Vaccine
Comments
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Bollocks. I am going to have to edit my joke now...SoundAsa£ said:
Did you get points?Justin20474 said:Just had my 1st jab in Sidcup Tesco.2 -
I’m a bit disappointed in that, as it very clearly explains the issue with the vaccine cases and implies they form in the brain. It also says it’s a different mechanism to clots caused by the pill - but doesn’t explain what the implications are. Do they form in a different, less immediately risky location? Saying it works different is fine but it doesn’t clearly explain why that’s important.McBobbin said:Worth a read if such things interest you https://theconversation.com/blood-clot-risks-comparing-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-and-the-contraceptive-pill-1586520 -
Same last Saturday - arrived 1/2 hour early - they said no problem - I was out before the actual appointment time! Great service. Felt a bit achy in the afternoon and tired with sore arm. 24 hours later nothing. Was Pfizer/Biontech.ElfsborgAddick said:Just had my second jab at St Thomas'. All done within ten minutes of arriving.
Anybody that criticises the NHS needs to have a rethink.3 -
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Not just cost in the case of AZ, also ease of storage, which leads on to ease of distribution. (I think the same applies to the J&J, but I'd need to doublecheck that) It's still going to be needed in areas where they don't have access to the lower temperature refrigeration required by the MRNA ones, but probably won't end up being as profitable as they might've hoped.Alwaysneil said:
Maybe because the other vaccines will also have side effects (I see the Johnson and Johnson one is being investigated in the US for the same). Maybe the mRNA vaccine side effects have not yet been noticed.SELR_addicks said:I think the AZ vaccine will get dropped very soon from everywhere.
When there's less harmful alternatives, why would we still push forward and give this jab?
https://news.sky.com/story/risk-of-blood-clot-after-covid-is-eight-times-higher-than-after-astrazeneca-jab-study-12276088
also the AZ and J&J vaccines have benefits the others do not. Cost in the case of AZ, single shot in the case of J&J.
Richer countries may choose to use mRNA vaccines over others if they have overcome volume restrictions but I doubt that AZ etc will be dropped everywhere.
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Different types of blood clots.CafcWest said:
AZ Vaccine blood clots are a lot more dangerous and deadly.0 -
Something tells me SELR_addicks is a fan of Maggie Thatcher
You turn if you want to, but the man's not for turning.1 -
It just suggests to me that "it's complicated" and also something of a false equivalence... But at the same time questions our attitude to risk.SomervilleAddick said:
I’m a bit disappointed in that, as it very clearly explains the issue with the vaccine cases and implies they form in the brain. It also says it’s a different mechanism to clots caused by the pill - but doesn’t explain what the implications are. Do they form in a different, less immediately risky location? Saying it works different is fine but it doesn’t clearly explain why that’s important.McBobbin said:Worth a read if such things interest you https://theconversation.com/blood-clot-risks-comparing-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-and-the-contraceptive-pill-1586520 -
Just as well they are highly unlikely then! And...if you have the AZ vaccine you greatly.reduce your chances.of a covid-caused blood clotSELR_addicks said:
Different types of blood clots.CafcWest said:
AZ Vaccine blood clots are a lot more dangerous and deadly.0 -
I think the issue is that just saying “blood clots” and using the raw numbers doesn’t provide enough context. It’s really how many of these are immediately life threatening. Incidence is one measure, mortality rate is the one we need to see to get a better equivalenceMcBobbin said:
It just suggests to me that "it's complicated" and also something of a false equivalence... But at the same time questions our attitude to risk.SomervilleAddick said:
I’m a bit disappointed in that, as it very clearly explains the issue with the vaccine cases and implies they form in the brain. It also says it’s a different mechanism to clots caused by the pill - but doesn’t explain what the implications are. Do they form in a different, less immediately risky location? Saying it works different is fine but it doesn’t clearly explain why that’s important.McBobbin said:Worth a read if such things interest you https://theconversation.com/blood-clot-risks-comparing-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-and-the-contraceptive-pill-1586521 -
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"You are correct that there are medications such as the contraceptive pill that can cause blood clots.
But from a risk point of view, comparing the two (the AstraZeneca vaccine and the combined contraceptive pill) is problematic."
