Knew when the final whistle went yesterday it was the worst possible result. Draws at home are now simply not enough and it bought Adkins more time, further delaying the inevitable.
Low and behold, people are now saying stick with him until Christmas. Ffs.
Can I distance myself from that last comment please...and also Thomas as well hopefully....
I believe with he squad we have, we have more chance of a top six finish than relegation. But we have made it very hard for ourselves. I think the targets have to be incremental. In the next month we have to pull away from the bottom. At Christmas we need to be top half or close to it, then we can have a run at it.
Last season, after 16 games, Oxford had 16 points. At the same stage we had 30 points. Oxford made the Play Offs and we didn't.
Seasons are littered with sides who start badly but end up getting promoted and teams that go the other way. Our season could be broken up into three distinct parts:
First 16: 30 points Middle 15: 14 points Final 15: 30 points
Adkins was very much a part of the final third to the season.
So, to those who say that we have no chance of making the Play Offs after 9 games I would look at our finish last season under Adkins and then consider that we need to take 10 points from our next 7 matches to be in the same position as Oxford were last year.
Classic wishful thinking.
For every team that started badly and ended up getting promoted, I'll find you four or more who started badly and who didn't end up getting promoted.
The point with this current squad is that there are no obvious signs of where performances and results will improve.
Yes, we can all dream ... but please don't fall into the trap of believing that we are a lucky bounce away from promotion form.
Short on goals, vulnerable in defence and a collection of midfield players who either don't know what is expected of them, or who are unable to deliver it.
We have a squad of average League 1 players at best ... and guess what? That's where we will end up.
I believe with he squad we have, we have more chance of a top six finish than relegation. But we have made it very hard for ourselves. I think the targets have to be incremental. In the next month we have to pull away from the bottom. At Christmas we need to be top half or close to it, then we can have a run at it.
But we haven't done the first bit yet!
Sounds a fine and dandy idea, wouldn't want too much success early doors would we, otherwise someone would have to start a Countdown to Promotion thread....ahh, now that's an idea
I wouldn't lose any sleep if Adkins got sacked today, tomorrow or when ever.
Saying that a lot of the problems we have got now are the same problems we had in our awful run under Bowyer last season. Some with the same players, some with different ones.
We aren't fit enough, which is why we have to make so many changes, why we don't press and why we default to hoof ball. Which is why our full backs get so exposed.
Watson is, rightfully, in the team on merit at the moment. We were a better team with him than without him last season, we are a better team with him than with out him now. That says a lot about our problems.
I saw Plymouth's head of strength and conditioning left last week. Who is ours? We also seem to have been without a head physio for a period of time?
I don't think, in this case, sacking the manager is a golden bullet. If the next manager has the same restrictions Adkins has.
In all probability we will be having the same conversation 3, 6 or 9 months after he goes about the next manager as well.
I've not been an Adkins out guy, but I can understand people who are. However, and I have asked this before, who does TS get in to replace him? People are calling for TS to splash lots of cash, and no matter what it takes, get Wilder in. Two points on that How much of his personal fortune should he splash? Would Wilder come here? If the answer to point 1 is to offer Wilder whatever he wants, where do you draw the line, and before answering that, ask yourself what you would spend if it was your money! Finally, let's assume TS spends a million to get him in yet things don't improve the way us fans want it to in a reasonable time, does he then sack him, and lose a fortune? These are rhetorical questions, but worth thinking about in my opinion After all, when RD going through managers like there was no tomorrow, we were complaining about it!
It’s when things aren’t going too well at Charlton that you realise how little your fellow supporters actually know about football. Adkins is responsible for the players on the pitch. The person who should be sacked is the person responsible for paying 2p an hour and dragging the window out so we get unfit players through the door who are crap. Maybe if Adkins can get this load of shit actually playing well he deserves manager of the season.
We literally net spent more than any other team.
Well more than Ipswich, Sunderland, Wigan, Pompey unless there’s someone I’ve missed out.
Maybe on transfer fees but I suspect our wage structure is substantially below that of Ipswich, Wigan and Sunderland at least.
I’ve done a bit of a u turn too. There has been signs of improvement. Unbeaten in two (I know, I know). But what does sacking a manager solve? Unless he’s lost the dressing room id keep him for a few more games. Can we turn those draws into wins with a settled style of play and starting 11 that has Josh, Gilby , Lee, Levelle and Mc as the spine? And CBT fit and pivotal?
I'd love Adkins to succeed but there have been virtually no positives so far and he seems clueless as to who to select.
