I think if West Ham would have fined him a month's wages and suspended him for 5 games. Most people will complain about the punishment being too lenient but then move on after a game or two.
Playing him literally the day after it all came out just lit the fuse.
Zouma will be fine and like Alonso, Ronaldo and many others before him will be just another player in a month or two.
I think if West Ham would have fined him a month's wages and suspended him for 5 games. Most people will complain about the punishment being too lenient but then move on after a game or two.
Playing him literally the day after it all came out just lit the fuse.
Zouma will be fine and like Alonso, Ronaldo and many others before him will be just another player in a month or two.
More like a week, when the next big football scandal comes along.
His Brother, who was filming and giggling during the incident will not play for Dagenham and Redbridge until the investigation is complete.
His brother didn't cost D&R £30 million though. As distasteful as it is, West Ham's apparent indifference is financially motivated.
Agreed. He’s played well this season and possibly exceeding the price paid for him, they will not wipe what I guess is around a 40 million intangible asset of their books lightly, although at what cost does it come for their brand? That’s where it ends, the cost of letting him go versus cost of damage he does to the club.
The other West Ham player makes a reasonable point just very badly.
Other players have committed serious offences and been allowed to play on after punishment.
But trying to compare one type of offence with another is always problematic. It is whataboutery and makes it seem that the speaker is trying to lessen the offence even though he said he didn't condone it.
I wasn't going to look at the video but my husband found it and showed it to me. I am horrified by what I saw, not only was the actual act despicable, but to actually have it videoed and for there to be a row of laughing emojis at the bottom of the video is unbelievable.
Zouma should not be playing for West Ham and must be made an example of. West Ham should have done what Man Utd have done with Mason Greenwood and stopped him training and playing. Violence towards animals is just as bad as violence towards people.
No, it is absolutely not.
I understand why you might state that violence towards animals is not as bad as violence towards people. There are many who might say it’s not the same thing, which is understandable given desired diet, but if Zouma went off on one at home and was filmed kicking his wife, children, dog and cat all in one session surely the viciousness of intent and action would be the same thing? You don’t agree with my perspective sure, but there are many people who would say the violence is the same, maybe even worse if it is towards an animal like it would be if it was violence towards a child. I would suggest that treating an animal the way Zouma has done is indicative of a susceptibility towards domestic violence too. I wonder how many degrees of separation there are between a man like Kurt Zouma and Mason Greenwood.
Correct - we don't agree.
That in no way diminishes my revulsion at what Zouma did, but I place human life above all other life forms - and diet has fuck all to do with it.
I am not suggesting you’re not as appalled as everybody else about what Zouma did. My post was about how different people might view the sanctity of life.
Sanctity of life. ~ Now you're talking. Was thinking this needed a mention in this thread. I wondered, as people winced at the poor cat's treatment (which, goes without saying ~ is appalling) if they would find it as appalling if it were an unborn child being hacked to pieces by an abortionist?
We can be commended as a society for not contributing our taxes in the funding of the kicking of cats. But we show our true barbarism in how we treat the most vulnerable human beings..
Always baffles me this one. A society that thinks nothing of slaughtering the most vulnerable human beings but asks for the head of a bloke who kicks a cat?!
A whiff of hypocrisy wending its way through this thread perhaps...
No, a huge stink of disgusting US style religious fundamentalism from you.
Your views and your attempts to insert them into every debate revolt me but are a useful reminder as to why I'm an humanist and just how desperate people like you are to drag us all back centuries, to deny women and minorities human rights and suppress hard won freedoms.
"US style religious fundamentalism"? I wouldn't mind if you simply accused others of being "religious fundamentalist" but accusing someone of being from the US!!
But seriously Henry ...
The "hard won freedoms" were won on The Cross. I hope one day you will appreciate that.
I have no interest in "inserting [faith] into every debate". If it is relevant to mention abortion (which isn't faith it's just basic common sense not to kill babies) then I will mention it.
And far from "dragging us back centuries" I am very keen on the very best life for women (we all have at least one of the following: mothers, sisters, aunts, daughters and wives) and minorities (we are all minorities in one context or another). I will for all the women in my life the very best life. Starting with their conception..
It was a few centuries ago that the French decided to have a revolution ~ destroying every aspect of faith in its borders and deriding and cancelling anyone who dared stand up against this (oh and killing! them)
Out of the two of us I would say it is you that wishes to return us to the late 18th Century, not me.
