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England Cricket 2023

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  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,734
    killerandflash said:
    Can Stokes bowl offspin? Would be less strain on his knee...
    That really would be desperation. If we think the Aussies will take on Leach, who has bowled spin all his life, then I fear the car park stewards would be under threat should Stokes do so. Whoever they pick now they will be targeted be that Rehan Ahmed or Will Jacks or anyone else for that matter. At least Rehan Ahmed offers an element of the unknown.
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,308
    Will Jacks would be an all time awful selection 
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,308
    Fucking Surrey, not developing Virdi. More talent there than in the rest of 'em combined. Jack Carson is a potential bolter. Bess would be kicking the TV territory 
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,308
    Liam Dawson is another name 
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,308
    And...where's Liam Patterson-White? Not seen him on a scorecard recently
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,308
    Actually, given Tongue's rise via the Lions, definitely Carson seems next in line. And he's had a lot of bowling this season. A LOT of bowling at Labuschagne in one innings in particular, haha 
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,734
    edited June 2023
    Leuth said:
    Fucking Surrey, not developing Virdi. More talent there than in the rest of 'em combined. Jack Carson is a potential bolter. Bess would be kicking the TV territory 
    It's not just Surrey though is it? It is the ECB's fault. When almost half the CC games are played in April/May how and why should counties give spinners a chance?  
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,308
    Addick Addict said:
    Leuth said:
    Fucking Surrey, not developing Virdi. More talent there than in the rest of 'em combined. Jack Carson is a potential bolter. Bess would be kicking the TV territory 
    It's not just Surrey though is it? It is the ECB's fault. When almost half the CC games are played in April/May how and why should counties give spinners a chance?  
    Even in the late season games last year, Virdi wasn't getting a go 
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,734
    Leuth said:
    Addick Addict said:
    Leuth said:
    Fucking Surrey, not developing Virdi. More talent there than in the rest of 'em combined. Jack Carson is a potential bolter. Bess would be kicking the TV territory 
    It's not just Surrey though is it? It is the ECB's fault. When almost half the CC games are played in April/May how and why should counties give spinners a chance?  
    Even in the late season games last year, Virdi wasn't getting a go 
    But, again, "late season games". What is wrong with spinners learning their craft in the height of the summer on hard, bouncy wickets. Why limit them to four or five games a season? You must recognise that it is all about rhythm.

    How many English spinners have got 10 wickets or more in Division 1 of the CC from those 6 games compared to the number of English seamers who have done so? I'll save you the trouble of looking - Leach is the only spinner but there are 25 seamers who have done so. A pool of one spinner to pick from. 
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    I don’t think I’d pick another spinner. Livingstone could be an option at 8. I think they’ll ask Moeen to return. 
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  • MarcusH26
    MarcusH26 Posts: 8,017
    Leuth said:
    Actually, given Tongue's rise via the Lions, definitely Carson seems next in line. And he's had a lot of bowling this season. A LOT of bowling at Labuschagne in one innings in particular, haha 

    Carson is a really interesting prospect - barely played last season due to some kind of off the field issues with Ian Sailsbury that led to Sailsbury leaving the club - came back last few games and looked impressive, spent the winter as you say with the Lions so I think he could be an option.

    Big big big gamble though. 
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Seriously got to be going with an all pace attack? 
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,308
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Seriously got to be going with an all pace attack? 
    For at least two or three Tests yes. 

    I know I've made plenty of suggestions but Rehan Ahmed is as likely as any to get picked. I think they back him to burgle key wickets and cause damage with the bat 
  • Pelling1993
    Pelling1993 Posts: 6,670
    Moeen to the rescue. Would be amazing coming in at 8
  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 16,903
    Leuth said:
    Addick Addict said:
    Leuth said:
    Fucking Surrey, not developing Virdi. More talent there than in the rest of 'em combined. Jack Carson is a potential bolter. Bess would be kicking the TV territory 
    It's not just Surrey though is it? It is the ECB's fault. When almost half the CC games are played in April/May how and why should counties give spinners a chance?  
    Even in the late season games last year, Virdi wasn't getting a go 
    Moriarty has jumped ahead of him in the last fee years. Virdi has rather been left out in the cold by surrey. Reports a couple years ago of fitness and attitude issues seemed to be behind him but them some kind of crisis of confidence and drastic loss of form for 2 years left him struggling to look threatening in the 2s. This year he has apparently been excellent in the 2s and bowling back like himself. 

    Personally I still rate Moriarty above him. Fact is there is no world where both of them play red ball cricket for Surrey even semi regularly. So one of them has to move on. Surrey will want to keep Moriarty as he is an all formats bowler and has been favoured with the red ball.

    Will virdi who played his first ever professional white ball games last season before being dropped for a rookie in Majid be worth a contract at another county if he only plays red ball? Not sure.
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,734
    edited June 2023
    Reckon they’ll bring in Lawrence to bat at 8 and he’ll share spin responsibilities with Root… one extra batter in case bazball goes sideways…
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Leuth said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Seriously got to be going with an all pace attack? 
    For at least two or three Tests yes. 

    I know I've made plenty of suggestions but Rehan Ahmed is as likely as any to get picked. I think they back him to burgle key wickets and cause damage with the bat 
    I would pick Ahmed if Stokes could bowl.
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,734
    cafcfan1990 said:
    I don’t think I’d pick another spinner. Livingstone could be an option at 8. I think they’ll ask Moeen to return. 
    As my son has pointed out (because he was there) we played in Adelaide without a front line spinner and ended up with Ollie Robinson bowling off spin!
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,734
    Full list of English spinners who have taken 35 or more wickets over the course for the last four and a half seasons:

    image
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,734
    Are there any South Africans we can parachute in?
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  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,599
    Addick Addict said:
    Full list of English spinners who have taken 35 or more wickets over the course for the last four and a half seasons:

    image
    No clue about spinners but looking at those stats Parkinson seems the best choice. More wickets and average and economy better than almost all the rest. 
  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 26,818
    Why no mention of @PaddyP17 to step in for a test or two? 

