why do people become landlords? Out of the goodness of their hearts?
No, it is an investment - they pay money up front, they pay interest on mortgage, they pay interest on profits, they maintain the property, they take risk of empty period.
I still don't understand where the something for nothing is
why do people become landlords? Out of the goodness of their hearts?
No, it is an investment - they pay money up front, they pay interest on mortgage, they pay interest on profits, they maintain the property, they take risk of empty period.
I still don't understand where the something for nothing is
the expectation that the gravy train should just roll on and on. You're right, there is a risk, and i'm sorry, but that's the market they're in. If they can't afford to own a property they don't live in, they should sell.
why do people become landlords? Out of the goodness of their hearts?
Lot's of reasons. Sometimes the job moves for a period of time so you let the house for that period with a view to returning eventually once the job move is complete.
@Rob7Lee is a trustee of a Friendly Society. Back when the Friendly Society was formed the motivation was philanthropic and altruistic in an attempt to relieve homelessness by building affordable in the literal (rather than the political connotations of that word in this context today) homes people could rent. However as a Trustee he has a duty of care to obtain the best return he can for the present day members of the Friendly Society. Hence given greater compliance responsibilities via net zero bollocks etc and the increased costs as a consequence the options left to him are rent increases or sell the properties. Either way it is the existing tenants who suffer.
why do people become landlords? Out of the goodness of their hearts?
Lot's of reasons. Sometimes the job moves for a period of time so you let the house for that period with a view to returning eventually once the job move is complete.
@Rob7Lee is a trustee of a Friendly Society. Back when the Friendly Society was formed the motivation was philanthropic and altruistic in an attempt to relieve homelessness by building affordable in the literal (rather than the political connotations of that word in this context today) homes people could rent. However as a Trustee he has a duty of care to obtain the best return he can for the present day members of the Friendly Society. Hence given greater compliance responsibilities via net zero bollocks etc and the increased costs as a consequence the options left to him are rent increases or sell the properties. Either way it is the existing tenants who suffer.
Pretty terrible financial management to not have any mortgage on the properties and have to sell because of costs have increased to maintain the property to make them liveable. Quite extraordinary, in fact. How did that happen? Was it greed?
why do people become landlords? Out of the goodness of their hearts?
Lot's of reasons. Sometimes the job moves for a period of time so you let the house for that period with a view to returning eventually once the job move is complete.
@Rob7Lee is a trustee of a Friendly Society. Back when the Friendly Society was formed the motivation was philanthropic and altruistic in an attempt to relieve homelessness by building affordable in the literal (rather than the political connotations of that word in this context today) homes people could rent. However as a Trustee he has a duty of care to obtain the best return he can for the present day members of the Friendly Society. Hence given greater compliance responsibilities via net zero bollocks etc and the increased costs as a consequence the options left to him are rent increases or sell the properties. Either way it is the existing tenants who suffer.
Pretty terrible financial management to not have any mortgage on the properties and have to sell because of costs have increased to maintain the property to make them liveable. Quite extraordinary, in fact. How did that happen? Was it greed?
Airbnb has wrecked the rental market in coastal areas, as landlords can make more money by renting out the property via Airbnb during the summer months, and then offering short term rentals for 6 months in the colder months.
Airbnb has wrecked the rental market in coastal areas, as landlords can make more money by renting out the property via Airbnb during the summer months, and then offering short term rentals for 6 months in the colder months.
Come on, the landlords are putting it on airbnb because it's easier for people to rent from them, how would renters cope if they wouldn't be able to rent on an app??
The definition of ‘affordable’ ought to be, errr, formalised. It can’t be beyond the wit of man to link affordability to incomes. The current situation makes the notion of ‘affordable’ seem all pink and fluffy when it is more closely related to profit rather than an honest day’s work.
why do people become landlords? Out of the goodness of their hearts?
Lot's of reasons. Sometimes the job moves for a period of time so you let the house for that period with a view to returning eventually once the job move is complete.
@Rob7Lee is a trustee of a Friendly Society. Back when the Friendly Society was formed the motivation was philanthropic and altruistic in an attempt to relieve homelessness by building affordable in the literal (rather than the political connotations of that word in this context today) homes people could rent. However as a Trustee he has a duty of care to obtain the best return he can for the present day members of the Friendly Society. Hence given greater compliance responsibilities via net zero bollocks etc and the increased costs as a consequence the options left to him are rent increases or sell the properties. Either way it is the existing tenants who suffer.
100% correct.
I have a three year cycle, every three years all investments are revalued (the properties for both their open market value and rental value, one of the societies rules is we have to charge a minimum of 85% of the market rental value) and I have to show why keeping as is (or changing) is the right thing to do to obtain the best possible return for the members I represent. I will receive those valuations in the next two weeks.
I managed to just about do that three years ago but it was very marginal. But in all honesty I've almost no chance this time around, even if I massively push the rents up (which for some I would have no option as they have fallen well below the 85% mark) it's still unlikely I could yield more than 2.5%. Our business current account linked saver with Santander pays 4.73%!
Bizarrely being a good landlord doesn't help. Our properties are kept in tip top condition, the net effect of that is we net less rent than we possibly could do and the properties being in such good condition are at the high end value for the roads etc. As an example mostly last year into early this year we increased the insulation in every loft to over 300mm to aide tenants heating bills. We also renewed 14 boilers that were over 10 years old for the same reason. I also had all doors and windows checked and we replaced a number of those (around £80k's worth)
So whilst the reason we are likely to sell is very different to most, it is almost solely down to rental values increasing as they have as well as property prices.
why do people become landlords? Out of the goodness of their hearts?
Lot's of reasons. Sometimes the job moves for a period of time so you let the house for that period with a view to returning eventually once the job move is complete.
@Rob7Lee is a trustee of a Friendly Society. Back when the Friendly Society was formed the motivation was philanthropic and altruistic in an attempt to relieve homelessness by building affordable in the literal (rather than the political connotations of that word in this context today) homes people could rent. However as a Trustee he has a duty of care to obtain the best return he can for the present day members of the Friendly Society. Hence given greater compliance responsibilities via net zero bollocks etc and the increased costs as a consequence the options left to him are rent increases or sell the properties. Either way it is the existing tenants who suffer.
Pretty terrible financial management to not have any mortgage on the properties and have to sell because of costs have increased to maintain the property to make them liveable. Quite extraordinary, in fact. How did that happen? Was it greed?
Hopefully my answer above answers your prosperous comment, but to be clear:
I have a duty to the members to obtain the best return on THEIR funds. Sadly I am no longer going to be able to show that our property letting does that. Whilst it may make 1/4 of a million I could quite easily achieve £800k elsewhere (and also de-risk the portfolio as we are too heavy/reliant on property).
