A proposal from Wolves means there will be a vote at the June AGM to scrap VAR in the Premier League from next season. 14/20 clubs would have to vote in favour to pass.
Would be good for clubs to consult with their fans and get their view whether to scrap it or not.
I'd be comfortable with VAR if it was used for a clear and obvious error but it seems to be used now to try and prove officials wrong. If they have to spend 5 minutes establishing someone is offside by a baw hair then it can't be a clear and obvious error surely?
Maybe it is time to introduce a limit on reviews like in cricket and tennis?
Also, is the tech too sophisticated? If it was simply a few camera angles, remember to ID a clear and obvious error, then it could be a quick decision. Having said that the Dumbarton game was live on BBC Alba last night and because the rain was lashing into the cameras they had to send someone round to get paper towels from the loos to wipe the rain off the cameras!
Hope they scrap it. Goal line technology is fine but just leave it at that.
Keep the goal line technology and have the semi-automated offsides (same as they had at the world cup) and i think most people would be happy if that was it.
A proposal from Wolves means there will be a vote at the June AGM to scrap VAR in the Premier League from next season. 14/20 clubs would have to vote in favour to pass.
Would be good for clubs to consult with their fans and get their view whether to scrap it or not.
What ? The FA and officials showing respect and consulting the customers ? Get back on your knees @DaveMehmet.
I'd be comfortable with VAR if it was used for a clear and obvious error but it seems to be used now to try and prove officials wrong. If they have to spend 5 minutes establishing someone is offside by a baw hair then it can't be a clear and obvious error surely?
Maybe it is time to introduce a limit on reviews like in cricket and tennis?
Also, is the tech too sophisticated? If it was simply a few camera angles, remember to ID a clear and obvious error, then it could be a quick decision. Having said that the Dumbarton game was live on BBC Alba last night and because the rain was lashing into the cameras they had to send someone round to get paper towels from the loos to wipe the rain off the cameras!
On the contrary, VAR is used to prove the officials right if at all possible.
I wouldn’t mind if it were used just for clear and obvious errors but if some guy in a box somewhere has to watch it numerous times taking four or five minutes then it’s not a clear and obvious error. I’d dump it as I hate it but if it were to remain I’d limit the number of times an incident can be watched to three and impose a 30 second time limit on making a decision.
I wouldn’t mind if it were used just for clear and obvious errors but if some guy in a box somewhere has to watch it numerous times taking four or five minutes then it’s not a clear and obvious error. I’d dump it as I hate it but if it were to remain I’d limit the number of times an incident can be watched to three and impose a 30 second time limit on making a decision.
I feel like you towards it. If it has to be used though, I think it should be done like cricket where the opposition have the right to make a certain number of appeals, I'd say one appeal each team per half, with no carry overs.
If they vote to keep it, I want every manager whose club voted to keep it reminded of that every time they then moan about it when it obviously goes tits up again.
The bigger problem in football at the moment is the insidious claims of corruption. It is prevalent on social media unsurprisingly, and it's crept into the statements the clubs are putting out. Given that Liverpool and Arsenal feel as victimised as Forest and Wolves, I am wondering who exactly the referees are supposed to be favouring.
It's ineptitude, not corruption. And yet, ultimately, as long as footballers are cheats - and to a man they are all cheats who see the referee as someone to play as much as the other team - I think they can mostly shut the fuck up. The referees are making some pretty bad errors here and there but I just think they get the majority of things right in the face of two teams doing their absolute best to get the decision in their favour, even when they know they are wrong.
There will never be a foolproof refereeing system that can deal with that and the litany of situations that are subjective, at least until AI is capable of sorting it all out (at which point we'll all be doomed anyway). Worth noting that the EAFC video game series is on rails, where there is no room for subjectivity. And yet in a game of Pro Clubs the players will STILL argue that the referee got something wrong!
VAR is capable of getting things right, and this thread shows how hard it is to do that. We all have a different vision of how it should be used. Some people are saying it should have a time limit. In which case the criticism will be that they failed to come to the right decision in the time limit, as Sky, TNT and Twitter won't have that time limit for us to make our own - differing - calls on.
If we had an appeal system and the referees missed something blatant that can't be appealed, would we be happy that VAR couldn't intervene? If you use your one life up on a decision that the ref initially got wrong then had to reverse, what if he gets something else wrong? Do you keep your calls until you call incorrectly, then don't get to challenge a blatant mistake later because you disagreed on an offside that couldn't be determined because of a lack of pixels on a 4k monitor?
A linesman calling a goal offside is one of the worst parts of football (unless it's your team obvs) so VAR getting involved in that is inevitably going to be annoying. And I agree that a toenail being beyond the defender is not the spirit of the law that was set in order to stop goal hanging. And yet it's a binary law. Rarely are offsides called incorrectly by VAR. When they are it's particularly egregious admittedly.
