 games for us. We won them all and he was good, though we did luckily play some weaker teams and we went to pieces towards the end of a couple of them as he tired. Other than that he made 7 sub appearances, and only two of those were for more than 5 minutes. Four of them were for 1 minute. His last appearance for us was at the start of January (1 minute) and then after that he only made the squad twice and didn't come on either time. He was initially brought in as cover at right back but we never played him there, and once we played Wiggins there rather than put him in when Solly was absent. We remember him fondly though because he filled in briefly until we could get an emergency loan and that was why he was there. There's a reason we brought in Russell when we could though and there's a reason Hughes didn't get into the squad once Stephens was back.

Compare that to Crofts, Watson and the rest though; Crofts played 45 out of 46 league games, Watson played a devastating 29 L1 games in one season and Pratley played 111 games for us despite being brought in as a backup in his first season with us in L1. Foley played a similar number of games to Hughes. He was a decent RB but not in any way a midfielder. Despite that he made 10 appearances in midfield and only 4 at RB, and had nearly double the minutes Hughes did overall. In all these cases there should have been someone ahead of these players so their experience could be used but not their actual footballing ability, but instead of bringing them in to top up a decent 11 they were brought in to make sure we could put 11 on the pitch, or the peson we planned to put in ahead of them was so bad/crippled we didn't have a choice. I think if Andy Hughes had played 30 games for us in 11/12 we'd have a different memory of him, and I'm glad that's not the case.

The comparison with Hughes was more the positive effect he had on the rest which most of the other senior pros didn't have.

My main memory of him was him "warming up" but actually coaching and encouraging from the sidelines.  We haven't had that sort of character for a long time. 

Yeah, but at some point you need midfielders who can actually consistently run a game, something we haven't had since Conor Gallagher (Fraser on a really good day, but not consistently enough)

sillav nitram

Garrymanilow said:

sam3110 said:

Campbell now wearing the 20 and Leaburn is wearing 11 in the pictures.

I think almost all the traditional first XI numbers are available this season, aren't they? Especially if Thomas and Hector don't re-sign.

Is Dobbo is the only player registered with a single digit number from last season? 

Grumble..

MacGrumble, I think you mean?

charlton_hero

ValleyGary said:

Doncaster?!

Derby have supposedly bid, Derby is closer to Doncaster. That's how I read it. 

Cafc43v3r

Leuth said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Garrymanilow said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Leuth said:

This smacks of Andrew Crofts all over again. Him and Foley, best midfield ever 

Or does it smack of Andy Hughes all over again?

What we haven't had, since the ESI window is a clear idea on what we are trying to achieve.  It's been a squad designed by committee with no thought about how the pieces fit together.

If Holden has a plan, and the freedom to execute it, and wants/needs a player like Tunnicliffe to make it work brilliant.  

I think a lot of whether these 'experience' transfers work depends on the quality and fitness of the first choice player ahead of them in that position. People tend to misremember Andy Hughes a bit; he started 5 games for us. We won them all and he was good, though we did luckily play some weaker teams and we went to pieces towards the end of a couple of them as he tired. Other than that he made 7 sub appearances, and only two of those were for more than 5 minutes. Four of them were for 1 minute. His last appearance for us was at the start of January (1 minute) and then after that he only made the squad twice and didn't come on either time. He was initially brought in as cover at right back but we never played him there, and once we played Wiggins there rather than put him in when Solly was absent. We remember him fondly though because he filled in briefly until we could get an emergency loan and that was why he was there. There's a reason we brought in Russell when we could though and there's a reason Hughes didn't get into the squad once Stephens was back.

Compare that to Crofts, Watson and the rest though; Crofts played 45 out of 46 league games, Watson played a devastating 29 L1 games in one season and Pratley played 111 games for us despite being brought in as a backup in his first season with us in L1. Foley played a similar number of games to Hughes. He was a decent RB but not in any way a midfielder. Despite that he made 10 appearances in midfield and only 4 at RB, and had nearly double the minutes Hughes did overall. In all these cases there should have been someone ahead of these players so their experience could be used but not their actual footballing ability, but instead of bringing them in to top up a decent 11 they were brought in to make sure we could put 11 on the pitch, or the peson we planned to put in ahead of them was so bad/crippled we didn't have a choice. I think if Andy Hughes had played 30 games for us in 11/12 we'd have a different memory of him, and I'm glad that's not the case.