We had a settled side in preseason and the first few games. I would go as far as saying the first XI against Wednesday was the least shocking choice of team we have ever had.
It clearly wasn't good enough and reinforcements arrived.
We signed too many players that weren't good enough then ones that weren't fit enough. Leko, Lee, Pape, CBT, Arter and for different reasons Gilbey and Purrington aren't fit enough to play 3 games a week. That's over half a team.
I don't think it's chopping and changing for the sake of it.
I'd love Adkins to succeed but there have been virtually no positives so far and he seems clueless as to who to select.
Yeah I agree with you & I wouldn’t lose much sleep if he was sacked. But I would say the selection issues & what tactics to play isn’t totally his fault. He wanted most of the squad in before the season started, that didn’t happen. Then he’s been given a load of players four weeks into the season, all at varying fitness levels. So let’s be honest he prob is still trying to work out who to play & when & what formation etc. I would say there are positive’s like two draws - they’re not losses. Coming from behind twice yesterday, earlier in the season we prob would’ve folded & lost. The subs he made yesterday had a positive impact, two scored & one assisted. Like I say I’m not particularly an Adkins fan but he needs time to turn it around, if he can’t then he’ll be gone. Also everyone who’s saying he’s out of his depth, come on he’s having a bad time, let’s not make things up. He’s managed promotion teams, he’s been promoted from the Championship & he’s managed in the Premier League. If that’s not depth then I don’t know what is.
It’s when things aren’t going too well at Charlton that you realise how little your fellow supporters actually know about football. Adkins is responsible for the players on the pitch. The person who should be sacked is the person responsible for paying 2p an hour and dragging the window out so we get unfit players through the door who are crap. Maybe if Adkins can get this load of shit actually playing well he deserves manager of the season.
We literally net spent more than any other team.
Well more than Ipswich, Sunderland, Wigan, Pompey unless there’s someone I’ve missed out.
Maybe on transfer fees but I suspect our wage structure is substantially below that of Ipswich, Wigan and Sunderland at least.
Not sure about Sunderland, they've been far more frugal in their signings than I was expecting. Other than Alex Pritchard and Cory Evans, their other signings have all been relatively unknown youngsters. Their loan signings are also all young players, whereas we have experienced pros like Lee and Arter. And they've loaned Grigg out again and lost Wyke
I know a lot of people were underwhelmed with his appointment and I think that's why people have turned on him so quickly, but several people on this thread & the pre match thread have said they hope we lose tonight so that he gets sacked.
HAVE A BLOODY WORD WITH YOURSELVES!!!! I felt Bowyer should have gone a few weeks before he did, but I never once wanted Charlton to lose to make it happen. Absolutely ridiculous!!
I wasn't really aware of him before he arrived, but I admit I was taken in with the positive bullshit and felt really positive. The reason I have turned was purely on the farscical way we have played and the lack of any sort of plan to improve things. I just don't think he will turn it around.
The trouble is everybody seems to be underperforming at Charlton at present - I'd like to think a new manager could turn things around but optimism is in short supply.
Great idea. So like after bows if we get a new manger who can get results for 10 games then rinse and repeat
Should have kept Darren Pratley... he would have put up a proper fight. The wet fart that somehow got the job wanted him out. Well the chickens have now come home to roost. Get him out.
Should have kept Darren Pratley... he would have put up a proper fight. The wet fart that somehow got the job wanted him out. Well the chickens have now come home to roost. Get him out.
Get the wet fish out and get a decent manager in. Should have kept Pratley for another year He had fight and leadership. Before anyone replies...check the league table....pathetic
Suspect he needs 2 wins from the next 2 to stay in situ. Should be more than achievable on paper with the squad we’ve assembled, so over to team selection, formation choice and style of play…
Presumably all those that think Adkins has had enough time to produce a team that is in the promotion shake up after nine games are totally mystified as to how Paul Cook still has a job at Ipswich - his record currently reads - 5 wins from 26 matches and just the one win in all comps this season from 11 games.
Presumably all those that think Adkins has had enough time to produce a team that is in the promotion shake up after nine games are totally mystified as to how Paul Cook still has a job at Ipswich - his record currently reads - 5 wins from 26 matches and just the one win in all comps this season from 11 games.
Don't care about Ipswich comparison (they can sort out their own problems), I am concerned about the shitfest emanating from Mr Adkins direction, which is a problem we need to deal with.
Funny isn't it, I didn't read it that way....I saw it as being a naive tweet by an owner who doesn't really know his football. I can't see him giving Adkins the bullet at the moment as much as I'm beginning to think it might be for the best.