I probably could if I wanted to, by maxing out everyones rent and likely losing over half the existing tenants and as long as I do not spend a single penny on repairs or anything that goes wrong and make up some numbers that over the next 3 year cycle property prices will increase by 15%.
Airbnb has wrecked the rental market in coastal areas, as landlords can make more money by renting out the property via Airbnb during the summer months, and then offering short term rentals for 6 months in the colder months.
Come on, the landlords are putting it on airbnb because it's easier for people to rent from them, how would renters cope if they wouldn't be able to rent on an app??
Airbnb has wrecked the rental market in coastal areas, as landlords can make more money by renting out the property via Airbnb during the summer months, and then offering short term rentals for 6 months in the colder months.
Come on, the landlords are putting it on airbnb because it's easier for people to rent from them, how would renters cope if they wouldn't be able to rent on an app??
People are prepared to pay more for a holiday in an Airbnb than most renters can afford. It's almost impossible to rent a property in a coastal area for most renters.
The definition of ‘affordable’ ought to be, errr, formalised. It can’t be beyond the wit of man to link affordability to incomes. The current situation makes the notion of ‘affordable’ seem all pink and fluffy when it is more closely related to profit rather than an honest day’s work.
Build shed loads of council properties and rent them out at reasonable rents on secure tenancies - just like I and millions of others were used to when growing up.
why do people become landlords? Out of the goodness of their hearts?
Lot's of reasons. Sometimes the job moves for a period of time so you let the house for that period with a view to returning eventually once the job move is complete.
@Rob7Lee is a trustee of a Friendly Society. Back when the Friendly Society was formed the motivation was philanthropic and altruistic in an attempt to relieve homelessness by building affordable in the literal (rather than the political connotations of that word in this context today) homes people could rent. However as a Trustee he has a duty of care to obtain the best return he can for the present day members of the Friendly Society. Hence given greater compliance responsibilities via net zero bollocks etc and the increased costs as a consequence the options left to him are rent increases or sell the properties. Either way it is the existing tenants who suffer.
100% correct.
I have a three year cycle, every three years all investments are revalued (the properties for both their open market value and rental value, one of the societies rules is we have to charge a minimum of 85% of the market rental value) and I have to show why keeping as is (or changing) is the right thing to do to obtain the best possible return for the members I represent. I will receive those valuations in the next two weeks.
I managed to just about do that three years ago but it was very marginal. But in all honesty I've almost no chance this time around, even if I massively push the rents up (which for some I would have no option as they have fallen well below the 85% mark) it's still unlikely I could yield more than 2.5%. Our business current account linked saver with Santander pays 4.73%!
Bizarrely being a good landlord doesn't help. Our properties are kept in tip top condition, the net effect of that is we net less rent than we possibly could do and the properties being in such good condition are at the high end value for the roads etc. As an example mostly last year into early this year we increased the insulation in every loft to over 300mm to aide tenants heating bills. We also renewed 14 boilers that were over 10 years old for the same reason. I also had all doors and windows checked and we replaced a number of those (around £80k's worth)
So whilst the reason we are likely to sell is very different to most, it is almost solely down to rental values increasing as they have as well as property prices.
why do people become landlords? Out of the goodness of their hearts?
Lot's of reasons. Sometimes the job moves for a period of time so you let the house for that period with a view to returning eventually once the job move is complete.
@Rob7Lee is a trustee of a Friendly Society. Back when the Friendly Society was formed the motivation was philanthropic and altruistic in an attempt to relieve homelessness by building affordable in the literal (rather than the political connotations of that word in this context today) homes people could rent. However as a Trustee he has a duty of care to obtain the best return he can for the present day members of the Friendly Society. Hence given greater compliance responsibilities via net zero bollocks etc and the increased costs as a consequence the options left to him are rent increases or sell the properties. Either way it is the existing tenants who suffer.
Pretty terrible financial management to not have any mortgage on the properties and have to sell because of costs have increased to maintain the property to make them liveable. Quite extraordinary, in fact. How did that happen? Was it greed?
Hopefully my answer above answers your prosperous comment, but to be clear:
I have a duty to the members to obtain the best return on THEIR funds. Sadly I am no longer going to be able to show that our property letting does that. Whilst it may make 1/4 of a million I could quite easily achieve £800k elsewhere (and also de-risk the portfolio as we are too heavy/reliant on property).
I probably could if I wanted to, by maxing out everyones rent and likely losing over half the existing tenants and as long as I do not spend a single penny on repairs or anything that goes wrong and make up some numbers that over the next 3 year cycle property prices will increase by 15%.
so i was right, that's a very long winded way of saying simply "greed". It's just an investment to the members, they're not providing property to rent out of the goodness of their hearts. I don't know why investing in property seems to make people lose all sense that it's an investment that could go up and could go down. You're fair enough to see the best return for your members, but don't pretend it isn't primarily, maybe exclusively, driven by greed.
If he was greedy or let's say irresponsible, he would have either sold all the properties or jacked up the rents and not done the non statutory repair and maintenance work. Then taken all that residual cash and given it to Vanguard or Bailie Gifford who really can introduce us to the definition of greed, or let's say responsibly managing an investment
There are greedy, irresponsible, unpleasant and unsuitable property owners aplenty. A mate of mine lives in a home owned by one such person but @Rob7Lee doesn't sound like he falls into that category nor is he expecting something for nothing.
As it stands we live in a runaway capitalist economy where government-provided housing is (wrongly) in massive short supply. Its criminal that the people who sold all those council properties didn't reinvest that capital into building more and building them in sustainable places creating communities but they didn't so we are where we are. If these people didn't buy properties to rent out those properties wouldn't all of a sudden become affordable to buy. I'm not im anyway defending scumbag landlords, obviously. I will understand why people I know who don't have pensions have invested in property and if they can ride it out, fine, if they can't. Like I say, careful what you wish for, we are conjuring a perfect storm currently. There are not a load of benevolent, charitable people ready to swoop in and single handedly make life better for renters but there are a lot of venture capitalists, chancers, investors and greedy entities who will be more than happy to take on repossessed properties, boot tenants out or jack rents up
Isn’t that you trying to profit from the scarcity of bitcoin and wanting people to pay more and more for it in order for your portfolios value to grow ?
What about those who want bitcoin but most of it has been hoovered up by people/institutions with more money than them?
Are you not just sitting there waiting for your investment to grow?
why do people become landlords? Out of the goodness of their hearts?
Lot's of reasons. Sometimes the job moves for a period of time so you let the house for that period with a view to returning eventually once the job move is complete.
