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HMRC

Got a letter this morning from Advantis debt collection agency acting for HMRC. It didn't specify what the money owed was for but checking our records I saw it was for Corporation Tax due in February, which we paid. I rang agency and gave them details and contacted HMRC via online chat. They confirmed the payment was made and they would resolve by 16 November (why can't they resolve now) and didn't apologise. I asked the operator whether their error could affect our company's credit waiting, she said she wasn't sure but wouldn't think so!

Mistakes happen, but what sort of scum goes direct to a debt collection agency without contacting us first? I spoke to our accountant and he told me he has seen this before. Anybody else had dealings with this joke of an organisation?
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Comments

  • They hounded me for 2 years for underpaid taxes. Suggested I fill in self assessment forms (even though I was PAYE) and then fined me for late submission even though they were for previous years and were only just sent to me.

    I had correspondence from 8 different tax offices about it and when I phoned each one, none were able to help.

    I eventually sent my arguments (which amounted to about 40 pages including copies of documents they had sent me) to each of the 8 offices and asked them to nominate one to deal with my complaint.

    Eventually, they did, and they found in my favour and said I didn't owe the tax they claimed.

    Even that was wrong because I did owe the tax but I got away with it because they hadn't followed their own guidelines (which I quoted to them).

    Like you say, a joke of an organisation who don't know what they are doing.
  • Got a letter this morning from Advantis debt collection agency acting for HMRC. It didn't specify what the money owed was for but checking our records I saw it was for Corporation Tax due in February, which we paid. I rang agency and gave them details and contacted HMRC via online chat. They confirmed the payment was made and they would resolve by 16 November (why can't they resolve now) and didn't apologise. I asked the operator whether their error could affect our company's credit waiting, she said she wasn't sure but wouldn't think so!

    Mistakes happen, but what sort of scum goes direct to a debt collection agency without contacting us first? I spoke to our accountant and he told me he has seen this before. Anybody else had dealings with this joke of an organisation?
    Sorry to hear that.

    The corporation tax section of HMRC are absolute scum as Angela Rayner MP might say.

    Compare and contrast what you are suffering with their attitude to corporation tax refunds. It takes them months to process them and invariably to get the money you have to repeatedly write or even lodge a complaint for them to finally part with the money companies are rightfully and lawfully entitled to.

    It is my personal belief that they 'try it on' with refunds and play on the lack of knowledge of non finance specialist company directors and sometimes their accountants who act as agents. Large firms of accountants have a high staff turnover and it is easy for knowledge of a potential refund to get 'lost' when there is no continuity.

    And yes, as you say, the ignorant c**** NEVER apologise!
  • I thought it was a scam letter as I knew we always pay our tax due on time and it only had our company name, no other details on it. Also I had no letters from HMRC saying corporation tax was outstanding. Fortunately I checked the amount with my accounts and could see it was a genuine figure even though we had paid it within the correct time period. 
  • It is extraordinarily rare for debt collection procedures to be commenced without previous correspondence seeking recovery of outstanding amounts.  That said HMRC is under no obligation to issue reminders or chase late paid tax, they're absolutely within their rights to send the boys round the day after any tax is late.  CT is always due a fixed period after the trading period to which it relates.  HMRC only know how much is due when the company tells HMRC via the obligatory form.  IF the recovered amount matches what had been due then the CT600 had been submitted.
    Are you sure HMRC has the correct correspondence address for your company?  Just cos a recovery agent found the right address doesn't mean HMRC has ever been formally told.  Their records don't update themselves and it ain't HMRC's responsibility to find out.
    The amount had been paid but had it been paid under precisely the correct reference?  Any mismatch in the payment reference and they'll receive the funds with no way of knowing how it is to be allocated.  Again it is the taxpayer's sole responsibility to ensure all that is correct.
    When these apparent anomalies crop up they are almost always resolved with a phone call.  None of it is personal, almost the entire process is automated with zero human involvement.  ALL the data fed into the system comes from the taxpayer.
    Sounds like you'd benefit from a better accountant :smiley:  
  • It is extraordinarily rare for debt collection procedures to be commenced without previous correspondence seeking recovery of outstanding amounts.  That said HMRC is under no obligation to issue reminders or chase late paid tax, they're absolutely within their rights to send the boys round the day after any tax is late.  CT is always due a fixed period after the trading period to which it relates.  HMRC only know how much is due when the company tells HMRC via the obligatory form.  IF the recovered amount matches what had been due then the CT600 had been submitted.
    Are you sure HMRC has the correct correspondence address for your company?  Just cos a recovery agent found the right address doesn't mean HMRC has ever been formally told.  Their records don't update themselves and it ain't HMRC's responsibility to find out.
    The amount had been paid but had it been paid under precisely the correct reference?  Any mismatch in the payment reference and they'll receive the funds with no way of knowing how it is to be allocated.  Again it is the taxpayer's sole responsibility to ensure all that is correct.
    When these apparent anomalies crop up they are almost always resolved with a phone call.  None of it is personal, almost the entire process is automated with zero human involvement.  ALL the data fed into the system comes from the taxpayer.
    Sounds like you'd benefit from a better accountant :smiley:  
    It was a HMRC error and before I could speak to the operator I had to give all of our details including business address. It is personal when you are dealing with a person and they don't apologise. It may be due to Covid, but they didn't send any correspondence to us. Had they done so, we would have resolved on the spot. 
  • Happend to me about 10 years ago over money that I had paid too.

