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Omar Bogle - gone to Newport (p31)

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  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,020
    golfaddick said:
    hudson-son-son said:
    BR7_addick said:
    Football fans in 2020:
    Just Wikipedia’d this striker Dennis Bergkamp some older football fans kept banging on about, terrible scoring record, dunno what all the fuss was about.

    In this extreme hypothetical, the point is that we don't have an Ian Wright, Anelka or Thierry Henry to score goals next to him, or Pires/Ljungberg scoring many goals from midfield. Our main striker is going to have to be a pure goalscorer. 

    Would you back any of our non strikers other than Maddison to get more than 10?

    I actually think Bogle is a decent signing on a free, I just think it now looks ridiculous people being happy that Bonne was going thinking we were going to get 2 better options, this is the reality of where we are at. Bogle would be a good compliment to a Bonne, but his past history suggests we can't be hanging our hopes on him, Aneke or Washington scoring many goals

    He looks to have something about him and think he can add to our squad, but it seems like an U21 loan is going to have to be our top scorer if we are going to be successful this year with the wage cap restraints now, and that is a huge gamble
    No U21 loanee striker will score us 20 goals.......they'll be lucky to get half that amount. 

    About the only player to do that over the past 20 years is......Defoe, when he went on loan to Bournemouth. 

    *************
    How many players have scored 20 plus a season since 2000?
  • soapboxsam
    soapboxsam Posts: 23,229
    Addick Addict said:
    soapboxsam said:
    Matt Tees and Clive Mendonca the best things to every come out of Grimsby.

    NO fish puns needed.
    Charlie Wright signed for us from Grimsby and became a bit of a legend 

    Cheers AA,
    I forgot Charlie came from Grimsby.
    I knew Rodney Green did but his career never took off at the valley 
  • sillav nitram
    sillav nitram Posts: 10,157
    soapboxsam said:
    Matt Tees and Clive Mendonca the best things to every come out of Grimsby.

    NO fish puns needed.
    What a load of ol’ cods roe!

    Agree by the way, loved Matt Tees.
  • AndyG
    AndyG Posts: 5,905
    Although there are still questions that still need answering in terms of strikers but I think we can be really happy so far. I dont think there will be many better midfield options in league 1 than we now have. Defence is looking far better than a week ago.

    Look where we were 3 weeks ago. Facing admin and court cases involving crooks. It is an amazing turnaround imo and I'm confident we wont lose many games this season already with hopefully another few players to come in before next week
  • Crusty54
    Crusty54 Posts: 3,225
    soapboxsam said:
    Addick Addict said:
    soapboxsam said:
    Matt Tees and Clive Mendonca the best things to every come out of Grimsby.

    NO fish puns needed.
    Charlie Wright signed for us from Grimsby and became a bit of a legend 

    Cheers AA,
    I forgot Charlie came from Grimsby.
    I knew Rodney Green did but his career never took off at the valley 
    Matt Tees and Rodney Green were bought together and started well. At corners they started at the edge of the box and ran towards the ball. Very hard to defend against.

    Green got injured and never really recovered.
  • cafcdave123
    cafcdave123 Posts: 11,491
    edited October 2020
    Valleysarr said:
    Hands up who had heard of him before? 
    When i was told we’d signed him, I honestly couldn’t have told you a single thing about him
  • BR7_addick
    BR7_addick Posts: 10,210
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    BR7_addick said:
    Football fans in 2020:
    Just Wikipedia’d this striker Dennis Bergkamp some older football fans kept banging on about, terrible scoring record, dunno what all the fuss was about.
    I'm 54, he was the best footballer I have ever seen live.
    Well he only scored like 1 in 5 i for one am very underwhelmed..
  • 2121
    2121 Posts: 1,184
    Id like to see johnny run off the flick ons of aneke etc... he's got good pace could definitely sneak in behind 
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    It is true, there are only a few clubs you could see Bogle signing for at our level without too much suprise. Us, Pompey (well he already has), Sunderland, Ipswich, Wigan, Hull and Posh. Maybe one or two others, but this suggests he is a high end League One player.
  • pettgra
    pettgra Posts: 1,572
    Lets hope it is not a case of Omar Gawd. I am sure it will not be as SG hardly puts a foot wrong.
    SG alongside LB are probably the best acquisitions we have made in recent times.
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  • RodneyCharltonTrotta
    RodneyCharltonTrotta Posts: 14,827
    cafcdave123 said:
    Valleysarr said:
    Hands up who had heard of him before? 
    When i was told we’d signed him, I honestly couldn’t have told you a single thing about him