I think the people running VAR need to get better at it, and I think that will happen, especially if they can be constructively helped, rather than attacked with pitchforks. The discourse around football means that this shit will never go away. Matches take up a fraction of our week, the rest is filled be chatter. The likes of punditry leeches Redknapp and Carragher literally live off of all this. And yet the one thing nobody talks about is how badly all clubs treat the referees as something to rail against. And that is a far, far bigger problem to the integrity of the game than a video replay being called incorrectly.
I think we are reacting to the terrible job football has made of implimenting it. It would be far better IMO to improve it. You have to strat from a point that perfection is impossible and there will often be a judgement made which should be fine. We should scrap the pitchside screen and the only time a decision is changed should be when there is a clear and obvious error which is not determined by the ref on the pitch but the one in the VAR room. When I say clear and obvious, the line has to be much higher than it seems to be now. I think that could make the system work.
The semi-automated offside system will help and there are no arguments then. There has been no consistency with VAR as to where the lines are drawn. One minute it is the back of the heel, then an arse cheek, then an arm or a shoulder. I personally wish they'd go back to obvious daylight between defender and attacker. The bloody offsides where the lines are drawn and there is not even a couple of cms in it are ridiculous. If it looks level, its on in the attackers favour
I'd like VAR to be run like DRS in cricket. Each club has 2 appeals per game
VAR continues to review fouls and goal validity of non-offside issues but clubs can request a review of a pen or another incident at the first opportunity the ball goes out of play... a bit like the flag system that is used in American Football I guess.
I'll give two examples. Both from the NLD as its fresh in the recently memory...
1. Kulusevski tripped in the box at 1-0 which led to the Arsenal breakaway at 2nd goal. Most pundits said that should have been a penalty. 2. Partey pushed Romero with 2 hands in the chest at a corner, where Romero hit the post. Could be argued that was a pen too.
Neither were looked at by VAR. Spurs could have triggered the VAR appeal in that instance.
The VARs then have a maximum of 60 seconds to find a majority verdict in favour of sticking with original decision or overturning and its played on the big screens in the stadiums so everyone can hear what is going on.
In a sane world with real football people making decisions VAR would be scrapped in the blink of an eye - but as we see with the shitefest that is The 100 in cricket we are run by bloodless, soulless money men who only see value in a balance sheet. It will stay.
How keeping VAR but only using it at the end of the match in event of a draw to determine the winner? The end of a drawn match would have replays on the big screen to illustrate VAR corrections to the score. We could then do away with drawn matches completely.
It may seem like an idea that’s way out there but I like it. My really crazy idea is this:
If the match is still drawn then VAR officials who ’officially support’ the teams involved have a mud wrestling fight in the centre circle.
I’ve never liked it. For me all match officials are completely honest and impartial and I accept that they’ll get things wrong. They’ve got things wrong since football was invented. I don’t mind that. It evens itself out pretty much. Football is without doubt the beautiful game and I hate it when it gets tinkered with. The only change I’d like to see is referees being given more power and for players to be banned from speaking with or crowding the referee.
I’ve never liked it. For me all match officials are completely honest and impartial and I accept that they’ll get things wrong. They’ve got things wrong since football was invented. I don’t mind that. It evens itself out pretty much. Football is without doubt the beautiful game and I hate it when it gets tinkered with. The only change I’d like to see is referees being given more power and for players to be banned from speaking with or crowding the referee.
I echo these sentiments. Let one person get it wrong rather than holding up the game while several people have to come to an agreement.
I’ve never liked it. For me all match officials are completely honest and impartial and I accept that they’ll get things wrong. They’ve got things wrong since football was invented. I don’t mind that. It evens itself out pretty much. Football is without doubt the beautiful game and I hate it when it gets tinkered with. The only change I’d like to see is referees being given more power and for players to be banned from speaking with or crowding the referee.
Agree totally. For me one thing that VAR has done has made officials ‘lazy’ and their performance has dropped because they know that VAR is there to ultimately make the decision. Their authority has been seriously eroded.
I never get overly annoyed with officials. They give decisions how they see it with just the one opportunity. Yes they get things wrong but in the course of a single game both sides has decisions go against them to moan about and it’s all swings and roundabouts. I’d rather have officials making honest errors than have VAR which, in my opinion, is ruining football.
I’ve never liked it. For me all match officials are completely honest and impartial and I accept that they’ll get things wrong. They’ve got things wrong since football was invented. I don’t mind that. It evens itself out pretty much. Football is without doubt the beautiful game and I hate it when it gets tinkered with. The only change I’d like to see is referees being given more power and for players to be banned from speaking with or crowding the referee.
they're trialling this at the Euros- only captains to speak to the ref (or a nominated outfield player if the captain is in goal)
I’ve never liked it. For me all match officials are completely honest and impartial and I accept that they’ll get things wrong. They’ve got things wrong since football was invented. I don’t mind that. It evens itself out pretty much. Football is without doubt the beautiful game and I hate it when it gets tinkered with. The only change I’d like to see is referees being given more power and for players to be banned from speaking with or crowding the referee.
they're trialling this at the Euros- only captains to speak to the ref (or a nominated outfield player if the captain is in goal)
I worry that even if it is a success, it will go the same way as getting booked for standing over the ball at free kicks or the keeper hanging onto the ball for over six seconds - enforced for a while and then forgotten about.
