4231 with an immobile centre forward .. sounds very Karl Robinson and this team doesn’t have Ricky Holmes
I didn't suggest we should, merely that I have a feeling we might.
I thought Garner was all about fluidity - 4231 is about as rigid as it gets, hence hardly any good teams have ever used it .
It's used less regularly now due to the decline of the classic 10 in modern football but 4231 was all the rage in the 2000s and it's still in use now regularly. Guardiola used it constantly in the last couple of seasons, Hansi Flick often uses it at Bayern. To be honest, what you've said about 4231 isn't really accurate as it's sufficiiently flexible that you can often argue that a 4231 is a 433 depending on how the 10 is asked to play the game and your perception. There's also so much more work being done on shape out of possession as well that a 4231 is rarely that without the ball, an indicator of the fact it's quite fluid. You can play a 4231 with a narrow winger who almost plays as a second striker and an advanced full back, you can play a very advanced 10 who runs beyond the striker etc. There's too much focus on what exactly a formation is anyway to be honest, they're just a way of writing down roughly where a player is for a match write up, there's not much value in quibbling over what's a 433 and what's a 4231.
Fraser in for CBT for me, but that team looks mustard to me... really looking forward to this season
Fraser for Kirk and a more mobile striker in for stockley and it is looking half decent I think although I’ve hardly seen any of our new signings play and people on here who’s views im basing it on have tended to overrate our incomings in the past - maybe switch Fraser and paynes positions - Fraser looks like hd would operate best in the middle
Part of the reason Ipswich didn’t get the best out of Fraser was because at times they played him on the left wing, as you say he’s more suited to the middle.
yep - get the ball into frazer as much as possible, let him use his touch and guile to draw players in and then spray the ball around - minimize the running without the ball that he has to do
4231 with an immobile centre forward .. sounds very Karl Robinson and this team doesn’t have Ricky Holmes
I didn't suggest we should, merely that I have a feeling we might.
I thought Garner was all about fluidity - 4231 is about as rigid as it gets, hence hardly any good teams have ever used it .
Is this a whoosh... Ok I'm just gonna say it anyway. Loads of great teams play this formation and its variations. Look who won the Champions League this year.
They play 433, as do Liverpool and Man City
They both play 4231, 433, 4123, 3421, 451, depending on what transition they're in. As has been said many times, it's variations on the same formation. Arguing the difference between 433 and 4231 is nuanced and interesting for sure, but I can't agree that one is rigid and one is fluid, they're practically yards from each other and interchange constantly.
4231 with an immobile centre forward .. sounds very Karl Robinson and this team doesn’t have Ricky Holmes
I didn't suggest we should, merely that I have a feeling we might.
I thought Garner was all about fluidity - 4231 is about as rigid as it gets, hence hardly any good teams have ever used it .
Is this a whoosh... Ok I'm just gonna say it anyway. Loads of great teams play this formation and its variations. Look who won the Champions League this year.
They play 433, as do Liverpool and Man City
They both play 4231, 433, 4123, 3421, 451, depending on what transition they're in. As has been said many times, it's variations on the same formation. Arguing the difference between 433 and 4231 is nuanced and interesting for sure, but I can't agree that one is rigid and one is fluid, they're practically yards from each other and interchange constantly.
Yeah but all these players under 40 only understand 442 none of these fancy new formations..........
I wonder if JFC and Aneke, two of our oldest players, have EVER played for a professional team that regularly play 442?
I don’t think so… he was good last year but he still gets occasional rushes of blood that leave him charging into a challenge and then out of position. He’s not ready for the second tier yet IMO.
We don’t have another player like him. Forster-Caskey far more likely to leave to make room…
4231 with an immobile centre forward .. sounds very Karl Robinson and this team doesn’t have Ricky Holmes
I didn't suggest we should, merely that I have a feeling we might.
I thought Garner was all about fluidity - 4231 is about as rigid as it gets, hence hardly any good teams have ever used it .
Is this a whoosh... Ok I'm just gonna say it anyway. Loads of great teams play this formation and its variations. Look who won the Champions League this year.
They play 433, as do Liverpool and Man City
When Liverpool are on top against most opposition they go with 2-5-3 as Trent and Robertson end up further forward. This just manifests as the Weaker teams retreat. Van Dijk and his fellow CB cover everywhere as Trent AA is given licence to show his midfield skills. As for Man city when a false 9 is played about Six players take turns in getting in the box. With Haaland coming in they got rid of twinkle toes to Chelsea.