    Me too.  To be fair though I don't recognise half the names in the England team these days
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    I know when he joined Pompey I thought he might be a good signing for them but he wasn't as it turned out! But there can be a lot of reasons for that.
  • charltonbob
    charltonbob Posts: 8,254
    edited October 2020
    king addick said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    I think there's a huge difference between between underwhelmed at us signing him because there's better out there, or just underwhelmed because you can't see him firing us up. I'm in the second group and I think 90% of those not jumping for joy will be the same. Unfortunately between the takeover coming late and the wage cap our options were limited and I don't think we could have done much better.

    Having said that, I don't think it's fair to criticise the posters who are not massively delighted. In fact, I think it's fair to say we wouldn't have been signing Bogle had we got Schwartz over the line, so Bows and Gallen weren't desperate to sign him. He gives us options, either as direct competition for Aneke or the two of them together. My fear is that Bowyer goes with the diamond which lacks width, and as such the crosses won't come in which you would think would suit Bogle. 
    Bowyer wanted 2 strikers after Bonne went so he may have wanted both.

    The issue with people not being delighted is that he hasn't even kicked a ball yet. His record shows he can score goals, he needs the service to do so.

    Bonnes record showed he scored 11 goals in the Championship last season but people weren't happy with that. Bogles record shows that he scored 14 goals in 71 games over 3 years so it doesn't suggest to me that he will get the goals that we need. He may well do a job in the penalty area that creates a chance for someone else. I just wonder who that someone else will be. The embargo & wage cap has made things very very difficult for us to bring in the quality we need for promotion.
  • BalladMan
    BalladMan Posts: 1,112
    KBslittlesis said:
    BalladMan said:
    Was also posted on the Summer Transfer thread, but his chant is quality (blur are my favourite band and my username is taken from one of their songs): 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5SR7gwBxEg


    Biggest shame is, on a 1 year deal, will we ever get to sing it to him......  :'(
    That’s a Blur song? 😳
    Tender, number 1 in 1999
  • charltonbob
    charltonbob Posts: 8,254
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    It is true, there are only a few clubs you could see Bogle signing for at our level without too much suprise. Us, Pompey (well he already has), Sunderland, Ipswich, Wigan, Hull and Posh. Maybe one or two others, but this suggests he is a high end League One player.
    He's not exactly played a lot of games at this level for any of the clubs he has played for & nothing about his record shows that he is in any way a high end League One player to me.
    2017Wigan Athletic14(3)
    2017–2020Cardiff City21(4)
    2018→ Peterborough United (loan)9(1)
    2018–2019→ Birmingham City (loan)15(1)
    2019→ Portsmouth (loan)12(4)
    2020→ ADO Den Haag (loan)5(1
  • DamoNorthStand
    DamoNorthStand Posts: 10,933
    2121 said:
    Id like to see johnny run off the flick ons of aneke etc... he's got good pace could definitely sneak in behind 
    Before turning towards the defenders behind him, drawing a free kick and pulling his hammy ;)
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,288
    charltonbob said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    It is true, there are only a few clubs you could see Bogle signing for at our level without too much suprise. Us, Pompey (well he already has), Sunderland, Ipswich, Wigan, Hull and Posh. Maybe one or two others, but this suggests he is a high end League One player.
    He's not exactly played a lot of games at this level for any of the clubs he has played for & nothing about his record shows that he is in any way a high end League One player to me.
    2017Wigan Athletic14(3)
    2017–2020Cardiff City21(4)
    2018→ Peterborough United (loan)9(1)
    2018–2019→ Birmingham City (loan)15(1)
    2019→ Portsmouth (loan)12(4)
    2020→ ADO Den Haag (loan)5(1
    I think the trouble with a lot of Strikers is they get signed to fit the team, is that what has happened in those instances?

