I can't see the Jimmy Seed failing any safety requirements that couldn't be fixed easily. It's a simple roof over a concrete terrace, and was upgraded to 90s safety standards when we returned. Of course a larger and better stand would be desirable, but won't be needed until we're in the PL or at least a top Championship club.
The general public facilities around the ground do need improvement, the toilets, the bars etc. Even if the Curbs stand isn't expanded, the area of wasteland behind the stands does feel like a waste, maybe it could be dug out to create a covered bar area. The roof would be low enough to not affect the houses behind.
I was told by someone at the club that when the Jimmy Seed Stand sign was replaced it couldn't actually be placed to look completely straight as they found that the JS stand was actually slowly sinking.
Yes it was designed to match the current state of the team itself.
I can't see the Jimmy Seed failing any safety requirements that couldn't be fixed easily. It's a simple roof over a concrete terrace, and was upgraded to 90s safety standards when we returned. Of course a larger and better stand would be desirable, but won't be needed until we're in the PL or at least a top Championship club.
The general public facilities around the ground do need improvement, the toilets, the bars etc. Even if the Curbs stand isn't expanded, the area of wasteland behind the stands does feel like a waste, maybe it could be dug out to create a covered bar area. The roof would be low enough to not affect the houses behind.
I was told by someone at the club that when the Jimmy Seed Stand sign was replaced it couldn't actually be placed to look completely straight as they found that the JS stand was actually slowly sinking.
To be fair it's been reopened for 30 years and it's still the same as it was then so think there's bound to be a few issues with the stand.
It needs rebuilding but the question is who's going to pay for it.
So when the Covered end sing the "going down" chant at the opposition fans, they're actually referring to the stand, rather than their team!
I remember six years ago there was a debate here as to whether we should renovate The Valley one stand at a time or build a new stadium nearby. We were in League One at the time, just as we are now.
But given when we were in The Championship the stands were 1/2 empty on average (only 14,500 average attendance before Covid,) I wonder if there is simply no reason to do either? I know this is not relevant as long as RD owns it, but even if he did not I don't see the logic on doing anything but keeping The Valley standing from an economic standpoint.
Other clubs around the same time seemed similarly gung-ho about major renovations and rebuilds. Palace, Birmingham, Wolves... none have happened and plans have been delayed or scrapped. Wolves wanted a new 40,000 upgrade but decided to pass because even in the PL there was not enough demand to justify it. Even Chelsea scrapped their plans long before the Ukraine invasion forced ownership changes there. The owners of ManU would rather sell than sink money into their stadium, which says a lot given they make more money than any club on the planet. We are not ManU.
Is there really any reason to spend money upgrading stands at The Valley when we can barely fill half of it in The Championship? What's the incentive for any owner to do so? Liverpool expanded attendances with their new stand but we don't have a wait list for season tickets. We did not have a single sellout in our sole season in The Championship. The most we got was 25k in one match.
Times seem to have changed since the last time we were down here in League One. Not solely for us but for almost all clubs, it seems. I sense the younger generation does not care about football as much as video games and Tik-Tok. As older fans go away, why spend millions upgrading a stadium when the next generation does not plan on coming?
Curious how others feel about it, both for us and in general in football.
Love to see the JS stand match that CE but I just don't see it happening, probably ever, meanwhile there're plenty of other parts that need attention, who pays for it I have no idea, but it does need attention, such a shame .
I remember six years ago there was a debate here as to whether we should renovate The Valley one stand at a time or build a new stadium nearby. We were in League One at the time, just as we are now.
But given when we were in The Championship the stands were 1/2 empty on average (only 14,500 average attendance before Covid,) I wonder if there is simply no reason to do either? I know this is not relevant as long as RD owns it, but even if he did not I don't see the logic on doing anything but keeping The Valley standing from an economic standpoint.
Other clubs around the same time seemed similarly gung-ho about major renovations and rebuilds. Palace, Birmingham, Wolves... none have happened and plans have been delayed or scrapped. Wolves wanted a new 40,000 upgrade but decided to pass because even in the PL there was not enough demand to justify it. Even Chelsea scrapped their plans long before the Ukraine invasion forced ownership changes there. The owners of ManU would rather sell than sink money into their stadium, which says a lot given they make more money than any club on the planet. We are not ManU.
