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England's oldest league football club - Crystal Palace
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That’s when they opened the Terry Waite stand at Shithouse Park.0
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Well, we can put this one to bed easily enough.
The whole debate about 'oldest' football clubs is addressed beautifully in Martin Westby's "England's Oldest Football Clubs 1815-1889". Amongst other things, Martin establishes 'classification rules' which have now been widely accepted and these are as follows:
1) Was the Club listed in Charles Alcock's 'Football Annuals' between 1868 and 1889?
2) Assuming a joint venture with Athletics, Cricket and/or Rugby, when did the Club fully embrace the Association game? Evidence would include membership of the County FA or involvement in the Football Association Cup
3) Does the Club exist in the press of their day?
On that basis, Martin has Crystal Palace FC as being founded in 1905 … joint 34th place with Chelsea and ... umm … Charlton Athletic.
For those interested, Nottm Forest top the tree (1865) now that Notts County are no longer with us.
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On a separate note, this kind of approach (classification rules) would serve us well when we next debate 'Best Bob Dylan tracks' or something like that.
Such things inevitably reduce down to 'I like this, but I don't like that'. Hardly useful criteria for judging 'best', don't you think?
I'll ask Martin Westby if he wants to draw up some criteria … or maybe not.
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So what.1
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Let them claim it, we still have more top flight seasons than them and It will take them 6 more seasons to draw level with us
https://www.myfootballfacts.com/england_footy/football-league/seasons-in-top-flight/
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They've got to find a way to be relevant somehow, bless 'em.
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Next they'll say the ultras were their idea and they were the first ream to have a blue and red striped kit.1
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They are nothing more than an embarrassment.
Always trying to claim something that isn't true.
South London is ours.
No it ain't you stripy pricks.6 -
They celebrated their centenary in 2005, the same year as we celebrated ours.
As they had spent the first 60 odd years farting around in Division 3 and 4 their dvd must have been riveting.
Now they are trying to cast doubt that they got the date right. Plums0 - Sponsored links:
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Team of the (18)60s1
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"Oldest league football club never to have won a trophy"23
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I hate Twitter because I feel that it does not allow you the space to express an opinion properly. In this case however there is no other way of contacting the journalist so apart from when I first joined Twitter about ten years ago just to contact easyjet's customer services, this is my first tweet:
The Guardian normally would do proper research before publishing an article. The claims of Crystal Palace FC are just not true. They celebrated their centenary in 2005. Now that Notts County are out of the league they are trying to cast doubt on it. Utter tosh.0 -
They've got Gillingham's badge instead of Glossop'spaulie8290 said:Let them claim it, we still have more top flight seasons than them and It will take them 6 more seasons to draw level with us
https://www.myfootballfacts.com/england_footy/football-league/seasons-in-top-flight/1 -
They try so hard to force an identity don’t they?
”South London & Proud” - Even though they’re really not proper South London
The ultras = A fake and contrived atmosphere
And now this.
They have an insecure set of supporters who will do anything to try and be relevant and force their own ‘brand’
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This is less credible than my claim that Charlton won the World Cup in 1966 - 2 players called Charlton and the captain was a Charlton supporter. Wearing red shirts and white shorts too.
Far more evidence for Charlton winning the World Cup than Palace being the oldest league club
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So, they claim they are South London and that's bollocks... fuck off!1
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Don't understand why the club is driving this to be honest....
115 years without a trophy sounds much better than 159 years without one.14 -
Thanks dave. I didn't know about this book. I've just bought it. I've also bought a couple of other football history books that I've been meaning to get for some time. So thanks for giving me a nudge to get on and do it.Dave Rudd said:Well, we can put this one to bed easily enough.
The whole debate about 'oldest' football clubs is addressed beautifully in Martin Westby's "England's Oldest Football Clubs 1815-1889". Amongst other things, Martin establishes 'classification rules' which have now been widely accepted and these are as follows:
1) Was the Club listed in Charles Alcock's 'Football Annuals' between 1868 and 1889?