@Rob7Lee is a trustee of a Friendly Society. Back when the Friendly Society was formed the motivation was philanthropic and altruistic in an attempt to relieve homelessness by building affordable in the literal (rather than the political connotations of that word in this context today) homes people could rent. However as a Trustee he has a duty of care to obtain the best return he can for the present day members of the Friendly Society. Hence given greater compliance responsibilities via net zero bollocks etc and the increased costs as a consequence the options left to him are rent increases or sell the properties. Either way it is the existing tenants who suffer.
100% correct.
I have a three year cycle, every three years all investments are revalued (the properties for both their open market value and rental value, one of the societies rules is we have to charge a minimum of 85% of the market rental value) and I have to show why keeping as is (or changing) is the right thing to do to obtain the best possible return for the members I represent. I will receive those valuations in the next two weeks.
I managed to just about do that three years ago but it was very marginal. But in all honesty I've almost no chance this time around, even if I massively push the rents up (which for some I would have no option as they have fallen well below the 85% mark) it's still unlikely I could yield more than 2.5%. Our business current account linked saver with Santander pays 4.73%!
Bizarrely being a good landlord doesn't help. Our properties are kept in tip top condition, the net effect of that is we net less rent than we possibly could do and the properties being in such good condition are at the high end value for the roads etc. As an example mostly last year into early this year we increased the insulation in every loft to over 300mm to aide tenants heating bills. We also renewed 14 boilers that were over 10 years old for the same reason. I also had all doors and windows checked and we replaced a number of those (around £80k's worth)
So whilst the reason we are likely to sell is very different to most, it is almost solely down to rental values increasing as they have as well as property prices.
why do people become landlords? Out of the goodness of their hearts?
Lot's of reasons. Sometimes the job moves for a period of time so you let the house for that period with a view to returning eventually once the job move is complete.
@Rob7Lee is a trustee of a Friendly Society. Back when the Friendly Society was formed the motivation was philanthropic and altruistic in an attempt to relieve homelessness by building affordable in the literal (rather than the political connotations of that word in this context today) homes people could rent. However as a Trustee he has a duty of care to obtain the best return he can for the present day members of the Friendly Society. Hence given greater compliance responsibilities via net zero bollocks etc and the increased costs as a consequence the options left to him are rent increases or sell the properties. Either way it is the existing tenants who suffer.
Pretty terrible financial management to not have any mortgage on the properties and have to sell because of costs have increased to maintain the property to make them liveable. Quite extraordinary, in fact. How did that happen? Was it greed?
Hopefully my answer above answers your prosperous comment, but to be clear:
I have a duty to the members to obtain the best return on THEIR funds. Sadly I am no longer going to be able to show that our property letting does that. Whilst it may make 1/4 of a million I could quite easily achieve £800k elsewhere (and also de-risk the portfolio as we are too heavy/reliant on property).
I probably could if I wanted to, by maxing out everyones rent and likely losing over half the existing tenants and as long as I do not spend a single penny on repairs or anything that goes wrong and make up some numbers that over the next 3 year cycle property prices will increase by 15%.
so i was right, that's a very long winded way of saying simply "greed". It's just an investment to the members, they're not providing property to rent out of the goodness of their hearts. I don't know why investing in property seems to make people lose all sense that it's an investment that could go up and could go down. You're fair enough to see the best return for your members, but don't pretend it isn't primarily, maybe exclusively, driven by greed.
Isn’t that you trying to profit from the scarcity of bitcoin and wanting people to pay more and more for it in order for your portfolios value to grow ?
What about those who want bitcoin but most of it has been hoovered up by people/institutions with more money than them?
Are you not just sitting there waiting for your investment to grow?
Difference is that when bitcoin goes down people aren't saying we should help the investors out as they're 'such an important part of society'.
Landlords are investors, they aren't saviours and shouldn't be treated as such.
why do people become landlords? Out of the goodness of their hearts?
Lot's of reasons. Sometimes the job moves for a period of time so you let the house for that period with a view to returning eventually once the job move is complete.
@Rob7Lee is a trustee of a Friendly Society. Back when the Friendly Society was formed the motivation was philanthropic and altruistic in an attempt to relieve homelessness by building affordable in the literal (rather than the political connotations of that word in this context today) homes people could rent. However as a Trustee he has a duty of care to obtain the best return he can for the present day members of the Friendly Society. Hence given greater compliance responsibilities via net zero bollocks etc and the increased costs as a consequence the options left to him are rent increases or sell the properties. Either way it is the existing tenants who suffer.
100% correct.
I have a three year cycle, every three years all investments are revalued (the properties for both their open market value and rental value, one of the societies rules is we have to charge a minimum of 85% of the market rental value) and I have to show why keeping as is (or changing) is the right thing to do to obtain the best possible return for the members I represent. I will receive those valuations in the next two weeks.
I managed to just about do that three years ago but it was very marginal. But in all honesty I've almost no chance this time around, even if I massively push the rents up (which for some I would have no option as they have fallen well below the 85% mark) it's still unlikely I could yield more than 2.5%. Our business current account linked saver with Santander pays 4.73%!
Bizarrely being a good landlord doesn't help. Our properties are kept in tip top condition, the net effect of that is we net less rent than we possibly could do and the properties being in such good condition are at the high end value for the roads etc. As an example mostly last year into early this year we increased the insulation in every loft to over 300mm to aide tenants heating bills. We also renewed 14 boilers that were over 10 years old for the same reason. I also had all doors and windows checked and we replaced a number of those (around £80k's worth)
So whilst the reason we are likely to sell is very different to most, it is almost solely down to rental values increasing as they have as well as property prices.
why do people become landlords? Out of the goodness of their hearts?
Lot's of reasons. Sometimes the job moves for a period of time so you let the house for that period with a view to returning eventually once the job move is complete.
@Rob7Lee is a trustee of a Friendly Society. Back when the Friendly Society was formed the motivation was philanthropic and altruistic in an attempt to relieve homelessness by building affordable in the literal (rather than the political connotations of that word in this context today) homes people could rent. However as a Trustee he has a duty of care to obtain the best return he can for the present day members of the Friendly Society. Hence given greater compliance responsibilities via net zero bollocks etc and the increased costs as a consequence the options left to him are rent increases or sell the properties. Either way it is the existing tenants who suffer.
Pretty terrible financial management to not have any mortgage on the properties and have to sell because of costs have increased to maintain the property to make them liveable. Quite extraordinary, in fact. How did that happen? Was it greed?
Hopefully my answer above answers your prosperous comment, but to be clear:
I have a duty to the members to obtain the best return on THEIR funds. Sadly I am no longer going to be able to show that our property letting does that. Whilst it may make 1/4 of a million I could quite easily achieve £800k elsewhere (and also de-risk the portfolio as we are too heavy/reliant on property).