Is there really any reason to spend money upgrading stands at The Valley when we can barely fill half of it in The Championship? What's the incentive for any owner to do so? Liverpool expanded attendances with their new stand but we don't have a wait list for season tickets. We did not have a single sellout in our sole season in The Championship. The most we got was 25k in one match.
Times seem to have changed since the last time we were down here in League One. Not solely for us but for almost all clubs, it seems. I sense the younger generation does not care about football as much as video games and Tik-Tok. As older fans go away, why spend millions upgrading a stadium when the next generation does not plan on coming?
Curious how others feel about it, both for us and in general in football.
Any hope of expansion went when we got relegated from the Premier League (and doubt will resurface unless we get back there).
There was a thread on here about it from 2011. From what I can gather the T40K committee was still in operation then, but was more concerned with ways of trying to keep attendances up in more general terms than with any development The Valley. https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/39286/target-40000/p1
Love to see the JS stand match that CE but I just don't see it happening, probably ever, meanwhile there're plenty of other parts that need attention, who pays for it I have no idea, but it does need attention, such a shame .
If it needs fixing I would confidently say we/the club have to pay for it, not the landlord (Roland)
I remember six years ago there was a debate here as to whether we should renovate The Valley one stand at a time or build a new stadium nearby. We were in League One at the time, just as we are now.
But given when we were in The Championship the stands were 1/2 empty on average (only 14,500 average attendance before Covid,) I wonder if there is simply no reason to do either? I know this is not relevant as long as RD owns it, but even if he did not I don't see the logic on doing anything but keeping The Valley standing from an economic standpoint.
Other clubs around the same time seemed similarly gung-ho about major renovations and rebuilds. Palace, Birmingham, Wolves... none have happened and plans have been delayed or scrapped. Wolves wanted a new 40,000 upgrade but decided to pass because even in the PL there was not enough demand to justify it. Even Chelsea scrapped their plans long before the Ukraine invasion forced ownership changes there. The owners of ManU would rather sell than sink money into their stadium, which says a lot given they make more money than any club on the planet. We are not ManU.
Is there really any reason to spend money upgrading stands at The Valley when we can barely fill half of it in The Championship? What's the incentive for any owner to do so? Liverpool expanded attendances with their new stand but we don't have a wait list for season tickets. We did not have a single sellout in our sole season in The Championship. The most we got was 25k in one match.
Times seem to have changed since the last time we were down here in League One. Not solely for us but for almost all clubs, it seems. I sense the younger generation does not care about football as much as video games and Tik-Tok. As older fans go away, why spend millions upgrading a stadium when the next generation does not plan on coming?
Curious how others feel about it, both for us and in general in football.
Any hope of expansion went when we got relegated from the Premier League (and doubt will resurface unless we get back there).
There was a thread on here about it from 2011. From what I can gather the T40K committee was still in operation then, but was more concerned with ways of trying to keep attendances up in more general terms than with any development The Valley. https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/39286/target-40000/p1
Even in the Championship I think we’d struggle to get 20k regularly unless we were competing at the top or had a match against big opposition. I think the impacts of the awful period that we’ve experienced over the past decade and a half will really be seen for a long time after it ends (if it ever ends!).
Don’t think we would need more general seats in the Premier League if we ever got back there, but would need real investment in hospitality and general infrastructure
General infrastructure would be the big thing , would need bigger press facilities, probably have to build a bigger studio for Sky . From what I've read from other teams that get promoted it's a lot of behind the scenes stuff.
General infrastructure would be the big thing , would need bigger press facilities, probably have to build a bigger studio for Sky . From what I've read from other teams that get promoted it's a lot of behind the scenes stuff.
It was about £10m spent on Portman Road in the summer for example.
Weirdly me and my dad were talking about this the other day. Clearly The Home of Football (Scott Minto quote) needs a bit of TLC and repair. I know that thoughts of expanding the ground are frankly ridiculous at this moment, but if we ever get successful enough to do it I'd like to keep the JSS as a seperate structure, but upgrade it (no pillar in the middle!). I think it adds a lot of character to the ground and I like the fact our stands have some irregularity.
Improvements to the Valley would be driven by how well we’re doing in the league. I can’t see much happening with us being in L1 or in the Championship for that matter. If we’re ever pushing, or actually, in the Premiership then maybe. So, a long way off I would say.
