Surely the coaches should plan to arrive at least 3 hours before kick off at the grounds! Surely most would like to be in the pub by midday?
I don’t think most people who travel by coach want to be in the pub at all - despite perception on here most people do not drink before football matches. They are making a different choice by using the coach. The away travellers are more likely to drink but people who do want to do so at away games tend to make their own arrangements. In addition the police would certainly not want coaches arriving three hours in advance, although they are less prescriptive than 10 or 15 years ago and in L1.
The only reason the coaches needed to stop for 45 minutes will be because they had one driver. A single driver can only do 3.5 hours in one stint. Obviously a second driver can just take over.
Passengers generally want a stop on a trip of over three hours but with two drivers you can cut it out if there are severe delays.
I think with hindsight the coaches should have left an hour earlier to allow for extra traffic, the extent of which is very unpredictable, even if the fact of it isn’t, but they should have had two drivers for the same reason. That is entirely about cost, unless the company was stretched.
I suspect they would still have been late.
if the time put forward by the club was wrong you would expect the coach company to flag that up, because they have the experience.
One reason the away coaches come from Deal is that it makes more sense for the home coaches. But when they don’t even pick up in East Kent for away games any more it makes no sense for away travel except that the people making the arrangements will find it easier to work with the same company, who of course will want the business.
The away coach demand was destroyed by Katrien Meire anyway, and has never recovered because there has never been anyone in authority who could care less about that, like many other things in recent years. I don’t include the ticket office staff in that, to be clear. It’s the culture above that.
Airman has there ever been a survey done by anyone at the club regarding coach travel? The thing I don't understand is as you've said most of those who travel by coach are a certain clientele. Now the police don't want the coaches arriving too early , but nearly all those on the coach wouldn't give you any trouble. Yet you can get a train to Bristol and drink as much as you want and arrive by train in time for when the pubs open. I've been saying for a few years now you couldn’t pay me to get the coach, but it's not actually the coach it's the way the coach has to be set up. I'd love to see a club in this country and it's police force to trial a programme where they are my inviting for season. Let the coaches arriving at 1pm , lay on a pub where those on the coach can get a beer and something to eat. Lay on a bus/coach after the game for those on the train where its over 2 miles back to the station. Of course none of this will happen , but as a couple of us said yesterday Bristol Rovers is a place we won't be going back to next season.
Isn't one of the usual standing jokes on CL about how early the coaches depart. The Larkfield coach leaving 2 days before the match etc, so this is surprising and disappointing scenario.
Think that was in the days of Redwing. Not sure who the coach company are now.
From my house to the Memorial Ground is 39 miles. I left at one o'clock and after finding decent parking got into the ground at 2.40.
Perhaps the worst bank holiday traffic hotspots in the country are the M25 / M4 Junction and the M4 / M5 junction, both relevant to an away match in Bristol.
Isn't one of the usual standing jokes on CL about how early the coaches depart. The Larkfield coach leaving 2 days before the match etc, so this is surprising and disappointing scenario.
Think that was in the days of Redwing. Not sure who the coach company are now.
Isn't one of the usual standing jokes on CL about how early the coaches depart. The Larkfield coach leaving 2 days before the match etc, so this is surprising and disappointing scenario.
Think that was in the days of Redwing. Not sure who the coach company are now.
Isn't one of the usual standing jokes on CL about how early the coaches depart. The Larkfield coach leaving 2 days before the match etc, so this is surprising and disappointing scenario.
Think that was in the days of Redwing. Not sure who the coach company are now.
Did anyone driving fail to get to the game, due to traffic?
We left E. Sussex at 7.15am, drivng to Bristol via the A21, M25 & M4 with a 15 minute stop for the loo & a quick coffee.
As we left the Services on the M4, there was slow progress for a few miles but we arrived & parked up at 11.15.
Luckily no major holdups or incidents en route but forward & sensible planning was all that was required.
Just seen on FB that one of our most faithful Addicks missed the match due to the negligency of the coach driver/coach company, along with her 2 sons, the younger celebrating his birthday. The lads were distraught understandably and their Mum seething.
Not a great day, football wise for those of us in attendance but nothing compared to those who didn't make it.
How was the A21 Fanny? Where are you from?
It was perfect, HR. A doddle.
We're in Wadhurst so drive to the A21 via the Scotney turn off.