Utter shithouse of the highest order, complete coward and a bully. Football will do what it does though, it will forgive, he won't get sacked because a club with a lower sense of morality will sign him up.
Begs the question "What are the rules in this post-Christian 21st Century morality?"
It seems noone really knows.
I like to think noone on these pages would ever do things the likes of Mendy, Zouma, Greenwood et al do/done/did. And seem to laugh at too.
But these things don't START with torturing animals, beating up and sexually assaulting young women.
These are outward behaviours (and probably regular behaviours too) reflecting their inner distorted thoughts that they believe are normal and acceptable.
We kid ourselves if we think by outlawing racist words from the terraces we have defeated hatred. If we prohibit the use of anti-LGBT expressions we have defeated hatred. And if we no longer condone any offensive terms towards women we suddenly create a loving ordered society where men and women can attain their highest most noble selves and we have relegated mysoginy to the history books.
It's utter rubbish. We merely eject those from the ground who openly reveal the contents of their hearts in song. What about the many people who also share their expressions but are "wise enough" to keep quiet? Aka "clever enough to go undetected". What therefore has changed?
We have merely reminded people there are things we are not allowed to say in public anymore. But that doesn't change anyone.
By all means do all these polite expressions and yes, courtesy is a dying art in this age but don't expect it to actually stop the Mendys, Zoumas, Greenwoods from causing absolute misery to others. (And to animals)
This new morality is not morality at all. It is a la carte Morality where we pick this issue and choose that moral issue but it isn't morality..It leaves plenty of room and acceptable room for people to be completely immoral. Evil in fact! And Mendy, Zouma and Greenwood have found that loophole in our fake new morality.
Post-Christian morality? When the Catholic Church has abused more young children than any other organisation on the planet.
Of course things are changing for the better, whilst some may keep their own evil agenda hidden, many others are coming round to a more progressive way of thinking, which can clearly be seen in almost all statistics relating to crime, violent or otherwise.
But that's just it. Your "progressive utopia" is neither bringing evil (greenwood, Mendy, Zouma) out into the light or keeping evil hidden.
While I agree great evils have taken place in Church organisations (the atheist media do all they can to highlight these evils of course too) it is not the teaching of Truth that is the cause but the failure to live by that Truth that is.
In our desperate attempt to bury Christianity for a post Christian society we haven't eradicated the evil of abuse (it's everywhere now!) but we have erased the teaching, the community of prayer and worship and the hope that these essential aspects of faith give to people.
Do me a favour. Christianity and its adherents have been responsible for more atrocities than every other religion combined over the centuries. Media by definition isn't 'atheist' - it's 'agnostic'. Exposure of the thousands of scandals globally affecting millions of people is not some 'atheist agenda', any more than reporting on climate change is a 'green agenda' or on abuse of womens' rights in Islamic states is 'an anti-Muslim agenda'. It's called 'reporting'.
Nice and convenient way for you to blame people for the ills of the world, rather than religion. "It's not the rules that are wrong, it's that people won't use them". How does that square with the numerous inconsistencies, atrocities and downright fucking meanness in the bible then? If this shit wasn't written down in a book somewhere for cretins to follow, they wouldn't have something to point to and say 'a magic man in the sky made me do it' - they'd have to justify their actions themselves. Might make it a bit harder, if they didn't have a 'sacred text' to hide behind, and thus more difficult to justify to the rest of the world...
All 'faith' ever gave to people was a reason to explain why their life was so shitty. It's *literally* why religion was invented - a convenient way to keep the masses compliant, and a set of guidelines to live by when they weren't educated enough to realise that eating raw meat could kill you.
I agree. With the sentiment of personal responsibility. 100% And not blaming others. That is all good and right. I also don't believe that people should hide behind an ideology or "sacred text" to justify evil. Just one look at the state of America burning at the hands of the animals of antifa all through 2020/21 was a perfect example of what can happen when people erroneously believe that by waving flags with "anti-hate" on them, they can er hate and destroy anyone with impunity.
You are absolutely correct in asserting that great evils have occurred throughout history by those "calling themselves" this religion or that religion. Terrible things in fact. This still doesn't mean that faith itself has to be derided and binned and "cancelled" from the public square. . It just means that some people, who probably never had it, committed terrible crimes in its name. The common denominator is ...people without faith and without putting it into practice do seriously evil stuff.
The one thing always missing in these exchanges, is the bit, and significant bit at that, that reveals the great many good things that come from faith.