The comparison with Hughes was more the positive effect he had on the rest which most of the other senior pros didn't have.

My main memory of him was him "warming up" but actually coaching and encouraging from the sidelines.  We haven't had that sort of character for a long time. 

Yeah, but at some point you need midfielders who can actually consistently run a game, something we haven't had since Conor Gallagher (Fraser on a really good day, but not consistently enough)

We obviously do but we also need a lot of things everywhere. 

You need the right shaped pieces to fill the right holes  the order you get them in isn't so important, as long as you do get them.

The important thing is we have the players that can contribute to Holden's plan, even if its not a leading role. 

NabySarr

sam3110 said:

Campbell now wearing the 20 and Leaburn is wearing 11 in the pictures.

I think almost all the traditional first XI numbers are available this season, aren't they? Especially if Thomas and Hector don't re-sign.

Is Dobbo is the only player registered with a single digit number from last season? 

Jaiyesimi was 7 I think? Aneke might want the 10 back now Morgan has left 

iaitch

charlton_hero said:

ValleyGary said:

Doncaster?!

Derby have supposedly bid, Derby is closer to Doncaster. That's how I read it. 

Maybe we could borrow Dale Stephen's road map book and convince him Charlton is nearer? 

Brownie12

NabySarr said:

sam3110 said:

Campbell now wearing the 20 and Leaburn is wearing 11 in the pictures.

I think almost all the traditional first XI numbers are available this season, aren't they? Especially if Thomas and Hector don't re-sign.

Is Dobbo is the only player registered with a single digit number from last season? 

Jaiyesimi was 7 I think? Aneke might want the 10 back now Morgan has left 

He should def wear 10 as it will mark the number of minutes he manages before getting injured again. 

eastterrace6168

Didn't want May anyway...did we...🙄

nagAddick

ButtleJR said:

https://twitter.com/TheRambler84/status/1673314396020277250?t=UzZqpQOAH87864SuhstIIA&s=19

That Cheltenham journo Jon Palmer said that is not true 

thenewbie

Leuth said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Garrymanilow said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Leuth said:

This smacks of Andrew Crofts all over again. Him and Foley, best midfield ever 

Or does it smack of Andy Hughes all over again?

What we haven't had, since the ESI window is a clear idea on what we are trying to achieve.  It's been a squad designed by committee with no thought about how the pieces fit together.

If Holden has a plan, and the freedom to execute it, and wants/needs a player like Tunnicliffe to make it work brilliant.  

I think a lot of whether these 'experience' transfers work depends on the quality and fitness of the first choice player ahead of them in that position. People tend to misremember Andy Hughes a bit; he started 5 games for us. We won them all and he was good, though we did luckily play some weaker teams and we went to pieces towards the end of a couple of them as he tired. Other than that he made 7 sub appearances, and only two of those were for more than 5 minutes. Four of them were for 1 minute. His last appearance for us was at the start of January (1 minute) and then after that he only made the squad twice and didn't come on either time. He was initially brought in as cover at right back but we never played him there, and once we played Wiggins there rather than put him in when Solly was absent. We remember him fondly though because he filled in briefly until we could get an emergency loan and that was why he was there. There's a reason we brought in Russell when we could though and there's a reason Hughes didn't get into the squad once Stephens was back.

Compare that to Crofts, Watson and the rest though; Crofts played 45 out of 46 league games, Watson played a devastating 29 L1 games in one season and Pratley played 111 games for us despite being brought in as a backup in his first season with us in L1. Foley played a similar number of games to Hughes. He was a decent RB but not in any way a midfielder. Despite that he made 10 appearances in midfield and only 4 at RB, and had nearly double the minutes Hughes did overall. In all these cases there should have been someone ahead of these players so their experience could be used but not their actual footballing ability, but instead of bringing them in to top up a decent 11 they were brought in to make sure we could put 11 on the pitch, or the peson we planned to put in ahead of them was so bad/crippled we didn't have a choice. I think if Andy Hughes had played 30 games for us in 11/12 we'd have a different memory of him, and I'm glad that's not the case.

