Almost all the players we have had in the last 2 years, to me come under the definition of;
"You won't get promoted if x is your y, but x being your y doesn't mean you can't get promoted".
I think if you look at Bowyer's squad, and to a lesser extent Powell's, Curbs play off team as well, you probably had 10ish players like that. If not more.
They all had "not good enough for a promotion team" players as well.
What we really lack is players that "if you have him in the side you have a chance". We need 5 of them. Until we get them we are going no where.
I said at the end of the 20/21 season we need to replace out 5 worst with 5 "best" players. I don't think we have 5 "worst" any more, but I don't think we have 5 "best" either.
I think that's spot on. I think it's the general excessively online culture the world has developed that brings with it a potential negative in anything. We're all probably thinking about it too much and having too much of an opportunity to talk about it. Every time we make a signing there's a negative post with a criticism - often justifiable - and that sparks a debate. It's inevitable now. I think about the positivity there was with the Powell squad taking shape and how it would probably be lookd at now with the increase in data knowledge and the ability to go on another team's forum and find the posters who never liked that player and absorb their negative opinion. Look at that Powell squad
Hamer - unwanted by a second division club, 28 L1 appearances across two loan clubs. Morrison - run out of town by Sheff Weds. Taylor - Jut one L1 season, why hasn't he played higher? Hughes - unwanted by a L1 club, old. Stephens - coming off a big injury, perfect for us etc. Hollands - free players? Where's all the Jenkinson money, pay a fee Slater. Green - L1 relegation player. Pritchard - non-league player, Pardew all over again. Yann - well to be fair the Yann signing got a fair bit of flak at the time. Of all our signings that season I'd say Wiggins was the only one where you couldn't possibly find a fault and it was very exciting. It felt like there was less of that at the time because I think we were all just less terminally online, and that allowed us to wait to see what the players had to offer rather than panicking about where they came from. A lot of those signings were game-changers for us though. We'll have to see if the new signings are. If O'Connell shores up our defence, Sessegnon offers defensive strength and progressive play, Payne creates and scores, Fraser rediscovers his form in a new system and CBT benefits from playing higher up then we might be looking very good. I think we're still a goal-scoring gem on the wing away from being a real promotion threat but we've got players in the squad who could be more than the sum of their parts if the system works. One of the problems we've had the past few years is Bowyer's style was all about the mentality of his players, and then Adkins and Jackson were more hand-wavy let's try and do some goals in their style. A good system well drilled and implemented can bring more out of the players you have than having 11 superstars on the pitch, especially at a lower level.
No comparison at all
That summer Powell went and brought players in who had done the business in L1 the season before (many from clubs who had finished higher than us) or even who had been in the Championship. And we paid fees for 3 players (Green, Stephens and Wiggins) all of which had done the business in L1.
This season we've brought in McGrandles (a modern equivalent to Hollands as a decent L1 midfielder available on a free), a decent Fulham loanee and 4 players who looked good last season in L2.
Yes there's some excessive negativity around. But surely blind optimism is just as questionable, when not supported by evidence both in terms of who we've signed, but also who our opposition have in their sides.
Not the point I was making at all though. What I was saying is that you will always have criticisms of players when they sign, particularly now, and there would have been more criticism and pressure loaded onto our 11/12 signings if we were making those equivalent signings today. If we're going into what you said though, I wouldn't say Dale Stephens had done the business in L1, he'd played two seasons there, part of one where he took in a L2 loan. O'Connell on the other hand often gets lumped in with these L2 player lists but has four seasons of L1 experience, he just stayed with his club in L2 last season ostensibly because of his relationship with the manager. Jack Payne has 6 seasons' L1 experience as well as one Championship season where he played 23 times for a team that won promotion to the Premier League, and one recent season in L2 after he went down in the Swindon sinking ship that couldn't have been saved by Leo Messi let alone Scott Twine. Joe Wollacott has 10 caps for Ghana and is about the age Ben Hamer was when he signed for us, about the age a keeper really starts to assert himself as a potential number one. These aren't just a bunch of L2 hopefuls, they're signings where we've capitalised on players who did well after going down a level lower than they probably should have whose contracts have expired. See, you can play the positive/negative game on any player but it's always reductive. There's not blind optimism, the negativity doesn't even have to be excessive, the point is that we don't need each player to be a world beater or need them to look like gods on paper, we need to construct a squad with some sprinklings of real quality that plays a way that brings the best out of everyone on the pitch. Players like Kish, Jon Fortune, Graeme Stuart and Hermann probably shouldn't have finished 7 points off the Champions league places but with a bit of quality from Di Canio, Jensen and [redacted] as well as graft from the rest in an organised system they were more than the sum of their parts. We can always find flaws in our incoming players, especially at this level, but we don't need to compare them to other teams and trawl through their histories, we need them to be suited to us in the system we're playing in order to move forward.