I probably could if I wanted to, by maxing out everyones rent and likely losing over half the existing tenants and as long as I do not spend a single penny on repairs or anything that goes wrong and make up some numbers that over the next 3 year cycle property prices will increase by 15%.
so i was right, that's a very long winded way of saying simply "greed". It's just an investment to the members, they're not providing property to rent out of the goodness of their hearts. I don't know why investing in property seems to make people lose all sense that it's an investment that could go up and could go down. You're fair enough to see the best return for your members, but don't pretend it isn't primarily, maybe exclusively, driven by greed.
No you are not, aside from this individual situation around friendly societies, getting the best return on an investment is not greed, it's common sense. If you don't understand that basic principle I despair, as has been mentioned above I'm sure with anything you invest in you are doing so to try to make the most money within your risk appetite.
As for friendly societies, and Ive said this more than once, I have a duty to look after members money making sure that it performs to the optimum and rightly so. I've really tried to balance that with the tenants as much as I humanly can, you could ask all bar one of our 50+ tenant families and all will say we are a fantastic Landlord and are so appreciative that we always look after them and nothing is too much trouble, hence why many of out tenants have been so for decades which will make any decision all that much harder, I have one last card up my sleeve which I hope the board will go for, but I'm not more than 50/50 confident.
If he was greedy or let's say irresponsible, he would have either sold all the properties or jacked up the rents and not done the non statutory repair and maintenance work. Then taken all that residual cash and given it to Vanguard or Bailie Gifford who really can introduce us to the definition of greed, or let's say responsibly managing an investment
There are greedy, irresponsible, unpleasant and unsuitable property owners aplenty. A mate of mine lives in a home owned by one such person but @Rob7Lee doesn't sound like he falls into that category nor is he expecting something for nothing.
As it stands we live in a runaway capitalist economy where government-provided housing is (wrongly) in massive short supply. Its criminal that the people who sold all those council properties didn't reinvest that capital into building more and building them in sustainable places creating communities but they didn't so we are where we are. If these people didn't buy properties to rent out those properties wouldn't all of a sudden become affordable to buy. I'm not im anyway defending scumbag landlords, obviously. I will understand why people I know who don't have pensions have invested in property and if they can ride it out, fine, if they can't. Like I say, careful what you wish for, we are conjuring a perfect storm currently. There are not a load of benevolent, charitable people ready to swoop in and single handedly make life better for renters but there are a lot of venture capitalists, chancers, investors and greedy entities who will be more than happy to take on repossessed properties, boot tenants out or jack rents up
It’s greed because he’s getting a return but could get a better return somewhere else, so he’ll liquidate his assets to invest in another. It’s greed. The reason why people become landlords is to accumulate wealth, ie, greed. As you say, we live in a capitalist society, as they say - greed is good. But don’t be surprised when it bites you on the backside occasionally or claim to be some moral outrider because you provide housing to renters.
Isn’t that you trying to profit from the scarcity of bitcoin and wanting people to pay more and more for it in order for your portfolios value to grow ?
What about those who want bitcoin but most of it has been hoovered up by people/institutions with more money than them?
Are you not just sitting there waiting for your investment to grow?
Yes, but I’m fully aware of the risks and only have myself to blame if it goes tits up. Price can go up and price can also go down. I don’t go crying saying it’s got more difficult to make money or that price isn’t always going up. I’m not expecting something for nothing.
why do people become landlords? Out of the goodness of their hearts?
Lot's of reasons. Sometimes the job moves for a period of time so you let the house for that period with a view to returning eventually once the job move is complete.
@Rob7Lee is a trustee of a Friendly Society. Back when the Friendly Society was formed the motivation was philanthropic and altruistic in an attempt to relieve homelessness by building affordable in the literal (rather than the political connotations of that word in this context today) homes people could rent. However as a Trustee he has a duty of care to obtain the best return he can for the present day members of the Friendly Society. Hence given greater compliance responsibilities via net zero bollocks etc and the increased costs as a consequence the options left to him are rent increases or sell the properties. Either way it is the existing tenants who suffer.
100% correct.
I have a three year cycle, every three years all investments are revalued (the properties for both their open market value and rental value, one of the societies rules is we have to charge a minimum of 85% of the market rental value) and I have to show why keeping as is (or changing) is the right thing to do to obtain the best possible return for the members I represent. I will receive those valuations in the next two weeks.
I managed to just about do that three years ago but it was very marginal. But in all honesty I've almost no chance this time around, even if I massively push the rents up (which for some I would have no option as they have fallen well below the 85% mark) it's still unlikely I could yield more than 2.5%. Our business current account linked saver with Santander pays 4.73%!
Bizarrely being a good landlord doesn't help. Our properties are kept in tip top condition, the net effect of that is we net less rent than we possibly could do and the properties being in such good condition are at the high end value for the roads etc. As an example mostly last year into early this year we increased the insulation in every loft to over 300mm to aide tenants heating bills. We also renewed 14 boilers that were over 10 years old for the same reason. I also had all doors and windows checked and we replaced a number of those (around £80k's worth)
So whilst the reason we are likely to sell is very different to most, it is almost solely down to rental values increasing as they have as well as property prices.
why do people become landlords? Out of the goodness of their hearts?
Lot's of reasons. Sometimes the job moves for a period of time so you let the house for that period with a view to returning eventually once the job move is complete.
@Rob7Lee is a trustee of a Friendly Society. Back when the Friendly Society was formed the motivation was philanthropic and altruistic in an attempt to relieve homelessness by building affordable in the literal (rather than the political connotations of that word in this context today) homes people could rent. However as a Trustee he has a duty of care to obtain the best return he can for the present day members of the Friendly Society. Hence given greater compliance responsibilities via net zero bollocks etc and the increased costs as a consequence the options left to him are rent increases or sell the properties. Either way it is the existing tenants who suffer.
Pretty terrible financial management to not have any mortgage on the properties and have to sell because of costs have increased to maintain the property to make them liveable. Quite extraordinary, in fact. How did that happen? Was it greed?
Hopefully my answer above answers your prosperous comment, but to be clear:
I have a duty to the members to obtain the best return on THEIR funds. Sadly I am no longer going to be able to show that our property letting does that. Whilst it may make 1/4 of a million I could quite easily achieve £800k elsewhere (and also de-risk the portfolio as we are too heavy/reliant on property).