I fear it's THAT that many people take the greatest umbrage with in reality. The good that comes from faith. Because one knows instinctively that they have rejected this good and tried inventing their own versions of good and bad. It cannot be done. And the disintegration of the once powerful West is testament to this in this woke age. It will end terribly for its adherents.
I wasn't going to look at the video but my husband found it and showed it to me. I am horrified by what I saw, not only was the actual act despicable, but to actually have it videoed and for there to be a row of laughing emojis at the bottom of the video is unbelievable.
Zouma should not be playing for West Ham and must be made an example of. West Ham should have done what Man Utd have done with Mason Greenwood and stopped him training and playing. Violence towards animals is just as bad as violence towards people.
No, it is absolutely not.
I understand why you might state that violence towards animals is not as bad as violence towards people. There are many who might say it’s not the same thing, which is understandable given desired diet, but if Zouma went off on one at home and was filmed kicking his wife, children, dog and cat all in one session surely the viciousness of intent and action would be the same thing? You don’t agree with my perspective sure, but there are many people who would say the violence is the same, maybe even worse if it is towards an animal like it would be if it was violence towards a child. I would suggest that treating an animal the way Zouma has done is indicative of a susceptibility towards domestic violence too. I wonder how many degrees of separation there are between a man like Kurt Zouma and Mason Greenwood.
Correct - we don't agree.
That in no way diminishes my revulsion at what Zouma did, but I place human life above all other life forms - and diet has fuck all to do with it.
I am not suggesting you’re not as appalled as everybody else about what Zouma did. My post was about how different people might view the sanctity of life.
Sanctity of life. ~ Now you're talking. Was thinking this needed a mention in this thread. I wondered, as people winced at the poor cat's treatment (which, goes without saying ~ is appalling) if they would find it as appalling if it were an unborn child being hacked to pieces by an abortionist?
We can be commended as a society for not contributing our taxes in the funding of the kicking of cats. But we show our true barbarism in how we treat the most vulnerable human beings..
Always baffles me this one. A society that thinks nothing of slaughtering the most vulnerable human beings but asks for the head of a bloke who kicks a cat?!
A whiff of hypocrisy wending its way through this thread perhaps...
No, a huge stink of disgusting US style religious fundamentalism from you.
Your views and your attempts to insert them into every debate revolt me but are a useful reminder as to why I'm an humanist and just how desperate people like you are to drag us all back centuries, to deny women and minorities human rights and suppress hard won freedoms.
"US style religious fundamentalism"? I wouldn't mind if you simply accused others of being "religious fundamentalist" but accusing someone of being from the US!!
But seriously Henry ...
The "hard won freedoms" were won on The Cross. I hope one day you will appreciate that.
I have no interest in "inserting [faith] into every debate". If it is relevant to mention abortion (which isn't faith it's just basic common sense not to kill babies) then I will mention it.
And far from "dragging us back centuries" I am very keen on the very best life for women (we all have at least one of the following: mothers, sisters, aunts, daughters and wives) and minorities (we are all minorities in one context or another). I will for all the women in my life the very best life. Starting with their conception..
It was a few centuries ago that the French decided to have a revolution ~ destroying every aspect of faith in its borders and deriding and cancelling anyone who dared stand up against this (oh and killing! them)
Out of the two of us I would say it is you that wishes to return us to the late 18th Century, not me.
Too late.
You overplayed your hand, showed your true agenda too early and now everyone knows what a dangerous fundamentalist you are.
Utter shithouse of the highest order, complete coward and a bully. Football will do what it does though, it will forgive, he won't get sacked because a club with a lower sense of morality will sign him up.
Begs the question "What are the rules in this post-Christian 21st Century morality?"
It seems noone really knows.
I like to think noone on these pages would ever do things the likes of Mendy, Zouma, Greenwood et al do/done/did. And seem to laugh at too.
But these things don't START with torturing animals, beating up and sexually assaulting young women.
These are outward behaviours (and probably regular behaviours too) reflecting their inner distorted thoughts that they believe are normal and acceptable.
We kid ourselves if we think by outlawing racist words from the terraces we have defeated hatred. If we prohibit the use of anti-LGBT expressions we have defeated hatred. And if we no longer condone any offensive terms towards women we suddenly create a loving ordered society where men and women can attain their highest most noble selves and we have relegated mysoginy to the history books.