    Its the one position where you almost need to setup in a way that suits the Strikers

    e.g. As Michael Appleton pointed out, he didnt understand why we were playing long balls to Washington and Bonne when neither are known for the prowess in the air - Same with playing either Washington or Bonne in the lone Striker role as we saw against Crewe and Sunderland...

    You'd hope though with Bogle being a bit like Aneke that those approaches will suit him a lot more and so if we're playing 4-3-3 you'd hope that Omar is the type who can flick the ball on for Doughty / Maddison / Washington to chase and put the cross back in for Bogle to then score from - Easier said than done of course!!
  • wmcf123
    wmcf123 Posts: 5,824
    ForeverAddickted said:
    charltonbob said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    It is true, there are only a few clubs you could see Bogle signing for at our level without too much suprise. Us, Pompey (well he already has), Sunderland, Ipswich, Wigan, Hull and Posh. Maybe one or two others, but this suggests he is a high end League One player.
    He's not exactly played a lot of games at this level for any of the clubs he has played for & nothing about his record shows that he is in any way a high end League One player to me.
    2017Wigan Athletic14(3)
    2017–2020Cardiff City21(4)
    2018→ Peterborough United (loan)9(1)
    2018–2019→ Birmingham City (loan)15(1)
    2019→ Portsmouth (loan)12(4)
    2020→ ADO Den Haag (loan)5(1
    I think the trouble with a lot of Strikers is they get signed to fit the team, is that what has happened in those instances?

    Its the one position where you almost need to setup in a way that suits the Strikers

    e.g. As Michael Appleton pointed out, he didnt understand why we were playing long balls to Washington and Bonne when neither are known for the prowess in the air - Same with playing either Washington or Bonne in the lone Striker role as we saw against Crewe and Sunderland...

    You'd hope though with Bogle being a bit like Aneke that those approaches will suit him a lot more and so if we're playing 4-3-3 you'd hope that Omar is the type who can flick the ball on for Doughty / Maddison / Washington to chase and put the cross back in for Bogle to then score from - Easier said than done of course!!
    If Bogle is a bit like Aneke, the Lewis Page treatment centre might need a rebrand 
  • soapboxsam
    soapboxsam Posts: 23,229
    Will Griggs hasn't set Sunderland on fire and he cost 4 million. The lad he replaced on Wearside was Josh Maja, who knew he was better than Sunderland: the Lewisham born lad despite being offered a new contract went to France and is now on a long contract at Bordeaux.

     
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    charltonbob said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    It is true, there are only a few clubs you could see Bogle signing for at our level without too much suprise. Us, Pompey (well he already has), Sunderland, Ipswich, Wigan, Hull and Posh. Maybe one or two others, but this suggests he is a high end League One player.
    He's not exactly played a lot of games at this level for any of the clubs he has played for & nothing about his record shows that he is in any way a high end League One player to me.
    2017Wigan Athletic14(3)
    2017–2020Cardiff City21(4)
    2018→ Peterborough United (loan)9(1)
    2018–2019→ Birmingham City (loan)15(1)
    2019→ Portsmouth (loan)12(4)
    2020→ ADO Den Haag (loan)5(1
    Warren Joyce of Wigan saw enough of him to buy him as a championship club.  Neil Warnock saw enough of him to pay nearly a million quid for him. 

    But I suppose they would have thought better of it if they had just read his Wikipedia page.  As opposed to trusting thier scouts and their own eyes.  3 different managers signed him in the championship, are they all wrong? 