I probably could if I wanted to, by maxing out everyones rent and likely losing over half the existing tenants and as long as I do not spend a single penny on repairs or anything that goes wrong and make up some numbers that over the next 3 year cycle property prices will increase by 15%.
so i was right, that's a very long winded way of saying simply "greed". It's just an investment to the members, they're not providing property to rent out of the goodness of their hearts. I don't know why investing in property seems to make people lose all sense that it's an investment that could go up and could go down. You're fair enough to see the best return for your members, but don't pretend it isn't primarily, maybe exclusively, driven by greed.
No you are not, aside from this individual situation around friendly societies, getting the best return on an investment is not greed, it's common sense. If you don't understand that basic principle I despair, as has been mentioned above I'm sure with anything you invest in you are doing so to try to make the most money within your risk appetite.
As for friendly societies, and Ive said this more than once, I have a duty to look after members money making sure that it performs to the optimum and rightly so. I've really tried to balance that with the tenants as much as I humanly can, you could ask all bar one of our 50+ tenant families and all will say we are a fantastic Landlord and are so appreciative that we always look after them and nothing is too much trouble, hence why many of out tenants have been so for decades which will make any decision all that much harder, I have one last card up my sleeve which I hope the board will go for, but I'm not more than 50/50 confident.
But yer, it's just greed right?
You’re going to kick people out of their homes for a few more % in yield and you think that’s not greed?
If he was greedy or let's say irresponsible, he would have either sold all the properties or jacked up the rents and not done the non statutory repair and maintenance work. Then taken all that residual cash and given it to Vanguard or Bailie Gifford who really can introduce us to the definition of greed, or let's say responsibly managing an investment
There are greedy, irresponsible, unpleasant and unsuitable property owners aplenty. A mate of mine lives in a home owned by one such person but @Rob7Lee doesn't sound like he falls into that category nor is he expecting something for nothing.
As it stands we live in a runaway capitalist economy where government-provided housing is (wrongly) in massive short supply. Its criminal that the people who sold all those council properties didn't reinvest that capital into building more and building them in sustainable places creating communities but they didn't so we are where we are. If these people didn't buy properties to rent out those properties wouldn't all of a sudden become affordable to buy. I'm not im anyway defending scumbag landlords, obviously. I will understand why people I know who don't have pensions have invested in property and if they can ride it out, fine, if they can't. Like I say, careful what you wish for, we are conjuring a perfect storm currently. There are not a load of benevolent, charitable people ready to swoop in and single handedly make life better for renters but there are a lot of venture capitalists, chancers, investors and greedy entities who will be more than happy to take on repossessed properties, boot tenants out or jack rents up
It’s greed because he’s getting a return but could get a better return somewhere else, so he’ll liquidate his assets to invest in another. It’s greed. The reason why people become landlords is to accumulate wealth, ie, greed. As you say, we live in a capitalist society, as they say - greed is good. But don’t be surprised when it bites you on the backside occasionally or claim to be some moral outrider because you provide housing to renters.
Isn’t that you trying to profit from the scarcity of bitcoin and wanting people to pay more and more for it in order for your portfolios value to grow ?
What about those who want bitcoin but most of it has been hoovered up by people/institutions with more money than them?
Are you not just sitting there waiting for your investment to grow?
Yes, but I’m fully aware of the risks and only have myself to blame if it goes tits up. Price can go up and price can also go down. I don’t go crying saying it’s got more difficult to make money or that price isn’t always going up. I’m not expecting something for nothing.
This is becoming one of the most ludicrous conversations I think i've ever seen on here.
So someone who realises their £5k they leave in their current account earning no interest could be better placed in NS&I at 6.2% is greedy if they liquidate it and move it?
I really shouldn't have took my latest job in 2020, I'm sure had I hung around long enough someone would have paid me less, I'm such a fool...... I mean anyone who wants more than the minimum wage is just pure greedy.....
why do people become landlords? Out of the goodness of their hearts?
Lot's of reasons. Sometimes the job moves for a period of time so you let the house for that period with a view to returning eventually once the job move is complete.
@Rob7Lee is a trustee of a Friendly Society. Back when the Friendly Society was formed the motivation was philanthropic and altruistic in an attempt to relieve homelessness by building affordable in the literal (rather than the political connotations of that word in this context today) homes people could rent. However as a Trustee he has a duty of care to obtain the best return he can for the present day members of the Friendly Society. Hence given greater compliance responsibilities via net zero bollocks etc and the increased costs as a consequence the options left to him are rent increases or sell the properties. Either way it is the existing tenants who suffer.
100% correct.
I have a three year cycle, every three years all investments are revalued (the properties for both their open market value and rental value, one of the societies rules is we have to charge a minimum of 85% of the market rental value) and I have to show why keeping as is (or changing) is the right thing to do to obtain the best possible return for the members I represent. I will receive those valuations in the next two weeks.
I managed to just about do that three years ago but it was very marginal. But in all honesty I've almost no chance this time around, even if I massively push the rents up (which for some I would have no option as they have fallen well below the 85% mark) it's still unlikely I could yield more than 2.5%. Our business current account linked saver with Santander pays 4.73%!
Bizarrely being a good landlord doesn't help. Our properties are kept in tip top condition, the net effect of that is we net less rent than we possibly could do and the properties being in such good condition are at the high end value for the roads etc. As an example mostly last year into early this year we increased the insulation in every loft to over 300mm to aide tenants heating bills. We also renewed 14 boilers that were over 10 years old for the same reason. I also had all doors and windows checked and we replaced a number of those (around £80k's worth)
So whilst the reason we are likely to sell is very different to most, it is almost solely down to rental values increasing as they have as well as property prices.
why do people become landlords? Out of the goodness of their hearts?
Lot's of reasons. Sometimes the job moves for a period of time so you let the house for that period with a view to returning eventually once the job move is complete.
@Rob7Lee is a trustee of a Friendly Society. Back when the Friendly Society was formed the motivation was philanthropic and altruistic in an attempt to relieve homelessness by building affordable in the literal (rather than the political connotations of that word in this context today) homes people could rent. However as a Trustee he has a duty of care to obtain the best return he can for the present day members of the Friendly Society. Hence given greater compliance responsibilities via net zero bollocks etc and the increased costs as a consequence the options left to him are rent increases or sell the properties. Either way it is the existing tenants who suffer.
Pretty terrible financial management to not have any mortgage on the properties and have to sell because of costs have increased to maintain the property to make them liveable. Quite extraordinary, in fact. How did that happen? Was it greed?
Hopefully my answer above answers your prosperous comment, but to be clear:
I have a duty to the members to obtain the best return on THEIR funds. Sadly I am no longer going to be able to show that our property letting does that. Whilst it may make 1/4 of a million I could quite easily achieve £800k elsewhere (and also de-risk the portfolio as we are too heavy/reliant on property).
