'Social Housing' .. and Rip Off Landlords

holyjo

Going to try to negotiate a better salary for yourself with your employer-GREED
Selling something on EBAY for the best bid when you could sell it somewhere else cheaper - GREED
Want to get the best bid for the home your selling - GREED
Want to sell your car to the highest bidder - GREED 

@kentaddick - you do appear to hold and express some peculiar views on occasions 

Incidentally; if one is a trustee of a charity or similar you are bound by law when selling assets to evidence that the sale value is the best or reasonably expected best value. 

PrincessFiona

clb74 said:

Manic_mania said:

clb74 said:

Seriously.
What's the matter with some people?
I'm 49 with no pension.
So if I decided in the next couple of years to buy a 2nd property as a pension, some would be happy to see it go tits up for me.

I personally don't see a problem with buying a second property outright and then letting it out at a fair price.

I do have an issue with taking out a mortgage and expecting tenants to pay for it.

So all rental properties need to be mortgage free - that's going to work, NOT! Who decides a fair price? They tried something in Scotland that just made it worse for tenants. A fair price is market price.

You do realise a lot of businesses you buy from take out loans and by doing business with them you are paying off their mortgage loan

Rob7Lee

holyjo said:

Going to try to negotiate a better salary for yourself with your employer-GREED
Selling something on EBAY for the best bid when you could sell it somewhere else cheaper - GREED
Want to get the best bid for the home your selling - GREED
Want to sell your car to the highest bidder - GREED 

@kentaddick - you do appear to hold and express some peculiar views on occasions 

Incidentally; if one is a trustee of a charity or similar you are bound by law when selling assets to evidence that the sale value is the best or reasonably expected best value. 

Correct, as mad as it may seem we pay nearly £40k every three years for the valuations. If we are to sell a property we then have to get a valuation from a RICS qualified surveyor and achieve 97.5% of that value, if we do not (i.e. a number of offers just below) we have to seek permission from the board who the last time I saw it happen insisted on a further valuation from a different surveyor. Same applies on purchasing (except we cannot pay more than the valuation). There's a big exclusion list of people able to buy (including me, rightly so).

My hope is that I can make a representation to continue, but to review every property that becomes vacant and if that doesn't full fill the criteria of best return (but allowing for all sale costs, vacancy whilst empty etc) then we sell that one. In the meantime eek up rents so that they get to 85% within 3 years rather than one big hit.

I personally feel in the long term property will do OK, but unfortunately most business plans are 3-5 years or sometimes 7 and when it comes to member society's the rules are vast (200+ page rule book on investments alone).

holyjo

Rob7Lee said:

holyjo said:

Going to try to negotiate a better salary for yourself with your employer-GREED
Selling something on EBAY for the best bid when you could sell it somewhere else cheaper - GREED
Want to get the best bid for the home your selling - GREED
Want to sell your car to the highest bidder - GREED 

@kentaddick - you do appear to hold and express some peculiar views on occasions 

Incidentally; if one is a trustee of a charity or similar you are bound by law when selling assets to evidence that the sale value is the best or reasonably expected best value. 

Correct, as mad as it may seem we pay nearly £40k every three years for the valuations. If we are to sell a property we then have to get a valuation from a RICS qualified surveyor and achieve 97.5% of that value, if we do not (i.e. a number of offers just below) we have to seek permission from the board who the last time I saw it happen insisted on a further valuation from a different surveyor. Same applies on purchasing (except we cannot pay more than the valuation). There's a big exclusion list of people able to buy (including me, rightly so).

My hope is that I can make a representation to continue, but to review every property that becomes vacant and if that doesn't full fill the criteria of best return (but allowing for all sale costs, vacancy whilst empty etc) then we sell that one. In the meantime eek up rents so that they get to 85% within 3 years rather than one big hit.

I personally feel in the long term property will do OK, but unfortunately most business plans are 3-5 years or sometimes 7 and when it comes to member society's the rules are vast (200+ page rule book on investments alone).

Just been through the same selling assets for the Inc Charity I lead. What's frustrating is paying for valuations that do not reflect the genuine market conditions. So we end up trying to lead the valuation based on our lived experience of what the market is really telling us to ensure that we are stymied by a valuation we cant meet

PrincessFiona

holyjo said:

Going to try to negotiate a better salary for yourself with your employer-GREED
Selling something on EBAY for the best bid when you could sell it somewhere else cheaper - GREED
Want to get the best bid for the home your selling - GREED
Want to sell your car to the highest bidder - GREED 

@kentaddick - you do appear to hold and express some peculiar views on occasions 

Incidentally; if one is a trustee of a charity or similar you are bound by law when selling assets to evidence that the sale value is the best or reasonably expected best value. 