Should have kept Darren Pratley... he would have put up a proper fight. The wet fart that somehow got the job wanted him out. Well the chickens have now come home to roost. Get him out.
The question we need to ask is whether the possibility the mitigations for Adkins have some validity. I would say there are three main ones. The first we should discount because he signed up for it which is that he hasn't chosen the players. Also, we have some decent players so it isn't unreasonable things should be better. The second is the lateness of arrivals and relative fitness of players. We all know a settled side which is also fit is important. This could have some weight and explain the chopping and changing which has been an issue.
The final one is key and linked to the second. It is can he turn it round and quickly? If there are signs he can, we should stick with him. If you take the point we have been playing catch up, when is a reasonable time to have caught up? This is key to Adkins' future as a run like we have been on has to end and not be repeated. So he must be walking a tightrope now. He has to be. He has to start winning now.
I believe a good win and the confidence it will bring could have a major impact and Tuesday is where it probably needs to happen.
Presumably all those that think Adkins has had enough time to produce a team that is in the promotion shake up after nine games are totally mystified as to how Paul Cook still has a job at Ipswich - his record currently reads - 5 wins from 26 matches and just the one win in all comps this season from 11 games.
Don't care about Ipswich comparison (they can sort out their own problems), I am concerned about the shitfest emanating from Mr Adkins direction, which is a problem we need to deal with.
An expected reaction. Funny that though isn't it. All the time Ipswich were signing players left, right and centre posters on here were saying how they were going to run away with the League and that those players were the very targets we should have been going for. At the same time, when we've been manager less, Cook's name has come up on numerous occasions.
The point I was trying to make is that it takes time to bed a squad in especially when they come at various levels of fitness. Cook is finding that too and he has a very good managerial record and had longer to do so with their recruits.
People are very selective. They want to choose to ignore the run that we had under Adkins that almost took us into the Play Offs as if that doesn't count on his Charlton CV. We had fit players used to playing with us like Maatsen, Millar, JFC, Gilbey and Aneke on that run. He's had to replace them with no pre season to gel the side. Anyone notice the improvement in Gilbey when he was brought back by Adkins last season? Adkins also explained to those who want to listen why he's had to make so many changes from game to game.
The chances are now that Adkins will be gone soon enough which will please many. so here's one question for the managerial experts on here. Who is the Manager who is going to be prepared to come in and turn this round straightaway. Paul Cook?
The other aspect of the vitriol towards Adkins that I do find strange is how some are throwing his as they would call it, his "happy clappy" persona and how he can't be a strong Manager as a result. Ask DJ whether he thinks that Adkins is incapable of making difficult decisions? Ask DJ whether Adkins sat him down and explained what he needs to do to become a better player. Ask DJ whether Adkins threw him against the wall in doing so. Ask DJ whether he publicly slated him and others and blamed them for our poor results.
Almost every team goes through a bad run at some point in the season. Should they all be sacked? And how many games do we give the next one? Nine? That might mean we'll have half a dozen Managers this season.
The question we need to ask is whether the possibility the mitigations for Adkins have some validity. I would say there are three main ones. The first we should discount because he signed up for it which is that he hasn't chosen the players. Also, we have some decent players so it isn't unreasonable things should be better. The second is the lateness of arrivals and relative fitness of players. We all know a settled side which is also fit is important. This could have some weight and explain the chopping and changing which has been an issue.
The final one is key and linked to the second. It is can he turn it round and quickly? If there are signs he can, we should stick with him. If you take the point we have been playing catch up, when is a reasonable time to have caught up? This is key to Adkins' future as a run like we have been on has to end and not be repeated. So he must be walking a tightrope now. He has to be. He has to start winning now.
I believe a good win and the confidence it will bring could have a major impact and Tuesday is where it probably needs to happen.
I think it's right that Adkins is under pressure now. At the end of the day, unless we are told other wise, the buck stops with him. But I am not convinced that a) it won't improve and b) removing him now will fix the problems.
Some of the things I would like to know the answers to, before I go full Adkins out are:
1) Who decided Clare, Dobson and Morgan was good enough and then who decided they weren't.
2) Who decided who the back room staff are? Will they be prescribed to the next manager?
3) Do we play 4231/433 because Adkins is the manager or is Adkins the manager because he prefers that system?
4) Will removing Adkins make the players fitter?
In my opinion to be successful, at this level, the manager needs full control of transfers, team selection, tactics, back room staff selection etc etc if they are going to be fully responsible for the results.