Improvements to the Valley would be driven by how well we’re doing in the league. I can’t see much happening with us being in L1 or in the Championship for that matter. If we’re ever pushing, or actually, in the Premiership then maybe. So, a long way off I would say.
We would need new floodlights in the Championship for example, need to be UHD ready, and support Goal line Technology, other bits could wait for a crazed summer post going up
Get real!!! - the ground is owned by RD, he has no reason to improve the Valley and the current leaseholders would be foolish to improve an asset that they don't own.
If we got promoted back to the premier league we would obviously need more hospitality and media space. The solution that springs to mind is lose the top tier of the west stand, allowing expansion of the press gallery and two levels of executive boxes/studio space/etc. where the seating currently is. You'd need to maintain a least some seating up there, maybe a handful of rows between the press gantry and the executive boxes to allow continued use of the lounge up there.
Then expand the Jimmy seed, filling in the corners, raising the roof to match the Curbishly stand and extend backwards. Overall capacity would be around 32k, but with massively more hospitality and media space. There's also room for another 4 or 5 boxes at the back of the Curbishley stand, but alone that won't add much income.
Of course this is all pie in the sky, nothing is happening whilst we don't own the ground, nor whilst we're 2 promotions away from the promised land.
Get real!!! - the ground is owned by RD, he has no reason to improve the Valley and the current leaseholders would be foolish to improve an asset that they don't own.
Is that not Roland's responsibility though? If we lease the ground it should be fit for purpose (floodlights etc), right? Obviously it's not his responsibility to expand it though.
Edit. I think a lot of people were just talking about hypothetical improvements btw. But floodlights and stuff are very real concerns for when we're playing championship football next season 😉
Get real!!! - the ground is owned by RD, he has no reason to improve the Valley and the current leaseholders would be foolish to improve an asset that they don't own.
This.
Also, the owners don't seem to want to put their hands in their collective pockets to spend £500k on a player......hardly going to spend £10m + upgrading an asset they dont own.
Let’s face it, the only money that our current owners will spend on the Valley will be to keep it ticking over and to comply with safety standards
If rumors are to be believed they have made a mess of the new pitch trying to maintain it on the cheap and we can all see the floodlights need investment
Just to come at this from a slightly different angle - I've been to Spurs new stadium for example, and while it is all very nice I found it all a bit sterile and detached when I was actually there trying to watch the game. I really enjoy my experiences at the Valley and it still feels magical to me, like I can feel the history all around me, even the walk up to the stadium and I wouldn't want that to change for anything.
Having said that sorting out the pitch and the floodlights are an absolute must, because I find that a bit embarrassing to be honest, in fact i'd say it's bordering on being a bit dangerous now.
Get real!!! - the ground is owned by RD, he has no reason to improve the Valley and the current leaseholders would be foolish to improve an asset that they don't own.
Is that not Roland's responsibility though? If we lease the ground it should be fit for purpose (floodlights etc), right? Obviously it's not his responsibility to expand it though.
Edit. I think a lot of people were just talking about hypothetical improvements btw. But floodlights and stuff are very real concerns for when we're playing championship football next season 😉
No, It is a standard commercial FRI lease. That means it is the tenants (us) responsibility to fully repair and insure the building at all times whilst under the lease.
Let’s face it, the only money that our current owners will spend on the Valley will be to keep it ticking over and to comply with safety standards
If rumors are to be believed they have made a mess of the new pitch trying to maintain it on the cheap and we can all see the floodlights need investment
They talked about putting solar panels on the roof, that may happen if they could get most of it covered by grant funding and see a pay back within the residual lease term I guess.
General infrastructure would be the big thing , would need bigger press facilities, probably have to build a bigger studio for Sky . From what I've read from other teams that get promoted it's a lot of behind the scenes stuff.
Just ban the TV , that way people that wanted to watch football would have to come to the game.
If we stay in L1 for 5 more seasons, I reckon we'll be looking to downgrade to a smaller venue fit for L2.
Sad if it happens. Think I'd rather we went out of business.
God, i've depressed myself again!
Considering the MK franchise has a ground that is 30.500 capacity* and have only been out of the Leagues 1+2 once since it was built. Then I would doubt that for us.