I probably could if I wanted to, by maxing out everyones rent and likely losing over half the existing tenants and as long as I do not spend a single penny on repairs or anything that goes wrong and make up some numbers that over the next 3 year cycle property prices will increase by 15%.
so i was right, that's a very long winded way of saying simply "greed". It's just an investment to the members, they're not providing property to rent out of the goodness of their hearts. I don't know why investing in property seems to make people lose all sense that it's an investment that could go up and could go down. You're fair enough to see the best return for your members, but don't pretend it isn't primarily, maybe exclusively, driven by greed.
No you are not, aside from this individual situation around friendly societies, getting the best return on an investment is not greed, it's common sense. If you don't understand that basic principle I despair, as has been mentioned above I'm sure with anything you invest in you are doing so to try to make the most money within your risk appetite.
As for friendly societies, and Ive said this more than once, I have a duty to look after members money making sure that it performs to the optimum and rightly so. I've really tried to balance that with the tenants as much as I humanly can, you could ask all bar one of our 50+ tenant families and all will say we are a fantastic Landlord and are so appreciative that we always look after them and nothing is too much trouble, hence why many of out tenants have been so for decades which will make any decision all that much harder, I have one last card up my sleeve which I hope the board will go for, but I'm not more than 50/50 confident.
But yer, it's just greed right?
You’re going to kick people out of their homes for a few more % in yield and you think that’s not greed?
I hope your last card comes off!
I literally give up with you, which bit of what I have described, the rules and regulations I have to abide by, do you not understand?
You ok with an FA purposely putting your money in the worst investments, as that's broadly what you are suggesting I do with millions of pounds of members money. I'm sure when that came out in the press you'd be defending me to the hilt.
If he was greedy or let's say irresponsible, he would have either sold all the properties or jacked up the rents and not done the non statutory repair and maintenance work. Then taken all that residual cash and given it to Vanguard or Bailie Gifford who really can introduce us to the definition of greed, or let's say responsibly managing an investment
There are greedy, irresponsible, unpleasant and unsuitable property owners aplenty. A mate of mine lives in a home owned by one such person but @Rob7Lee doesn't sound like he falls into that category nor is he expecting something for nothing.
As it stands we live in a runaway capitalist economy where government-provided housing is (wrongly) in massive short supply. Its criminal that the people who sold all those council properties didn't reinvest that capital into building more and building them in sustainable places creating communities but they didn't so we are where we are. If these people didn't buy properties to rent out those properties wouldn't all of a sudden become affordable to buy. I'm not im anyway defending scumbag landlords, obviously. I will understand why people I know who don't have pensions have invested in property and if they can ride it out, fine, if they can't. Like I say, careful what you wish for, we are conjuring a perfect storm currently. There are not a load of benevolent, charitable people ready to swoop in and single handedly make life better for renters but there are a lot of venture capitalists, chancers, investors and greedy entities who will be more than happy to take on repossessed properties, boot tenants out or jack rents up
It’s greed because he’s getting a return but could get a better return somewhere else, so he’ll liquidate his assets to invest in another. It’s greed. The reason why people become landlords is to accumulate wealth, ie, greed. As you say, we live in a capitalist society, as they say - greed is good. But don’t be surprised when it bites you on the backside occasionally or claim to be some moral outrider because you provide housing to renters.
Isn’t that you trying to profit from the scarcity of bitcoin and wanting people to pay more and more for it in order for your portfolios value to grow ?
What about those who want bitcoin but most of it has been hoovered up by people/institutions with more money than them?
Are you not just sitting there waiting for your investment to grow?
Yes, but I’m fully aware of the risks and only have myself to blame if it goes tits up. Price can go up and price can also go down. I don’t go crying saying it’s got more difficult to make money or that price isn’t always going up. I’m not expecting something for nothing.
This is becoming one of the most ludicrous conversations I think i've ever seen on here.
So someone who realises their £5k they leave in their current account earning no interest could be better placed in NS&I at 6.2% is greedy if they liquidate it and move it?
I really shouldn't have took my latest job in 2020, I'm sure had I hung around long enough someone would have paid me less, I'm such a fool...... I mean anyone who wants more than the minimum wage is just pure greedy.....
I mean, yeah, it’s not necessarily a bad thing to be greedy. But I’m just saying that you can’t claim being a landlord is some moral service when in actuality it’s driven by greed.
Isn’t that you trying to profit from the scarcity of bitcoin and wanting people to pay more and more for it in order for your portfolios value to grow ?
What about those who want bitcoin but most of it has been hoovered up by people/institutions with more money than them?
Are you not just sitting there waiting for your investment to grow?
Difference is that when bitcoin goes down people aren't saying we should help the investors out as they're 'such an important part of society'.
Landlords are investors, they aren't saviours and shouldn't be treated as such.
Who has said we should help out Landlords?
During COVID the Government told renters they had a moratorium on paying rents if they wanted it but the landlords still had to pay their mortgages (not arguing with either by the way just pointing it out). Govt has increased tax for landlords, has increased costs (Min EPCs etc), has reduced /removed benefits like offsetting interest/overseas ownership models etc (all a good thing imo by the way). It has been a crippling time for landlords which has seen vast numbers exit the market. Whatever your thoughts on all of that are the reality is that the UK does need landlords. Some people choose to rent and would not want to buy - students; people doing a job placement; single people who prefer the company of others in rented accommodation etc etc. There are many reasons people rent.
As for all landlords being greedy.. becoming a landlord is typically done as an investment; it is greedy in the same way being in the stock market is greedy; picking the best interest rate on a savings account is greedy; buying bit coin is greedy etc.
Of course property prices can go down as well as up. I am not sure the relevance of that point. Those landlords who did not realise that are not greedy, they are stupid.
Isn’t that you trying to profit from the scarcity of bitcoin and wanting people to pay more and more for it in order for your portfolios value to grow ?
What about those who want bitcoin but most of it has been hoovered up by people/institutions with more money than them?
Are you not just sitting there waiting for your investment to grow?
Difference is that when bitcoin goes down people aren't saying we should help the investors out as they're 'such an important part of society'.
Landlords are investors, they aren't saviours and shouldn't be treated as such.
Who has said we should help out Landlords?
During COVID the Government told renters they had a moratorium on paying rents if they wanted it but the landlords still had to pay their mortgages (not arguing with either by the way just pointing it out). Govt has increased tax for landlords, has increased costs (Min EPCs etc), has reduced /removed benefits like offsetting interest/overseas ownership models etc (all a good thing imo by the way). It has been a crippling time for landlords which has seen vast numbers exit the market. Whatever your thoughts on all of that are the reality is that the UK does need landlords. Some people choose to rent and would not want to buy - students; people doing a job placement; single people who prefer the company of others in rented accommodation etc etc. There are many reasons people rent.