This probably won't be the last time I say it but most formations are very fluid now and the Sean Dyche formation of 4-4-2 in possession and 4-4-1-1 out of possession which saw them work their way up from League 1 to the Premier may be passe now but most fashions are cylinical and with the 16 player game now the evolution of formations continue. Of course if both team play the same way then it can still negate each other as it always has.
Back to McGrandles I assume he is doing his pre season now and will be about 3 weeks off from playing ?
1) To rhyme with candles 2) As 3 syllables - Mc Grand (English pronunciation) Lez 3) As 3 syllables - Mc Grand (French pronunciation) Lez 4) As 3 syllables - Mc Grand (French) Lay 5) Something else
“Conor McGrandles, we’re just waiting on a cast for him. Hoping that will be quicker than expected, in terms of his return to play. I would like to think he’d be back in the next fortnight, maybe even sooner."
1) To rhyme with candles 2) As 3 syllables - Mc Grand (English pronunciation) Lez 3) As 3 syllables - Mc Grand (French pronunciation) Lez 4) As 3 syllables - Mc Grand (French) Lay 5) Something else
“Conor McGrandles, we’re just waiting on a cast for him. Hoping that will be quicker than expected, in terms of his return to play. I would like to think he’d be back in the next fortnight, maybe even sooner."
Blaming our supporters trust for the delay is harsh
In terms of the quality he has (not) shown so far we won’t miss him but it’s another body down in an already meagre squad. What the f… is it about this club and injuries?
I have a bit of a soft spot for McGangles. He's been comedically unlucky with injuries since he signed and has been hopelessly poor when given the opportunity so would love him to turn it round.
I have a bit of a soft spot for McGangles. He's been comedically unlucky with injuries since he signed and has been hopelessly poor when given the opportunity so would love him to turn it round.
That's exactly what will happen - McGrandles and JFC are both more Dobson style players as far as I can tell so unless something happens to GD I can't imagine JFC will get much gametime
Albie is ahead of McGrandles, but McGrandles has regularly been on the bench, so that's a space up for grabs. If JFC is still "unaffordable" then presumably Henry will be next in line.
Bit of a strange one with McGrandles, I saw plenty of him at Lincoln and he looked a very good player and so I was very happy when we signed him. For whatever reason it's not worked out here yet but I wouldn't completely write him off.
That's exactly what will happen - McGrandles and JFC are both more Dobson style players as far as I can tell so unless something happens to GD I can't imagine JFC will get much gametime
Not exactly. JFC is more of a playmaker than Dobson. But he also likes to sit deep so I don't think Dobson and JFC would fit in a 3 man midfield. In 442 or a diamond , JFC would play in advance of Dobson, but we don't see that very often with Garner.
Comments
I wonder if JFC and Aneke, two of our oldest players, have EVER played for a professional team that regularly play 442?
We don’t have another player like him. Forster-Caskey far more likely to leave to make room…
When Liverpool are on top against most opposition they go with 2-5-3 as Trent and Robertson end up further forward. This just manifests as the Weaker teams retreat.
Van Dijk and his fellow CB cover everywhere as Trent AA is given licence to show his midfield skills.
As for Man city when a false 9 is played about Six players take turns in getting in the box. With Haaland coming in they got rid of twinkle toes to Chelsea.
This probably won't be the last time I say it but most formations are very fluid now and the Sean Dyche formation of 4-4-2 in possession and 4-4-1-1 out of possession which saw them work their way up from League 1 to the Premier may be passe now but most fashions are cylinical and with the 16 player game now the evolution of formations continue. Of course if both team play the same way then it can still negate each other as it always has.
Back to McGrandles I assume he is doing his pre season now and will be about 3 weeks off from playing ?
1) To rhyme with candles
2) As 3 syllables - Mc Grand (English pronunciation) Lez
3) As 3 syllables - Mc Grand (French pronunciation) Lez
4) As 3 syllables - Mc Grand (French) Lay
5) Something else
“Conor McGrandles, we’re just waiting on a cast for him. Hoping that will be quicker than expected, in terms of his return to play. I would like to think he’d be back in the next fortnight, maybe even sooner."
”Serviceable. Injured a lot towards the end of the season.... An unspectacular midfielder.”
Barely serviceable for us so far, but certainly both injured a lot and unspectacular.
Maybe we will find out tonight.