Modern satnavs that would surely be standard in all EV’s are able to calculate journeys in real time, based on distance, speed, route and traffic conditions. That’s far more useful than a google prediction taking into account a stop for charging, refilling, a mars bar or a piss. Quite frankly until an EV can provide me with a charge to get me from Leeds to London return I really can’t be doing with it. Certainly not at the price wanted for a car large enough for my needs and spec I want.
The satnav will still be using a network as I described. One of the EVs I test drove told me an out-of-date speed limit for a road in Greenwich (a black mark from me). I am confident Google's network and calculations will be better than those of a satnav unless, of course, you are purchasing an EV like me that uses Google for its navigation !
Modern satnavs that would surely be standard in all EV’s are able to calculate journeys in real time, based on distance, speed, route and traffic conditions. That’s far more useful than a google prediction taking into account a stop for charging, refilling, a mars bar or a piss. Quite frankly until an EV can provide me with a charge to get me from Leeds to London return I really can’t be doing with it. Certainly not at the price wanted for a car large enough for my needs and spec I want.
The satnav will still be using a network as I described. One of the EVs I test drove told me an out-of-date speed limit for a road in Greenwich (a black mark from me). I am confident Google's network and calculations will be better than those of a satnav unless, of course, you are purchasing an EV like me that uses Google for its navigation !
This argument is in danger of becoming a bit of a diversion, but anyway. My car has a TomTom satnav, which I’m quite impressed with. It proposed the same route home on Sunday as Google, and gave a time of arrival. Basically I drove at around the max speed allowed and the time of arrival hardly changed - until we stopped. Then the new time of arrival was later by the amount of time we spent filling up, and later having lunch. It also spotted traffic delays ahead, and adjusted the arrival time by the amount of the projected delay. As the delay built up it eventually automatically re-routed us, and having done that, improved the arrival time back to what it had been before the delay ahead was spotted. Cool! But the point is it did not try to build in for us a pitstop of any kind and I dont believe Google does either.
BTW, if you are ever in Germany, I’d always get a second opinion before believing Google Maps. It’s quite a well-known problem.
Google maps is shit. Certainly is in London anyway. It will tell you roads are closed when they aren't. It will tell you roads are open when they aren't.
A full charge for my vehicle up town now is anything around £12-15. It was about £7 2 years ago. Luckily mines a hybrid and once electric is gone I drive on petrol. Wouldn't be without my home charger. £1.75 for a full charge and it's coming down shortly too.
Google maps is shit. Certainly is in London anyway. It will tell you roads are closed when they aren't. It will tell you roads are open when they aren't.
A full charge for my vehicle up town now is anything around £12-15. It was about £7 2 years ago. Luckily mines a hybrid and once electric is gone I drive on petrol. Wouldn't be without my home charger. £1.75 for a full charge and it's coming down shortly too.
one.network supply road closures info to Google and TomTom. Perhaps the government should set up a definitive source for road info. While EV range has yet to reach petrol and diesel cars it is more important than ever that road info is correct and charging ststion status is accurate.
I have an MG4 EV. Doing my first long trip soon up to Scotland. Can use apps which will dot out your route for you based on chargers. It reckons 2/3 stops to charge for about 20-30 mins a time. I have a shockingly weak bladder so would be stopping at least 3 times anyway and by the time I've gone and the dogs gone it'll almost be time to head off again. Only issue will be if they're all in use but we will see. I'm getting a home charger next week whereby it'll cost me less than £2 to fully charge. At least it'll help offset it costing about £50 in public charging to get up to Scotland
I have an MG4 EV. Doing my first long trip soon up to Scotland. Can use apps which will dot out your route for you based on chargers. It reckons 2/3 stops to charge for about 20-30 mins a time. I have a shockingly weak bladder so would be stopping at least 3 times anyway and by the time I've gone and the dogs gone it'll almost be time to head off again. Only issue will be if they're all in use but we will see. I'm getting a home charger next week whereby it'll cost me less than £2 to fully charge. At least it'll help offset it costing about £50 in public charging to get up to Scotland
Couldn't live without my home charge. £1.80 a charge. Only 60 miles though but prob around £10-£15 in town and then a long wait to get on one too.