Exactly. Just wanting a pay rise - GREED. Changing jobs to one with a better salary - GREED

Footballers are aren't great examples aren't they? Especially ones who just stay at a club to get more money but not get regular football which could jeopardise their England spot and despite the wage at the new club being 'more than adequate'

kentaddick

holyjo said:

Going to try to negotiate a better salary for yourself with your employer-GREED
Selling something on EBAY for the best bid when you could sell it somewhere else cheaper - GREED
Want to get the best bid for the home your selling - GREED
Want to sell your car to the highest bidder - GREED 

@kentaddick - you do appear to hold and express some peculiar views on occasions 

Incidentally; if one is a trustee of a charity or similar you are bound by law when selling assets to evidence that the sale value is the best or reasonably expected best value. 

The difference with a car and an item that you’re selling on eBay is that some one isn’t living in it, or is otherwise being priced out of owning the place that they live in. I ask again, why does some one become a landlord? 

I’m not so sure that describing thinking of kicking some one out of their home they’ve lived in for many years for a few % of higher return as greedy is a peculiar view, but each to their own. I’ve said it’s fair enough that rob is bound by law etc to get the best return for their members. But let’s not all pretend that it isn’t fundamentally driven by greed.

WSS

Wealth creation and greed are not the same thing.

kentaddick

PrincessFiona said:

clb74 said:

Manic_mania said:

clb74 said:

Seriously.
What's the matter with some people?
I'm 49 with no pension.
So if I decided in the next couple of years to buy a 2nd property as a pension, some would be happy to see it go tits up for me.

I personally don't see a problem with buying a second property outright and then letting it out at a fair price.

I do have an issue with taking out a mortgage and expecting tenants to pay for it.

You do realise a lot of businesses you buy from take out loans and by doing business with them you are paying off their mortgage loan

Again it’s a false equivalence. A business (usually) is providing a service, not a place for some one to live - something fundamental for human existence.

PrincessFiona

kentaddick said:

holyjo said:

Going to try to negotiate a better salary for yourself with your employer-GREED
Selling something on EBAY for the best bid when you could sell it somewhere else cheaper - GREED
Want to get the best bid for the home your selling - GREED
Want to sell your car to the highest bidder - GREED 

@kentaddick - you do appear to hold and express some peculiar views on occasions 

Incidentally; if one is a trustee of a charity or similar you are bound by law when selling assets to evidence that the sale value is the best or reasonably expected best value. 

The difference with a car and an item that you’re selling on eBay is that some one isn’t living in it, or is otherwise being priced out of owning the place that they live in. I ask again, why does some one become a landlord? 

I’m not so sure that describing thinking of kicking some one out of their home they’ve lived in for many years for a few % of higher return as greedy is a peculiar view, but each to their own. I’ve said it’s fair enough that rob is bound by law etc to get the best return for their members. But let’s not all pretend that it isn’t fundamentally driven by greed.

It isn't driven by greed. No one is pretending. But some seem not to understand it isn't greed. What do you mean by people are being kicked out of a property they don't own.

Lots of reasons people become landlords; many because they can no longer afford to live in their property and have to live with friends/family and rent out their property so they don't lose it. For others it is an investment for various reasons; for a pension, to provide an income

Another example of greed is people remaining in social housing long after they would qualify to get it when their are many very vulnerable people on the waiting list who do. And being on at least average salaries being able to save up and buy a holiday home without even one of those naughty mortgages. Bob Crow and other union leaders were/are proud of themselves on living in council properties whilst on £80k+  salaries

kentaddick

PrincessFiona said:

clb74 said:

Manic_mania said:

clb74 said:

Seriously.
What's the matter with some people?
I'm 49 with no pension.
So if I decided in the next couple of years to buy a 2nd property as a pension, some would be happy to see it go tits up for me.

I personally don't see a problem with buying a second property outright and then letting it out at a fair price.

I do have an issue with taking out a mortgage and expecting tenants to pay for it.

So all rental properties need to be mortgage free - that's going to work, NOT! Who decides a fair price? They tried something in Scotland that just made it worse for tenants. A fair price is market price.

You do realise a lot of businesses you buy from take out loans and by doing business with them you are paying off their mortgage loan

Right, I agree. But don’t become dewy eyed when the market turns on landlords who’ve overleveraged themselves and expect tenants to pick up the tab. Having your cake and eating it comes to mind - something for nothing.