Maybe he does need to go but if the next person is plugged into the same restrictions you'll get, generally, the same results.
Presumably all those that think Adkins has had enough time to produce a team that is in the promotion shake up after nine games are totally mystified as to how Paul Cook still has a job at Ipswich - his record currently reads - 5 wins from 26 matches and just the one win in all comps this season from 11 games.
Don't care about Ipswich comparison (they can sort out their own problems), I am concerned about the shitfest emanating from Mr Adkins direction, which is a problem we need to deal with.
An expected reaction. Funny that though isn't it. All the time Ipswich were signing players left, right and centre posters on here were saying how they were going to run away with the League and that those players were the very targets we should have been going for. At the same time, when we've been manager less, Cook's name has come up on numerous occasions.
The point I was trying to make is that it takes time to bed a squad in especially when they come at various levels of fitness. Cook is finding that too and he has a very good managerial record and had longer to do so with their recruits.
People are very selective. They want to choose to ignore the run that we had under Adkins that almost took us into the Play Offs as if that doesn't count on his Charlton CV. We had fit players used to playing with us like Maatsen, Millar, JFC, Gilbey and Aneke on that run. He's had to replace them with no pre season to gel the side. Anyone notice the improvement in Gilbey when he was brought back by Adkins last season? Adkins also explained to those who want to listen why he's had to make so many changes from game to game.
The chances are now that Adkins will be gone soon enough which will please many. so here's one question for the managerial experts on here. Who is the Manager who is going to be prepared to come in and turn this round straightaway. Paul Cook?
The other aspect of the vitriol towards Adkins that I do find strange is how some are throwing his as they would call it, his "happy clappy" persona and how he can't be a strong Manager as a result. Ask DJ whether he thinks that Adkins is incapable of making difficult decisions? Ask DJ whether Adkins sat him down and explained what he needs to do to become a better player. Ask DJ whether Adkins threw him against the wall in doing so. Ask DJ whether he publicly slated him and others and blamed them for our poor results.
Almost every team goes through a bad run at some point in the season. Should they all be sacked? And how many games do we give the next one? Nine? That might mean we'll have half a dozen Managers this season.
In no particular order:
John Coleman Gareth Ainsworth Ryan Lowe Matt Taylor Simon Weaver Kenny Jackett
I don’t care if some of those teams are currently above us. It’s not being arrogant to say we’re a bigger pull than their current clubs if we offered them the job. All have recent success.
He needs to win the next game to have any chance of keeping his job I reckon.
And Bolton were unlucky to lose at Sunderland, apparently. Great timing.
It would not matter how they played at Sunderland, their league position alone makes them favourites. I bet Big Josh is licking his lips looking at our defence.
Comments
But we haven't done the first bit yet!
For every team that started badly and ended up getting promoted, I'll find you four or more who started badly and who didn't end up getting promoted.
The point with this current squad is that there are no obvious signs of where performances and results will improve.
Yes, we can all dream ... but please don't fall into the trap of believing that we are a lucky bounce away from promotion form.
Short on goals, vulnerable in defence and a collection of midfield players who either don't know what is expected of them, or who are unable to deliver it.
We have a squad of average League 1 players at best ... and guess what? That's where we will end up.
Sounds a fine and dandy idea, wouldn't want too much success early doors would we, otherwise someone would have to start a Countdown to Promotion thread....ahh, now that's an idea
Saying that a lot of the problems we have got now are the same problems we had in our awful run under Bowyer last season. Some with the same players, some with different ones.
We aren't fit enough, which is why we have to make so many changes, why we don't press and why we default to hoof ball. Which is why our full backs get so exposed.
Watson is, rightfully, in the team on merit at the moment. We were a better team with him than without him last season, we are a better team with him than with out him now. That says a lot about our problems.
I saw Plymouth's head of strength and conditioning left last week. Who is ours? We also seem to have been without a head physio for a period of time?
I don't think, in this case, sacking the manager is a golden bullet. If the next manager has the same restrictions Adkins has.
In all probability we will be having the same conversation 3, 6 or 9 months after he goes about the next manager as well.
Unbeaten in our last 2 games.
However, and I have asked this before, who does TS get in to replace him?
People are calling for TS to splash lots of cash, and no matter what it takes, get Wilder in.
Two points on that How much of his personal fortune should he splash?
Would Wilder come here?
If the answer to point 1 is to offer Wilder whatever he wants, where do you draw the line, and before answering that, ask yourself what you would spend if it was your money!