I have an MG4 EV. Doing my first long trip soon up to Scotland. Can use apps which will dot out your route for you based on chargers. It reckons 2/3 stops to charge for about 20-30 mins a time. I have a shockingly weak bladder so would be stopping at least 3 times anyway and by the time I've gone and the dogs gone it'll almost be time to head off again. Only issue will be if they're all in use but we will see. I'm getting a home charger next week whereby it'll cost me less than £2 to fully charge. At least it'll help offset it costing about £50 in public charging to get up to Scotland
£2 to fully charge ? How many miles for that - My Kona charged at home costs about £20 for 280 miles
I don't know how correct it is but I've heard insurance on EVs has massively increased. Mainly down to battery costs/availability. If you have an accident (or fire) that needs battery replacement then it is so expensive that the vehicle is often a write-off which has inflated the costs. Anyone experienced this?
I don't know how correct it is but I've heard insurance on EVs has massively increased. Mainly down to battery costs/availability. If you have an accident (or fire) that needs battery replacement then it is so expensive that the vehicle is often a write-off which has inflated the costs. Anyone experienced this?
We renewed ours earlier this year, no massive change in cost
I have an MG4 EV. Doing my first long trip soon up to Scotland. Can use apps which will dot out your route for you based on chargers. It reckons 2/3 stops to charge for about 20-30 mins a time. I have a shockingly weak bladder so would be stopping at least 3 times anyway and by the time I've gone and the dogs gone it'll almost be time to head off again. Only issue will be if they're all in use but we will see. I'm getting a home charger next week whereby it'll cost me less than £2 to fully charge. At least it'll help offset it costing about £50 in public charging to get up to Scotland
£2 to fully charge ? How many miles for that - My Kona charged at home costs about £20 for 280 miles
Sorry I was totally misleading there! I didn't quite mean fully charge. I keep calling it fully charge when I mean going from around ~ 20-80% charge, as that is the range I always tend to be within, which is around 120 miles of charge. I'm on the intelligent Octopus tariff which enables cheap charging overnight at 7p per kwh, which works out at £3.57 for 200 miles
I don't know how correct it is but I've heard insurance on EVs has massively increased. Mainly down to battery costs/availability. If you have an accident (or fire) that needs battery replacement then it is so expensive that the vehicle is often a write-off which has inflated the costs. Anyone experienced this?
Everyone has to pay higher insurance as a result of EVs being more expensive to repair.
EVs aren't the future really, unless there's fundamental change in the way the National Grid operates.
If every car on the road now was electric and we were all driving as much as we do currently, and therefore all charging our cars overnight, there would be mass blackouts
EVs aren't the future really, unless there's fundamental change in the way the National Grid operates.
If every car on the road now was electric and we were all driving as much as we do currently, and therefore all charging our cars overnight, there would be mass blackouts
@sam3110 That's disinformation that appeared, surprise surprise, in the Daily Mail:
“Nor can Britain’s electricity infrastructure be adapted easily or quickly to cope with the extra demand implied by the transition – without further subsidies.
“Just to supply the extra electricity for a fully electric fleet would mean a near doubling of the number of wind farms (plus necessary gas-fired back-up), or an equivalent new supply from nuclear a technology that takes decades to build.”
This is nonsense, as National Grid has pointed out. An article published on its website in August 2022 titled ‘Busting the myths and misconceptions about electric vehicles’ included as Myth 1: “The electricity grid won’t be able to handle the increase in EVs.” National Grid states:
“The most demand for electricity in recent years in the UK was for 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.
“Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we believe demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation.”
According to the latest statistics published by the UK Government, 24.6 per cent of electricity generated last year was provided by onshore and offshore wind, so Viscount Ridley’s claim that a doubling of wind farms would be required is wrong.
EVs aren't the future really, unless there's fundamental change in the way the National Grid operates.