When I worked in this area, we’d negotiate with the clubs re coach times. The ‘old bill don’t like coaches being over an hour early’ certainly wasn’t our mantra. There was always somewhere we could put the coaches safely if they turned up early. It’s part of any football policing plan (well it was). I wouldn’t have been happy with these coach pick up times if I’d been at any planning meeting. I really feel for the supporters here.
In 20 years of involvement of running Charlton coaches I never had a "negotiation" with the police. We did get "police instructions", including where to park. The police would only ever say to us "coaches should not arrive more than one hour before kick-off or they will be held at junction X, etc". The only exception was the Emirates where we were told they had to arrive three hours before kick-off, which was obviously a local safety thing.
I respect your different experience elsewhere, but that's mine and it covers many hundreds of Charlton games from 1990 onwards and all the various police forces. Latterly the police stopped issuing instructions at all presumably because we fell down the league and their resources were cut.
There are no current planning meetings regarding Charlton coaches within the club, never mind involving the police (Manchester United being an obvious exception).
Surely the coaches should plan to arrive at least 3 hours before kick off at the grounds! Surely most would like to be in the pub by midday?
I don’t think most people who travel by coach want to be in the pub at all - despite perception on here most people do not drink before football matches. They are making a different choice by using the coach. The away travellers are more likely to drink but people who do want to do so at away games tend to make their own arrangements. In addition the police would certainly not want coaches arriving three hours in advance, although they are less prescriptive than 10 or 15 years ago and in L1.
The only reason the coaches needed to stop for 45 minutes will be because they had one driver. A single driver can only do 3.5 hours in one stint. Obviously a second driver can just take over.
Passengers generally want a stop on a trip of over three hours but with two drivers you can cut it out if there are severe delays.
I think with hindsight the coaches should have left an hour earlier to allow for extra traffic, the extent of which is very unpredictable, even if the fact of it isn’t, but they should have had two drivers for the same reason. That is entirely about cost, unless the company was stretched.
I suspect they would still have been late.
if the time put forward by the club was wrong you would expect the coach company to flag that up, because they have the experience.
One reason the away coaches come from Deal is that it makes more sense for the home coaches. But when they don’t even pick up in East Kent for away games any more it makes no sense for away travel except that the people making the arrangements will find it easier to work with the same company, who of course will want the business.
The away coach demand was destroyed by Katrien Meire anyway, and has never recovered because there has never been anyone in authority who could care less about that, like many other things in recent years. I don’t include the ticket office staff in that, to be clear. It’s the culture above that.
Airman has there ever been a survey done by anyone at the club regarding coach travel? The thing I don't understand is as you've said most of those who travel by coach are a certain clientele. Now the police don't want the coaches arriving too early , but nearly all those on the coach wouldn't give you any trouble. Yet you can get a train to Bristol and drink as much as you want and arrive by train in time for when the pubs open. I've been saying for a few years now you couldn’t pay me to get the coach, but it's not actually the coach it's the way the coach has to be set up. I'd love to see a club in this country and it's police force to trial a programme where they are my inviting for season. Let the coaches arriving at 1pm , lay on a pub where those on the coach can get a beer and something to eat. Lay on a bus/coach after the game for those on the train where its over 2 miles back to the station. Of course none of this will happen , but as a couple of us said yesterday Bristol Rovers is a place we won't be going back to next season.
We did try running an early coach in the Premier League. People didn't take it up and that was on much bigger numbers.
The numbers just aren't there for a two-tier service and I will guarantee you that if you try to schedule earlier arrivals it will upset more people than it will please. It was a cause of complaint a few years back, IIRC.
Did anyone driving fail to get to the game, due to traffic?
We left E. Sussex at 7.15am, drivng to Bristol via the A21, M25 & M4 with a 15 minute stop for the loo & a quick coffee.
As we left the Services on the M4, there was slow progress for a few miles but we arrived & parked up at 11.15.
Luckily no major holdups or incidents en route but forward & sensible planning was all that was required.
Just seen on FB that one of our most faithful Addicks missed the match due to the negligency of the coach driver/coach company, along with her 2 sons, the younger celebrating his birthday. The lads were distraught understandably and their Mum seething.
Not a great day, football wise for those of us in attendance but nothing compared to those who didn't make it.
