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Fairytale of New York
Comments
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I saw them live once. No idea what they were singing about, I was having a row with the other half at the time.stonemuse said:
I’ve seen them live many times including with Kirsty ... she always sang the correct lyrics as did Shanepaulie8290 said:I read somewhere that Kirsty MacColl before she passed away when singing live changed the wording as she didnt like to say it either.
Also Shane MacGowan apparently doesnt like the word and only used it because it fitted the narrative of 2 arseholes arguing.
But as I said if The Pogues whose song it is don't care then why should it matter
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I think it's reasonable to be able to discuss something other than Covid as it's now been at least 8 months.Rothko said:Don’t worry about 50k dead from COVID, worry about a word on a station where this song will sound weird enough already9 -
I am reminded of the Sex Pistols' 'Pretty Vacant'.
Mr Rotten would use an excellent delivery style on (eg) 'Top of the Pops' to emphasise the fact that 'vacant' is a two-syllable word.
It's time that we purged history of all such filth. The only question that worries me: What are we doing today that will be unacceptable in 20 years time?1 -
Of course I do. But this one of those nonsense stories to distract from more important things, like get angry about Uncle Ben’s rice instead of failed track and trace.se9addick said:
You realise this is a forum where people discuss the fortunes of a third tier football team every single day, right?!Rothko said:Don’t worry about 50k dead from COVID, worry about a word on a station where this song will sound weird enough already
it’s a nonsense story, and gives cunts like Fox oxygen he should be starved of5 -
Really dislike censorship like this, you can always change stations, or go and make a cup of tea. I am against radio stations making decisions like this.
The BBC has always looked rather stupid when it does things like this, even on Radio 3 with the music of Stravinsky, and Radio 1 with Paul McCartney. If you are offended do not listen. Not listened to radio1 for over 15 years, so totally unaware of what they play?
I was hardly the average 'pop chart ' fan at any time.Do they ever play any Pink Floyd, Hendrix, or Frank Zappa, except the singles of Money and The wind cries Mary, rarely except on Paul Jones show, or 6 music?.0 -
The thing is, the radio edit of it isn't a new thing this year. I noticed Absolute were playing it last year, and they may have done before that too. The thing that's really making me laugh is that Oliver's Army is now trending on twitter because a load of people have only just noticed that that's got a radio edit too, and THAT's been played for donkey's years.
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Right wingers desperately seek something to get angry about.aliwibble said:The thing is, the radio edit of it isn't a new thing this year. I noticed Absolute were playing it last year, and they may have done before that too. The thing that's really making me laugh is that Oliver's Army is now trending on twitter because a load of people have only just noticed that that's got a radio edit too, and THAT's been played for donkey's years.11 -
Because the Radio 2 audience is generally aged 40+ and couldn't give a flying f*ck what people think about lyrics being "offensive". The word "fagot" is also in Money for Nothing by Dire Straits - is that the next song to be "altered".killerandflash said:It IS culturally interesting that Radio 1 are playing the edited version, whereas Radio 2 will play the original.1 -
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You're a bumStig said:
I saw them live once. No idea what they were singing about, I was having a row with the other half at the time.stonemuse said:
I’ve seen them live many times including with Kirsty ... she always sang the correct lyrics as did Shanepaulie8290 said:I read somewhere that Kirsty MacColl before she passed away when singing live changed the wording as she didnt like to say it either.
Also Shane MacGowan apparently doesnt like the word and only used it because it fitted the narrative of 2 arseholes arguing.
But as I said if The Pogues whose song it is don't care then why should it matter
You're a punk
You're an old slut on junk
Lying there almost dead on a drip in that bed
You scumbag, you maggot
You cheap lousy faggot
Happy Christmas your arse
I pray God it's our last
Not sure if that’s the song or your row.0 -
Already has been.golfaddick said:
Because the Radio 2 audience is generally aged 40+ and couldn't give a flying f*ck what people think about lyrics being "offensive". The word "fagot" is also in Money for Nothing by Dire Straits - is that the next song to be "altered".killerandflash said:It IS culturally interesting that Radio 1 are playing the edited version, whereas Radio 2 will play the original.
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The true meaning of Christmasguinnessaddick said:
You're a bumStig said:
I saw them live once. No idea what they were singing about, I was having a row with the other half at the time.stonemuse said:
I’ve seen them live many times including with Kirsty ... she always sang the correct lyrics as did Shanepaulie8290 said:I read somewhere that Kirsty MacColl before she passed away when singing live changed the wording as she didnt like to say it either.
Also Shane MacGowan apparently doesnt like the word and only used it because it fitted the narrative of 2 arseholes arguing.
But as I said if The Pogues whose song it is don't care then why should it matter
You're a punk
You're an old slut on junk
Lying there almost dead on a drip in that bed
You scumbag, you maggot
You cheap lousy faggot
Happy Christmas your arse
I pray God it's our last5 -
This isn't news is it? Firstly that radio edits exist, and secondly they're overzealous.