If every car on the road now was electric and we were all driving as much as we do currently, and therefore all charging our cars overnight, there would be mass blackouts
@sam3110 That's disinformation that appeared, surprise surprise, in the Daily Mail:
“Nor can Britain’s electricity infrastructure be adapted easily or quickly to cope with the extra demand implied by the transition – without further subsidies.
“Just to supply the extra electricity for a fully electric fleet would mean a near doubling of the number of wind farms (plus necessary gas-fired back-up), or an equivalent new supply from nuclear a technology that takes decades to build.”
This is nonsense, as National Grid has pointed out. An article published on its website in August 2022 titled ‘Busting the myths and misconceptions about electric vehicles’ included as Myth 1: “The electricity grid won’t be able to handle the increase in EVs.” National Grid states:
“The most demand for electricity in recent years in the UK was for 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.
“Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we believe demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation.”
According to the latest statistics published by the UK Government, 24.6 per cent of electricity generated last year was provided by onshore and offshore wind, so Viscount Ridley’s claim that a doubling of wind farms would be required is wrong.
Last sentence certainly but the significant upgrading of the national grid is essential if the problems mentioned above are not a real possibility. At present if everyone owned an EV our sub stations couldn’t cope. There’s an awful lot of work to be done and just fitting public charging stations isn’t the end of it.
EVs aren't the future really, unless there's fundamental change in the way the National Grid operates.
If every car on the road now was electric and we were all driving as much as we do currently, and therefore all charging our cars overnight, there would be mass blackouts
@sam3110 That's disinformation that appeared, surprise surprise, in the Daily Mail:
“Nor can Britain’s electricity infrastructure be adapted easily or quickly to cope with the extra demand implied by the transition – without further subsidies.
“Just to supply the extra electricity for a fully electric fleet would mean a near doubling of the number of wind farms (plus necessary gas-fired back-up), or an equivalent new supply from nuclear a technology that takes decades to build.”
This is nonsense, as National Grid has pointed out. An article published on its website in August 2022 titled ‘Busting the myths and misconceptions about electric vehicles’ included as Myth 1: “The electricity grid won’t be able to handle the increase in EVs.” National Grid states:
“The most demand for electricity in recent years in the UK was for 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.
“Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we believe demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation.”
According to the latest statistics published by the UK Government, 24.6 per cent of electricity generated last year was provided by onshore and offshore wind, so Viscount Ridley’s claim that a doubling of wind farms would be required is wrong.
Last sentence certainly but the significant upgrading of the national grid is essential if the problems mentioned above are not a real possibility. At present if everyone owned an EV our sub stations couldn’t cope. There’s an awful lot of work to be done and just fitting public charging stations isn’t the end of it.
Not everyone is charging at 300kW/H, most home chargers plod along at 7KW, most people only charge their cars up once or twice a week in the winter, and less in the summer, as it's usually a top up to 80% not everyone is trying to put 80kw into their Model 3 every night
We've charged our 60kwh battery car once in 2024, and will probably next charge it on Friday
EVs aren't the future really, unless there's fundamental change in the way the National Grid operates.
If every car on the road now was electric and we were all driving as much as we do currently, and therefore all charging our cars overnight, there would be mass blackouts
@sam3110 That's disinformation that appeared, surprise surprise, in the Daily Mail:
“Nor can Britain’s electricity infrastructure be adapted easily or quickly to cope with the extra demand implied by the transition – without further subsidies.
“Just to supply the extra electricity for a fully electric fleet would mean a near doubling of the number of wind farms (plus necessary gas-fired back-up), or an equivalent new supply from nuclear a technology that takes decades to build.”
This is nonsense, as National Grid has pointed out. An article published on its website in August 2022 titled ‘Busting the myths and misconceptions about electric vehicles’ included as Myth 1: “The electricity grid won’t be able to handle the increase in EVs.” National Grid states:
“The most demand for electricity in recent years in the UK was for 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.
“Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we believe demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation.”