It's utter rubbish. We merely eject those from the ground who openly reveal the contents of their hearts in song. What about the many people who also share their expressions but are "wise enough" to keep quiet? Aka "clever enough to go undetected". What therefore has changed?
We have merely reminded people there are things we are not allowed to say in public anymore. But that doesn't change anyone.
By all means do all these polite expressions and yes, courtesy is a dying art in this age but don't expect it to actually stop the Mendys, Zoumas, Greenwoods from causing absolute misery to others. (And to animals)
This new morality is not morality at all. It is a la carte Morality where we pick this issue and choose that moral issue but it isn't morality..It leaves plenty of room and acceptable room for people to be completely immoral. Evil in fact! And Mendy, Zouma and Greenwood have found that loophole in our fake new morality.
Post-Christian morality? When the Catholic Church has abused more young children than any other organisation on the planet.
Of course things are changing for the better, whilst some may keep their own evil agenda hidden, many others are coming round to a more progressive way of thinking, which can clearly be seen in almost all statistics relating to crime, violent or otherwise.
But that's just it. Your "progressive utopia" is neither bringing evil (greenwood, Mendy, Zouma) out into the light or keeping evil hidden.
While I agree great evils have taken place in Church organisations (the atheist media do all they can to highlight these evils of course too) it is not the teaching of Truth that is the cause but the failure to live by that Truth that is.
In our desperate attempt to bury Christianity for a post Christian society we haven't eradicated the evil of abuse (it's everywhere now!) but we have erased the teaching, the community of prayer and worship and the hope that these essential aspects of faith give to people.
Do me a favour. Christianity and its adherents have been responsible for more atrocities than every other religion combined over the centuries. Media by definition isn't 'atheist' - it's 'agnostic'. Exposure of the thousands of scandals globally affecting millions of people is not some 'atheist agenda', any more than reporting on climate change is a 'green agenda' or on abuse of womens' rights in Islamic states is 'an anti-Muslim agenda'. It's called 'reporting'.
Nice and convenient way for you to blame people for the ills of the world, rather than religion. "It's not the rules that are wrong, it's that people won't use them". How does that square with the numerous inconsistencies, atrocities and downright fucking meanness in the bible then? If this shit wasn't written down in a book somewhere for cretins to follow, they wouldn't have something to point to and say 'a magic man in the sky made me do it' - they'd have to justify their actions themselves. Might make it a bit harder, if they didn't have a 'sacred text' to hide behind, and thus more difficult to justify to the rest of the world...
All 'faith' ever gave to people was a reason to explain why their life was so shitty. It's *literally* why religion was invented - a convenient way to keep the masses compliant, and a set of guidelines to live by when they weren't educated enough to realise that eating raw meat could kill you.
I agree. With the sentiment of personal responsibility. 100% And not blaming others. That is all good and right. I also don't believe that people should hide behind an ideology or "sacred text" to justify evil. Just one look at the state of America burning at the hands of the animals of antifa all through 2020/21 was a perfect example of what can happen when people erroneously believe that by waving flags with "anti-hate" on them, they can er hate and destroy anyone with impunity.
You are absolutely correct in asserting that great evils have occurred throughout history by those "calling themselves" this religion or that religion. Terrible things in fact. This still doesn't mean that faith itself has to be derided and binned and "cancelled" from the public square. . It just means that some people, who probably never had it, committed terrible crimes in its name. The common denominator is ...people without faith and without putting it into practice do seriously evil stuff.
The one thing always missing in these exchanges, is the bit, and significant bit at that, that reveals the great many good things that come from faith.
I fear it's THAT that many people take the greatest umbrage with in reality. The good that comes from faith. Because one knows instinctively that they have rejected this good and tried inventing their own versions of good and bad. It cannot be done. And the disintegration of the once powerful West is testament to this in this woke age. It will end terribly for its adherents.
So by your logic any terrible atrocities committed in the name of religion were done by those who didn't really have faith and therefore it had nothing to do with the religion.
Utter shithouse of the highest order, complete coward and a bully. Football will do what it does though, it will forgive, he won't get sacked because a club with a lower sense of morality will sign him up.
Begs the question "What are the rules in this post-Christian 21st Century morality?"
It seems noone really knows.
I like to think noone on these pages would ever do things the likes of Mendy, Zouma, Greenwood et al do/done/did. And seem to laugh at too.
But these things don't START with torturing animals, beating up and sexually assaulting young women.