How was the A21 Fanny? Where are you from?
It was perfect, HR. A doddle.
We're in Wadhurst so drive to the A21 via the Scotney turn off.
Nice part of the world and the 'fast' trains stop there which is a bonus.
When I worked in this area, we’d negotiate with the clubs re coach times. The ‘old bill don’t like coaches being over an hour early’ certainly wasn’t our mantra. There was always somewhere we could put the coaches safely if they turned up early. It’s part of any football policing plan (well it was). I wouldn’t have been happy with these coach pick up times if I’d been at any planning meeting. I really feel for the supporters here.
In 20 years of involvement of running Charlton coaches I never had a "negotiation" with the police. We did get "police instructions", including where to park. The police would only ever say to us "coaches should not arrive more than one hour before kick-off or they will be held at junction X, etc". The only exception was the Emirates where we were told thay had to arrive three hours before kick-off, which was obviously a local safety thing.
I respect your different experience elsewhere, but that's mine and it covers many hundreds of Charlton games from 1990 onwards and all the various police forces. Latterly the police stopped issuing instructions at all presumably because we fell down the league and their resources were cut.
There are no current planning meetings regarding Charlton coaches within the club, never mind involving the police (Manchester United being an obvious exception).
Thanks for explaining that Airman. I was wondering what sort of sanctions the police had for early arrivals. Seems crazy to me that you can hire a coach and use public roads to go wherever you like but as soon as it involves football, there's a layer of restrictions that wouldn't apply to anyone else.
Why don't the coach company make arrangements to say that if it looks like we'll be more than an hour early we'll stop for half hour or so at a predetermined place on route. My suggestion would be a country pub with a large car park somewhere along the way.
As for getting to the Emirates 3 hours early, why would anyone choose the coach when you can do it door to door in less than an hour on public transport?
When I worked in this area, we’d negotiate with the clubs re coach times. The ‘old bill don’t like coaches being over an hour early’ certainly wasn’t our mantra. There was always somewhere we could put the coaches safely if they turned up early. It’s part of any football policing plan (well it was). I wouldn’t have been happy with these coach pick up times if I’d been at any planning meeting. I really feel for the supporters here.
In 20 years of involvement of running Charlton coaches I never had a "negotiation" with the police. We did get "police instructions", including where to park. The police would only ever say to us "coaches should not arrive more than one hour before kick-off or they will be held at junction X, etc". The only exception was the Emirates where we were told thay had to arrive three hours before kick-off, which was obviously a local safety thing.
I respect your different experience elsewhere, but that's mine and it covers many hundreds of Charlton games from 1990 onwards and all the various police forces. Latterly the police stopped issuing instructions at all presumably because we fell down the league and their resources were cut.
There are no current planning meetings regarding Charlton coaches within the club, never mind involving the police (Manchester United being an obvious exception).
Thanks for explaining that Airman. I was wondering what sort of sanctions the police had for early arrivals. Seems crazy to me that you can hire a coach and use public roads to go wherever you like but as soon as it involves football, there's a layer of restrictions that wouldn't apply to anyone else.
Why don't the coach company make arrangements to say that if it looks like we'll be more than an hour early we'll stop for half hour or so at a predetermined place on route. My suggestion would be a country pub with a large car park somewhere along the way.
As for getting to the Emirates 3 hours early, why would anyone choose the coach when you can do it door to door in less than an hour on public transport?
That’s pretty much how the service station breaks are used. But as coach organisers the club and the supporters’ club does not want people on board to drink because it makes them less manageable. It’s not a problem with most people but volunteer stewards are not security staff and shouldn’t have to deal with overexcited teenagers throwing up, etc, stroppy blokes smuggling alcohol back on board , etc.
There was always a demand for coaches to London games, partly because many people don’t board in London but also because some found it more amenable / practical than the tube, etc. Obviously the latter are a minority.
First game in the Prem got the coach from Charlton left at 7am arrived at St James Park about 2.50
So that’s 25 years and counting since I last got on a coach
Whoever decided that 10.30 was a good start time on Good Friday to to go from South London to Bristol on a vehicle that doesn’t go above 60 needs a bollocking, I would have been on the road by 8 yesterday
When I worked in this area, we’d negotiate with the clubs re coach times. The ‘old bill don’t like coaches being over an hour early’ certainly wasn’t our mantra. There was always somewhere we could put the coaches safely if they turned up early. It’s part of any football policing plan (well it was). I wouldn’t have been happy with these coach pick up times if I’d been at any planning meeting. I really feel for the supporters here.
