England Cricket 2023

Billy_Mix

Gary Poole said:

Billy_Mix said:

Perfectly clear that numb nuts Joe Root (by some distance the thickest captain England has ever had) has learned (or remembered) precisely nothing at all in his years as a professional athlete.  I'm not accusing him of not caring, ask him that, wait long enough for him to muster an answer and I'm sure he'll say the right things.
BUT
Pope's just got out so losing another wicket is the last thing needed - so numb nuts ignores the field changes and sets off for a suicidal run, sawing off Brook before he faces a ball
If Joe wasn't so grievously dense one might suspect him of undermining his vastly superior young colleague.

Not content with demonstrating such stultifying stupidity he tosses away his own wicket just an over after Stokes got out.  One blunder might be forgivable, two equally moronic faux-pas defy polite description.

All the bleating about a wide for height by the time Jimmy came in misses the point.  Any of the so called batsmen pay 1% more attention to Wagner's military medium long hops and the match and series are secured without breaking sweat.
Baz and Stokesy can poke all this "entertain at all costs" bullshit, they're professional competitors winning is the only metric, grasping defeat from the yawing jaws of facile victory is wilful dereliction of duty
Now where's my 'unpopular opinion tin hat'..?

Wow, that is quite some take down of a player who scored over 200 in the match and has averaged over 50 in a long test career. Would you prefer his place was taken by someone with less natural batting ability but was never prone to an error of judgement ?

I don't lay all the blame at the halfwit's feet.  One of his blunders might have been an "error of judgement" - twice etc.. etc..  The match was needlessly lost.  

MrOneLung

Gary Poole said:

Billy_Mix said:

Perfectly clear that numb nuts Joe Root (by some distance the thickest captain England has ever had) has learned (or remembered) precisely nothing at all in his years as a professional athlete.  I'm not accusing him of not caring, ask him that, wait long enough for him to muster an answer and I'm sure he'll say the right things.
BUT
Pope's just got out so losing another wicket is the last thing needed - so numb nuts ignores the field changes and sets off for a suicidal run, sawing off Brook before he faces a ball
If Joe wasn't so grievously dense one might suspect him of undermining his vastly superior young colleague.

Not content with demonstrating such stultifying stupidity he tosses away his own wicket just an over after Stokes got out.  One blunder might be forgivable, two equally moronic faux-pas defy polite description.

All the bleating about a wide for height by the time Jimmy came in misses the point.  Any of the so called batsmen pay 1% more attention to Wagner's military medium long hops and the match and series are secured without breaking sweat.
Baz and Stokesy can poke all this "entertain at all costs" bullshit, they're professional competitors winning is the only metric, grasping defeat from the yawing jaws of facile victory is wilful dereliction of duty
Now where's my 'unpopular opinion tin hat'..?

Wow, that is quite some take down of a player who scored over 200 in the match and has averaged over 50 in a long test career. Would you prefer his place was taken by someone with less natural batting ability but was never prone to an error of judgement ?

Stig thundercock would probably do better than Root for England

Pelling1993

I do completely agree that we played Wagner incredibly poorly. He didn't bowl even vaguely well. I think Foakes was arguably the most stupid after marshalling the tail so well. Don't enjoy the back-patting England are doing in defeat either.

Leuth

Pelling1993 said:

I do completely agree that we played Wagner incredibly poorly. He didn't bowl even vaguely well. I think Foakes was arguably the most stupid after marshalling the tail so well. Don't enjoy the back-patting England are doing in defeat either.

Yes.

Doesn't mean Mr Mix should be encouraged at all, mind

killerandflash

Cafc43v3r said:

Pelling1993 said:

Never got the hatred for Bilateral Series. After all the Ashes is/was just a bilateral series at its core

I think the Ashes has actually been watered down a bit by all the extra white ball bilateral series that now exist.  

It wasn’t really that long ago that we only ever played Australia every other year and you had to wait 4 years to see them here again.

Agreed, the current fixture list with separate red and white ball tours is making opponents a bit too familiar, and reducing the novelty of seeing many teams. We had the Ashes in
2015
2017/18
2019
2021/22 
Whereas the white ball series which used to be attached to the Ashes are now separate
2015
2017/18
2018
2020
2022
Meaning that since 2017/18, we've played Australia every year, not even including World Cups.