These are outward behaviours (and probably regular behaviours too) reflecting their inner distorted thoughts that they believe are normal and acceptable.
We kid ourselves if we think by outlawing racist words from the terraces we have defeated hatred. If we prohibit the use of anti-LGBT expressions we have defeated hatred. And if we no longer condone any offensive terms towards women we suddenly create a loving ordered society where men and women can attain their highest most noble selves and we have relegated mysoginy to the history books.
It's utter rubbish. We merely eject those from the ground who openly reveal the contents of their hearts in song. What about the many people who also share their expressions but are "wise enough" to keep quiet? Aka "clever enough to go undetected". What therefore has changed?
We have merely reminded people there are things we are not allowed to say in public anymore. But that doesn't change anyone.
By all means do all these polite expressions and yes, courtesy is a dying art in this age but don't expect it to actually stop the Mendys, Zoumas, Greenwoods from causing absolute misery to others. (And to animals)
This new morality is not morality at all. It is a la carte Morality where we pick this issue and choose that moral issue but it isn't morality..It leaves plenty of room and acceptable room for people to be completely immoral. Evil in fact! And Mendy, Zouma and Greenwood have found that loophole in our fake new morality.
Post-Christian morality? When the Catholic Church has abused more young children than any other organisation on the planet.
Of course things are changing for the better, whilst some may keep their own evil agenda hidden, many others are coming round to a more progressive way of thinking, which can clearly be seen in almost all statistics relating to crime, violent or otherwise.
But that's just it. Your "progressive utopia" is neither bringing evil (greenwood, Mendy, Zouma) out into the light or keeping evil hidden.
While I agree great evils have taken place in Church organisations (the atheist media do all they can to highlight these evils of course too) it is not the teaching of Truth that is the cause but the failure to live by that Truth that is.
In our desperate attempt to bury Christianity for a post Christian society we haven't eradicated the evil of abuse (it's everywhere now!) but we have erased the teaching, the community of prayer and worship and the hope that these essential aspects of faith give to people.
Do me a favour. Christianity and its adherents have been responsible for more atrocities than every other religion combined over the centuries. Media by definition isn't 'atheist' - it's 'agnostic'. Exposure of the thousands of scandals globally affecting millions of people is not some 'atheist agenda', any more than reporting on climate change is a 'green agenda' or on abuse of womens' rights in Islamic states is 'an anti-Muslim agenda'. It's called 'reporting'.
Nice and convenient way for you to blame people for the ills of the world, rather than religion. "It's not the rules that are wrong, it's that people won't use them". How does that square with the numerous inconsistencies, atrocities and downright fucking meanness in the bible then? If this shit wasn't written down in a book somewhere for cretins to follow, they wouldn't have something to point to and say 'a magic man in the sky made me do it' - they'd have to justify their actions themselves. Might make it a bit harder, if they didn't have a 'sacred text' to hide behind, and thus more difficult to justify to the rest of the world...
All 'faith' ever gave to people was a reason to explain why their life was so shitty. It's *literally* why religion was invented - a convenient way to keep the masses compliant, and a set of guidelines to live by when they weren't educated enough to realise that eating raw meat could kill you.
I agree. With the sentiment of personal responsibility. 100% And not blaming others. That is all good and right. I also don't believe that people should hide behind an ideology or "sacred text" to justify evil. Just one look at the state of America burning at the hands of the animals of antifa all through 2020/21 was a perfect example of what can happen when people erroneously believe that by waving flags with "anti-hate" on them, they can er hate and destroy anyone with impunity.
You are absolutely correct in asserting that great evils have occurred throughout history by those "calling themselves" this religion or that religion. Terrible things in fact. This still doesn't mean that faith itself has to be derided and binned and "cancelled" from the public square. . It just means that some people, who probably never had it, committed terrible crimes in its name. The common denominator is ...people without faith and without putting it into practice do seriously evil stuff.
The one thing always missing in these exchanges, is the bit, and significant bit at that, that reveals the great many good things that come from faith.
I fear it's THAT that many people take the greatest umbrage with in reality. The good that comes from faith. Because one knows instinctively that they have rejected this good and tried inventing their own versions of good and bad. It cannot be done. And the disintegration of the once powerful West is testament to this in this woke age. It will end terribly for its adherents.
Are the ‘animals of antifa’ cats? I am also anti fascist, so would you make me a Rhino rather than a cat please?