Hmm. I'd say Powell recruited with an eye on a squad capable of winning promotion to the Championship and staying there. Not sure the same could be said of this season's, notwithstanding we have one fit striker and a comedy back line yet again.
Sooner Innis is out of the first XI and Lavelle or Clare are in at centre half the better. The latter continues to impress me with his pace and reading of the game, and pace is a luxury we have nowhere else at centre half.
Obviously the striker requirement is key, think most agree with that.
However after Saturday I’m fairly concerned defensively. I know it’s only the first game, and you can read into stats too much, but the expected goals data said the game should have ended 3-1. And we did let them have an absurd amount of shots (albeit majority off target).
It’s a funny thing how stats are so heavily relied upon,and yet so often don’t correspond to the actual results. So yes I’d say most definitely stats are read into too much, they never allow for the human aspect of things, which is why we keep watching the stupid game and why we are never 100% correct all the time.
In this instance the human aspect (those that attended) did mention that we look likely to concede often. Meaning we could be on the end of a severe hiding at some point.
I was eluding to decisions by humans on the pitch, refereeing decisions, players, managers , coaches etc. any team can be on the end of a hiding/ thumping win on any day, that’s football.
Indeed, one off results are what make sport great, the idea that even the greatest can be beaten by the no hoper, that nothing is guaranteed.
Over the course of a season, things do even up though. The teams that regularly create plenty of good chances and don't let the opposition create many good chances will be near the top of the table.
Obviously the striker requirement is key, think most agree with that.
However after Saturday I’m fairly concerned defensively. I know it’s only the first game, and you can read into stats too much, but the expected goals data said the game should have ended 3-1. And we did let them have an absurd amount of shots (albeit majority off target).
It’s a funny thing how stats are so heavily relied upon,and yet so often don’t correspond to the actual results. So yes I’d say most definitely stats are read into too much, they never allow for the human aspect of things, which is why we keep watching the stupid game and why we are never 100% correct all the time.
In this instance the human aspect (those that attended) did mention that we look likely to concede often. Meaning we could be on the end of a severe hiding at some point.
I was eluding to decisions by humans on the pitch, refereeing decisions, players, managers , coaches etc. any team can be on the end of a hiding/ thumping win on any day, that’s football.
Indeed, one off results are what make sport great, the idea that even the greatest can be beaten by the no hoper, that nothing is guaranteed.
Over the course of a season, things do even up though. The teams that regularly create plenty of good chances and don't let the opposition create many good chances will be near the top of the table.
Agreed, hope you are correct, I see us making chances but worry our forwards aren’t giong to finish those chances regularly enough, defensively, well we need to stay switched on more let’s put it that way.😬
I'm pretty sure it's used a lot in elite football to analyse where the highest quality chances are being created from and where they are not. Not to mention the kinds of chances being conceded.
I'm pretty sure it's used a lot in elite football to analyse where the highest quality chances are being created from and where they are not.
Of course it is, there’s analysts looking at this stuff week in week out the closer to the top you go, the more information the better I say, the hesitancy around modern technology which is designed to help is odd.
To maintain squad balance and mount a serious promotion campaign we are in urgent need of someone with a very boring name.
Trevor Clarke meets the bill perfectly. He sounds like a carpet-fitter from Bromley. Trevor will add much needed stability to the likes of Diallang Jaiyesimi, Riki Saki, Claude Sessegonion and Victor McGrandles.
Our team sheet was to looking far too exotic for my liking.
Why? It’s an indication that on another day we could have got spanked, so perhaps we could use this let off to tighten up.
Why the desperate need to ignore all the modern information technology at our disposal now.
I'm not sure how confirming you should've scored more goals but didn't is useful in any way. You could tell that from just watching the game
It’s useful over a longer period for example it can show if good form is likely to continue due to ability or if it’ll come to an end eventually as it’s more down to luck.
Why? It’s an indication that on another day we could have got spanked, so perhaps we could use this let off to tighten up.
Why the desperate need to ignore all the modern information technology at our disposal now.
I'm not sure how confirming you should've scored more goals but didn't is useful in any way. You could tell that from just watching the game
More and more teams spend less time swinging in high crosses and shoot from range a lot less because they have been found to be low xG. It's why Man City spend most of their time getting to the byline and hitting those low crosses back across goal for a tap-in just like our first against Accrington because it's a much higher percentage play.
So I'd argue it's not true to say it's the most useless stat in football, it has really changed the game.
As a fan you might find it useless to know your team had more chances but still lost, I personally like the info. There's been a few times I've been surprised by the xG because I've been too caught up in the emotion of the match and thinking we are rubbish! Also gives you an indication of whether you have serious problems or you are actually playing well but just not finishing chances.
Why? It’s an indication that on another day we could have got spanked, so perhaps we could use this let off to tighten up.