As for all landlords being greedy.. becoming a landlord is typically done as an investment; it is greedy in the same way being in the stock market is greedy; picking the best interest rate on a savings account is greedy; buying bit coin is greedy etc.
Of course property prices can go down as well as up. I am not sure the relevance of that point. Those landlords who did not realise that are not greedy, they are stupid.
If it means less people doing BTL converting (poorly) a house into 4-6 rooms for tenants then I'm all for it. That is greed and what I have the biggest issue with. Trying to maximise on profit by reducing quality of living for potential tenants just to herd more in.
Isn’t that you trying to profit from the scarcity of bitcoin and wanting people to pay more and more for it in order for your portfolios value to grow ?
What about those who want bitcoin but most of it has been hoovered up by people/institutions with more money than them?
Are you not just sitting there waiting for your investment to grow?
Difference is that when bitcoin goes down people aren't saying we should help the investors out as they're 'such an important part of society'.
Landlords are investors, they aren't saviours and shouldn't be treated as such.
Who has said we should help out Landlords?
During COVID the Government told renters they had a moratorium on paying rents if they wanted it but the landlords still had to pay their mortgages (not arguing with either by the way just pointing it out). Govt has increased tax for landlords, has increased costs (Min EPCs etc), has reduced /removed benefits like offsetting interest/overseas ownership models etc (all a good thing imo by the way). It has been a crippling time for landlords which has seen vast numbers exit the market. Whatever your thoughts on all of that are the reality is that the UK does need landlords. Some people choose to rent and would not want to buy - students; people doing a job placement; single people who prefer the company of others in rented accommodation etc etc. There are many reasons people rent.
As for all landlords being greedy.. becoming a landlord is typically done as an investment; it is greedy in the same way being in the stock market is greedy; picking the best interest rate on a savings account is greedy; buying bit coin is greedy etc.
Of course property prices can go down as well as up. I am not sure the relevance of that point. Those landlords who did not realise that are not greedy, they are stupid.
If it means less people doing BTL converting (poorly) a house into 4-6 rooms for tenants then I'm all for it. That is greed and what I have the biggest issue with. Trying to maximise on profit by reducing quality of living for potential tenants just to herd more in.
I agree with this that the less scrupulous have created exceeding over crowded poor quality rental accommodation by making every room a bedroom and then filling each room with multiple people. That practice I horrible and I have been unfortunate to see some examples of this. Sadly with the increased costs (interest/running costs/tax etc) then these sorts of houses will be the only ones which generate cash to pay mortgages so the cumulative effect could mean more rather than less of these types of property.
If he was greedy or let's say irresponsible, he would have either sold all the properties or jacked up the rents and not done the non statutory repair and maintenance work. Then taken all that residual cash and given it to Vanguard or Bailie Gifford who really can introduce us to the definition of greed, or let's say responsibly managing an investment
There are greedy, irresponsible, unpleasant and unsuitable property owners aplenty. A mate of mine lives in a home owned by one such person but @Rob7Lee doesn't sound like he falls into that category nor is he expecting something for nothing.
As it stands we live in a runaway capitalist economy where government-provided housing is (wrongly) in massive short supply. Its criminal that the people who sold all those council properties didn't reinvest that capital into building more and building them in sustainable places creating communities but they didn't so we are where we are. If these people didn't buy properties to rent out those properties wouldn't all of a sudden become affordable to buy. I'm not im anyway defending scumbag landlords, obviously. I will understand why people I know who don't have pensions have invested in property and if they can ride it out, fine, if they can't. Like I say, careful what you wish for, we are conjuring a perfect storm currently. There are not a load of benevolent, charitable people ready to swoop in and single handedly make life better for renters but there are a lot of venture capitalists, chancers, investors and greedy entities who will be more than happy to take on repossessed properties, boot tenants out or jack rents up
It’s greed because he’s getting a return but could get a better return somewhere else, so he’ll liquidate his assets to invest in another. It’s greed. The reason why people become landlords is to accumulate wealth, ie, greed. As you say, we live in a capitalist society, as they say - greed is good. But don’t be surprised when it bites you on the backside occasionally or claim to be some moral outrider because you provide housing to renters.
Isn’t that you trying to profit from the scarcity of bitcoin and wanting people to pay more and more for it in order for your portfolios value to grow ?
What about those who want bitcoin but most of it has been hoovered up by people/institutions with more money than them?
Are you not just sitting there waiting for your investment to grow?
Yes, but I’m fully aware of the risks and only have myself to blame if it goes tits up. Price can go up and price can also go down. I don’t go crying saying it’s got more difficult to make money or that price isn’t always going up. I’m not expecting something for nothing.
This is becoming one of the most ludicrous conversations I think i've ever seen on here.
So someone who realises their £5k they leave in their current account earning no interest could be better placed in NS&I at 6.2% is greedy if they liquidate it and move it?
I really shouldn't have took my latest job in 2020, I'm sure had I hung around long enough someone would have paid me less, I'm such a fool...... I mean anyone who wants more than the minimum wage is just pure greedy.....
I mean, yeah, it’s not necessarily a bad thing to be greedy. But I’m just saying that you can’t claim being a landlord is some moral service when in actuality it’s driven by greed.
I think you have to much time on your hands during the day and think all landlords are of the type that feature on Homes Under The Hammer. You have a very blinkered view of what a landlord is and how people become one. Your tedious argument seems very Russell Brandish to me. But however many times you say the same thing doesn't make it true.
Anyway, often people become landlords almost by accident.
So I'll give you a couple of examples. People get transferred abroad to work on a two-year secondment. They want to occupy their house again when they come home. In the meantime they rent it out for a couple of years to offset the costs of their mortgage; or like the home next door to me - the occupant died and the beneficiaries of the will decide to rent out the property rather than take the cash. They didn't see themselves as investment professionals and saw that as a better option than dumping their money on Hargreaves Lansdown; and my friend who has moved in with her boyfriend but is not 100% sure the relationship is long-term. So she has kept her flat in Putney as a security blanket but rents it out in the meantime. As things currently stand she is losing money every month and is now seriously considering leaving the rental market but keeping her flat empty. It would cost her a little more but cut out all the very tedious aggravation she is currently having to put up with.
Apparently 43% of landlords own just one rental property. They are not Peter Rachman revisited.