Finally, let's assume TS spends a million to get him in yet things don't improve the way us fans want it to in a reasonable time, does he then sack him, and lose a fortune?
These are rhetorical questions, but worth thinking about in my opinion
After all, when RD going through managers like there was no tomorrow, we were complaining about it!
It clearly wasn't good enough and reinforcements arrived.
We signed too many players that weren't good enough then ones that weren't fit enough. Leko, Lee, Pape, CBT, Arter and for different reasons Gilbey and Purrington aren't fit enough to play 3 games a week. That's over half a team.
I don't think it's chopping and changing for the sake of it.
Should have kept Darren Pratley... he would have put up a proper fight. The wet fart that somehow got the job wanted him out. Well the chickens have now come home to roost. Get him out. in Adkins Out? Comment by NM18 10:01PM
Get the wet fish out and get a decent manager in. Should have kept Pratley for another year He had fight and leadership. Before anyone replies...check the league table....pathetic in Adkins Out? Comment by NM18 September 19
Send positive Nigel down to talk to them......peas in a pod...wet fish heads. in Protesters in Dartford Comment by NM18 September 15
Should have kept Pratley...he gave his all. Adkins is pointless Losing to Cheltenham...Premier League Ambitions....bollox....manager is a wet fish in Post-Match Thread | Charlton Athletic v Cheltenham Town | 11/09/21 Comment by NM18 September 11
So do you think that we should have kept Pratley? And more to the point, is Adkins a "wet fish" or a "wet fart"? Or both?He doesn’t know his best formation, he doesn’t know his best 18 let alone his best 11.
Players are in, out, in, out
We’ve won game and we started with a 4-4-2 yet he’s not started with that formation again
We’re not creating and we make average teams look like world beaters.
Defensively we’re all at sea and have been for some time - what does he do in training to address that?
It’s time for a change…
The final one is key and linked to the second. It is can he turn it round and quickly? If there are signs he can, we should stick with him. If you take the point we have been playing catch up, when is a reasonable time to have caught up? This is key to Adkins' future as a run like we have been on has to end and not be repeated. So he must be walking a tightrope now. He has to be. He has to start winning now.
I believe a good win and the confidence it will bring could have a major impact and Tuesday is where it probably needs to happen.
The point I was trying to make is that it takes time to bed a squad in especially when they come at various levels of fitness. Cook is finding that too and he has a very good managerial record and had longer to do so with their recruits.
People are very selective. They want to choose to ignore the run that we had under Adkins that almost took us into the Play Offs as if that doesn't count on his Charlton CV. We had fit players used to playing with us like Maatsen, Millar, JFC, Gilbey and Aneke on that run. He's had to replace them with no pre season to gel the side. Anyone notice the improvement in Gilbey when he was brought back by Adkins last season? Adkins also explained to those who want to listen why he's had to make so many changes from game to game.
The chances are now that Adkins will be gone soon enough which will please many. so here's one question for the managerial experts on here. Who is the Manager who is going to be prepared to come in and turn this round straightaway. Paul Cook?
The other aspect of the vitriol towards Adkins that I do find strange is how some are throwing his as they would call it, his "happy clappy" persona and how he can't be a strong Manager as a result. Ask DJ whether he thinks that Adkins is incapable of making difficult decisions? Ask DJ whether Adkins sat him down and explained what he needs to do to become a better player. Ask DJ whether Adkins threw him against the wall in doing so. Ask DJ whether he publicly slated him and others and blamed them for our poor results.
Almost every team goes through a bad run at some point in the season. Should they all be sacked? And how many games do we give the next one? Nine? That might mean we'll have half a dozen Managers this season.
Some of the things I would like to know the answers to, before I go full Adkins out are:
1) Who decided Clare, Dobson and Morgan was good enough and then who decided they weren't.
2) Who decided who the back room staff are? Will they be prescribed to the next manager?
3) Do we play 4231/433 because Adkins is the manager or is Adkins the manager because he prefers that system?
4) Will removing Adkins make the players fitter?
In my opinion to be successful, at this level, the manager needs full control of transfers, team selection, tactics, back room staff selection etc etc if they are going to be fully responsible for the results.
Maybe he does need to go but if the next person is plugged into the same restrictions you'll get, generally, the same results.
John Coleman
Gareth Ainsworth
Ryan Lowe
Matt Taylor
Simon Weaver
Kenny Jackett
I don’t care if some of those teams are currently above us. It’s not being arrogant to say we’re a bigger pull than their current clubs if we offered them the job. All have recent success.