People need to stop treating footballers contracts like normal employment contracts. That is not how it works otherwise I would have had to be bought out of my last contract to move between employers
They are largely the same with some niche differences, its very similar to contracting work.
If i signed a year contract to work for company A as a contractor and i decide after 4 months company B will pay me more so im leaving, Company A have the legal ability to make me reimburse them, take me to court etc. This happens enough to be a problem in the IT world when we discuss niche specialisms.
In most cases a company wont bother as its cheaper to just let someone go and replace them.
But a football club will almost always as the player is a monetary asset to them on their books. And you can move whenever you want but a player can only move within a specific window and timeframe
Pre-contracts are generally not binding under English law as they are usually marked 'Subject to Contract'
In this case the contract not only valid by hungarian law, but valid by uefa law too.
This is not a verbal agreement. Id the 'Subject to Contract' contains all of the element of the final contract, also valid by the English law too.
Have you seen the pre-contract that he signed?
Have you seen the picture of him holding up a Hungarian club shirt? I don’t think he does that if he’s not signed something binding.
This is what I don't understand. How binding is a pre contract? He is still under contract with us and can't sign a legally binding contract elsewhere.
do pre contract have break clauses?
In basic terms, I'm guessing a pre contract suggests that on expiration of a contract xxxx will sign a contract at and that during this time, he is unable to negotiate terms with other clubs? This is purely intent to speak again when out of contract?
A quick google search suggests that the "binding" factor depends on essential items such as duration and renumeration, without these, it's just a gentleman's agreement.
Google says "pre contracts can be as slippery as a wet pitch. Whether they score a goal or get intercepted depends on the fine print"
i doubt a top flight professional al football club would offer a pre contract without essential terms, unless Dobson requested a break clause.
Time will tell!!
This is futball pre contract under uefa rules, that allowed to the player talk with other clubs, and also allowed to sign for the summer with other clubs too.
This is not a google thing, this is uefa regulation.
Google it and see what uefa say about pre contracts.
these are not clear or it seems, set in stone and if the pre contract is poorly worded, it's a gentleman's agreement. No more, no less.
i seriously doubt anyone on this forum has seen the wording and therefore, all comments are just speculation.
There are hundreds if not thousands of transfers that happen via pre-contract agreements every summer. I have never seen one fail.
Well that is interesting, but with all due respect I think you need to give us some insight into how you are getting to see them. Well, if you want everybody to believe you and to learn from it, anyway.
And then the detail, like, are most of them signed several months ahead like this one?
Actually I can think of one involving Charlton. A very notorious one. Joe Gomez.
Not sure I should share this, but I have a mate who is an employment lawyer.
He is not a football fan, but told me a young chap called "Dobbo" entered his legal practice with an interesting predicament.
Apparently Dobbo had signed a pre-contract with an obscure Hungarian football team - but now wants to renege on it.
Dobbo is keen to stay with his current employer - as he believes "they are really going places" and also because "SE London is nicer than Hungary".
When my friend looked at the pre-contract, he noted that it was "not worth the paper it was written on" - and is absolutely not binding according to English Law. Apparently English Law is FAR superior to Hungarian Law in every conceivable way.
As said, my friend does not know much about football - but is a very able (and real) expert in employment law.
Make of that what you will.
theres probably dozens of "Dobbos" who have signed pre-contracts with Hungarian football clubs, it may not be our one!
I'd Love Dobbo to stay but watching Conner Coventry over the last couple of months i'd say he was almost the carbon copy , maybe even better , so it wouldn't be the end of the world.
If we really wanted to keep him and he has changed his mind about leaving then i'm almost certain the solicitors could sort something out but maybe he and his family are set on going to Hungary but it can't possibly be for footballing reasons ?
There are hundreds if not thousands of transfers that happen via pre-contract agreements every summer. I have never seen one fail.
Well that is interesting, but with all due respect I think you need to give us some insight into how you are getting to see them.
And then the detail, like, are most of them signed several months ahead like this one?
Actually I can think of one involving Charlton. A very notorious one. Joe Gomez.
I follow a broad range of different clubs and leagues, that's how. They usually get announced a decent chunk in advance. Aaron Ramsey for example signed his in February before moving from Arsenal to Juventus. Speaking of the present a few Scottish teams have made the most of being a different country and have signed players with pre contracts from English teams, most notably Rangers are signing someone from Norwich.
Joe Gomez wasn't a pre-contract agreement, he was bought for a fee which is very different.
There are hundreds if not thousands of transfers that happen via pre-contract agreements every summer. I have never seen one fail.
Well that is interesting, but with all due respect I think you need to give us some insight into how you are getting to see them.
And then the detail, like, are most of them signed several months ahead like this one?
Actually I can think of one involving Charlton. A very notorious one. Joe Gomez.