I have a radio edit of Eminem's Guilty Conscious which has whole lines removed and other lines that make zero sense. I have a radio edit of Teenage Dirtbag where "Her boyfriend's a dick, he brings a gun to school" has both "dick" and "gun" bleeped out.
The fact that Fairy Tale of New York has survived so long without radio editors butchering it if a miracle.0 -
I haven't been this angry since Gregg's brought out that vegan sausage roll.
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I remember when it used to be the older generation that wanted the edited version - how times change.golfaddick said:
Because the Radio 2 audience is generally aged 40+ and couldn't give a flying f*ck what people think about lyrics being "offensive". The word "fagot" is also in Money for Nothing by Dire Straits - is that the next song to be "altered".killerandflash said:It IS culturally interesting that Radio 1 are playing the edited version, whereas Radio 2 will play the original.
I heard a debate about this today on Radio 5 which was almost like a spoof. I'm unclear why the song should cause any more offence now than when it was released.
I'm curious as to who gets to police the words that can no longer be said on the radio even if they are in context.
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I knew Kirsty quite well back in the day........I have to say she was a very lovely, unassuming and gentle lass.
Her death, particularly with her kids being so close by, was an absolute tragedy. 😥😥😢13 -
It is ridiculous it's a news story. But I did see a Tweet earlier from a non-straight man that said [paraphrasing] "I'm not bothered by the word, or the song, but I am bothered by the likes of Fox and legion other straight people getting angry at their inability to listen to and sing a slur in a song".
That sums it up. Storm in a teacup but if you're upset by this cEnSOrShIp, give your head a good old wobble.15 -
So what censorship are you okay with? Where should it start and end?PaddyP17 said:It is ridiculous it's a news story. But I did see a Tweet earlier from a non-straight man that said [paraphrasing] "I'm not bothered by the word, or the song, but I am bothered by the likes of Fox and legion other straight people getting angry at their inability to listen to and sing a slur in a song".
That sums it up. Storm in a teacup but if you're upset by this cEnSOrShIp, give your head a good old wobble.
Serious question as there are loads of offensive words and attitudes in art and literature and I'm curious how they are going to be policed in an objective manner?1 -
Should have seen these geezers when Wet Ass Pussy got censored for radio play. Livid.3
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Sadly I feel this is true for people on both sides of the political spectrumHenry Irving said:
Right wingers desperately seek something to get angry about.aliwibble said:The thing is, the radio edit of it isn't a new thing this year. I noticed Absolute were playing it last year, and they may have done before that too. The thing that's really making me laugh is that Oliver's Army is now trending on twitter because a load of people have only just noticed that that's got a radio edit too, and THAT's been played for donkey's years.5 -
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Does the radio not have watershed hours like on TV?
I see no difference in the use of words in a song than of those in a film. Say BBC1 showed a Quentin Tarantino movie at 11pm, why can’t the radio have unedited songs at the same time?0 -
But watershed on broadcast tv/radio isn't really censorship is it? If a rap song with explicit epithets was aired on daytime radio uncensored there would be uproar. We have these rules to prevent children from being exposed to content they aren't necessarily equipped to process yet. That's why we accept these conditions, surely? Consenting adults are able to buy and listen to versions with the uncensored lyrics. So I can't really see how there is an issue of censorship.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
So what censorship are you okay with? Where should it start a7nd end?PaddyP17 said:It is ridiculous it's a news story. But I did see a Tweet earlier from a non-straight man that said [paraphrasing] "I'm not bothered by the word, or the song, but I am bothered by the likes of Fox and legion other straight people getting angry at their inability to listen to and sing a slur in a song".
That sums it up. Storm in a teacup but if you're upset by this cEnSOrShIp, give your head a good old wobble.
Serious question as there are loads of offensive words and attitudes in art and literature and I'm curious how they are going to be policed in an objective manner?0 -
Those on the left and right are both keen on censorship when it suits them.KentishAddick said:
Sadly I feel this is true for people on both sides of the political spectrumHenry Irving said:
Right wingers desperately seek something to get angry about.aliwibble said:The thing is, the radio edit of it isn't a new thing this year. I noticed Absolute were playing it last year, and they may have done before that too. The thing that's really making me laugh is that Oliver's Army is now trending on twitter because a load of people have only just noticed that that's got a radio edit too, and THAT's been played for donkey's years.5 -
I tend to agree. Radio not having a watershed is crazy, listening to the radio at 11pm and hearing the most benign words edited out is depressing.ValleyGary said:Does the radio not have watershed hours like on TV?