Utter shithouse of the highest order, complete coward and a bully. Football will do what it does though, it will forgive, he won't get sacked because a club with a lower sense of morality will sign him up.
Begs the question "What are the rules in this post-Christian 21st Century morality?"
It seems noone really knows.
I like to think noone on these pages would ever do things the likes of Mendy, Zouma, Greenwood et al do/done/did. And seem to laugh at too.
But these things don't START with torturing animals, beating up and sexually assaulting young women.
These are outward behaviours (and probably regular behaviours too) reflecting their inner distorted thoughts that they believe are normal and acceptable.
We kid ourselves if we think by outlawing racist words from the terraces we have defeated hatred. If we prohibit the use of anti-LGBT expressions we have defeated hatred. And if we no longer condone any offensive terms towards women we suddenly create a loving ordered society where men and women can attain their highest most noble selves and we have relegated mysoginy to the history books.
It's utter rubbish. We merely eject those from the ground who openly reveal the contents of their hearts in song. What about the many people who also share their expressions but are "wise enough" to keep quiet? Aka "clever enough to go undetected". What therefore has changed?
We have merely reminded people there are things we are not allowed to say in public anymore. But that doesn't change anyone.
By all means do all these polite expressions and yes, courtesy is a dying art in this age but don't expect it to actually stop the Mendys, Zoumas, Greenwoods from causing absolute misery to others. (And to animals)
This new morality is not morality at all. It is a la carte Morality where we pick this issue and choose that moral issue but it isn't morality..It leaves plenty of room and acceptable room for people to be completely immoral. Evil in fact! And Mendy, Zouma and Greenwood have found that loophole in our fake new morality.
Post-Christian morality? When the Catholic Church has abused more young children than any other organisation on the planet.
Of course things are changing for the better, whilst some may keep their own evil agenda hidden, many others are coming round to a more progressive way of thinking, which can clearly be seen in almost all statistics relating to crime, violent or otherwise.
But that's just it. Your "progressive utopia" is neither bringing evil (greenwood, Mendy, Zouma) out into the light or keeping evil hidden.
While I agree great evils have taken place in Church organisations (the atheist media do all they can to highlight these evils of course too) it is not the teaching of Truth that is the cause but the failure to live by that Truth that is.
In our desperate attempt to bury Christianity for a post Christian society we haven't eradicated the evil of abuse (it's everywhere now!) but we have erased the teaching, the community of prayer and worship and the hope that these essential aspects of faith give to people.
Do me a favour. Christianity and its adherents have been responsible for more atrocities than every other religion combined over the centuries. Media by definition isn't 'atheist' - it's 'agnostic'. Exposure of the thousands of scandals globally affecting millions of people is not some 'atheist agenda', any more than reporting on climate change is a 'green agenda' or on abuse of womens' rights in Islamic states is 'an anti-Muslim agenda'. It's called 'reporting'.
Nice and convenient way for you to blame people for the ills of the world, rather than religion. "It's not the rules that are wrong, it's that people won't use them". How does that square with the numerous inconsistencies, atrocities and downright fucking meanness in the bible then? If this shit wasn't written down in a book somewhere for cretins to follow, they wouldn't have something to point to and say 'a magic man in the sky made me do it' - they'd have to justify their actions themselves. Might make it a bit harder, if they didn't have a 'sacred text' to hide behind, and thus more difficult to justify to the rest of the world...
All 'faith' ever gave to people was a reason to explain why their life was so shitty. It's *literally* why religion was invented - a convenient way to keep the masses compliant, and a set of guidelines to live by when they weren't educated enough to realise that eating raw meat could kill you.
I agree. With the sentiment of personal responsibility. 100% And not blaming others. That is all good and right. I also don't believe that people should hide behind an ideology or "sacred text" to justify evil. Just one look at the state of America burning at the hands of the animals of antifa all through 2020/21 was a perfect example of what can happen when people erroneously believe that by waving flags with "anti-hate" on them, they can er hate and destroy anyone with impunity.
You are absolutely correct in asserting that great evils have occurred throughout history by those "calling themselves" this religion or that religion. Terrible things in fact. This still doesn't mean that faith itself has to be derided and binned and "cancelled" from the public square. . It just means that some people, who probably never had it, committed terrible crimes in its name. The common denominator is ...people without faith and without putting it into practice do seriously evil stuff.
The one thing always missing in these exchanges, is the bit, and significant bit at that, that reveals the great many good things that come from faith.