According to the latest statistics published by the UK Government, 24.6 per cent of electricity generated last year was provided by onshore and offshore wind, so Viscount Ridley’s claim that a doubling of wind farms would be required is wrong.
Last sentence certainly but the significant upgrading of the national grid is essential if the problems mentioned above are not a real possibility. At present if everyone owned an EV our sub stations couldn’t cope. There’s an awful lot of work to be done and just fitting public charging stations isn’t the end of it.
Not everyone is charging at 300kW/H, most home chargers plod along at 7KW, most people only charge their cars up once or twice a week in the winter, and less in the summer, as it's usually a top up to 80% not everyone is trying to put 80kw into their Model 3 every night
We've charged our 60kwh battery car once in 2024, and will probably next charge it on Friday
But if we’re aiming for every car, van, bus and lorry on the road that’s an awful lot of vehicles needing to be charged compared to now. The localised electricity sub stations we hardly notice but are very common in fact are currently not up to the job. I’m not saying that between now and when it becomes a problem the upgrades won’t have taken place but what I am saying is that at present our infrastructure isn’t up to the requirements by some way.
EVs aren't the future really, unless there's fundamental change in the way the National Grid operates.
If every car on the road now was electric and we were all driving as much as we do currently, and therefore all charging our cars overnight, there would be mass blackouts
@sam3110 That's disinformation that appeared, surprise surprise, in the Daily Mail:
“Nor can Britain’s electricity infrastructure be adapted easily or quickly to cope with the extra demand implied by the transition – without further subsidies.
“Just to supply the extra electricity for a fully electric fleet would mean a near doubling of the number of wind farms (plus necessary gas-fired back-up), or an equivalent new supply from nuclear a technology that takes decades to build.”
This is nonsense, as National Grid has pointed out. An article published on its website in August 2022 titled ‘Busting the myths and misconceptions about electric vehicles’ included as Myth 1: “The electricity grid won’t be able to handle the increase in EVs.” National Grid states:
“The most demand for electricity in recent years in the UK was for 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.
“Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we believe demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation.”
According to the latest statistics published by the UK Government, 24.6 per cent of electricity generated last year was provided by onshore and offshore wind, so Viscount Ridley’s claim that a doubling of wind farms would be required is wrong.
Last sentence certainly but the significant upgrading of the national grid is essential if the problems mentioned above are not a real possibility. At present if everyone owned an EV our sub stations couldn’t cope. There’s an awful lot of work to be done and just fitting public charging stations isn’t the end of it.
Not everyone is charging at 300kW/H, most home chargers plod along at 7KW, most people only charge their cars up once or twice a week in the winter, and less in the summer, as it's usually a top up to 80% not everyone is trying to put 80kw into their Model 3 every night
We've charged our 60kwh battery car once in 2024, and will probably next charge it on Friday
But if we’re aiming for every car, van, bus and lorry on the road that’s an awful lot of vehicles needing to be charged compared to now. The localised electricity sub stations we hardly notice but are very common in fact are currently not up to the job. I’m not saying that between now and when it becomes a problem the upgrades won’t have taken place but what I am saying is that at present our infrastructure isn’t up to the requirements by some way.
yep the national infrastructure has been left to rot for the past 14 years, but we're not seeing any issues now, loads of home charging packages push the charging to overnight when demand is less (infact we have an excess of power) and doesn't effect the grid. Grid management will do a lot of the work
EVs aren't the future really, unless there's fundamental change in the way the National Grid operates.
If every car on the road now was electric and we were all driving as much as we do currently, and therefore all charging our cars overnight, there would be mass blackouts
@sam3110 That's disinformation that appeared, surprise surprise, in the Daily Mail:
“Nor can Britain’s electricity infrastructure be adapted easily or quickly to cope with the extra demand implied by the transition – without further subsidies.
“Just to supply the extra electricity for a fully electric fleet would mean a near doubling of the number of wind farms (plus necessary gas-fired back-up), or an equivalent new supply from nuclear a technology that takes decades to build.”