    Long story short, I had to fill in a form and send it back in a pre addressed envelope. About a year later they contacted me about the money to which I replied that I sent the form off a year previous only to be met with - "We have lost it internally so can you fill in another one?" - Of course i declined!

    On a side note, the pre printed envelope they sent had the wrong post code printed on it!!
  • All I can say on this is that they are absolutely hopeless, convinced half of them are clueless.

    They do try bully boy tactics a lot of the time.

    However they are shit scared of decent accountants and the threat of legal action (if it comes to that).
  • It is extraordinarily rare for debt collection procedures to be commenced without previous correspondence seeking recovery of outstanding amounts.  That said HMRC is under no obligation to issue reminders or chase late paid tax, they're absolutely within their rights to send the boys round the day after any tax is late.  CT is always due a fixed period after the trading period to which it relates.  HMRC only know how much is due when the company tells HMRC via the obligatory form.  IF the recovered amount matches what had been due then the CT600 had been submitted.
    Are you sure HMRC has the correct correspondence address for your company?  Just cos a recovery agent found the right address doesn't mean HMRC has ever been formally told.  Their records don't update themselves and it ain't HMRC's responsibility to find out.
    The amount had been paid but had it been paid under precisely the correct reference?  Any mismatch in the payment reference and they'll receive the funds with no way of knowing how it is to be allocated.  Again it is the taxpayer's sole responsibility to ensure all that is correct.
    When these apparent anomalies crop up they are almost always resolved with a phone call.  None of it is personal, almost the entire process is automated with zero human involvement.  ALL the data fed into the system comes from the taxpayer.
    Sounds like you'd benefit from a better accountant :smiley:  
    Do you work for HMRC? I ask because you are suggesting I blame our accountant when he didn't do anything wrong. Maybe I should blame those that made the error. It isn't the error, these things happen. It is that they didn't correspond and were unapologetic. It isn't nice getting a debt collection letter and I have to worry now that I still haven't heard the last of it.
  • I've run my own contracting company as a limited company since 2001.  Apart from everything being incredibly slow - not had any real problems up until they merged the tax and customs and excise together...that was a disaster as systems didn't work properly and finding out who to contact was almost impossible.  Has taken years to improve.
  • advantis look after a lot of big companies debt collection. Sounds like unsurprisingly HMRC have messed up, but all to common unfortunately, I’m sure they’ll sort it now it’s been raised with them. 
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  • Advantis were actually pretty good and helpful. 
  • This is standard practice in France, well it is for social charges anyway.

    The industry my Mrs works in means that her 2nd and 3rd quarter charges are usually a lot more than the 1st and 4th, but last year the 3rd was even more higher than normal and so I only paid half of the 24.8% social charges online and waited for the reminder to come in the post, to then take a copy and send a cheque to them for the balance. I was happy doing this as I'd done it a couple of times in the past, and it was never a problem. Anyway, we waited for the reminder and nothing come. One morning , a couple of weeks later, I found a hand delivered calling card from a bailiff in our post box saying to call them urgently. I went straight to the computer, logged on to their website followed the instructions and paid the remaining balance by card, plus a €45 odd fee. A few minutes later, I checked Mrs emails and they sent confirmation to say that it was sorted. A little bit pissed off as it was escalated so quickly without any reminder, but happy it had been paid.