Why the desperate need to ignore all the modern information technology at our disposal now.
I'm not sure how confirming you should've scored more goals but didn't is useful in any way. You could tell that from just watching the game
More and more teams spend less time swinging in high crosses and shoot from range a lot less because they have been found to be low xG. It's why Man City spend most of their time getting to the byline and hitting those low crosses back across goal for a tap-in just like our first against Accrington because it's a much higher percentage play.
So I'd argue it's not true to say it's the most useless stat in football, it has really changed the game.
As a fan you might find it useless to know your team had more chances but still lost, I personally like the info. There's been a few times I've been surprised by the xG because I've been too caught up in the emotion of the match and thinking we are rubbish! Also gives you an indication of whether you have serious problems or you are actually playing well but just not finishing chances.
You’ve put it a lot better than I have.
But to add, if a manager has to prepare for the next fixture what’s more helpful?
a)Watching precious matches. b)Watching previous matches and analysing performance stats.
Why? It’s an indication that on another day we could have got spanked, so perhaps we could use this let off to tighten up.
Why the desperate need to ignore all the modern information technology at our disposal now.
I'm not sure how confirming you should've scored more goals but didn't is useful in any way. You could tell that from just watching the game
More and more teams spend less time swinging in high crosses and shoot from range a lot less because they have been found to be low xG. It's why Man City spend most of their time getting to the byline and hitting those low crosses back across goal for a tap-in just like our first against Accrington because it's a much higher percentage play.
So I'd argue it's not true to say it's the most useless stat in football, it has really changed the game.
As a fan you might find it useless to know your team had more chances but still lost, I personally like the info. There's been a few times I've been surprised by the xG because I've been too caught up in the emotion of the match and thinking we are rubbish! Also gives you an indication of whether you have serious problems or you are actually playing well but just not finishing chances.
No matter how many chances you create, if you consistently don't convert them then you do have serious problems, so I do not find that statistic very comforting!
Why? It’s an indication that on another day we could have got spanked, so perhaps we could use this let off to tighten up.
Why the desperate need to ignore all the modern information technology at our disposal now.
I'm not sure how confirming you should've scored more goals but didn't is useful in any way. You could tell that from just watching the game
More and more teams spend less time swinging in high crosses and shoot from range a lot less because they have been found to be low xG. It's why Man City spend most of their time getting to the byline and hitting those low crosses back across goal for a tap-in just like our first against Accrington because it's a much higher percentage play.
So I'd argue it's not true to say it's the most useless stat in football, it has really changed the game.
As a fan you might find it useless to know your team had more chances but still lost, I personally like the info. There's been a few times I've been surprised by the xG because I've been too caught up in the emotion of the match and thinking we are rubbish! Also gives you an indication of whether you have serious problems or you are actually playing well but just not finishing chances.
No matter how many chances you create, if you consistently don't convert them then you do have serious problems, so I do not find that statistic very comforting!
You would expect that if you created enough high quality chances over enough games, good players would start to convert. If not, I guess it would at least highlight the problem and problem players. Though our main striker was, on ratio, perhaps in the top 1-2 strikers in the league for missed chances last year and yet still remains popular.
Comments
Sooner Innis is out of the first XI and Lavelle or Clare are in at centre half the better. The latter continues to impress me with his pace and reading of the game, and pace is a luxury we have nowhere else at centre half.
Over the course of a season, things do even up though. The teams that regularly create plenty of good chances and don't let the opposition create many good chances will be near the top of the table.
All others just provide endless debates that dont really matter about a game
Using Henrys mantra....WIOTOS
116 new posts any actual rumours or just the endless waffle about everything and nothing?
Gonna have to spend a lot more than £500k for a 20-goal bloke
Had to be done...😂😂
To maintain squad balance and mount a serious promotion campaign we are in urgent need of someone with a very boring name.
Trevor Clarke meets the bill perfectly. He sounds like a carpet-fitter from Bromley. Trevor will add much needed stability to the likes of Diallang Jaiyesimi, Riki Saki, Claude Sessegonion and Victor McGrandles.
Our team sheet was to looking far too exotic for my liking.
So have another go, why so desperate to ignore modern technology that’s designed to point out where you might go wrong in future fixtures?
So I'd argue it's not true to say it's the most useless stat in football, it has really changed the game.
As a fan you might find it useless to know your team had more chances but still lost, I personally like the info. There's been a few times I've been surprised by the xG because I've been too caught up in the emotion of the match and thinking we are rubbish! Also gives you an indication of whether you have serious problems or you are actually playing well but just not finishing chances.
But to add, if a manager has to prepare for the next fixture what’s more helpful?
a)Watching precious matches.
b)Watching previous matches and analysing performance stats.
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/charlton-winger-drawing-interest-from-three-clubs/