The comparison with Hughes was more the positive effect he had on the rest which most of the other senior pros didn't have.

My main memory of him was him "warming up" but actually coaching and encouraging from the sidelines.  We haven't had that sort of character for a long time. 

Yeah, but at some point you need midfielders who can actually consistently run a game, something we haven't had since Conor Gallagher (Fraser on a really good day, but not consistently enough)

Well the Lincoln/Cambridge mode McGrandles would probably tick that box if we can get him playing like that for us.

One thing I don't think we've had for a while is that properly iconic talisman on the pitch, where Powell had Kermorgant, then Jackson took the role, that player who is just more than just another player.

It can be any position on the pitch really but we need to find a way to get fans to actually connect with the team again IMO.

fenaddick

https://www.bristolworld.com/sport/football/bristol-rovers/bristol-rovers-derby-charlton-and-oxford-utd-keep-tabs-on-portsmouth-transfer-target-4196518

cafcsinger

I feel like some people will still be using the Andy Hughes example of why signing someone relatively old can be good. Not to say he didn't help, but we would have got promoted anyway either way had we signed him imo. 

ForeverAddickted

fenaddick said:

https://www.bristolworld.com/sport/football/bristol-rovers/bristol-rovers-derby-charlton-and-oxford-utd-keep-tabs-on-portsmouth-transfer-target-4196518

Wouldnt complain if we signed Gavin Whyte, be surprised if he didnt end back @ Oxford or Portsmouth

Given his connections with the former, and Mousinho at the latter

Dazzler21

MartinCAFC said:

Conor McGrandles on that list too. Really do think he needs to be given another chance.

Given we no longer have Morgan, I can only assume it's McGrandles vs Henry

Cafc43v3r

cafcsinger said:

I feel like some people will still be using the Andy Hughes example of why signing someone relatively old can be good. Not to say he didn't help, but we would have got promoted anyway either way had we signed him imo. 

You could probably say the same about 15 or 16 of the players that played that season but you need a squad and the different mix of peoples strengths and character.  That's why that side was better than the sum of its parts and the parts were bloody good.

Rothko

Hughes was massive for us in that mid season run, think Stephens was out injured, and I remember Hollands and Hughes absolutely ripping Preston apart at home 

FSLN1

The midfielder we need is a box to box player who can do a bit of the defensive midfield graft when necessary and be a number 8 when we are attacking. 

Is Ryan Tunnicliffe that kind of player?

Regarding Dobbo, he had a good season - for around three quarters of it, he definitely looked a bit knackered towards the end which coincided with his wife giving birth. 

MarcusH26

ForeverAddickted said:

fenaddick said:

https://www.bristolworld.com/sport/football/bristol-rovers/bristol-rovers-derby-charlton-and-oxford-utd-keep-tabs-on-portsmouth-transfer-target-4196518

Wouldnt complain if we signed Gavin Whyte, be surprised if he didnt end back @ Oxford or Portsmouth

Given his connections with the former, and Mousinho at the latter

Whyte would be a great addition but I think it's Oxford he'll end up back at , would fit Manning's style of play. Pompey obviously signed Scully and have Paddy Lane they signed in Jan from Fleetwood , Ronan Curtis is out of contract but coming back from an ACL tear so could see Whyte as a replacement for Curtis if he doesn't sign. 

Jack_Charlton

Friend of mine said we are interested in Paris Maghoma from Brentford, no idea if it's a loan, permanent or even true but I thought I'd share the information.

ShootersHillGuru

Jack_Charlton said:

Friend of mine said we are interested in Paris Maghoma from Brentford, no idea if it's a loan, permanent or even true but I thought I'd share the information.

Who he ?

LargeAddick

22 year old midfielder, 20 games at Wimbledon on loan followed by 20 at MKD. 1 goal. Signed a new contract in Jan 2022 of 3 and a half years. Can't see him commanding much of a fee, if any.

ButtleJR

ShootersHillGuru said:

Jack_Charlton said:

Friend of mine said we are interested in Paris Maghoma from Brentford, no idea if it's a loan, permanent or even true but I thought I'd share the information.

Who he ?

On loan to MK last season, 22 year old central midfielder.