I fear it's THAT that many people take the greatest umbrage with in reality. The good that comes from faith. Because one knows instinctively that they have rejected this good and tried inventing their own versions of good and bad. It cannot be done. And the disintegration of the once powerful West is testament to this in this woke age. It will end terribly for its adherents.
So by your logic any terrible atrocities committed in the name of religion were done by those who didn't really have faith and therefore it had nothing to do with the religion.
Despite them clearly having full faith that their god drives their actions.
Take away the religions and these atrocities are just actions of the mentally unstable.
Utter shithouse of the highest order, complete coward and a bully. Football will do what it does though, it will forgive, he won't get sacked because a club with a lower sense of morality will sign him up.
Begs the question "What are the rules in this post-Christian 21st Century morality?"
It seems noone really knows.
I like to think noone on these pages would ever do things the likes of Mendy, Zouma, Greenwood et al do/done/did. And seem to laugh at too.
But these things don't START with torturing animals, beating up and sexually assaulting young women.
These are outward behaviours (and probably regular behaviours too) reflecting their inner distorted thoughts that they believe are normal and acceptable.
We kid ourselves if we think by outlawing racist words from the terraces we have defeated hatred. If we prohibit the use of anti-LGBT expressions we have defeated hatred. And if we no longer condone any offensive terms towards women we suddenly create a loving ordered society where men and women can attain their highest most noble selves and we have relegated mysoginy to the history books.
It's utter rubbish. We merely eject those from the ground who openly reveal the contents of their hearts in song. What about the many people who also share their expressions but are "wise enough" to keep quiet? Aka "clever enough to go undetected". What therefore has changed?
We have merely reminded people there are things we are not allowed to say in public anymore. But that doesn't change anyone.
By all means do all these polite expressions and yes, courtesy is a dying art in this age but don't expect it to actually stop the Mendys, Zoumas, Greenwoods from causing absolute misery to others. (And to animals)
This new morality is not morality at all. It is a la carte Morality where we pick this issue and choose that moral issue but it isn't morality..It leaves plenty of room and acceptable room for people to be completely immoral. Evil in fact! And Mendy, Zouma and Greenwood have found that loophole in our fake new morality.
Post-Christian morality? When the Catholic Church has abused more young children than any other organisation on the planet.
Of course things are changing for the better, whilst some may keep their own evil agenda hidden, many others are coming round to a more progressive way of thinking, which can clearly be seen in almost all statistics relating to crime, violent or otherwise.
But that's just it. Your "progressive utopia" is neither bringing evil (greenwood, Mendy, Zouma) out into the light or keeping evil hidden.
While I agree great evils have taken place in Church organisations (the atheist media do all they can to highlight these evils of course too) it is not the teaching of Truth that is the cause but the failure to live by that Truth that is.
In our desperate attempt to bury Christianity for a post Christian society we haven't eradicated the evil of abuse (it's everywhere now!) but we have erased the teaching, the community of prayer and worship and the hope that these essential aspects of faith give to people.
Do me a favour. Christianity and its adherents have been responsible for more atrocities than every other religion combined over the centuries. Media by definition isn't 'atheist' - it's 'agnostic'. Exposure of the thousands of scandals globally affecting millions of people is not some 'atheist agenda', any more than reporting on climate change is a 'green agenda' or on abuse of womens' rights in Islamic states is 'an anti-Muslim agenda'. It's called 'reporting'.
Nice and convenient way for you to blame people for the ills of the world, rather than religion. "It's not the rules that are wrong, it's that people won't use them". How does that square with the numerous inconsistencies, atrocities and downright fucking meanness in the bible then? If this shit wasn't written down in a book somewhere for cretins to follow, they wouldn't have something to point to and say 'a magic man in the sky made me do it' - they'd have to justify their actions themselves. Might make it a bit harder, if they didn't have a 'sacred text' to hide behind, and thus more difficult to justify to the rest of the world...
All 'faith' ever gave to people was a reason to explain why their life was so shitty. It's *literally* why religion was invented - a convenient way to keep the masses compliant, and a set of guidelines to live by when they weren't educated enough to realise that eating raw meat could kill you.
I agree. With the sentiment of personal responsibility. 100% And not blaming others. That is all good and right. I also don't believe that people should hide behind an ideology or "sacred text" to justify evil. Just one look at the state of America burning at the hands of the animals of antifa all through 2020/21 was a perfect example of what can happen when people erroneously believe that by waving flags with "anti-hate" on them, they can er hate and destroy anyone with impunity.