Similarly, much as I enjoy our games vs NZ, we have played them an awful lot recently for one reason or another
2 Tests at the start of 2018
2 Tests at the end of 2019
2 Tests in summer 2021
3 Tests in summer 2022
2 Tests at the start of 2023

Addick Addict

Pelling1993 said:

Never got the hatred for Bilateral Series. After all the Ashes is/was just a bilateral series at its core

I think "hatred" is, perhaps, quite a strong word. For me this Series does have some interest but it loses its significance because we no longer show such a series the respect it used to deserve by virtue of the fact that so many players are unavailable. Going back in time, these matches would be tagged onto either end of a Test series and we would, generally speaking, have something resembling our best side out but now such series are slotted in as and when the calendar allows.

This leads to any number of players being unavailable either because they are in the Test side or, as in the case of three England players for this tour, they opt to play franchise cricket instead of being part of the England squad. If the opposition were to do that too then that series, for me, would have even less interest. Of course, this did happen when we had the bizarre situation last summer when we sent a squad to play the Netherlands. They had five or six of their best players not playing because the Counties to which they were contracted wouldn't release them and they ended up putting out a side that would, frankly, struggle to beat some club sides. In the three games we amassed 995-10 at 8.58 an over!!! That was as meaningless as it gets. 

Playing Bangladesh on their home soil is a decent test but, in all probability, at least four, if not five, of our WC starting line up are missing. We do have to make the most of this opportunity because, frankly, these players will have next to zero prep for the WC. None will play in our domestic competition because they will be involved in The Hundred and the only games we have between now and the WC are against NZ (4) and Ireland (3) - both series on home soil. As we witnessed today, 50 over cricket is a different animal to T20 and it is the one discipline that is shown the least attention by us - and that is reflected by the fact that we've won just 4 of our last 12 games. We might have won the WC in 2019 but our prep allowed us to do that. Will we be similarly prepared for this one? 

Addick Addict

Leuth said:

I see India's extremely good, non-cynical and endlessly watchable approach to pitch preparation has backfired then 

Just watched the highlights. The ones that spat and bounced and the ones that shot were entertaining enough. But not quite as hilarious as Jadeja celebrating a wicket only for the claxon to call it a "no ball". That's the third time in this series alone that he's lost one like that. Serves him right too. 

Leuth

Actually turning into a decent game, albeit not really one you want to see as standard. Even speaking as a spinner 

Addick Addict

Unbelievable catch by Smith at leg slip, weight going the wrong way but still managed to take it one handed diving to get rid of the danger man Pujara and to give Lyon his 6th wicket

155-8 and a lead of just 67

Leuth

Hmm, as soon as I said that... 

Addick Addict

LOL Umesh survives an LBW first ball and then launches the ball straight down the throat of 6' 7'' Green at full stretch on the long on boundary 

Addick Addict

163 all out and a lead of just 76

Lyon 8-64

I can't help thinking that the advent of these two other spinners who have both performed with credit has had a positive affect on Lyon

Leuth

I feel I may have written his obituary a tad hastily, oops

Addick Addict

In the meantime and while I am engaging with the good folk of Charlton Life, Seb (in Australia) is messaging me about how he's been talking about cricket in general today on a Whatsapp call with Andrew Strauss and Paul Farbrace. As I'm sure many on here would expect of me, I've told Seb, in no uncertain terms, that he's far better off listening to me when it comes to cricket. You don't, after all, get to play cricket at club 3rd team level for decades without learning all there is to know about the game!

Addick Addict

Leuth said:

I feel I may have written his obituary a tad hastily, oops

I genuinely believe that he did need this kick up the backside of having those other two spinners in the side. In the 1st Test he returned figures of 1-126 and Murphy took 7-124. Kuhnemann took 5-16 in the first innings here too. He's a competitor and he hasn't had anyone seriously competing for his place for a good while. 

killerandflash

Poor Jason Roy get a century, and not a single comment on here 

Leuth

It's only Bangladesh

blackpool72

killerandflash said:

Poor Jason Roy get a century, and not a single comment on here 

Anti Surrey bias.

First Roy with a century 

Now Curren ripping through the top order. 

Come on the Rey  😁

North Lower Neil

Sam Curran has started OK too....

killerandflash

Curran has turned into a brilliant white ball cricketer with both bat and ball. Worth another go in the Test team?

blackpool72

killerandflash said:

Curran has turned into a brilliant white ball cricketer with both bat and ball. Worth another go in the Test team?

I think if Stokes knee injury kept him out of the test side then Curren could step in.
Not sure how else he would be picked. 

Chizz

One of the things I like most about you @blackpool72 is your unshakeable faith in Sam Curran.  There's no doubt he's a very, very good player and his contribution to the World Cup T20 tournament was exceptional.  I know it's at least in part because he plays for the team you follow.  But it's really good to see someone promoting and extolling the virtues of a player you really admire.  