I follow a broad range of different clubs and leagues, that's how. They usually get announced a decent chunk in advance. Aaron Ramsey for example signed his in February before moving from Arsenal to Juventus. Speaking of the present a few Scottish teams have made the most of being a different country and have signed players with pre contracts from English teams, most notably Rangers are signing someone from Norwich.
Joe Gomez wasn't a pre-contract agreement, he was bought for a fee which is very different.
That isn't to say they haven't failed by the way, just that we might not have known about it. For the Hungarian club to have gone public about it they will have to have been very sure that the transfer wouldn't fail
Pre-contracts are generally not binding under English law as they are usually marked 'Subject to Contract'
In this case the contract not only valid by hungarian law, but valid by uefa law too.
This is not a verbal agreement. Id the 'Subject to Contract' contains all of the element of the final contract, also valid by the English law too.
Have you seen the pre-contract that he signed?
Have you seen the picture of him holding up a Hungarian club shirt? I don’t think he does that if he’s not signed something binding.
This is what I don't understand. How binding is a pre contract? He is still under contract with us and can't sign a legally binding contract elsewhere.
Yes he can, you can a contract with a foreign club once you only have 6 months left of your contract and with 1 month left with another English club.
its legally binding and the players registration will be transferred.
It’s done and dusted, it’s not in anyway a rare situation.
@Vjacheslav you are a very interesting poster regarding this situation.
My take is that Dobson will not go to Hungary and he will stay in England, just a hunch and not doubting your input.
Over and out.
Also intresting be in here.
As I saw Charlton got some fresh air to avoid the relegation. 14th place 7 points from relegation. (ok there is two game in hand) So I think you should stay at League One.
Not sure I should share this, but I have a mate who is an employment lawyer.
He is not a football fan, but told me a young chap called "Dobbo" entered his legal practice with an interesting predicament.
Apparently Dobbo had signed a pre-contract with an obscure Hungarian football team - but now wants to renege on it.
Dobbo is keen to stay with his current employer - as he believes "they are really going places" and also because "SE London is nicer than Hungary".
When my friend looked at the pre-contract, he noted that it was "not worth the paper it was written on" - and is absolutely not binding according to English Law. Apparently English Law is FAR superior to Hungarian Law in every conceivable way.
As said, my friend does not know much about football - but is a very able (and real) expert in employment law.
I would suggest there's little value in people arguing over a contract they haven't seen. Wait til the end of the season and see what happens. If he goes and we do badly you can all blame Scott for letting him go/not trying hard enough to keep him, if we do well without him we can all applaud our decision to let him go and remark that he had started to stand out less in a better team. If he reneges on the contract to stay and does well we praise Jones for convincing him to stay and if he stays and does badly you can all blame Scott for overpaying to keep him when we should have moved on. Either way everyone is happy, or no-one is happy which is when everyone here is secretly at their happiest.
Pre-contracts are generally not binding under English law as they are usually marked 'Subject to Contract'
In this case the contract not only valid by hungarian law, but valid by uefa law too.
This is not a verbal agreement. Id the 'Subject to Contract' contains all of the element of the final contract, also valid by the English law too.
Have you seen the pre-contract that he signed?
Have you seen the picture of him holding up a Hungarian club shirt? I don’t think he does that if he’s not signed something binding.
This is what I don't understand. How binding is a pre contract? He is still under contract with us and can't sign a legally binding contract elsewhere.
Yes he can, you can a contract with a foreign club once you only have 6 months left of your contract and with 1 month left with another English club.
its legally binding and the players registration will be transferred.
It’s done and dusted, it’s not in anyway a rare situation.
Yes that is the uefa rule, and that is why the pre contract valid at anywhere including UK, or Hungary.
What if Dobson's had a change of heart and now doesn't want to go to Hungary? just guessing but the Hungarian club wouldn't want to be saddled with a player who doesn't want to be there either and draining the wage bill for 3 years either so guessing maybe it could be cancelled if compensation is agreed. Or he could be sold back for a small fee once the contract starts?
Didn't this happen to us back in the 90's we signed was it Joey Beauchamp who signed for us one summer and then left almost immediately and never played for us?
What if Dobson's had a change of heart and now doesn't want to go to Hungary? just guessing but the Hungarian club wouldn't want to be saddled with a player who doesn't want to be there either and draining the wage bill for 3 years either so guessing maybe it could be cancelled if compensation is agreed. Or he could be sold back for a small fee once the contract starts?
Didn't this happen to us back in the 90's we signed was it Joey Beauchamp who signed for us one summer and then left almost immediately and never played for us?