    He has only played 21 games at this level, over to loan spells.  The rest of those games were in the championship. Yet you left out the almost 1 in 2 he scored for Grimsby. 
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  • mendonca
    mendonca Posts: 9,405
    Only so much analysis that can be done on past performance. Just wait and see now without any pre-prejudice.

    I thought Deon Burton was going to be trash when we signed him. Was impressed with him at Charlton. His previous loans were before joining us were League 1 clubs. McGennis did ok for us, but interestingly his goals to game ratio was the exact same as his previous club, Kilnmarnock. Only so much that can be read into Champion Manager like history.
  • LargeAddick
    LargeAddick Posts: 32,553
    In a live TV game a couple of seasons ago Bogle came on for whatever side it was and I thought oh right he could cause us problems here but it turns out I needn’t have worried. He was awful. Happy to give him a chance but just can’t see him scoring sufficient goals for us.
  • LargeAddick
    LargeAddick Posts: 32,553
    Ferryman said:
    People would be surprised if he signed for Accrington or Burton - but same budget as them so as good as we're likely to get.
    How much are their budgets then, out of interest?
  • LargeAddick
    LargeAddick Posts: 32,553
    Cafc43v3r said:
    charltonbob said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    It is true, there are only a few clubs you could see Bogle signing for at our level without too much suprise. Us, Pompey (well he already has), Sunderland, Ipswich, Wigan, Hull and Posh. Maybe one or two others, but this suggests he is a high end League One player.
    He's not exactly played a lot of games at this level for any of the clubs he has played for & nothing about his record shows that he is in any way a high end League One player to me.
    2017Wigan Athletic14(3)
    2017–2020Cardiff City21(4)
    2018→ Peterborough United (loan)9(1)
    2018–2019→ Birmingham City (loan)15(1)
    2019→ Portsmouth (loan)12(4)
    2020→ ADO Den Haag (loan)5(1
    Warren Joyce of Wigan saw enough of him to buy him as a championship club.  Neil Warnock saw enough of him to pay nearly a million quid for him. 

    But I suppose they would have thought better of it if they had just read his Wikipedia page.  As opposed to trusting thier scouts and their own eyes.  3 different managers signed him in the championship, are they all wrong? 

    He has only played 21 games at this level, over to loan spells.  The rest of those games were in the championship. Yet you left out the almost 1 in 2 he scored for Grimsby. 
    In the National League. Wasn’t that where Bonne came from via Orient. Bonne who now plays in the Championship and scored 11 goals there last season which Bogle has never done and never will do. Get rid of Bonne and sign Bogle and some fans (maybe not you) are happy. Weird.
  • Richard J
    Richard J Posts: 8,030
    I suspect he was on the original list. There was an article about him and Joel Lynch around the time of the Court Case saying they were ready to sign. 

    He passes the height test. Is left footed which is always useful. His four goals in twelve for Portsmouth is a good return for L1 especially when five of those appearances were off the bench.

    I see him as an alternative to Aneke in the same way as Ozzi was recruited to rotate with Williams  

    I have a good feeling about Omar. 
  • charltonbob
    charltonbob Posts: 8,254
    Cafc43v3r said:
    charltonbob said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    It is true, there are only a few clubs you could see Bogle signing for at our level without too much suprise. Us, Pompey (well he already has), Sunderland, Ipswich, Wigan, Hull and Posh. Maybe one or two others, but this suggests he is a high end League One player.
    He's not exactly played a lot of games at this level for any of the clubs he has played for & nothing about his record shows that he is in any way a high end League One player to me.
    2017Wigan Athletic14(3)
    2017–2020Cardiff City21(4)
    2018→ Peterborough United (loan)9(1)
    2018–2019→ Birmingham City (loan)15(1)
    2019→ Portsmouth (loan)12(4)
    2020→ ADO Den Haag (loan)5(1
    Warren Joyce of Wigan saw enough of him to buy him as a championship club.  Neil Warnock saw enough of him to pay nearly a million quid for him. 