In my view, he's not the best all-rounder in the world - especially at Test level - and he never will be.  But, when the conditions are right he can be devastatingly effective, either with the bat or ball.  So, for that reason, I always like to see you bigging him up.  (In short, I would like him to be as good as you seem to believe he already is).  

In my view, he'd be a really effective number seven in the batting order or second-change seamer.  The problem is, matches tend not to be won by number seven batters or by second-change bowlers: if you're relying on a batter coming in five wickets down to win a game, or when the first three seamers have failed, then you're patching up a badly-constructed line-up.  I like him, I always, always want him to be successful, I admire him when he's on form (because he looks like a world beater), but I wouldn't pick him.  I do, however, really enjoy your promotion and encouragement of him.  

But, for the life of me, I can't work out why you never spell his name right! 

  

blackpool72

Chizz said:

One of the things I like most about you @blackpool72 is your unshakeable faith in Sam Curran.  There's no doubt he's a very, very good player and his contribution to the World Cup T20 tournament was exceptional.  I know it's at least in part because he plays for the team you follow.  But it's really good to see someone promoting and extolling the virtues of a player you really admire.  

In my view, he's not the best all-rounder in the world - especially at Test level - and he never will be.  But, when the conditions are right he can be devastatingly effective, either with the bat or ball.  So, for that reason, I always like to see you bigging him up.  (In short, I would like him to be as good as you seem to believe he already is).  

In my view, he'd be a really effective number seven in the batting order or second-change seamer.  The problem is, matches tend not to be won by number seven batters or by second-change bowlers: if you're relying on a batter coming in five wickets down to win a game, or when the first three seamers have failed, then you're patching up a badly-constructed line-up.  I like him, I always, always want him to be successful, I admire him when he's on form (because he looks like a world beater), but I wouldn't pick him.  I do, however, really enjoy your promotion and encouragement of him.  

But, for the life of me, I can't work out why you never spell his name right! 

  

Speling nevor was my stroong point. 

As for Sam Curran  😁

He would be an automatic choice for  me in both forms of white ball cricket. 
But as I said in my earlier post I can't see him making the present Test side unless there is an injury to Skokes. 
Even then someone like Woakes would probably get in before him especially in England. 

Pelling1993

blackpool72 said:

killerandflash said:

Curran has turned into a brilliant white ball cricketer with both bat and ball. Worth another go in the Test team?

I think if Stokes knee injury kept him out of the test side then Curren could step in.
Not sure how else he would be picked. 

I think he's very ineffective with the red ball outside of England. His batting isn't anywhere near good enough for me either

Addick Addict

I suppose the reason that I would include Curran as a replacement for Stokes, when he retires, is because we do need an all rounder in the side and I'm not sure who else is out there to fulfil that role? We can't go into important Test matches, as we did in the last one, with just four bowlers - this is even more true if we are going to include the likes of Archer or Wood as, to get the best out of them, they have to be utilised in shorter and fewer bursts.

Invariably, Curran has previously been that third seamer when he's played. We wouldn't be asking him to do that. We need him to bowl a dozen or so overs a day at specific times. He is a clever bowler with a skillset acquired through his white ball exploits and he's not someone that the opposition want to take liberties with. In fact, that is exactly the type of approach that we would want them to take against him especially as he will offer, as a left armer, a different proposition to those that have already bowled. Equally, there will be the odd occasion when the ball is hooping where we would get him on sooner rather than later. 

Curran's red ball batting is more of an issue and he needs to become more consistent but we do have to remember he is still only 24. I'm not sure he even played a CC game in 2021 but last season he did score 454 runs at an average of 75.66 last season so the raw ability is there. He has to have more exposure to that if he wants to improve and the clashes with his various white ball commitments will be the issue in that respect.

As I say, if it isn't Curran then who is it? Or should we really go into the Ashes with just four bowlers should Stokes become unavailable through injury? 

killerandflash

Curran has the priceless ability, like Stokes, to make things happen. 

Wasn't there talk at Surrey a couple of years ago, of Curran being a top order batsman, so the potential is there. I guess it all depends on whether he wants to be a top order Test batsman playing long innings, or whether he'd rather concentrate on white ball cricket.

Covered End

I was out earlier, so just finished watching. 
Curran is like Stokes and even more so Botham. He has an uncanny knack of bowling balls some good, some average & some even bad, but he still picks up wickets regardless. He's improved so much in the last year. Another good win btw. 

Addick Addict

He's scary enough now. Lord knows how far he will hit it following his baseball training. 

Callumcafc

England the first team to win an ODI series in Bangladesh since England in 2016.

North Lower Neil

Addick Addict said:

He's scary enough now. Lord knows how far he will hit it following his baseball training. 

Bazball to baseball.