Freedom of speech does not include freedom to use racial epithets.
Imagine someone was using the word 'coon' to refer to black people, instead of 'chinky' to refer to Chinese people?
Actually - you know what? Fuck it, I give up. Its literally intolerable to even have this discussion. It would have been intolerable 20 fucking years ago.
Indeed mate, the F-word is quite offensive too, as is : -
All tories are evil scum, I wish all tories were dead, All brexiters are scum. All brexiters are knuckle draggers etc, etc etc..zzzzz
But one rule for them and another rule for others.
Point me to where I have said anything resembling this. Go on. I dare you. Double dare you.
So you clearly think the above words and phrases are acceptable as you haven't agreed, says it all...and who says i was talking about you, don't flatter yourself...You have been added to the ignore list.
paddy unless your are a referee too I assure you I will have more abuse thrown at me in a week than you in a month. I know yours will be racist and I don’t condone that You probably won’t agree and you will think I’m racist but I telling you Its true. Abuse is abuse and not nice no matter what you are like fat thin ginger black white
I won’t use the word again on here but people want a explanation I’ve tried to give.
But can now someone explain to me how there is so much foul and abusive language on the tele.
When my kids well not kids there all in there 20s put things like gordie shore love island and big brother on I have to leave the room all it is is bitch slagging and abusing each other I find it embarrassing that this is entertainment gordan Ramsey comes on just rants raves and abuses people. How has no one not turned round and punched him. These get paid thousand for this why ?
Really I don’t watch much tele because there’s nothing worth watching now days I watch football news music. Then films on Netflix but I must say I find it disturbing that some films now have to show meaningless violence when some one gets shot or has there head cut off do we really need to show it in slow motion with brains flying out. Is there really any need to show this.
One final point how is racism linked to one.political party why is jeramy coaban suspended from the Labour Party think it’s because his racist.
It's understandable to find the nuances in what is or isn't acceptable confusing. But in a senior position it is your job to know these things. And if anyone, anyone, in 202 thinks that being gay is a 'lifestyle choice' then we have a long way to go.
If only he could have had a dig at people with disabilities he could have got the jackpot.
People defending him, have a word with yourselves.
He's not some random bloke in the golf club bar.
He is, or was fortunately, the chair of the FA being questioned at a parliamentary select committe.
Not only has he made no effort to learn (being gay or straight isn't a "choice", Girls (sic), some of them like having balls kicked at them) he is meant to be setting an example.
He can't be excused, but some will try, with "he's 63". He a leader of a hugely high profile national organisation. He should be a role model. He should be doing training.
Good riddance.
And if people really want to know and aren't just sealioning. People of Colour/Black are fine, Coloured isn't.
It's not hard, it's not PC gone mad, it's just common courtesy.
I honestly have no idea what sealioning is.... But, you should take a look at yourself. I also am 63, and believe it or not do not expect anybody to excuse me because of my age. And for gods sake the USA have just voted the most powerful man in the world into a job at the age of 77. You obviously have a problem with anybody who isn’t your age, and doesn’t 100% share your exact opinion.
Indeed mate, the F-word is quite offensive too, as is : -
All tories are evil scum, I wish all tories were dead, All brexiters are scum. All brexiters are knuckle draggers etc, etc etc..zzzzz
But one rule for them and another rule for others.
Point me to where I have said anything resembling this. Go on. I dare you. Double dare you.
So you clearly think the above words and phrases are acceptable as you haven't agreed, says it all...and who says i was talking about you, don't flatter yourself...You have been added to the ignore list.
Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from repercussions of that speech. I am a Chinese man telling someone to stop using a term that a couple of times a month is used to racially abuse me. I am telling them to stop using it in any context.
This is not a difficult concept to grasp.
Not difficult for you because it offends you.
my mum banned swearing from our house as she gets very offended by the slightest rude word but rude words are acceptable for some & no one demands people stop using them on here because some are offended.
Abuse you get in the street is disgusting & the people doing it can & should be held to account as that is the law & what is right , the way the word is used is the problem for me & no words should be used to abuse someone but this is in the mans own home & not said maliciously in any way, like the N word in rap songs is ok but then a white man shouting the same word to a black man is not ok , for me it’s in the way the words are used.
Do we live in a world where we need a list of words we are allowed to use on here & who decides what is offensive?
Sorry think I put don’t condone it that’s wrong ain’t it early in morning I agree you shouldn’t be subject to racist remarks and I would definitely not make a racist remark to someone personally
Should freedom of speech include (when there isn't one) shouting 'fire!' in a crowded darkened theatre?