    Another couple of days later  when checking our bank, I was horrified to see €9922.22 had been taken so once I picked my arsehole up off the floor, I jumped in the motor and made the 45 minute journey down to the bailiff office to see what the hell was going on. Got there and the girl said that the cheque I paid them had bounced, once I explained that I'd paid by card online and showed her the confirmation, she went off and made a phone call and come back saying it had been returned, but would take a couple of days. The following week (about 7 days later), sure enough, the money showed up. Then a couple of weeks after that, there was a charge of over €240 (cant remember exactly) taken out with same description. When I questioned this with the bank this time, they said it was the bailiffs fee.

    So, not only do they have the power to confiscate your money here, they even take their fee without issuing a bill or even telling you. All on behalf of the state 
  • It sounds like HMRC have some catching up to do! I'm sure they will get there.
  • The unofficial HMRC scammers are trying another way to get you, this time a very threatening phone call, reference a fraud case against you, apparently if you don’t press 1 you will be arrested immediately, my call was from a mobile phone which didn’t add authenticity to the call. Mans voice very authoritative and for a second had me wondering, then laughing. 
  • Best money I’ve ever spent is getting an accountant, even a cheap one that is completely straight edged - you don’t have to talk to any of the bastards at hmrc. Basically the only time as a grown man I’ve come off the phone and burst into tears was on a phone call to them. Twats. Pay your taxes folks, but also try and fuck them (legally) every chance you can. 
    ....unless you are Amazon (or similar) of course.
  • edited January 11
    Best money I’ve ever spent is getting an accountant, even a cheap one that is completely straight edged - you don’t have to talk to any of the bastards at hmrc. Basically the only time as a grown man I’ve come off the phone and burst into tears was on a phone call to them. Twats. Pay your taxes folks, but also try and fuck them (legally) every chance you can. 
    ....unless you are Amazon (or similar) of course.
    Another reason to fuck hmrc, once they go after Amazon and Facebook for the billions they owe I’ll be marginally ok with them treating me like a piece of shit at one of my lowest moments over a couple of k
  • Best money I’ve ever spent is getting an accountant, even a cheap one that is completely straight edged - you don’t have to talk to any of the bastards at hmrc. Basically the only time as a grown man I’ve come off the phone and burst into tears was on a phone call to them. Twats. Pay your taxes folks, but also try and fuck them (legally) every chance you can. 
    ....unless you are Amazon (or similar) of course.
    Another reason to fuck hmrc, once they go after Amazon and Facebook for the billions they owe I’ll be marginally ok with them treating me like a piece of shit at one of my lowest moments over a couple of k
    I find it amazing that they can never find the billions in tax these companies hide yet HMRC can always find the £5 missing in my tax return!
  • Won't have a word said against them.

    Got a cheque for £250 this morning   o:)
  • cafc999 said:
    Best money I’ve ever spent is getting an accountant, even a cheap one that is completely straight edged - you don’t have to talk to any of the bastards at hmrc. Basically the only time as a grown man I’ve come off the phone and burst into tears was on a phone call to them. Twats. Pay your taxes folks, but also try and fuck them (legally) every chance you can. 
    ....unless you are Amazon (or similar) of course.
    Another reason to fuck hmrc, once they go after Amazon and Facebook for the billions they owe I’ll be marginally ok with them treating me like a piece of shit at one of my lowest moments over a couple of k
    I find it amazing that they can never find the billions in tax these companies hide yet HMRC can always find the £5 missing in my tax return!
    I actually underpaid by a penny on my last tax payment, they sent a letter and asked for it on my next payment, wonder how much that cost. I will pay it as I owe it. Also totally agree re the accountant, best money I pay out each year.
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  • they are utter fuckwits to a man.  I have nothing but trouble with them.  I’ve been PAYE for 4 years after my business went tits up and it’s taken me 6 months of letters from various offices, putting me on shit tax codes, telling me I owe them thousands until the penny fucking dropped that I am skint and a fully paid up citizen who owes them nothing. The worst thing I find is you don’t have true point of contact or office you use. It’s chaos. And half of the phone calls I made were never even logged.