You are more likely to get a blood clot from the combined contraceptive pill.
Blood clots caused by the pill have been estimated to affect around 1 in 1,000 women.
Whereas your risk of getting the clotting disorder from the AZ vaccine is around 4 in 1 million. (I believe it's now actually 5 or 6).
But it's the fatality rate that really differs.
With the combined oral contraceptive pill, your risk of dying from a blood clot has been estimated to be around 3 per cent.
But the fatality rate from people who develop the rare clotting disorder after getting the AZ vaccine is estimated to be around 25 per cent.
The reasons the death rates differ so much is that the clots formed by the vaccine are believed to be an immune response to the vaccine, and is not the same process in the body that can cause other more common clots like deep vein thrombosis.
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CafcWest said:
Same last Saturday - arrived 1/2 hour early - they said no problem - I was out before the actual appointment time! Great service. Felt a bit achy in the afternoon and tired with sore arm. 24 hours later nothing. Was Pfizer/Biontech.ElfsborgAddick said:Just had my second jab at St Thomas'. All done within ten minutes of arriving.
Anybody that criticises the NHS needs to have a rethink.
Nice to hear, onwards and upwards mate.
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So the risk of dying of the vaccine is one in a million (4 in a million times 25%) and for the pill is 3 in 100,000 (1 in 1000 times 3%)?SELR_addicks said:"You are correct that there are medications such as the contraceptive pill that can cause blood clots.But from a risk point of view, comparing the two (the AstraZeneca vaccine and the combined contraceptive pill) is problematic."
You are more likely to get a blood clot from the combined contraceptive pill.
Blood clots caused by the pill have been estimated to affect around 1 in 1,000 women.
Whereas your risk of getting the clotting disorder from the AZ vaccine is around 4 in 1 million. (I believe it's now actually 5 or 6).
But it's the fatality rate that really differs.
With the combined oral contraceptive pill, your risk of dying from a blood clot has been estimated to be around 3 per cent.
But the fatality rate from people who develop the rare clotting disorder after getting the AZ vaccine is estimated to be around 25 per cent.
The reasons the death rates differ so much is that the clots formed by the vaccine are believed to be an immune response to the vaccine, and is not the same process in the body that can cause other more common clots like deep vein thrombosis.
The other thing to bear in mind is that millions more will have the vaccine that the pill, but the pill will presumably be taken year in, year out for a subset of women (vaccine may have a booster)
Personally, I'll take the risk. You are probably as likely to die in a road accident on way to the clinic2 -
This is also only after each jab remember. You have to take two.McBobbin said:
So the risk of dying of the vaccine is one in a million (4 in a million times 25%) and for the pill is 3 in 100,000 (1 in 1000 times 3%)?SELR_addicks said:"You are correct that there are medications such as the contraceptive pill that can cause blood clots.But from a risk point of view, comparing the two (the AstraZeneca vaccine and the combined contraceptive pill) is problematic."
You are more likely to get a blood clot from the combined contraceptive pill.
Blood clots caused by the pill have been estimated to affect around 1 in 1,000 women.
Whereas your risk of getting the clotting disorder from the AZ vaccine is around 4 in 1 million. (I believe it's now actually 5 or 6).
But it's the fatality rate that really differs.
With the combined oral contraceptive pill, your risk of dying from a blood clot has been estimated to be around 3 per cent.
But the fatality rate from people who develop the rare clotting disorder after getting the AZ vaccine is estimated to be around 25 per cent.
The reasons the death rates differ so much is that the clots formed by the vaccine are believed to be an immune response to the vaccine, and is not the same process in the body that can cause other more common clots like deep vein thrombosis.
The other thing to bear in mind is that millions more will have the vaccine that the pill, but the pill will presumably be taken year in, year out for a subset of women (vaccine may have a booster)
Personally, I'll take the risk. You are probably as likely to die in a road accident on way to the clinic
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This Death thing ...
Bear this in mind.
If your chances of dying from the vaccine increase ... well then, your chances of dying from cancer, road accidents and/or a surfeit of lampreys correspondingly decrease.
It's all about 'when' ... not 'how'.0 -
Justin20474 said:Just had my 1st jab in Sidcup Tesco.