In 20 years of involvement of running Charlton coaches I never had a "negotiation" with the police. We did get "police instructions", including where to park. The police would only ever say to us "coaches should not arrive more than one hour before kick-off or they will be held at junction X, etc". The only exception was the Emirates where we were told they had to arrive three hours before kick-off, which was obviously a local safety thing.
I respect your different experience elsewhere, but that's mine and it covers many hundreds of Charlton games from 1990 onwards and all the various police forces. Latterly the police stopped issuing instructions at all presumably because we fell down the league and their resources were cut.
There are no current planning meetings regarding Charlton coaches within the club, never mind involving the police (Manchester United being an obvious exception).
Probably because they felt little old Charlton didn’t need it.
When it came to our neighbours, completely different story. Some clubs insisted on coaches only (Cardiff City for example). It was a huge part of match day organisation.
After Theresa May decimated the Met, the football operations were centralised and I can well believe all things that led to the smooth running of these things and valuable relationships that meant these thing’s usually got sorted by a phone call, fell by the wayside.
On such occasions like a bank holiday kick off, you should still be able to have a conversation with the home club about getting the coaches there early. Especially for a club like Charlton. Needs to be a lesson learnt going forward for whomever is left at the club.
I saw an article on the bbc site thatwarned that traffic issues were expected in the Bristol area and we warned our son to set off early.
I was booked on national express yesterday, saw the article and changed my mind and got train instead. Didn’t think 9:30, would get me there before 2 ish.
When I worked in this area, we’d negotiate with the clubs re coach times. The ‘old bill don’t like coaches being over an hour early’ certainly wasn’t our mantra. There was always somewhere we could put the coaches safely if they turned up early. It’s part of any football policing plan (well it was). I wouldn’t have been happy with these coach pick up times if I’d been at any planning meeting. I really feel for the supporters here.
In 20 years of involvement of running Charlton coaches I never had a "negotiation" with the police. We did get "police instructions", including where to park. The police would only ever say to us "coaches should not arrive more than one hour before kick-off or they will be held at junction X, etc". The only exception was the Emirates where we were told thay had to arrive three hours before kick-off, which was obviously a local safety thing.
I respect your different experience elsewhere, but that's mine and it covers many hundreds of Charlton games from 1990 onwards and all the various police forces. Latterly the police stopped issuing instructions at all presumably because we fell down the league and their resources were cut.
There are no current planning meetings regarding Charlton coaches within the club, never mind involving the police (Manchester United being an obvious exception).
Thanks for explaining that Airman. I was wondering what sort of sanctions the police had for early arrivals. Seems crazy to me that you can hire a coach and use public roads to go wherever you like but as soon as it involves football, there's a layer of restrictions that wouldn't apply to anyone else.
Why don't the coach company make arrangements to say that if it looks like we'll be more than an hour early we'll stop for half hour or so at a predetermined place on route. My suggestion would be a country pub with a large car park somewhere along the way.
As for getting to the Emirates 3 hours early, why would anyone choose the coach when you can do it door to door in less than an hour on public transport?
Exactly what we used to organise at Millwall when I was there. A designated area for the coaches to go and wait for an escort to the ground. That way, everyone who travelled knew exactly what to expect and the home force were happy.
But like everything, it’s all down to resources. Which is probably where the ‘an hour before’ nonsense has come from.
Where are the details of what happened? did they not make it at all or were very late?
Not sure what details you need that aren't in the thread title. They didn't make it to the game.
I was wondering the same as princessF fwiw. Not until shirty clarified on page 2 did I get that both of 2 had not made it. Poor show. Agree with others that a full refund is the minimum to be expected.
When I worked in this area, we’d negotiate with the clubs re coach times. The ‘old bill don’t like coaches being over an hour early’ certainly wasn’t our mantra. There was always somewhere we could put the coaches safely if they turned up early. It’s part of any football policing plan (well it was). I wouldn’t have been happy with these coach pick up times if I’d been at any planning meeting. I really feel for the supporters here.