Yes cause our flood lights are shite, and the toilet door on trap 3 still hasn't been fixed. If some one walks in on me again when I am squeezing one out I'll scream. And for God sake don't get me going on the bloody turnstiles in the Alan Curbs Stand 🥴
It is moot point. The Belgian is not going to make improvements and it would be foolish for whoever is owning the club to do anything more than the bare minimum to have an acceptable level of maintenance
If we got promoted back to the premier league we would obviously need more hospitality and media space. The solution that springs to mind is lose the top tier of the west stand, allowing expansion of the press gallery and two levels of executive boxes/studio space/etc. where the seating currently is. You'd need to maintain a least some seating up there, maybe a handful of rows between the press gantry and the executive boxes to allow continued use of the lounge up there.
Then expand the Jimmy seed, filling in the corners, raising the roof to match the Curbishly stand and extend backwards. Overall capacity would be around 32k, but with massively more hospitality and media space. There's also room for another 4 or 5 boxes at the back of the Curbishley stand, but alone that won't add much income.
Of course this is all pie in the sky, nothing is happening whilst we don't own the ground, nor whilst we're 2 promotions away from the promised land.
It’s unlikely there would be any need to expand the pressbox as we’ve actually got one of the biggest going - it runs the full length of the West Upper which allows for a very generous number of attendees. It’s quite unusual for pressboxes to be laid out in that way, but does allow for more seats.
The only other example I’ve seen which is similar is the pressbox at Wolves’ Molineux (although it’s been a few years now since we’ve been there so may have changed since).
The main media expansion would be finding space for extra tv interview rooms. There is ‘unused’ space on the first floor of the west which could accommodate for that, in theory.
I was a season ticket holder through the Premier league years. The only years you needed a season ticket was then and the year we won the Championship. Had we not got relegated from the Premier League, didn't we have planning permission for expansion, we would probably be fully enclosed. If it is going to happen the success of the team is going to be the biggest factor.
Before we get head ourselves talking about Championship, PL and ownership of the ground.
What the current SMT need to do is give us supporters who go, a fully functioning stadium, e.g floodlights that work for the whole pitch, lights working in staircases, turnstiles that work, an audiable PA system, removal of out of date posters
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So when the Covered end sing the "going down" chant at the opposition fans, they're actually referring to the stand, rather than their team!
Any hope of expansion went when we got relegated from the Premier League (and doubt will resurface unless we get back there).
By 2015, a T20K initiative had been set up. Even that seems hopelessly overambitious, if not then, certainly now. https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/70190/target-20-000-launched/p1
Then expand the Jimmy seed, filling in the corners, raising the roof to match the Curbishly stand and extend backwards. Overall capacity would be around 32k, but with massively more hospitality and media space. There's also room for another 4 or 5 boxes at the back of the Curbishley stand, but alone that won't add much income.
Of course this is all pie in the sky, nothing is happening whilst we don't own the ground, nor whilst we're 2 promotions away from the promised land.
Edit. I think a lot of people were just talking about hypothetical improvements btw. But floodlights and stuff are very real concerns for when we're playing championship football next season 😉
Also, the owners don't seem to want to put their hands in their collective pockets to spend £500k on a player......hardly going to spend £10m + upgrading an asset they dont own.
If rumors are to be believed they have made a mess of the new pitch trying to maintain it on the cheap and we can all see the floodlights need investment
Having said that sorting out the pitch and the floodlights are an absolute must, because I find that a bit embarrassing to be honest, in fact i'd say it's bordering on being a bit dangerous now.
No, It is a standard commercial FRI lease. That means it is the tenants (us) responsibility to fully repair and insure the building at all times whilst under the lease.
They talked about putting solar panels on the roof, that may happen if they could get most of it covered by grant funding and see a pay back within the residual lease term I guess.
Sad if it happens. Think I'd rather we went out of business.
God, i've depressed myself again!
*Stadium built in 2007
It’s quite unusual for pressboxes to be laid out in that way, but does allow for more seats.
The only other example I’ve seen which is similar is the pressbox at Wolves’ Molineux (although it’s been a few years now since we’ve been there so may have changed since).
The main media expansion would be finding space for extra tv interview rooms. There is ‘unused’ space on the first floor of the west which could accommodate for that, in theory.
What the current SMT need to do is give us supporters who go, a fully functioning stadium, e.g floodlights that work for the whole pitch, lights working in staircases, turnstiles that work, an audiable PA system, removal of out of date posters