None of the young players coming through are at the level of Messi or CR7, but that's a pretty unfair way of judging them. It's like being the best batsman after Bradman retires, it's impossible to be as good!
Exactly, arguably there was no one that good between Maradona and these two (original Ronaldo had a chance until the injuries), and we still had some incredible players.
Zidane was ok though. To be honest Maradona before my time so I can't really comment if Zidane came close to him but was the standout player for me growing up. Just had an aura about him with everybody on the pitch knowing how good he was. I think Henry was the same in the Prem, almost like the opposition just wanted to watch him too.
What does help those players not in the Premier league is the amount of games their side can feasibly win 7-0 Spain and France definitely Germany less so
Any margin of victory the likes of Barca, Real, PSG and Bayern are capable of, is surely also applicable to Man City? Barca, Real and PSG didn't even win their league last season.
None of the young players coming through are at the level of Messi or CR7, but that's a pretty unfair way of judging them. It's like being the best batsman after Bradman retires, it's impossible to be as good!
Exactly, arguably there was no one that good between Maradona and these two (original Ronaldo had a chance until the injuries), and we still had some incredible players.
Zidane was ok though. To be honest Maradona before my time so I can't really comment if Zidane came close to him but was the standout player for me growing up. Just had an aura about him with everybody on the pitch knowing how good he was. I think Henry was the same in the Prem, almost like the opposition just wanted to watch him too.
None of the young players coming through are at the level of Messi or CR7, but that's a pretty unfair way of judging them. It's like being the best batsman after Bradman retires, it's impossible to be as good!
Exactly, arguably there was no one that good between Maradona and these two (original Ronaldo had a chance until the injuries), and we still had some incredible players.
Zidane was ok though. To be honest Maradona before my time so I can't really comment if Zidane came close to him but was the standout player for me growing up. Just had an aura about him with everybody on the pitch knowing how good he was. I think Henry was the same in the Prem, almost like the opposition just wanted to watch him too.
Gullit had the same presence/aura.
That Dutch team was funny, so brilliant in 88, didn't qualify in 84 or 86, weren't very good in 90 or 92 either.
None of the young players coming through are at the level of Messi or CR7, but that's a pretty unfair way of judging them. It's like being the best batsman after Bradman retires, it's impossible to be as good!
Exactly, arguably there was no one that good between Maradona and these two (original Ronaldo had a chance until the injuries), and we still had some incredible players.
Zidane was ok though. To be honest Maradona before my time so I can't really comment if Zidane came close to him but was the standout player for me growing up. Just had an aura about him with everybody on the pitch knowing how good he was. I think Henry was the same in the Prem, almost like the opposition just wanted to watch him too.
Gullit had the same presence/aura.
That Dutch team was funny, so brilliant in 88, didn't qualify in 84 or 86, weren't very good in 90 or 92 either.
Gullit, Van Basten and Rijkaard were always better for AC Milan than the national side (88 aside).
None of the young players coming through are at the level of Messi or CR7, but that's a pretty unfair way of judging them. It's like being the best batsman after Bradman retires, it's impossible to be as good!
Exactly, arguably there was no one that good between Maradona and these two (original Ronaldo had a chance until the injuries), and we still had some incredible players.
Zidane was ok though. To be honest Maradona before my time so I can't really comment if Zidane came close to him but was the standout player for me growing up. Just had an aura about him with everybody on the pitch knowing how good he was. I think Henry was the same in the Prem, almost like the opposition just wanted to watch him too.
Gullit had the same presence/aura.
That Dutch team was funny, so brilliant in 88, didn't qualify in 84 or 86, weren't very good in 90 or 92 either.
Gullit, Van Basten and Rijkaard were always better for AC Milan than the national side (88 aside).
What a team that Milan side were.
And the 3 Germans at inter were always better for Germany than Inter.
None of the young players coming through are at the level of Messi or CR7, but that's a pretty unfair way of judging them. It's like being the best batsman after Bradman retires, it's impossible to be as good!
Exactly, arguably there was no one that good between Maradona and these two (original Ronaldo had a chance until the injuries), and we still had some incredible players.