I see no difference in the use of words in a song than of those in a film. Say BBC1 showed a Quentin Tarantino movie at 11pm, why can’t the radio have unedited songs at the same time?0 -
Far more angry left wingers on Twitter than right wingersKentishAddick said:
Sadly I feel this is true for people on both sides of the political spectrumHenry Irving said:
Right wingers desperately seek something to get angry about.aliwibble said:The thing is, the radio edit of it isn't a new thing this year. I noticed Absolute were playing it last year, and they may have done before that too. The thing that's really making me laugh is that Oliver's Army is now trending on twitter because a load of people have only just noticed that that's got a radio edit too, and THAT's been played for donkey's years.
Indeed if Twitter was representative of the UK, Corbyn would easily have won the last election2 -
You'll have to excuse me as I'm likely to lay out some stuff I'm misremembering here. And this is going to be a long-winded answer.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
So what censorship are you okay with? Where should it start and end?PaddyP17 said:It is ridiculous it's a news story. But I did see a Tweet earlier from a non-straight man that said [paraphrasing] "I'm not bothered by the word, or the song, but I am bothered by the likes of Fox and legion other straight people getting angry at their inability to listen to and sing a slur in a song".
That sums it up. Storm in a teacup but if you're upset by this cEnSOrShIp, give your head a good old wobble.
Serious question as there are loads of offensive words and attitudes in art and literature and I'm curious how they are going to be policed in an objective manner?
Well, I generally subscribe to Popper's paradox of tolerance. Basically, if society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually compromised by intolerant views and thoughts. So you can't tolerate the intolerant.
This is fairly well rebutted by John Rawls in A Theory Of Justice wherein he lays out that a tolerant society should tolerate the intolerant - otherwise, society itself is intolerant. But, he qualified this by saying if the liberties of the "intolerant" are sufficiently oppressing/stifling the liberties of those who are "tolerant", then it's okay to limit those liberties.
In this instance I think it plausible that people are sufficiently upset by use of the word "f*ggot" in Fairytale of New York that it impacts on their wellbeing. Use of what is generally a pejorative term, also, is also not what I'd consider something someone is at liberty to do.
So it's a bit of a case by case basis, really. And I'm applying some very broad-brush thinking to this particular issue. And it depends on how you might define liberty; tolerance; freedom of expression; and similar.
And what I've said is probably better summed up by saying "don't be a dick". This doesn't even take into account that the word is censored only on Radio 1, and not by the BBC as a whole/the government/society as a whole. But, yeah, there are my thoughts on censorship, broadly speaking.
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Kids listen to explicit lyrics in songs all the times and watch porn on their phones so changing the words to a Pogues song to protect them seems a bit futile.Addickhead86 said:
But watershed on broadcast tv/radio isn't really censorship is it? If a rap song with explicit epithets was aired on daytime radio uncensored there would be uproar. We have these rules to prevent children from being exposed to content they aren't necessarily equipped to process yet. That's why we accept these conditions, surely? Consenting adults are able to buy and listen to versions with the uncensored lyrics. So I can't really see how there is an issue of censorship.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
So what censorship are you okay with? Where should it start a7nd end?PaddyP17 said:It is ridiculous it's a news story. But I did see a Tweet earlier from a non-straight man that said [paraphrasing] "I'm not bothered by the word, or the song, but I am bothered by the likes of Fox and legion other straight people getting angry at their inability to listen to and sing a slur in a song".
That sums it up. Storm in a teacup but if you're upset by this cEnSOrShIp, give your head a good old wobble.
Serious question as there are loads of offensive words and attitudes in art and literature and I'm curious how they are going to be policed in an objective manner?
If they are going to ban anything it should be Radio 1 for being shite.6 -
It's true, but doesn't mean we should broadcast porn on daytime tv.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Kids listen to explicit lyrics in songs all the times and watch porn on their phones so changing the words to a Pogues song to protect them seems a bit futile.Addickhead86 said:
But watershed on broadcast tv/radio isn't really censorship is it? If a rap song with explicit epithets was aired on daytime radio uncensored there would be uproar. We have these rules to prevent children from being exposed to content they aren't necessarily equipped to process yet. That's why we accept these conditions, surely? Consenting adults are able to buy and listen to versions with the uncensored lyrics. So I can't really see how there is an issue of censorship.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
So what censorship are you okay with? Where should it start a7nd end?PaddyP17 said:It is ridiculous it's a news story. But I did see a Tweet earlier from a non-straight man that said [paraphrasing] "I'm not bothered by the word, or the song, but I am bothered by the likes of Fox and legion other straight people getting angry at their inability to listen to and sing a slur in a song".
That sums it up. Storm in a teacup but if you're upset by this cEnSOrShIp, give your head a good old wobble.
Serious question as there are loads of offensive words and attitudes in art and literature and I'm curious how they are going to be policed in an objective manner?
If they are going to ban anything it should be Radio 1 for being shite.
I'm actually from a fairly liberal position that it's fine for kids to be exposed to mature content in music, literature and film/tv so long as they have the context to understand it.
But I recognise a lot of people don't want that for their kids so I can accept a clunky broad brush limitation on public broadcast.2