This is nonsense, as National Grid has pointed out. An article published on its website in August 2022 titled ‘Busting the myths and misconceptions about electric vehicles’ included as Myth 1: “The electricity grid won’t be able to handle the increase in EVs.” National Grid states:
“The most demand for electricity in recent years in the UK was for 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.
“Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we believe demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation.”
According to the latest statistics published by the UK Government, 24.6 per cent of electricity generated last year was provided by onshore and offshore wind, so Viscount Ridley’s claim that a doubling of wind farms would be required is wrong.
Last sentence certainly but the significant upgrading of the national grid is essential if the problems mentioned above are not a real possibility. At present if everyone owned an EV our sub stations couldn’t cope. There’s an awful lot of work to be done and just fitting public charging stations isn’t the end of it.
Good article in this week's Economist on the need for Grid infrastructure (nor specifically wrt to electric cars)
EVs aren't the future really, unless there's fundamental change in the way the National Grid operates.
If every car on the road now was electric and we were all driving as much as we do currently, and therefore all charging our cars overnight, there would be mass blackouts
@sam3110 That's disinformation that appeared, surprise surprise, in the Daily Mail:
“Nor can Britain’s electricity infrastructure be adapted easily or quickly to cope with the extra demand implied by the transition – without further subsidies.
“Just to supply the extra electricity for a fully electric fleet would mean a near doubling of the number of wind farms (plus necessary gas-fired back-up), or an equivalent new supply from nuclear a technology that takes decades to build.”
This is nonsense, as National Grid has pointed out. An article published on its website in August 2022 titled ‘Busting the myths and misconceptions about electric vehicles’ included as Myth 1: “The electricity grid won’t be able to handle the increase in EVs.” National Grid states:
“The most demand for electricity in recent years in the UK was for 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.
“Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we believe demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation.”
According to the latest statistics published by the UK Government, 24.6 per cent of electricity generated last year was provided by onshore and offshore wind, so Viscount Ridley’s claim that a doubling of wind farms would be required is wrong.
Last sentence certainly but the significant upgrading of the national grid is essential if the problems mentioned above are not a real possibility. At present if everyone owned an EV our sub stations couldn’t cope. There’s an awful lot of work to be done and just fitting public charging stations isn’t the end of it.
'2. Do the electricity grid's wires have enough capacity for charging EVs?
The simple answer is yes. The highest peak electricity demand in the UK in recent years was 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.
Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we estimate demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002, and this is well within the range the grid can capably handle.
Nevertheless, at National Grid we’re working with the distribution networks, government, the regulator and industry to provide the green energy infrastructure around Britain – the wires, the connections to charge points – to support the needs of a decarbonised transport network into the future.'
It also adds something I'd forgotten: 'It’s also important to bear in mind that a significant amount of electricity is used to refine oil for petrol and diesel. Fully Charged’s video Volts for Oil estimates that refining 1 gallon of petrol would use around 4.5kWh of electricity – so, as we start to use fewer petrol or diesel cars, some of that electricity capacity could become available.'
EVs aren't the future really, unless there's fundamental change in the way the National Grid operates.
If every car on the road now was electric and we were all driving as much as we do currently, and therefore all charging our cars overnight, there would be mass blackouts
@sam3110 That's disinformation that appeared, surprise surprise, in the Daily Mail:
“Nor can Britain’s electricity infrastructure be adapted easily or quickly to cope with the extra demand implied by the transition – without further subsidies.
“Just to supply the extra electricity for a fully electric fleet would mean a near doubling of the number of wind farms (plus necessary gas-fired back-up), or an equivalent new supply from nuclear a technology that takes decades to build.”
This is nonsense, as National Grid has pointed out. An article published on its website in August 2022 titled ‘Busting the myths and misconceptions about electric vehicles’ included as Myth 1: “The electricity grid won’t be able to handle the increase in EVs.” National Grid states:
“The most demand for electricity in recent years in the UK was for 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.
“Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we believe demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation.”
According to the latest statistics published by the UK Government, 24.6 per cent of electricity generated last year was provided by onshore and offshore wind, so Viscount Ridley’s claim that a doubling of wind farms would be required is wrong.