Zidane was ok though. To be honest Maradona before my time so I can't really comment if Zidane came close to him but was the standout player for me growing up. Just had an aura about him with everybody on the pitch knowing how good he was. I think Henry was the same in the Prem, almost like the opposition just wanted to watch him too.
Guess that's the point, we had players like Baggio, Van Basten, Zidane, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho... all fantastic players.
There probably won't be another pair like Messi & Cristiano Ronaldo for a while, but a level below that is still incredible.
To me, to be classed as an all time great you have to be more than just a great goalscorer, you've got to have that touch of genius about you, the ability to influence games through your skill, charisma and drive, and get spectators off their feet.
Hence the likes of Lewandowski and other great goalscorers not quite reaching the ultimate level of footballing god. I haven't seen enough of Gerd Muller (a ridiculous 563 goals for Munich) to decide which category he falls into.
What does help those players not in the Premier league is the amount of games their side can feasibly win 7-0 Spain and France definitely Germany less so
Any margin of victory the likes of Barca, Real, PSG and Bayern are capable of, is surely also applicable to Man City? Barca, Real and PSG didn't even win their league last season.
I see what you are saying, what I mean is the gap between the top sides and everyone else in those countries is enormous. If you were to match up the Premier league v any of those leagues club for club the Premier league would come out on top. I dint like saying that as I hugely resent the Premier league but there is also a different style of attrition about English football, and the favourability of set pieces as ways for lower sides to upset higher sides doesn't exist in those countries nor do they take the option of roughing sides up and being competitive. Ive watched Getafe and Espanyol try and pass the ball like Barcelona against a Barcelona with Xavi, Iniesta, Suarez, Neymar and Messi in. If that was Burnley they would have kicked the shit out of them to be competitive
What does help those players not in the Premier league is the amount of games their side can feasibly win 7-0 Spain and France definitely Germany less so
Any margin of victory the likes of Barca, Real, PSG and Bayern are capable of, is surely also applicable to Man City? Barca, Real and PSG didn't even win their league last season.
I see what you are saying, what I mean is the gap between the top sides and everyone else in those countries is enormous. If you were to match up the Premier league v any of those leagues club for club the Premier league would come out on top. I dint like saying that as I hugely resent the Premier league but there is also a different style of attrition about English football, and the favourability of set pieces as ways for lower sides to upset higher sides doesn't exist in those countries nor do they take the option of roughing sides up and being competitive. Ive watched Getafe and Espanyol try and pass the ball like Barcelona against a Barcelona with Xavi, Iniesta, Suarez, Neymar and Messi in. If that was Burnley they would have kicked the shit out of them to be competitive
This is true of course but only because of the vast gulf in money.
Bayern can literally go and get whoever they want from whoever is their closet challenger at the time, used to be Dortmund now it's RB Leipzig. PSG of course are funded by a country and probably pay more to Neymar and Messi than some clubs do to their entire squads. Same in Spain, the tv deal is structured so that Barca and Real get far more than other clubs.
But in the PL even the bottom side gets 100m so whilst they're obviously not competitive against the big boys, they can go and buy better players from other countries and the odd shock result does occur. I also think after a few years where the champions have been miles clear we now have a league that is probably the most competitive it's been for a long time, with 4 clubs all in with a realistic shout of the title.
What does help those players not in the Premier league is the amount of games their side can feasibly win 7-0 Spain and France definitely Germany less so
Any margin of victory the likes of Barca, Real, PSG and Bayern are capable of, is surely also applicable to Man City? Barca, Real and PSG didn't even win their league last season.
I see what you are saying, what I mean is the gap between the top sides and everyone else in those countries is enormous. If you were to match up the Premier league v any of those leagues club for club the Premier league would come out on top. I dint like saying that as I hugely resent the Premier league but there is also a different style of attrition about English football, and the favourability of set pieces as ways for lower sides to upset higher sides doesn't exist in those countries nor do they take the option of roughing sides up and being competitive. Ive watched Getafe and Espanyol try and pass the ball like Barcelona against a Barcelona with Xavi, Iniesta, Suarez, Neymar and Messi in. If that was Burnley they would have kicked the shit out of them to be competitive
This is true of course but only because of the vast gulf in money.