    if it wasn’t for all the times I’ve had one over on them over the years I’d be quite upset.
  • I agree that an accountant softens the experience. 
  • Best money I’ve ever spent is getting an accountant, even a cheap one that is completely straight edged - you don’t have to talk to any of the bastards at hmrc. Basically the only time as a grown man I’ve come off the phone and burst into tears was on a phone call to them. Twats. Pay your taxes folks, but also try and fuck them (legally) every chance you can. 
    ....unless you are Amazon (or similar) of course.
    Another reason to fuck hmrc, once they go after Amazon and Facebook for the billions they owe I’ll be marginally ok with them treating me like a piece of shit at one of my lowest moments over a couple of k
    Are they also just trying to "fuck them (legally) every chance" they can?




  • Best money I’ve ever spent is getting an accountant, even a cheap one that is completely straight edged - you don’t have to talk to any of the bastards at hmrc. Basically the only time as a grown man I’ve come off the phone and burst into tears was on a phone call to them. Twats. Pay your taxes folks, but also try and fuck them (legally) every chance you can. 
    ....unless you are Amazon (or similar) of course.
    Another reason to fuck hmrc, once they go after Amazon and Facebook for the billions they owe I’ll be marginally ok with them treating me like a piece of shit at one of my lowest moments over a couple of k
    Are they also just trying to "fuck them (legally) every chance" they can?




    i dont think a billion odd quid should be seen as a legal fuck, sounds like a bloody paedo ring.
  • And the money people pay them is for public use too. 
  • Addickted said:
    Won't have a word said against them.

    Got a cheque for £250 this morning   o:)

    They owed you £750 though  :#
  • Stig said:
    Best money I’ve ever spent is getting an accountant, even a cheap one that is completely straight edged - you don’t have to talk to any of the bastards at hmrc. Basically the only time as a grown man I’ve come off the phone and burst into tears was on a phone call to them. Twats. Pay your taxes folks, but also try and fuck them (legally) every chance you can. 
    ....unless you are Amazon (or similar) of course.
    Another reason to fuck hmrc, once they go after Amazon and Facebook for the billions they owe I’ll be marginally ok with them treating me like a piece of shit at one of my lowest moments over a couple of k
    You do realise that the money they collect is for public use and not for their own benefit, don't you?
    I think you may have missed the point.

    I remember when I owed several thousands in tax and didn't have the funds to pay them all in one go . I managed to get hold of the help line number and despite asking them to set up a repayment plan all I got told, and in no uncertain terms was that I had to pay up staright away! So much for for the help eh?
  • cafc999 said:
    Stig said:
    Best money I’ve ever spent is getting an accountant, even a cheap one that is completely straight edged - you don’t have to talk to any of the bastards at hmrc. Basically the only time as a grown man I’ve come off the phone and burst into tears was on a phone call to them. Twats. Pay your taxes folks, but also try and fuck them (legally) every chance you can. 
    ....unless you are Amazon (or similar) of course.
    Another reason to fuck hmrc, once they go after Amazon and Facebook for the billions they owe I’ll be marginally ok with them treating me like a piece of shit at one of my lowest moments over a couple of k
    You do realise that the money they collect is for public use and not for their own benefit, don't you?
    I think you may have missed the point.

    I remember when I owed several thousands in tax and didn't have the funds to pay them all in one go . I managed to get hold of the help line number and despite asking them to set up a repayment plan all I got told, and in no uncertain terms was that I had to pay up staright away! So much for for the help eh?
    Money you would never have had in your account in the first place if you were PAYE...
  • Stig said:
    Best money I’ve ever spent is getting an accountant, even a cheap one that is completely straight edged - you don’t have to talk to any of the bastards at hmrc. Basically the only time as a grown man I’ve come off the phone and burst into tears was on a phone call to them. Twats. Pay your taxes folks, but also try and fuck them (legally) every chance you can. 
    ....unless you are Amazon (or similar) of course.
    Another reason to fuck hmrc, once they go after Amazon and Facebook for the billions they owe I’ll be marginally ok with them treating me like a piece of shit at one of my lowest moments over a couple of k
    You do realise that the money they collect is for public use and not for their own benefit, don't you?
    straw man, you do realise donald trump is trying to make america great again, dont you? Ergo if you disagree with trump you're disagreeing with making america great hurr hurr i'm so clever.
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