No m8 , people should consider their words & actions impact on others before saying them but if a man wants to shout fire in his own living room then that’s fine with me or do we ban the word fire ?
The price for freedom of speech is that we assume responsibility for what we say and how it affects those around us. We're agreeing that rather than have the state or another body regulate our speech, we will take on that work ourselves.
But I think there are a lot of people who treat freedom of speech like a card you wave that overrules any criticism of what you have said. It ain't that.
I’ll be accused of being sexist now but back in the day women hardly swore compared to men now I’d say women are nearly on a par with men I don’t like my daughter swearing as much as if my boys do. . Which again is probably sexiest my boys are forever getting moody on Xbox and swearing at it yet I’ll probably pull my daughter up more if she swears than my boys. Which I admit is probably unfair and she’s right when she pulls me up on it. still see know one has answered my question of why we need so much foul and abusive language on tele or violence in films
Finally some sort of comment about swearing bit like a school boy sniggering at back of class so explain to me why the c word Is more offensive than any other swear word because you can see on here people will not write the word cunt give me an answer to why this is more offensive.
It’s a word we don’t really need to add in any sentence. So why is it even a word what is it’s use? Danny Dyer loves to say it does it really make him look tough or something
Finally some sort of comment about swearing bit like a school boy sniggering at back of class so explain to me why the c word Is more offensive than any other swear word because you can see on here people will not write the word cunt give me an answer to why this is more offensive.
It’s a word we don’t really need to add in any sentence. So why is it even a word what is it’s use? Danny Dyer loves to say it does it really make him look tough or something
Oh, I have no problem with using the word 'cunt'.
My message was more along the lines of 'stop being a cunt'.
You've been asked to not use a specific word that has historic offensive and nasty connotations. You've also been told the reason why. That should be enough for you to cease and desist. Instead, you double down and give more weight to your upbringing, and the justification for using such terms, as opposed to listening to the vast majority on this thread who are telling you that you're firmly in the wrong.
That’s not a answer that just being abusive give me a sentence where we need to say it.
Do you feel hard now you’ve called me that millwall boy do you turn round and tell your fellow fans to stop being abusive or racist because there’s not a worse ground in the country for it than yours. Do you stand up and tell them hard man do ya
Racist language and terms are associated with oppression of certain groups. Groups who are not deserving because of the accident of their birth. That goes for oppression of women too. I don't know if the 'c' word is part of that oppression, but it is used in a more nasty way than 'prick' for example, and yet it is a reference to the private parts of a woman which are certainly not nasty. I admit to using the 'c' word, but although it isn't much of an excuse it gets used because it has an impact about how much antipathy I feel, or how bad I feel the recipient is. Describing Hitler as a wanker for example does not seem to cut it. Organically perhaps the language needs to grow a word as an alternative to the 'c' word that is equally impactful. I understand that back in Shakespeare's time the word 'naughty' was a shocker.
That’s not a answer that just being abusive give me a sentence where we need to say it.
Do you feel hard now you’ve called me that millwall boy do you turn round and tell your fellow fans to stop being abusive or racist because there’s not a worse ground in the country for it than yours. Do you stand up and tell them hard man do ya
I reiterate, stop being a cunt. It's not about being 'hard'. It's about being 'decent'.
Ah, the old homogeneous grouping of thousands of people as a poor way of defending your position.
Seriously, listen to people when they say that the word you're using is offensive and request you stop. By not doing so you're flying in the face of common decency. Or are you trying to appear 'hard'?
i was playing football last week - centre mid - 2 of us up against the other 2 centre mids - in the heat of the moment when trying to communicate with my co midfielder i said pick up the dark fella - i thought at the time have i said something wrong - i genuinely thought should i have said dark, black, coloured... I felt dark was 'softer' than saying black but god knows really. The other player had zero problem with it because he was a sensible chap and knew there was zero racist intent - there is a massive difference between using certain language and being racist - tbh I've got no views whatsoever on greg whatisname and can see how he is probably not the right bloke in this day and age but jesus christ, when is this treading on eggshells and denying common sense going to be put in check - its not about what people think, its all about saying accepted stuff = a load of bollox.