Bayern can literally go and get whoever they want from whoever is their closet challenger at the time, used to be Dortmund now it's RB Leipzig. PSG of course are funded by a country and probably pay more to Neymar and Messi than some clubs do to their entire squads. Same in Spain, the tv deal is structured so that Barca and Real get far more than other clubs.
But in the PL even the bottom side gets 100m so whilst they're obviously not competitive against the big boys, they can go and buy better players from other countries and the odd shock result does occur. I also think after a few years where the champions have been miles clear we now have a league that is probably the most competitive it's been for a long time, with 4 clubs all in with a realistic shout of the title.
It's the bottom sides in the PL being competitive which makes the PL so successful globally
Yes the big sides generally beat the smaller sides, but they have to work hard to do so. The like of City, Liverpool, Utd and Chelsea can't rest their big players when playing the likes of Watford, Burnley, Brentford etc and expect to cruise through.
There is too much emphasis placed on goals - some of the best players have been completely overlooked because they played in different positions.
Neville Southall was unbelievable in his pomp
Paolo Maldini, Alessandro Costacurta and Franco Baresi were incredible defenders but never get a mention because defending is not as fashionable.
it’s always a bit of a bone of contention for me because ,as they say, “goals win games but clean sheets win titles” and these positions rarely get recognised
having said all that I would love to see Haaland and Mbappe in the premier league because they are just brilliant to watch.
There is too much emphasis placed on goals - some of the best players have been completely overlooked because they played in different positions.
Neville Southall was unbelievable in his pomp
Paolo Maldini, Alessandro Costacurta and Franco Baresi were incredible defenders but never get a mention because defending is not as fashionable.
it’s always a bit of a bone of contention for me because ,as they say, “goals win games but clean sheets win titles” and these positions rarely get recognised
having said all that I would love to see Haaland and Mbappe in the premier league because they are just brilliant to watch.
Very true.
Whenever I'm asked who I think is the best English player of all time, I always answer Bobby Moore.
There is too much emphasis placed on goals - some of the best players have been completely overlooked because they played in different positions.
Neville Southall was unbelievable in his pomp
Paolo Maldini, Alessandro Costacurta and Franco Baresi were incredible defenders but never get a mention because defending is not as fashionable.
it’s always a bit of a bone of contention for me because ,as they say, “goals win games but clean sheets win titles” and these positions rarely get recognised
having said all that I would love to see Haaland and Mbappe in the premier league because they are just brilliant to watch.
Very true.
Whenever I'm asked who I think is the best English player of all time, I always answer Bobby Moore.
I also agree with you both. I suppose it's a sign of the generally low standard of out and out defending but I can't think of a single player with the potential to be half of Maldini's quality. The likes of Chiellini are a dying breed. Only Dias has been mentioned on this thread I think, and he's good but never going to be the best player in the world.
Thats a fair comment and for me who is an unashamed acolyte of Andrea Pirlo, Paolo Maldini, Paul Scholes and their graceful kin they don't get recognised enough and whilst the purists amongst us get them its the goalscorers who sell the shirts so to speak
Genuinely not sure who the best player in the world is now.
Messi and Ronaldo are down a level from where they've been, Modric too, De Bruyne and Naymar have had injures, Mbappe was a bit poor at the Euros....
Lewandowski?
Bruno Fernandes, Romelu Lukaku and Haaland are right up there.
But CR7 is the best in the world right now, if "down a level" equates to being the Euros golden boot winner, and breaking the all time international goals record by singlehandedly snatching victory from the jaws of defeat in a WC qualifier game by scoring a last minute brace, then I'd love to know what you think keeping that level would have entailed
Ronaldo is still a fantastic player.
He's also definitely not the same player he was, which at 36 is fair enough.
Football is a team game, Ronaldo makes teams he plays for worse, ergo he isn't the best footballer.
There is too much emphasis placed on goals - some of the best players have been completely overlooked because they played in different positions.
Neville Southall was unbelievable in his pomp
Paolo Maldini, Alessandro Costacurta and Franco Baresi were incredible defenders but never get a mention because defending is not as fashionable.
it’s always a bit of a bone of contention for me because ,as they say, “goals win games but clean sheets win titles” and these positions rarely get recognised
having said all that I would love to see Haaland and Mbappe in the premier league because they are just brilliant to watch.