Dobbo will be going of that I have no doubt. I reckon Jones will be keen to try and get someone else in anyway to improve the squad. Personally not that fussed, he's been good for us but time for everyone to move on in the summer
Pre-contracts are generally not binding under English law as they are usually marked 'Subject to Contract'
In this case the contract not only valid by hungarian law, but valid by uefa law too.
This is not a verbal agreement. Id the 'Subject to Contract' contains all of the element of the final contract, also valid by the English law too.
Have you seen the pre-contract that he signed?
Have you seen the picture of him holding up a Hungarian club shirt? I don’t think he does that if he’s not signed something binding.
This is what I don't understand. How binding is a pre contract? He is still under contract with us and can't sign a legally binding contract elsewhere.
Yes he can, you can a contract with a foreign club once you only have 6 months left of your contract and with 1 month left with another English club.
its legally binding and the players registration will be transferred.
It’s done and dusted, it’s not in anyway a rare situation.
Yes that is the uefa rule, and that is why the pre contract valid at anywhere including UK, or Hungary.
There will be clauses in the contract. If Dobson breaks his leg on Saturday or suffers a career ending injury, will Fehervar pay his wages for the next three years?
It could just be PR, but reading between the lines, it doesn't sound cut-and-dried yet.
"He’s our player,” said Jones, when asked by the South London Press about Dobson’s future. “There are opportunities to go to Hungary, and so on, but why would he want to go and leave a fantastic football club? Where he is loved and cared for…and is going to get better.
“With massive respect he has played a lot of League One football. But why not try and be a Championship footballer? Why not try and do what he does in League One, in the Championship? That is his goal. That is what we have to try and make him – change his mentality and hopefully change his life.
“He doesn’t need to go to Hungary to do that. He has an opportunity to do that here. That is what I’ve reiterated to him. It is a wonderful opportunity and a wonderful football club – that’s why I’ve come here.
“I’m proud to be here and I want him to be proud and others to be proud. We’re going to get better and push each other.
“I didn’t want him to leave because I knew he could put in performances like that.
“I think anyone is good enough to play in the Championship if they believe in themselves and do absolutely everything possible. And when they get to the Championship, what is their next goal? I had a group at Luton in League Two and we told them they were going to be Championship. We said if you buy into it and believe in it then you are going to play in the Championship. Then when they got to the Championship we said: ‘Okay, you’re going to play in the Premier League’.
“And now they are League Two players playing in the Premier League. Changing their life – from believing in it, buying into it from sacrificing everything they possibly needed to – and that’s where they are.”
If only the guy who decided to disrupt the build up to Reading away on the morning of the game could pop back on to explain the situation. He won’t though because it doesn’t suit his agenda to do so. Either that or Dobbo told him to put a sock in it.
If only the guy who decided to disrupt the build up to Reading away on the morning of the game could pop back on to explain the situation. He won’t though because it doesn’t suit his agenda to do so. Either that or Dobbo told him to put a sock in it.
If only the guy who decided to disrupt the build up to Reading away on the morning of the game could pop back on to explain the situation. He won’t though because it doesn’t suit his agenda to do so. Either that or Dobbo told him to put a sock in it.
Are we really saying a post on Charlton Life before a game disrupted the teams preparation? Always thought the reaction on here to that posting was somewhat over the top.
I am pretty sure Dobbo is gone this summer. Gutted as he is very very decent. But ultimately with Hungarian tax a flat 15% he will be on a very significant wage compared to the UK and if he is back in the UK on loan in 12-18 months he will be much wealthier for it. Good luck to him.
@Vjacheslav you are a very interesting poster regarding this situation.
My take is that Dobson will not go to Hungary and he will stay in England, just a hunch and not doubting your input.
Over and out.
Also intresting be in here.
As I saw Charlton got some fresh air to avoid the relegation. 14th place 7 points from relegation. (ok there is two game in hand) So I think you should stay at League One.
We are the biggest club in L1 and were never getting relegated once our previous manager was removed. We will be going up to the Championship next season and likely be back in the Premier League where we belong within 3. 😀
What if Dobson's had a change of heart and now doesn't want to go to Hungary? just guessing but the Hungarian club wouldn't want to be saddled with a player who doesn't want to be there either and draining the wage bill for 3 years either so guessing maybe it could be cancelled if compensation is agreed. Or he could be sold back for a small fee once the contract starts?
Didn't this happen to us back in the 90's we signed was it Joey Beauchamp who signed for us one summer and then left almost immediately and never played for us?
What if Dobson's had a change of heart and now doesn't want to go to Hungary? just guessing but the Hungarian club wouldn't want to be saddled with a player who doesn't want to be there either and draining the wage bill for 3 years either so guessing maybe it could be cancelled if compensation is agreed. Or he could be sold back for a small fee once the contract starts?
Didn't this happen to us back in the 90's we signed was it Joey Beauchamp who signed for us one summer and then left almost immediately and never played for us?