Comments
I still don't understand where the something for nothing is
@Rob7Lee is a trustee of a Friendly Society. Back when the Friendly Society was formed the motivation was philanthropic and altruistic in an attempt to relieve homelessness by building affordable in the literal (rather than the political connotations of that word in this context today) homes people could rent. However as a Trustee he has a duty of care to obtain the best return he can for the present day members of the Friendly Society. Hence given greater compliance responsibilities via net zero bollocks etc and the increased costs as a consequence the options left to him are rent increases or sell the properties. Either way it is the existing tenants who suffer.
It can’t be beyond the wit of man to link affordability to incomes.
The current situation makes the notion of ‘affordable’ seem all pink and fluffy when it is more closely related to profit rather than an honest day’s work.
I have a three year cycle, every three years all investments are revalued (the properties for both their open market value and rental value, one of the societies rules is we have to charge a minimum of 85% of the market rental value) and I have to show why keeping as is (or changing) is the right thing to do to obtain the best possible return for the members I represent. I will receive those valuations in the next two weeks.
I managed to just about do that three years ago but it was very marginal. But in all honesty I've almost no chance this time around, even if I massively push the rents up (which for some I would have no option as they have fallen well below the 85% mark) it's still unlikely I could yield more than 2.5%. Our business current account linked saver with Santander pays 4.73%!
Bizarrely being a good landlord doesn't help. Our properties are kept in tip top condition, the net effect of that is we net less rent than we possibly could do and the properties being in such good condition are at the high end value for the roads etc. As an example mostly last year into early this year we increased the insulation in every loft to over 300mm to aide tenants heating bills. We also renewed 14 boilers that were over 10 years old for the same reason. I also had all doors and windows checked and we replaced a number of those (around £80k's worth)
So whilst the reason we are likely to sell is very different to most, it is almost solely down to rental values increasing as they have as well as property prices.
Hopefully my answer above answers your prosperous comment, but to be clear:
I have a duty to the members to obtain the best return on THEIR funds. Sadly I am no longer going to be able to show that our property letting does that. Whilst it may make 1/4 of a million I could quite easily achieve £800k elsewhere (and also de-risk the portfolio as we are too heavy/reliant on property).
I probably could if I wanted to, by maxing out everyones rent and likely losing over half the existing tenants and as long as I do not spend a single penny on repairs or anything that goes wrong and make up some numbers that over the next 3 year cycle property prices will increase by 15%.
If he was greedy or let's say irresponsible, he would have either sold all the properties or jacked up the rents and not done the non statutory repair and maintenance work. Then taken all that residual cash and given it to Vanguard or Bailie Gifford who really can introduce us to the definition of greed, or let's say responsibly managing an investment
There are greedy, irresponsible, unpleasant and unsuitable property owners aplenty. A mate of mine lives in a home owned by one such person but @Rob7Lee doesn't sound like he falls into that category nor is he expecting something for nothing.
As it stands we live in a runaway capitalist economy where government-provided housing is (wrongly) in massive short supply. Its criminal that the people who sold all those council properties didn't reinvest that capital into building more and building them in sustainable places creating communities but they didn't so we are where we are. If these people didn't buy properties to rent out those properties wouldn't all of a sudden become affordable to buy. I'm not im anyway defending scumbag landlords, obviously. I will understand why people I know who don't have pensions have invested in property and if they can ride it out, fine, if they can't. Like I say, careful what you wish for, we are conjuring a perfect storm currently. There are not a load of benevolent, charitable people ready to swoop in and single handedly make life better for renters but there are a lot of venture capitalists, chancers, investors and greedy entities who will be more than happy to take on repossessed properties, boot tenants out or jack rents up
Landlords are investors, they aren't saviours and shouldn't be treated as such.
As for friendly societies, and Ive said this more than once, I have a duty to look after members money making sure that it performs to the optimum and rightly so. I've really tried to balance that with the tenants as much as I humanly can, you could ask all bar one of our 50+ tenant families and all will say we are a fantastic Landlord and are so appreciative that we always look after them and nothing is too much trouble, hence why many of out tenants have been so for decades which will make any decision all that much harder, I have one last card up my sleeve which I hope the board will go for, but I'm not more than 50/50 confident.
But yer, it's just greed right?
So someone who realises their £5k they leave in their current account earning no interest could be better placed in NS&I at 6.2% is greedy if they liquidate it and move it?
I really shouldn't have took my latest job in 2020, I'm sure had I hung around long enough someone would have paid me less, I'm such a fool...... I mean anyone who wants more than the minimum wage is just pure greedy.....
You ok with an FA purposely putting your money in the worst investments, as that's broadly what you are suggesting I do with millions of pounds of members money. I'm sure when that came out in the press you'd be defending me to the hilt.
Who has said we should help out Landlords?
During COVID the Government told renters they had a moratorium on paying rents if they wanted it but the landlords still had to pay their mortgages (not arguing with either by the way just pointing it out).
Govt has increased tax for landlords, has increased costs (Min EPCs etc), has reduced /removed benefits like offsetting interest/overseas ownership models etc (all a good thing imo by the way).
It has been a crippling time for landlords which has seen vast numbers exit the market.
Whatever your thoughts on all of that are the reality is that the UK does need landlords. Some people choose to rent and would not want to buy - students; people doing a job placement; single people who prefer the company of others in rented accommodation etc etc. There are many reasons people rent.
As for all landlords being greedy.. becoming a landlord is typically done as an investment; it is greedy in the same way being in the stock market is greedy; picking the best interest rate on a savings account is greedy; buying bit coin is greedy etc.
Of course property prices can go down as well as up. I am not sure the relevance of that point. Those landlords who did not realise that are not greedy, they are stupid.
I agree with this that the less scrupulous have created exceeding over crowded poor quality rental accommodation by making every room a bedroom and then filling each room with multiple people. That practice I horrible and I have been unfortunate to see some examples of this.
Sadly with the increased costs (interest/running costs/tax etc) then these sorts of houses will be the only ones which generate cash to pay mortgages so the cumulative effect could mean more rather than less of these types of property.
Anyway, often people become landlords almost by accident.
So I'll give you a couple of examples. People get transferred abroad to work on a two-year secondment. They want to occupy their house again when they come home. In the meantime they rent it out for a couple of years to offset the costs of their mortgage; or like the home next door to me - the occupant died and the beneficiaries of the will decide to rent out the property rather than take the cash. They didn't see themselves as investment professionals and saw that as a better option than dumping their money on Hargreaves Lansdown; and my friend who has moved in with her boyfriend but is not 100% sure the relationship is long-term. So she has kept her flat in Putney as a security blanket but rents it out in the meantime. As things currently stand she is losing money every month and is now seriously considering leaving the rental market but keeping her flat empty. It would cost her a little more but cut out all the very tedious aggravation she is currently having to put up with.
Apparently 43% of landlords own just one rental property. They are not Peter Rachman revisited.