Snap, late afternoon for me though. Very efficient, AZ, I'll take my chances.1 -
The guy booking us in was very chatty, made the time pass while waiting which helped me forget about the 4 in 1000000 of getting a fatal blood clot.Rob7Lee said:Justin20474 said:Just had my 1st jab in Sidcup Tesco.
Snap, late afternoon for me though. Very efficient, AZ, I'll take my chances.3 -
Luckily I took a few more than two contraceptive pills or I'd have more children than hens.SELR_addicks said:
This is also only after each jab remember. You have to take two.McBobbin said:
So the risk of dying of the vaccine is one in a million (4 in a million times 25%) and for the pill is 3 in 100,000 (1 in 1000 times 3%)?SELR_addicks said:"You are correct that there are medications such as the contraceptive pill that can cause blood clots.But from a risk point of view, comparing the two (the AstraZeneca vaccine and the combined contraceptive pill) is problematic."
You are more likely to get a blood clot from the combined contraceptive pill.
Blood clots caused by the pill have been estimated to affect around 1 in 1,000 women.
Whereas your risk of getting the clotting disorder from the AZ vaccine is around 4 in 1 million. (I believe it's now actually 5 or 6).
But it's the fatality rate that really differs.
With the combined oral contraceptive pill, your risk of dying from a blood clot has been estimated to be around 3 per cent.
But the fatality rate from people who develop the rare clotting disorder after getting the AZ vaccine is estimated to be around 25 per cent.
The reasons the death rates differ so much is that the clots formed by the vaccine are believed to be an immune response to the vaccine, and is not the same process in the body that can cause other more common clots like deep vein thrombosis.
The other thing to bear in mind is that millions more will have the vaccine that the pill, but the pill will presumably be taken year in, year out for a subset of women (vaccine may have a booster)
Personally, I'll take the risk. You are probably as likely to die in a road accident on way to the clinic
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Yer same bloke I think.Justin20474 said:
The guy booking us in was very chatty, made the time pass while waiting which helped me forget about the 4 in 1000000 of getting a fatal blood clot.Rob7Lee said:Justin20474 said:Just had my 1st jab in Sidcup Tesco.
Snap, late afternoon for me though. Very efficient, AZ, I'll take my chances.
Feel a bit rough this morning, almost a hangover feeling that I can just about remember, sweaty and legs ache, sure it'll pass.2 -
I was expecting to get my second jab in the second week of May.
Yesterday I got a text message from surgery to book an appointment. Off to Eltham this evening.
I have read several warnings that the after effects of a second Pfizer jab are worse than the first. I was lucky enough not to have any the first time so I will have to wait and see.1 -
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I had second Pfizer. First time no effects. Second time - sore arm for a couple of days and 24 hours of feeling quite tired.3
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So I’m being told by Mr O that there’s a new variant from India which is responsible for the huge surge in numbers there & it’s just been discovered in the UK.
India isn’t one of the red zone countries apparently 😳0 -
Oh!KBslittlesis said:So I’m being told by Mr O that there’s a new variant from India which is responsible for the huge surge in numbers there & it’s just been discovered in the UK.
India isn’t one of the red zone countries apparently 😳0 -
Apparently one of the reasons India isn't on the red list is because Boris has an official visit lined up....
Public safety never seems to be the priority.2 -
Correct they just said it on the news, about 50 cases here at present.KBslittlesis said:So I’m being told by Mr O that there’s a new variant from India which is responsible for the huge surge in numbers there & it’s just been discovered in the UK.
India isn’t one of the red zone countries apparently 😳
India now 2nd to USA, overtaking Brazil for the most cases.0 -
There was an item on the news from India where there was a lot of ceremonial intermingling.
It was a contrast to the notion of social distancing that has been tried out I the UK.0 -
I think the visit is more about making sure the Indian factory producing the AZ vaccine doesn't close down. I'm sure India will be on the red list but not yet. That my view fwiw.0
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Thanks, that makes perfect sense.SELR_addicks said:Apparently one of the reasons India isn't on the red list is because Boris has an official visit lined up....
Public safety never seems to be the priority.
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