    But I suppose they would have thought better of it if they had just read his Wikipedia page.  As opposed to trusting thier scouts and their own eyes.  3 different managers signed him in the championship, are they all wrong? 

    He has only played 21 games at this level, over to loan spells.  The rest of those games were in the championship. Yet you left out the almost 1 in 2 he scored for Grimsby. 
    Yes maybe he has been signed by championship level managers but he didn't play many games for them did he ? I left out the Grimsby goals because I believe the majority were scored in non league. If we should include his goals from the National league then we could also say that Bonne has a fantastic goal scoring record. 
  • king addick
    king addick Posts: 3,698
    Its so much more than just scoring goals. Players need to fit systems and form partnerships etc. He can bring other players in with his strength and knock downs from headers. 

    Bowyer can see how Bogle fits into his plans otherwise he wouldn't have signed him, he said they wouldn't panic buy and I dont think they have.

    Bonne scored 11 goals sure but when he was bad, he was really bad. 

    Just give the guy a chance.
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    charltonbob said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    charltonbob said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    It is true, there are only a few clubs you could see Bogle signing for at our level without too much suprise. Us, Pompey (well he already has), Sunderland, Ipswich, Wigan, Hull and Posh. Maybe one or two others, but this suggests he is a high end League One player.
    He's not exactly played a lot of games at this level for any of the clubs he has played for & nothing about his record shows that he is in any way a high end League One player to me.
    2017Wigan Athletic14(3)
    2017–2020Cardiff City21(4)
    2018→ Peterborough United (loan)9(1)
    2018–2019→ Birmingham City (loan)15(1)
    2019→ Portsmouth (loan)12(4)
    2020→ ADO Den Haag (loan)5(1
    Warren Joyce of Wigan saw enough of him to buy him as a championship club.  Neil Warnock saw enough of him to pay nearly a million quid for him. 

    But I suppose they would have thought better of it if they had just read his Wikipedia page.  As opposed to trusting thier scouts and their own eyes.  3 different managers signed him in the championship, are they all wrong? 

    He has only played 21 games at this level, over to loan spells.  The rest of those games were in the championship. Yet you left out the almost 1 in 2 he scored for Grimsby. 
    Yes maybe he has been signed by championship level managers but he didn't play many games for them did he ? I left out the Grimsby goals because I believe the majority were scored in non league. If we should include his goals from the National league then we could also say that Bonne has a fantastic goal scoring record. 
    There were national league and league 2 but hardly any of the stats you copied were from league 1 (the one he has been signed to play in) either.

    BWP wasn't prolific in the championship before he played for us, didn't stop him banging them in in league 1.

    The difference between Bonne and Bogle's moves from the lower league to the championship were one was bought as a first team player, by a club with parachute money, the other was bought as a "development project" by a manger starved of funds. 
  • ross1
    ross1 Posts: 50,974
    I know most people look at how many goals a striker scores, but I prefer to see how many goals they are involved in. If he can score between 10-15 goals and assist in the same amount, I would be happy
  • charltonbob
    charltonbob Posts: 8,254
    king addick said:
    Its so much more than just scoring goals. Players need to fit systems and form partnerships etc. He can bring other players in with his strength and knock downs from headers. 

    Bowyer can see how Bogle fits into his plans otherwise he wouldn't have signed him, he said they wouldn't panic buy and I dont think they have.

    Bonne scored 11 goals sure but when he was bad, he was really bad. 

    Just give the guy a chance.
    Well as I said in my earlier post maybe he can help create chances for others in the box but I'm scratching my head to think of who looks capable of sticking them away, hopefully maddison will weigh in with a few. It's not a panic signing only in the sense that we HAD to bring in someone, if the cap hadn't been brought in I don't think there's any way we would have signed bogle. Leaving aside non league Grimsby he has never scored more than 4 goals for a club & while wiki obviously doesn't tell the whole story I think it does tell us that he isn't a goal scorer. 

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