2) Assuming a joint venture with Athletics, Cricket and/or Rugby, when did the Club fully embrace the Association game? Evidence would include membership of the County FA or involvement in the Football Association Cup
3) Does the Club exist in the press of their day?
On that basis, Martin has Crystal Palace FC as being founded in 1905 … joint 34th place with Chelsea and ... umm … Charlton Athletic.
For those interested, Nottm Forest top the tree (1865) now that Notts County are no longer with us.
Actually there's a whole website on the subject: https://www.englandsoldestfootballclubs.com/
And for other football history books: https://www.sportspages.com/shop/football/football_books/football_history0 -
My pleasure @jimmymelrose. In truth, I think Martin's book has become the definitive reference now. He has done a great job … built on the back of his earlier work about Sheffield FC.
I'll ask him for my 10%.
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https://spiksley.com/crystal-palace-fc-1861-or-1905/
A very thorough debunking of the spurious claims by Palace.
A case study in putting wish fulfilment over facts by the Glaziers.
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People in glass houses...Henry Irving said:https://spiksley.com/crystal-palace-fc-1861-or-1905/
A very thorough debunking of the spurious claims by Palace.
A case study in putting wish fulfilment over facts by the Glaziers.5 -
I know we’ve been lucky with Colin Cameron and latterly the museum taking care of our history, but if there was anything in this claim at all, why has it taken them 115 years to realise it?And they call us clowns......1
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So. Crystal Palarse are full of shit are they? well well well!Henry Irving said:https://spiksley.com/crystal-palace-fc-1861-or-1905/
A very thorough debunking of the spurious claims by Palace.
A case study in putting wish fulfilment over facts by the Glaziers.0 -
Congratulations to Chrystal Palace.
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This sort thing gets a tad boring, the continuous rewriting of history. Next we are going to hear from another amateur historian about new found documents found , telling us about villagers kicking a pigs bladder about on the very same site of the old wooden stand.0
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Funny you should say that.charltonkeston said:This sort thing gets a tad boring, the continuous rewriting of history. Next we are going to hear from another amateur historian about new found documents found , telling us about villagers kicking a pigs bladder about on the very same site of the old wooden stand.
I'm currently investigating the links between Seimans and Charlton Athletic.
Turns out we're the oldest league club in Germany.
We also played games at Blackheath Rugby Club, the oldest Football club in the world. Clearly this makes us their football arm and so the oldest club in the world.
FACT4 -
So they were actually more successful as a cricket club than a football one?Athletico Charlton said:3 -
Actually, I have documentary evidence proving that The Crystal Palace never existed. It was just a large mural. Perhaps that's how it was burnt down so efficiently.Stig said:
People in glass houses...Henry Irving said:https://spiksley.com/crystal-palace-fc-1861-or-1905/
A very thorough debunking of the spurious claims by Palace.
A case study in putting wish fulfilment over facts by the Glaziers.0 -
From the above:Henry Irving said:https://spiksley.com/crystal-palace-fc-1861-or-1905/
A very thorough debunking of the spurious claims by Palace.
A case study in putting wish fulfilment over facts by the Glaziers.
In the document we follow the qualification requirements as outlined by Martin Westby in his England’s Oldest Football Club’s 1815-1889: A New chronological classification of early football published last year.
Dave Rudd said: Well, we can put this one to bed easily enough.
The whole debate about 'oldest' football clubs is addressed beautifully in Martin Westby's "England's Oldest Football Clubs 1815-1889". Amongst other things, Martin establishes 'classification rules' which have now been widely accepted and these are as follows:
1) Was the Club listed in Charles Alcock's 'Football Annuals' between 1868 and 1889?
2) Assuming a joint venture with Athletics, Cricket and/or Rugby, when did the Club fully embrace the Association game? Evidence would include membership of the County FA or involvement in the Football Association Cup
3) Does the Club exist in the press of their day?
On that basis, Martin has Crystal Palace FC as being founded in 1905 … joint 34th place with Chelsea and ... umm … Charlton Athletic.
For those interested, Nottm Forest top the tree (1865) now that Notts County are no longer with us.
Maybe they should have checked here first.
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