Last sentence certainly but the significant upgrading of the national grid is essential if the problems mentioned above are not a real possibility. At present if everyone owned an EV our sub stations couldn’t cope. There’s an awful lot of work to be done and just fitting public charging stations isn’t the end of it.
'2. Do the electricity grid's wires have enough capacity for charging EVs?
The simple answer is yes. The highest peak electricity demand in the UK in recent years was 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.
Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we estimate demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002, and this is well within the range the grid can capably handle.
Nevertheless, at National Grid we’re working with the distribution networks, government, the regulator and industry to provide the green energy infrastructure around Britain – the wires, the connections to charge points – to support the needs of a decarbonised transport network into the future.'
It also adds something I'd forgotten: 'It’s also important to bear in mind that a significant amount of electricity is used to refine oil for petrol and diesel. Fully Charged’s video Volts for Oil estimates that refining 1 gallon of petrol would use around 4.5kWh of electricity – so, as we start to use fewer petrol or diesel cars, some of that electricity capacity could become available.'
Do we refine much oil here in the U.K.? I thought that we didn’t.
EVs aren't the future really, unless there's fundamental change in the way the National Grid operates.
If every car on the road now was electric and we were all driving as much as we do currently, and therefore all charging our cars overnight, there would be mass blackouts
@sam3110 That's disinformation that appeared, surprise surprise, in the Daily Mail:
“Nor can Britain’s electricity infrastructure be adapted easily or quickly to cope with the extra demand implied by the transition – without further subsidies.
“Just to supply the extra electricity for a fully electric fleet would mean a near doubling of the number of wind farms (plus necessary gas-fired back-up), or an equivalent new supply from nuclear a technology that takes decades to build.”
This is nonsense, as National Grid has pointed out. An article published on its website in August 2022 titled ‘Busting the myths and misconceptions about electric vehicles’ included as Myth 1: “The electricity grid won’t be able to handle the increase in EVs.” National Grid states:
“The most demand for electricity in recent years in the UK was for 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.
“Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we believe demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation.”
According to the latest statistics published by the UK Government, 24.6 per cent of electricity generated last year was provided by onshore and offshore wind, so Viscount Ridley’s claim that a doubling of wind farms would be required is wrong.
Last sentence certainly but the significant upgrading of the national grid is essential if the problems mentioned above are not a real possibility. At present if everyone owned an EV our sub stations couldn’t cope. There’s an awful lot of work to be done and just fitting public charging stations isn’t the end of it.
'2. Do the electricity grid's wires have enough capacity for charging EVs?
The simple answer is yes. The highest peak electricity demand in the UK in recent years was 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.
Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we estimate demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002, and this is well within the range the grid can capably handle.
Nevertheless, at National Grid we’re working with the distribution networks, government, the regulator and industry to provide the green energy infrastructure around Britain – the wires, the connections to charge points – to support the needs of a decarbonised transport network into the future.'
It also adds something I'd forgotten: 'It’s also important to bear in mind that a significant amount of electricity is used to refine oil for petrol and diesel. Fully Charged’s video Volts for Oil estimates that refining 1 gallon of petrol would use around 4.5kWh of electricity – so, as we start to use fewer petrol or diesel cars, some of that electricity capacity could become available.'
Do we refine much oil here in the U.K.? I thought that we didn’t.
It was that National Grid saying that, so hopefully it isn't made up.
After the Russian Federation, Italy and Germany, the UK has the fourth largest refining capacity in Europe. Its refineries meet the country's refined product demand in petrol but not in diesel and jet fuel. The UK currently has seven refineries. They are all located near port facilities to ease crude tanker access.'