Exactly the sort of complacent, careless fuckwittery that Clarke is guilty of. Why not "you pick up the number 8, I'll get number 10"? The fact you see this bloke and the colour of his face is the thing you settle on as your reference point damns you. Refusing to comprehend the issue, doubles down on the offense. We can't be "colourblind", insofar as we see the fact of his colour. If we're not racist we choose to act colourblind. It's a choice, pure and simple. Any trouble experienced in avoiding certain language or assumptions is the result of deep seated, unchallenged bigotry. You can change your behaviour, if you're sincere, in no time it becomes 2nd nature, you can overcome your conditioning, it's a choice. I hear bleating about people's age "it was different when I was growing up" that's hollow complacent appeasement for bigotry. I was exposed to all that same conditioning - the street I grew up on had one non-white household in 70; 6 years in primary school (in the 70's) -1 black girl the whole time I was there; 7 years in secondary school maybe 2 dozen non-white boys in the 1500 or so that passed through - active hostility was almost unheard of but all the racist tropes, generalisations, language were common parlance. I just don't repeat it, I can't remember when I did - I must have done cos 'back then' it would not have been challenged, but no more. "certain language" is racist. This is uncomfortable reading, I'm sure, but you'll get no apology from me. Any shrugging it off, 'oh it was a slip of the tongue', appeasement or equivocation leaves room for the bigotry to persist, oxygen for it to thrive.
agreed with your hitler comment but does the same not apply to jeramy Corbyn for what or what he hasn’t done for the Jewish community obviously not killing thousands but his racist
Comments
Imagine someone was using the word 'coon' to refer to black people, instead of 'chinky' to refer to Chinese people?
Actually - you know what? Fuck it, I give up. Its literally intolerable to even have this discussion. It would have been intolerable 20 fucking years ago.
gordan Ramsey comes on just rants raves and abuses people. How has no one not turned round and punched him. These get paid thousand for this why ?
Wear that badge with pride, Paddy.
my mum banned swearing from our house as she gets very offended by the slightest rude word but rude words are acceptable for some & no one demands people stop using them on here because some are offended.
Do we live in a world where we need a list of words we are allowed to use on here & who decides what is offensive?
But I think there are a lot of people who treat freedom of speech like a card you wave that overrules any criticism of what you have said. It ain't that.
still see know one has answered my question of why we need so much foul and abusive language on tele or violence in films
My life.
My message was more along the lines of 'stop being a cunt'.
You've been asked to not use a specific word that has historic offensive and nasty connotations. You've also been told the reason why. That should be enough for you to cease and desist. Instead, you double down and give more weight to your upbringing, and the justification for using such terms, as opposed to listening to the vast majority on this thread who are telling you that you're firmly in the wrong.
Millwall 1 Charlton 0
Groups who are not deserving because of the accident of their birth.
That goes for oppression of women too.
I don't know if the 'c' word is part of that oppression, but it is used in a more nasty way than 'prick' for example, and yet it is a reference to the private parts of a woman which are certainly not nasty.
I admit to using the 'c' word, but although it isn't much of an excuse it gets used because it has an impact about how much antipathy I feel, or how bad I feel the recipient is.
Describing Hitler as a wanker for example does not seem to cut it.
Organically perhaps the language needs to grow a word as an alternative to the 'c' word that is equally impactful.
I understand that back in Shakespeare's time the word 'naughty' was a shocker.
Ah, the old homogeneous grouping of thousands of people as a poor way of defending your position.
Seriously, listen to people when they say that the word you're using is offensive and request you stop. By not doing so you're flying in the face of common decency. Or are you trying to appear 'hard'?
It's really not a good look.
Why not "you pick up the number 8, I'll get number 10"?
The fact you see this bloke and the colour of his face is the thing you settle on as your reference point damns you.
Refusing to comprehend the issue, doubles down on the offense.
We can't be "colourblind", insofar as we see the fact of his colour. If we're not racist we choose to act colourblind. It's a choice, pure and simple. Any trouble experienced in avoiding certain language or assumptions is the result of deep seated, unchallenged bigotry. You can change your behaviour, if you're sincere, in no time it becomes 2nd nature, you can overcome your conditioning, it's a choice.
I hear bleating about people's age "it was different when I was growing up" that's hollow complacent appeasement for bigotry. I was exposed to all that same conditioning - the street I grew up on had one non-white household in 70; 6 years in primary school (in the 70's) -1 black girl the whole time I was there; 7 years in secondary school maybe 2 dozen non-white boys in the 1500 or so that passed through - active hostility was almost unheard of but all the racist tropes, generalisations, language were common parlance. I just don't repeat it, I can't remember when I did - I must have done cos 'back then' it would not have been challenged, but no more.
"certain language" is racist.
This is uncomfortable reading, I'm sure, but you'll get no apology from me.
Any shrugging it off, 'oh it was a slip of the tongue', appeasement or equivocation leaves room for the bigotry to persist, oxygen for it to thrive.