In 20 years of involvement of running Charlton coaches I never had a "negotiation" with the police. We did get "police instructions", including where to park. The police would only ever say to us "coaches should not arrive more than one hour before kick-off or they will be held at junction X, etc". The only exception was the Emirates where we were told thay had to arrive three hours before kick-off, which was obviously a local safety thing.
I respect your different experience elsewhere, but that's mine and it covers many hundreds of Charlton games from 1990 onwards and all the various police forces. Latterly the police stopped issuing instructions at all presumably because we fell down the league and their resources were cut.
There are no current planning meetings regarding Charlton coaches within the club, never mind involving the police (Manchester United being an obvious exception).
Thanks for explaining that Airman. I was wondering what sort of sanctions the police had for early arrivals. Seems crazy to me that you can hire a coach and use public roads to go wherever you like but as soon as it involves football, there's a layer of restrictions that wouldn't apply to anyone else.
Why don't the coach company make arrangements to say that if it looks like we'll be more than an hour early we'll stop for half hour or so at a predetermined place on route. My suggestion would be a country pub with a large car park somewhere along the way.
As for getting to the Emirates 3 hours early, why would anyone choose the coach when you can do it door to door in less than an hour on public transport?
I remember going up to Sunderland in 2001 think it was when we lost 3-2. We were really early arriving so the coach sat in a car park and everyone was ushered into a pub before getting back on the coach back to the ground.
Have also got very distant memories of similar pub stops being done away to Barnsley once think it was around 1997 and even more of a distant memory I'm pretty sure there was a country pub stop once for Forest or Derby in the early to mid 90's.
I agree I think if the coaches arrive at a designated away pub for 12pm/1pm at the latest depending how far the away journey is you'd have more than enough wriggle room to account for any delays.
Think it's as good a time as any for the club to liaise with fans and review the whole coach travel operation from top to bottom. Sadly I don't see the club doing this.
Do we not have a supporters club/group that would be willing to organise coach travel like in the past?, is this something that has already been looked at? Is it doable? I travel by train so coaches doesn’t affect me, but surly it would be better run by fans?
Do we not have a supporters club/group that would be willing to organise coach travel like in the past?, is this something that has already been looked at? Is it doable? I travel by train so coaches doesn’t affect me, but surly it would be better run by fans?
It was run by fans until 2005 when 1) the people who had taken it on from CASC got in a bit of a mess trying to run it too cheap and didn’t pay the coach company and 2) the club had just started running home coaches and the people involved had run the CASC away service, Wendy Perfect in particular, so it made sense to bring it in house. It’s always been a hybrid though - the club doesn’t pay the stewards, who are fans, it just handles the money and books the coaches. I think the club would rather not run it.
The worst thing about running it, as Wendy has always said to me, is having the responsibility for getting people to the game and knowing that if you get it wrong you ruin everyone’s day. The flip side is that there is currently no one with that responsibility. It’s not that no one cares but there is no ownership of it. That’s ultimately why the fact the time was wrong wasn’t challenged.
However, it’s not the full story. I reckon the coaches had lost two hours by the time they stopped for the driver’s break. There’s no way the club would have planned for that. Sometimes you just have to accept that the traffic is impossible.
When I worked in this area, we’d negotiate with the clubs re coach times. The ‘old bill don’t like coaches being over an hour early’ certainly wasn’t our mantra. There was always somewhere we could put the coaches safely if they turned up early. It’s part of any football policing plan (well it was). I wouldn’t have been happy with these coach pick up times if I’d been at any planning meeting. I really feel for the supporters here.
In 20 years of involvement of running Charlton coaches I never had a "negotiation" with the police. We did get "police instructions", including where to park. The police would only ever say to us "coaches should not arrive more than one hour before kick-off or they will be held at junction X, etc". The only exception was the Emirates where we were told they had to arrive three hours before kick-off, which was obviously a local safety thing.
I respect your different experience elsewhere, but that's mine and it covers many hundreds of Charlton games from 1990 onwards and all the various police forces. Latterly the police stopped issuing instructions at all presumably because we fell down the league and their resources were cut.
There are no current planning meetings regarding Charlton coaches within the club, never mind involving the police (Manchester United being an obvious exception).
Probably because they felt little old Charlton didn’t need it.
When it came to our neighbours, completely different story. Some clubs insisted on coaches only (Cardiff City for example). It was a huge part of match day organisation.