Covered End

I'm getting a vibe that kentaddick is a tenant, who doesn't earn enough money to buy his own property. 

PrincessFiona

kentaddick said:

PrincessFiona said:

clb74 said:

Manic_mania said:

clb74 said:

Seriously.
What's the matter with some people?
I'm 49 with no pension.
So if I decided in the next couple of years to buy a 2nd property as a pension, some would be happy to see it go tits up for me.

I personally don't see a problem with buying a second property outright and then letting it out at a fair price.

I do have an issue with taking out a mortgage and expecting tenants to pay for it.

So all rental properties need to be mortgage free - that's going to work, NOT! Who decides a fair price? They tried something in Scotland that just made it worse for tenants. A fair price is market price.

You do realise a lot of businesses you buy from take out loans and by doing business with them you are paying off their mortgage loan

Right, I agree. But don’t become dewy eyed when the market turns on landlords who’ve overleveraged themselves and expect tenants to pick up the tab. Having your cake and eating it comes to mind - something for nothing.

Who is going 'dewy-eyed' about anything?. If you mean by 'overleveraged themselves' is this exactly the same as many owner/occupiers due to amongst other things, the worldwide economy? Don't be surprised when rents go up - and tenants have no choice about it and some of the reasons rents have gone up because the government has passed more costs on to the landlords.

kentaddick

Covered End said:

I'm getting a vibe that kentaddick is a tenant, who doesn't earn enough money to buy his own property. 

like most people of my generation, yes.

kentaddick

PrincessFiona said:

kentaddick said:

PrincessFiona said:

clb74 said:

Manic_mania said:

clb74 said:

Seriously.
What's the matter with some people?
I'm 49 with no pension.
So if I decided in the next couple of years to buy a 2nd property as a pension, some would be happy to see it go tits up for me.

I personally don't see a problem with buying a second property outright and then letting it out at a fair price.

I do have an issue with taking out a mortgage and expecting tenants to pay for it.

So all rental properties need to be mortgage free - that's going to work, NOT! Who decides a fair price? They tried something in Scotland that just made it worse for tenants. A fair price is market price.

You do realise a lot of businesses you buy from take out loans and by doing business with them you are paying off their mortgage loan

Right, I agree. But don’t become dewy eyed when the market turns on landlords who’ve overleveraged themselves and expect tenants to pick up the tab. Having your cake and eating it comes to mind - something for nothing.

Who is going 'dewy-eyed' about anything?. If you mean by 'overleveraged themselves' is this exactly the same as many owner/occupiers due to amongst other things, the worldwide economy? Don't be surprised when rents go up - and tenants have no choice about it and some of the reasons rents have gone up because the government has passed more costs on to the landlords.

And then the landlord passes it on to the tenant? What kind hearted people they are. If you can't afford to own a property and rent it out, sell it. It's quite simple - it's the market. 

Covered End

kentaddick said:

Covered End said:

I'm getting a vibe that kentaddick is a tenant, who doesn't earn enough money to buy his own property. 

like most people of my generation, yes.

You have my sympathy. 
Mind you my 27 year old son bought a flat last year and he was the last of 6 school friends to buy a property. 

WSS

And if people are willing to pay the rent, landlords will charge it.

It’s quite simple - it’s the market.

kentaddick

WSS said:

And if people are willing to pay the rent, landlords will charge it.

It’s quite simple - it’s the market.

Right, exactly - it's greed.

kentaddick

"people are willing to pay more money to not be homeless" isn't really a very good gotcha is it?

kentaddick

Covered End said:

kentaddick said:

Covered End said:

I'm getting a vibe that kentaddick is a tenant, who doesn't earn enough money to buy his own property. 

like most people of my generation, yes.

You have my sympathy. 
Mind you my 27 year old son bought a flat last year and he was the last of 6 school friends to buy a property. 

Good for him i guess?

WSS

Can you outline how your ideal (and realistic) housing market would work?

Should everyone only be allowed to own a maximum of one property?

Should the government own all surplus property and set rents for people who can’t afford their home? 

WSS

kentaddick said:

"people are willing to pay more money to not be homeless" isn't really a very good gotcha is it?

Are you saying homeless people are homeless because they aren’t willing to pay more? Bit heartless.

kentaddick

WSS said:

kentaddick said:

"people are willing to pay more money to not be homeless" isn't really a very good gotcha is it?