You are absolutely correct in asserting that great evils have occurred throughout history by those "calling themselves" this religion or that religion. Terrible things in fact. This still doesn't mean that faith itself has to be derided and binned and "cancelled" from the public square. . It just means that some people, who probably never had it, committed terrible crimes in its name. The common denominator is ...people without faith and without putting it into practice do seriously evil stuff.
The one thing always missing in these exchanges, is the bit, and significant bit at that, that reveals the great many good things that come from faith.
I fear it's THAT that many people take the greatest umbrage with in reality. The good that comes from faith. Because one knows instinctively that they have rejected this good and tried inventing their own versions of good and bad. It cannot be done. And the disintegration of the once powerful West is testament to this in this woke age. It will end terribly for its adherents.
So by your logic any terrible atrocities committed in the name of religion were done by those who didn't really have faith and therefore it had nothing to do with the religion.
Despite them clearly having full faith that their god drives their actions.
Take away the religions and these atrocities are just actions of the mentally unstable.
Comments
Playing him literally the day after it all came out just lit the fuse.
Zouma will be fine and like Alonso, Ronaldo and many others before him will be just another player in a month or two.
His brother didn't cost D&R £30 million though. As distasteful as it is, West Ham's apparent indifference is financially motivated.
More like a week, when the next big football scandal comes along.
No idea if the brother is a regular at Dagenham but can't believe their squad is particularly deep.
Other players have committed serious offences and been allowed to play on after punishment.
But trying to compare one type of offence with another is always problematic. It is whataboutery and makes it seem that the speaker is trying to lessen the offence even though he said he didn't condone it.
For some reason, Jonathan creeks opening music just entered my mind. Perhaps it's a sign that he should be working the case
There's 24 hours to fill, and a lot of people have a lot of spare time, and a lot of space in their head that needs filling.
Sadly there are only too many people willing to fill that space and time, and it really doesn't do people any good.
Not the ramifications of booting a cat in the arse
I wouldn't mind if you simply accused others of being "religious fundamentalist" but accusing someone of being from the US!!
But seriously Henry ...
The "hard won freedoms" were won on The Cross. I hope one day you will appreciate that.
I have no interest in "inserting [faith] into every debate". If it is relevant to mention abortion (which isn't faith it's just basic common sense not to kill babies) then I will mention it.
And far from "dragging us back centuries" I am very keen on the very best life for women (we all have at least one of the following: mothers, sisters, aunts, daughters and wives) and minorities (we are all minorities in one context or another).
I will for all the women in my life the very best life. Starting with their conception..
It was a few centuries ago that the French decided to have a revolution ~ destroying every aspect of faith in its borders and deriding and cancelling anyone who dared stand up against this (oh and killing! them)
Out of the two of us I would say it is you that wishes to return us to the late 18th Century, not me.
I also don't believe that people should hide behind an ideology or "sacred text" to justify evil. Just one look at the state of America burning at the hands of the animals of antifa all through 2020/21 was a perfect example of what can happen when people erroneously believe that by waving flags with "anti-hate" on them, they can er hate and destroy anyone with impunity.
You are absolutely correct in asserting that great evils have occurred throughout history by those "calling themselves" this religion or that religion. Terrible things in fact. This still doesn't mean that faith itself has to be derided and binned and "cancelled" from the public square. . It just means that some people, who probably never had it, committed terrible crimes in its name. The common denominator is ...people without faith and without putting it into practice do seriously evil stuff.
The one thing always missing in these exchanges, is the bit, and significant bit at that, that reveals the great many good things that come from faith.
I fear it's THAT that many people take the greatest umbrage with in reality. The good that comes from faith. Because one knows instinctively that they have rejected this good and tried inventing their own versions of good and bad. It cannot be done. And the disintegration of the once powerful West is testament to this in this woke age. It will end terribly for its adherents.
You overplayed your hand, showed your true agenda too early and now everyone knows what a dangerous fundamentalist you are.
And it didn't work.
You lost.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/book-burning-tennessee-harry-potter-b2007904.html?amp
A perfect example that, by erroneously believing in sky fairies, people can hate and destroy anything with impunity.
Smacks of desperation.
I am also anti fascist, so would you make me a Rhino rather than a cat please?
Take away the religions and these atrocities are just actions of the mentally unstable.