  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    edited June 2023
    Archer can bowl off spin, and leg spin, wonder if his elbow would allow it.
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,734
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Archer can bowl off spin, and leg spin, wonder if his elbow would allow it.
    By all accounts it isn't just his elbow that is the issue (and of course he has to be able to throw too). It's to do with the fear that England can't get him fit enough for the rigours of Test cricket without another part of his body breaking down - he sustained a stress fracture of the lower back last summer. Hence the thought that, at the very least for the foreseeable future, he won't play the longer form of the game. If ever again. There is still an outside chance that he might make the WC in October but I wouldn't put money on it.   
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,308
    golfaddick said:
    Addick Addict said:
    Full list of English spinners who have taken 35 or more wickets over the course for the last four and a half seasons:

    image
    No clue about spinners but looking at those stats Parkinson seems the best choice. More wickets and average and economy better than almost all the rest. 
    They've rather brutally removed him from their thoughts. If his stock ball was...3mph quicker? they'd have kept him around. He needs serious numbers in the CC to get back in 
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Addick Addict said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Archer can bowl off spin, and leg spin, wonder if his elbow would allow it.
    By all accounts it isn't just his elbow that is the issue (and of course he has to be able to throw too). It's to do with the fear that England can't get him fit enough for the rigours of Test cricket without another part of his body breaking down - he sustained a stress fracture of the lower back last summer. Hence the thought that, at the very least for the foreseeable future, he won't play the longer form of the game. If ever again. There is still an outside chance that he might make the WC in October but I wouldn't put money on it.   
    I wasn't being serious.

    But I did think England would risk him even if they could only get a couple of tests out of him and it meant him missing the world cup.  Obviously that ship has long sailed.

    I would now be surprised if he ever plays anything other than 20 overs again.
  • North Lower Neil
    North Lower Neil Posts: 22,927
    I see Hazelwood has been ruled out of the WTC game so not just us with injury concerns.
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,734
    Of course there is one thing that makes the concept of going in with four quicks and Root as the spinner highly questionable - how many Tests could we do that for? The more Tests we do the more the likes of Robinson, Anderson and Broad are certain to have to play as we simply do not have that many viable alternatives. We are not talking about using untested rookies or those like Stone who are coming back from injury and haven't played a game - we are talking about bowlers who are fit and likely to take Ashes wickets. In the right conditions that is the aforementioned three plus Woakes and Wood which would mean all five of them missing just one Test each. Again, assuming that they remain fit enough to do that. 

    The obvious thing to do would be to call Moeen Ali. Trouble is that his record against Australia is, well, somewhat average - 20 wickets at 64.65. Rehan Ahmed will buy a few wickets but it could turn out to be the ruin of him. So I am now edging towards Liam Dawson who at least has a bit of CC form this season. 

    In the space of a week we've gone from virtually knowing our bowling attack for the first Test to being slightly clueless - not helped, of course, by the lack of certainty regarding Stokes' ability to bowl.  
  • North Lower Neil
    North Lower Neil Posts: 22,927
    edited June 2023
    Addick Addict said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Archer can bowl off spin, and leg spin, wonder if his elbow would allow it.
    By all accounts it isn't just his elbow that is the issue (and of course he has to be able to throw too). It's to do with the fear that England can't get him fit enough for the rigours of Test cricket without another part of his body breaking down - he sustained a stress fracture of the lower back last summer. Hence the thought that, at the very least for the foreseeable future, he won't play the longer form of the game. If ever again. There is still an outside chance that he might make the WC in October but I wouldn't put money on it.   
    Rumour is he got hit about in the nets by a few of the England players, which added to the concern he's just too slow to trouble quality batsmen.

    Isn't he currently out of the Lancs side too?

    We're just not producing top quality spinners anymore, Swann was one outlier in 30+ years.
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Addick Addict said:
    Of course there is one thing that makes the concept of going in with four quicks and Root as the spinner highly questionable - how many Tests could we do that for? The more Tests we do the more the likes of Robinson, Anderson and Broad are certain to have to play as we simply do not have that many viable alternatives. We are not talking about using untested rookies or those like Stone who are coming back from injury and haven't played a game - we are talking about bowlers who are fit and likely to take Ashes wickets. In the right conditions that is the aforementioned three plus Woakes and Wood which would mean all five of them missing just one Test each. Again, assuming that they remain fit enough to do that. 

    The obvious thing to do would be to call Moeen Ali. Trouble is that his record against Australia is, well, somewhat average - 20 wickets at 64.65. Rehan Ahmed will buy a few wickets but it could turn out to be the ruin of him. So I am now edging towards Liam Dawson who at least has a bit of CC form this season. 

    In the space of a week we've gone from virtually knowing our bowling attack for the first Test to being slightly clueless - not helped, of course, by the lack of certainty regarding Stokes' ability to bowl.  
    I think you can flip the open sentence round as well.  If England go into the first test with 3 of Anderson, Robinson, Broad and Wood, as most people expected, and spinner x.

    What do you do if spinner x gets hit out of the attack?

    I would back them to take the 20 wickets it's filling in overs.  I would also suggest England's 5th, 6th, 7th etc etc seamer is more likely to take wickets than the 2nd 3rd or 4th choice spinner.  In England.

    Then you add in that Root is the only viable batsman that can bowl option, if he was a medium pace swinger I would be more inclined to pick a spinner.

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