Are you saying homeless people are homeless because they aren’t willing to pay more? Bit heartless.

No, I’m not, they’re unable to pay which is a big difference.

kentaddick

WSS said:

Can you outline how your ideal (and realistic) housing market would work?

Should everyone only be allowed to own a maximum of one property?

Should the government own all surplus property and set rents for people who can’t afford their home? 

I’d like to see much higher taxes on second properties etc. ideally ring fenced so that tenants don’t end up paying it (like they always do). Not sure how that would work, however. Either way the current state is absolutely not sustainable. 

PrincessFiona

kentaddick said:

PrincessFiona said:

kentaddick said:

PrincessFiona said:

clb74 said:

Manic_mania said:

clb74 said:

Seriously.
What's the matter with some people?
I'm 49 with no pension.
So if I decided in the next couple of years to buy a 2nd property as a pension, some would be happy to see it go tits up for me.

I personally don't see a problem with buying a second property outright and then letting it out at a fair price.

I do have an issue with taking out a mortgage and expecting tenants to pay for it.

So all rental properties need to be mortgage free - that's going to work, NOT! Who decides a fair price? They tried something in Scotland that just made it worse for tenants. A fair price is market price.

You do realise a lot of businesses you buy from take out loans and by doing business with them you are paying off their mortgage loan

Right, I agree. But don’t become dewy eyed when the market turns on landlords who’ve overleveraged themselves and expect tenants to pick up the tab. Having your cake and eating it comes to mind - something for nothing.

Who is going 'dewy-eyed' about anything?. If you mean by 'overleveraged themselves' is this exactly the same as many owner/occupiers due to amongst other things, the worldwide economy? Don't be surprised when rents go up - and tenants have no choice about it and some of the reasons rents have gone up because the government has passed more costs on to the landlords.

And then the landlord passes it on to the tenant? What kind hearted people they are. If you can't afford to own a property and rent it out, sell it. It's quite simple - it's the market. 

Many more would have to sell up than currently are, which would be even worse for tenants - I'm not surprised you aren't able to purchase your own place if you don't understand the fundamentals even if you must have predicted the end in the recent low interest period that so many others didn't! I know lots of people in their 20s buying a property

PrincessFiona

kentaddick said:

WSS said:

Can you outline how your ideal (and realistic) housing market would work?

Should everyone only be allowed to own a maximum of one property?

Should the government own all surplus property and set rents for people who can’t afford their home? 

I’d like to see much higher taxes on second properties etc. ideally ring fenced so that tenants don’t end up paying it (like they always do). Not sure how that would work, however. Either way the current state is absolutely not sustainable. 

That would probably put rents up even more

PrincessFiona

kentaddick said:

WSS said:

And if people are willing to pay the rent, landlords will charge it.

It’s quite simple - it’s the market.

Right, exactly - it's greed.

Still not greed. You've been given several other examples

Covered End

It often puzzles me how people who I would assume are in full time employment, manage to post on CL throughout the day.
Before I retired I didn't have time to look at CL let alone post anything as I was far too busy. 

MrOneLung

Covered End said:

It often puzzles me how people who I would assume are in full time employment, manage to post on CL throughout the day.
Before I retired I didn't have time to look at CL let alone post anything as I was far too busy. 

Someone didn’t go on the time management courses at work….

PrincessFiona

Covered End said:

It often puzzles me how people who I would assume are in full time employment, manage to post on CL throughout the day.
Before I retired I didn't have time to look at CL let alone post anything as I was far too busy. 

I can't always do it but often am able to whilst waiting for a response to something.

Or greedy landlords who don't need to work (not!)

Manic_mania

Covered End said:

I'm getting a vibe that kentaddick is a tenant, who doesn't earn enough money to buy his own property. 

lots of people are in that position - that is not humorous - it's just unfortunately true.

The thing that sticks in my craw a little as someone in that position - I can just about afford to pay the monthly mortgage for the place I live in, as a renter - and in fact that is what I am doing - but apparently i'm not trusted enough to get a mortgage - but I can pay someone elses off and nobody sees the issue.

It's a bit sick tbh - the system seems kinda set up against me. 

edit for clarity - 9 years of renting thus far. Never missed a single rent payment. seen my rent rise by 25 -50 quid a month each year in that time, (until recently) for a one bed flat. After the latest rise i requested to hand in my notice and planned to go back to parents - my (decent) landlord called me (first time in nine years i've even had to speak to the guy) and asked me what he needed to do to keep me in the place.