Very true.
Whenever I'm asked who I think is the best English player of all time, I always answer Bobby Moore.
Munich robbed us of Duncan Edwards who was generally reckoned to be the talent of his generation. He'd have been 30 by the '66 World Cup so in his prime. Amazing to think Moore was only 25 then, he played like a seasoned prop who'd been around for ever.
Genuinely not sure who the best player in the world is now.
Messi and Ronaldo are down a level from where they've been, Modric too, De Bruyne and Naymar have had injures, Mbappe was a bit poor at the Euros....
Lewandowski?
Bruno Fernandes, Romelu Lukaku and Haaland are right up there.
But CR7 is the best in the world right now, if "down a level" equates to being the Euros golden boot winner, and breaking the all time international goals record by singlehandedly snatching victory from the jaws of defeat in a WC qualifier game by scoring a last minute brace, then I'd love to know what you think keeping that level would have entailed
Ronaldo is still a fantastic player.
He's also definitely not the same player he was, which at 36 is fair enough.
Football is a team game, Ronaldo makes teams he plays for worse, ergo he isn't the best footballer.
The last 18 months have been an indicator that Ronaldo is only human.
He is and was a legend of the game.
The problem is, Ronaldo holds a specific style of play that is and wasn't fluent with modern man utd set up.
Erling Haaland and the jury is in His achievements have been remarkably similar at all his clubs so far He makes all talk of personnel and systems redundant - get the ball into the danger area, ideally within the width of the posts and he gets there at the right time and scores He's a big bloke who can maintain 20mph over 50 yards or more His Dad, Alf Inge, was a very capable pro in his era - What price Miles Leaburn is an equivalent generational upgrade on his Dad? We can dream eh?
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What a team that Milan side were.
There probably won't be another pair like Messi & Cristiano Ronaldo for a while, but a level below that is still incredible.
Hence the likes of Lewandowski and other great goalscorers not quite reaching the ultimate level of footballing god. I haven't seen enough of Gerd Muller (a ridiculous 563 goals for Munich) to decide which category he falls into.
Bayern can literally go and get whoever they want from whoever is their closet challenger at the time, used to be Dortmund now it's RB Leipzig.
PSG of course are funded by a country and probably pay more to Neymar and Messi than some clubs do to their entire squads.
Same in Spain, the tv deal is structured so that Barca and Real get far more than other clubs.
But in the PL even the bottom side gets 100m so whilst they're obviously not competitive against the big boys, they can go and buy better players from other countries and the odd shock result does occur. I also think after a few years where the champions have been miles clear we now have a league that is probably the most competitive it's been for a long time, with 4 clubs all in with a realistic shout of the title.
Yes the big sides generally beat the smaller sides, but they have to work hard to do so. The like of City, Liverpool, Utd and Chelsea can't rest their big players when playing the likes of Watford, Burnley, Brentford etc and expect to cruise through.
Neville Southall was unbelievable in his pomp
Paolo Maldini, Alessandro Costacurta and Franco Baresi were incredible defenders but never get a mention because defending is not as fashionable.
it’s always a bit of a bone of contention for me because ,as they say, “goals win games but clean sheets win titles” and these positions rarely get recognised
having said all that I would love to see Haaland and Mbappe in the premier league because they are just brilliant to watch.
Giggs was a mile better surely.
I remember a big Cantona or Bergkamp debate at one time.
The last 18 months have been an indicator that Ronaldo is only human.
He is and was a legend of the game.
The problem is, Ronaldo holds a specific style of play that is and wasn't fluent with modern man utd set up.
CR7 days are not over but they will be declining
His achievements have been remarkably similar at all his clubs so far
He makes all talk of personnel and systems redundant - get the ball into the danger area, ideally within the width of the posts and he gets there at the right time and scores
He's a big bloke who can maintain 20mph over 50 yards or more
His Dad, Alf Inge, was a very capable pro in his era - What price Miles Leaburn is an equivalent generational upgrade on his Dad? We can dream eh?
Both incredibly players imo.