the national grid infrastructure (with or without EVs) is already well below the standard and robustness we already actually need The often heard luddite grumbling about wind turbines being stopped in high winds always has a bogus reason put on it - about the turbines themselves not being able to withstand the weather. The truth being closer to the fact that the grid into which our many windfarms are plugged can barely cope with half their output on even moderately windy conditions. The current regime in No.10 frequently spouts half truths about expanding wind generation capacity, especially off shore where no votes are lost. Putting up any more turbines is an utter waste of time until the input capacity of the grid is brought up to standard. That requires digging up roads and farms which costs votes and, short term, costs billions so the current bunch of crooks aren't doing anything about it. To give you a clue as to the level of intellect and rigour leading the roll out of electrifying personal transport in UK - someone recently got an award for suggestion BT/OpenReach replaces increasingly redundant telecoms wiring with EV charging stations at green cabinet locations - underground conduits with existing electrical power connection. A good idea no doubt but 10/10 on the bleeding obvious scale.
My belief is EVs are a bit like the low cc eco boost engines. When new, they were a relevation but they have been phased out because they were rubbish in the longer term as the were too complicated and unreliable. The Ford eco boost is probably the worst engine ever made. The car companies made their money on these cars and dropped them. It is obvious hydrogen will be the solution and whilst the technology isn't there yet, they are getting there and the advantage is the current infrastucture can be used and there would be less pressure on the National Grid. Electric cars are the solution for today and partly because the true eco cost is not properly calculated. The best solution for today would be to keep your cars (family sized cars with reasonable mpg) for longer. Making and disposing of cars will give a truer picture of how eco friendly cars are.
We also need to rely on China and Russia to provide the materials for making batteries. Its a big no from me.
My belief is EVs are a bit like the low cc eco boost engines. When new, they were a relevation but they have been phased out because they were rubbish in the longer term as the were too complicated and unreliable. The Ford eco boost is probably the worst engine ever made. The car companies made their money on these cars and dropped them. It is obvious hydrogen will be the solution and whilst the technology isn't there yet, they are getting there and the advantage is the current infrastucture can be used and there would be less pressure on the National Grid. Electric cars are the solution for today and partly because the true eco cost is not properly calculated. The best solution for today would be to keep your cars (family sized cars with reasonable mpg) for longer. Making and disposing of cars will give a truer picture of how eco friendly cars are.
I'd agree if the alternative is to scrap your car, but most people will be selling or part exchanging theirs. One reason that I want to buy one is that the cost of charging it (per mile) is quite a lot lower than the cost of petrol, even with the recent increase in energy costs. Also my car will start depreciating quite rapidly soon, so I want to sell it while it's still worth something. Our main car usage, mileage wise, has been the drive to Suffolk to see my mother-in-law, but sadly she passed away just before Christmas.
My belief is EVs are a bit like the low cc eco boost engines. When new, they were a relevation but they have been phased out because they were rubbish in the longer term as the were too complicated and unreliable. The Ford eco boost is probably the worst engine ever made. The car companies made their money on these cars and dropped them. It is obvious hydrogen will be the solution and whilst the technology isn't there yet, they are getting there and the advantage is the current infrastucture can be used and there would be less pressure on the National Grid. Electric cars are the solution for today and partly because the true eco cost is not properly calculated. The best solution for today would be to keep your cars (family sized cars with reasonable mpg) for longer. Making and disposing of cars will give a truer picture of how eco friendly cars are.
I'd agree if the alternative is to scrap your car, but most people will be selling or part exchanging theirs. One reason that I want to buy one is that the cost of charging it (per mile) is quite a lot lower than the cost of petrol, even with the recent increase in energy costs. Also my car will start depreciating quite rapidly soon, so I want to sell it while it's still worth something. Our main car usage, mileage wise, has been the drive to Suffolk to see my mother-in-law, but sadly she passed away just before Christmas.
And the market will make it work for you but as has been pointed out the market won't sustain everybody doing it and if they did and it did, electricity won't go down in price which is what we need to be looking at. Using less and making sure 100% of it is produced sustainably. Work is being done to produce Hydrogen using solar energy and that will be the game changer.
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BTW, if you are ever in Germany, I’d always get a second opinion before believing Google Maps. It’s quite a well-known problem.