After Theresa May decimated the Met, the football operations were centralised and I can well believe all things that led to the smooth running of these things and valuable relationships that meant these thing’s usually got sorted by a phone call, fell by the wayside.
On such occasions like a bank holiday kick off, you should still be able to have a conversation with the home club about getting the coaches there early. Especially for a club like Charlton. Needs to be a lesson learnt going forward for whomever is left at the club.
Of course I was mindful that Millwall were completely different in replying, but Charlton would have been taking more coaches to bigger grounds, so it was less about “little” old Charlton and more about “nasty” old Millwall - reality or perception.
Comments
The thing I don't understand is as you've said most of those who travel by coach are a certain clientele.
Now the police don't want the coaches arriving too early , but nearly all those on the coach wouldn't give you any trouble.
Yet you can get a train to Bristol and drink as much as you want and arrive by train in time for when the pubs open.
I've been saying for a few years now you couldn’t pay me to get the coach, but it's not actually the coach it's the way the coach has to be set up.
I'd love to see a club in this country and it's police force to trial a programme where they are my inviting for season.
Let the coaches arriving at 1pm , lay on a pub where those on the coach can get a beer and something to eat.
Lay on a bus/coach after the game for those on the train where its over 2 miles back to the station.
Of course none of this will happen , but as a couple of us said yesterday Bristol Rovers is a place we won't be going back to next season.
Perhaps the worst bank holiday traffic hotspots in the country are the M25 / M4 Junction and the M4 / M5 junction, both relevant to an away match in Bristol.
Sounds like a complete planning fuck up...
https://www.baylissexecutivetravel.co.uk/
We're in Wadhurst so drive to the A21 via the Scotney turn off.
I respect your different experience elsewhere, but that's mine and it covers many hundreds of Charlton games from 1990 onwards and all the various police forces. Latterly the police stopped issuing instructions at all presumably because we fell down the league and their resources were cut.
There are no current planning meetings regarding Charlton coaches within the club, never mind involving the police (Manchester United being an obvious exception).
The numbers just aren't there for a two-tier service and I will guarantee you that if you try to schedule earlier arrivals it will upset more people than it will please. It was a cause of complaint a few years back, IIRC.
Why don't the coach company make arrangements to say that if it looks like we'll be more than an hour early we'll stop for half hour or so at a predetermined place on route. My suggestion would be a country pub with a large car park somewhere along the way.
As for getting to the Emirates 3 hours early, why would anyone choose the coach when you can do it door to door in less than an hour on public transport?
So that’s 25 years and counting since I last got on a coach
Some clubs insisted on coaches only (Cardiff City for example).
It was a huge part of match day organisation.
After Theresa May decimated the Met, the football operations were centralised and I can well believe all things that led to the smooth running of these things and valuable relationships that meant these thing’s usually got sorted by a phone call, fell by the wayside.
On such occasions like a bank holiday kick off, you should still be able to have a conversation with the home club about getting the coaches there early. Especially for a club like Charlton.
Needs to be a lesson learnt going forward for whomever is left at the club.
A designated area for the coaches to go and wait for an escort to the ground.
That way, everyone who travelled knew exactly what to expect and the home force were happy.
But like everything, it’s all down to resources. Which is probably where the ‘an hour before’ nonsense has come from.
Have also got very distant memories of similar pub stops being done away to Barnsley once think it was around 1997 and even more of a distant memory I'm pretty sure there was a country pub stop once for Forest or Derby in the early to mid 90's.
I agree I think if the coaches arrive at a designated away pub for 12pm/1pm at the latest depending how far the away journey is you'd have more than enough wriggle room to account for any delays.
Think it's as good a time as any for the club to liaise with fans and review the whole coach travel operation from top to bottom. Sadly I don't see the club doing this.
The worst thing about running it, as Wendy has always said to me, is having the responsibility for getting people to the game and knowing that if you get it wrong you ruin everyone’s day. The flip side is that there is currently no one with that responsibility. It’s not that no one cares but there is no ownership of it. That’s ultimately why the fact the time was wrong wasn’t challenged.
However, it’s not the full story. I reckon the coaches had lost two hours by the time they stopped for the driver’s break. There’s no way the club would have planned for that. Sometimes you just have to accept that the traffic is impossible.