Jeremy Goss
Very interesting, and a shame. I remember him as a very decent player for Norwich.
If only the guy who decided to disrupt the build up to Reading away on the morning of the game could pop back on to explain the situation. He won’t though because it doesn’t suit his agenda to do so. Either that or Dobbo told him to put a sock in it.
Are we really saying a post on Charlton Life before a game disputed the teams preparation? Always thought the reaction on here to that posting was somewhat over the top.
I am pretty sure Dobbo is gone this summer. Gutted as he is very very decent. But ultimately with Hungarian tax a flat 15% he will be on a very significant wage compared to the UK and if he is back in the UK on loan in 12-18 months he will be much wealthier for it. Good luck to him.
And this is where things have to be taken into consideration. His disposable income can increase greatly due to tax, an increase in salary, cost of living etc. IF he does go, good luck to him and hopefully it is profitable in financial terms and life experience.
What if Dobson's had a change of heart and now doesn't want to go to Hungary? just guessing but the Hungarian club wouldn't want to be saddled with a player who doesn't want to be there either and draining the wage bill for 3 years either so guessing maybe it could be cancelled if compensation is agreed. Or he could be sold back for a small fee once the contract starts?
Didn't this happen to us back in the 90's we signed was it Joey Beauchamp who signed for us one summer and then left almost immediately and never played for us?
Beauchamp went to West Ham.
Joey Beauchamp hung himself a couple of years ago, wasn't pretty at the end. Remains a hero at Oxford Utd.
Comments
these are not clear or it seems, set in stone and if the pre contract is poorly worded, it's a gentleman's agreement. No more, no less.
i seriously doubt anyone on this forum has seen the wording and therefore, all comments are just speculation.
as i said, time will tell
And then the detail, like, are most of them signed several months ahead like this one?
Actually I can think of one involving Charlton. A very notorious one. Joe Gomez.
If we really wanted to keep him and he has changed his mind about leaving then i'm almost certain the solicitors could sort something out but maybe he and his family are set on going to Hungary but it can't possibly be for footballing reasons ?
Joe Gomez wasn't a pre-contract agreement, he was bought for a fee which is very different.
its legally binding and the players registration will be transferred.
It’s done and dusted, it’s not in anyway a rare situation.
As I saw Charlton got some fresh air to avoid the relegation. 14th place 7 points from relegation. (ok there is two game in hand)
So I think you should stay at League One.
Didn't this happen to us back in the 90's we signed was it Joey Beauchamp who signed for us one summer and then left almost immediately and never played for us?
It could just be PR, but reading between the lines, it doesn't sound cut-and-dried yet.
"He’s our player,” said Jones, when asked by the South London Press about Dobson’s future. “There are opportunities to go to Hungary, and so on, but why would he want to go and leave a fantastic football club? Where he is loved and cared for…and is going to get better.
“With massive respect he has played a lot of League One football. But why not try and be a Championship footballer? Why not try and do what he does in League One, in the Championship? That is his goal. That is what we have to try and make him – change his mentality and hopefully change his life.
“He doesn’t need to go to Hungary to do that. He has an opportunity to do that here. That is what I’ve reiterated to him. It is a wonderful opportunity and a wonderful football club – that’s why I’ve come here.
“I’m proud to be here and I want him to be proud and others to be proud. We’re going to get better and push each other.
“I didn’t want him to leave because I knew he could put in performances like that.
“I think anyone is good enough to play in the Championship if they believe in themselves and do absolutely everything possible. And when they get to the Championship, what is their next goal? I had a group at Luton in League Two and we told them they were going to be Championship. We said if you buy into it and believe in it then you are going to play in the Championship. Then when they got to the Championship we said: ‘Okay, you’re going to play in the Premier League’.
“And now they are League Two players playing in the Premier League. Changing their life – from believing in it, buying into it from sacrificing everything they possibly needed to – and that’s where they are.”
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/sport/charlton-athletic-boss-jones-wants-george-dobson-to-stay-long-term/
Are we really saying a post on Charlton Life before a game disrupted the teams preparation? Always thought the reaction on here to that posting was somewhat over the top.
I am pretty sure Dobbo is gone this summer. Gutted as he is very very decent. But ultimately with Hungarian tax a flat 15% he will be on a very significant wage compared to the UK and if he is back in the UK on loan in 12-18 months he will be much wealthier for it. Good luck to him.
We are the biggest club in L1 and were never getting relegated once our previous manager was removed. We will be going up to the Championship next season and likely be back in the Premier League where we belong within 3. 😀
I remember him as a very decent player for Norwich.
His disposable income can increase greatly due to tax, an increase in salary, cost of living etc.
IF he does go, good luck to him and hopefully it is profitable in financial terms and life experience.