A full charge for my vehicle up town now is anything around £12-15. It was about £7 2 years ago. Luckily mines a hybrid and once electric is gone I drive on petrol. Wouldn't be without my home charger. £1.75 for a full charge and it's coming down shortly too.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12592047/Driver-kidnapped-electric-car-Glasgow.html
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1819834/electric-cars-police-chase-crash
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-man-kidnapped-electric-car-31099702
I'm getting a home charger next week whereby it'll cost me less than £2 to fully charge. At least it'll help offset it costing about £50 in public charging to get up to Scotland
https://www.byd.com/uk/car/dolphin
If every car on the road now was electric and we were all driving as much as we do currently, and therefore all charging our cars overnight, there would be mass blackouts
@sam3110 That's disinformation that appeared, surprise surprise, in the Daily Mail:
“Nor can Britain’s electricity infrastructure be adapted easily or quickly to cope with the extra demand implied by the transition – without further subsidies.
“Just to supply the extra electricity for a fully electric fleet would mean a near doubling of the number of wind farms (plus necessary gas-fired back-up), or an equivalent new supply from nuclear a technology that takes decades to build.”
This is nonsense, as National Grid has pointed out. An article published on its website in August 2022 titled ‘Busting the myths and misconceptions about electric vehicles’ included as Myth 1: “The electricity grid won’t be able to handle the increase in EVs.” National Grid states:
“The most demand for electricity in recent years in the UK was for 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.
“Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we believe demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation.”
According to the latest statistics published by the UK Government, 24.6 per cent of electricity generated last year was provided by onshore and offshore wind, so Viscount Ridley’s claim that a doubling of wind farms would be required is wrong.
https://www.lse.ac.uk/granthaminstitute/news/daily-mail-misleads-its-readers-about-electric-vehicles/
The Daily Mail cannot be trusted.
We've charged our 60kwh battery car once in 2024, and will probably next charge it on Friday
And remember, this is a gradual transition, not an instant one.
'2. Do the electricity grid's wires have enough capacity for charging EVs?
The simple answer is yes. The highest peak electricity demand in the UK in recent years was 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.
Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we estimate demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002, and this is well within the range the grid can capably handle.
Nevertheless, at National Grid we’re working with the distribution networks, government, the regulator and industry to provide the green energy infrastructure around Britain – the wires, the connections to charge points – to support the needs of a decarbonised transport network into the future.'
It also adds something I'd forgotten: 'It’s also important to bear in mind that a significant amount of electricity is used to refine oil for petrol and diesel. Fully Charged’s video Volts for Oil estimates that refining 1 gallon of petrol would use around 4.5kWh of electricity – so, as we start to use fewer petrol or diesel cars, some of that electricity capacity could become available.'
Just looked it up @ShootersHillGuru :
'Does the UK refine its own petrol?
The often heard luddite grumbling about wind turbines being stopped in high winds always has a bogus reason put on it - about the turbines themselves not being able to withstand the weather. The truth being closer to the fact that the grid into which our many windfarms are plugged can barely cope with half their output on even moderately windy conditions. The current regime in No.10 frequently spouts half truths about expanding wind generation capacity, especially off shore where no votes are lost. Putting up any more turbines is an utter waste of time until the input capacity of the grid is brought up to standard. That requires digging up roads and farms which costs votes and, short term, costs billions so the current bunch of crooks aren't doing anything about it.
To give you a clue as to the level of intellect and rigour leading the roll out of electrifying personal transport in UK - someone recently got an award for suggestion BT/OpenReach replaces increasingly redundant telecoms wiring with EV charging stations at green cabinet locations - underground conduits with existing electrical power connection. A good idea no doubt but 10/10 on the bleeding obvious scale.
We also need to rely on China and Russia to provide the materials for making batteries. Its a big no from me.
One reason that I want to buy one is that the cost of charging it (per mile) is quite a lot lower than the cost of petrol, even with the recent increase in energy costs. Also my car will start depreciating quite rapidly soon, so I want to sell it while it's still worth something. Our main car usage, mileage wise, has been the drive to Suffolk to see my mother-in-law, but sadly she passed away just before Christmas.