I’ve never liked it. For me all match officials are completely honest and impartial and I accept that they’ll get things wrong. They’ve got things wrong since football was invented. I don’t mind that. It evens itself out pretty much. Football is without doubt the beautiful game and I hate it when it gets tinkered with. The only change I’d like to see is referees being given more power and for players to be banned from speaking with or crowding the referee.
they're trialling this at the Euros- only captains to speak to the ref (or a nominated outfield player if the captain is in goal)
I worry that even if it is a success, it will go the same way as getting booked for standing over the ball at free kicks or the keeper hanging onto the ball for over six seconds - enforced for a while and then forgotten about.
Players leaving the pitch at the nearest point rather than the halfway line, The attacking team being given the benefit of the doubt in offside decisions, VAR only being used to correct "clear and obvious" errors
Another VAR mistake today. The bloke down the pub will tell you that you need a defender between the forward and the goal to be onside but this is wrong. You need two, but one is normally the keeper. For Arsenal's winner, Pickford came charging out past all the players in the action. So when the cross came in, there was only one defender between Havertz and the goal. Keeper was not active. OFFSIDE.
Comments
How about FA cup replays to us lesser minions.
Fuck em.
Maybe it is time to introduce a limit on reviews like in cricket and tennis?
Also, is the tech too sophisticated? If it was simply a few camera angles, remember to ID a clear and obvious error, then it could be a quick decision. Having said that the Dumbarton game was live on BBC Alba last night and because the rain was lashing into the cameras they had to send someone round to get paper towels from the loos to wipe the rain off the cameras!
And I don't want all.
It's ineptitude, not corruption. And yet, ultimately, as long as footballers are cheats - and to a man they are all cheats who see the referee as someone to play as much as the other team - I think they can mostly shut the fuck up. The referees are making some pretty bad errors here and there but I just think they get the majority of things right in the face of two teams doing their absolute best to get the decision in their favour, even when they know they are wrong.
There will never be a foolproof refereeing system that can deal with that and the litany of situations that are subjective, at least until AI is capable of sorting it all out (at which point we'll all be doomed anyway). Worth noting that the EAFC video game series is on rails, where there is no room for subjectivity. And yet in a game of Pro Clubs the players will STILL argue that the referee got something wrong!
VAR is capable of getting things right, and this thread shows how hard it is to do that. We all have a different vision of how it should be used. Some people are saying it should have a time limit. In which case the criticism will be that they failed to come to the right decision in the time limit, as Sky, TNT and Twitter won't have that time limit for us to make our own - differing - calls on.
If we had an appeal system and the referees missed something blatant that can't be appealed, would we be happy that VAR couldn't intervene? If you use your one life up on a decision that the ref initially got wrong then had to reverse, what if he gets something else wrong? Do you keep your calls until you call incorrectly, then don't get to challenge a blatant mistake later because you disagreed on an offside that couldn't be determined because of a lack of pixels on a 4k monitor?
A linesman calling a goal offside is one of the worst parts of football (unless it's your team obvs) so VAR getting involved in that is inevitably going to be annoying. And I agree that a toenail being beyond the defender is not the spirit of the law that was set in order to stop goal hanging. And yet it's a binary law. Rarely are offsides called incorrectly by VAR. When they are it's particularly egregious admittedly.
I think the people running VAR need to get better at it, and I think that will happen, especially if they can be constructively helped, rather than attacked with pitchforks. The discourse around football means that this shit will never go away. Matches take up a fraction of our week, the rest is filled be chatter. The likes of punditry leeches Redknapp and Carragher literally live off of all this. And yet the one thing nobody talks about is how badly all clubs treat the referees as something to rail against. And that is a far, far bigger problem to the integrity of the game than a video replay being called incorrectly.
I'd like VAR to be run like DRS in cricket. Each club has 2 appeals per game
VAR continues to review fouls and goal validity of non-offside issues but clubs can request a review of a pen or another incident at the first opportunity the ball goes out of play... a bit like the flag system that is used in American Football I guess.
I'll give two examples. Both from the NLD as its fresh in the recently memory...
1. Kulusevski tripped in the box at 1-0 which led to the Arsenal breakaway at 2nd goal. Most pundits said that should have been a penalty.
2. Partey pushed Romero with 2 hands in the chest at a corner, where Romero hit the post. Could be argued that was a pen too.
Neither were looked at by VAR. Spurs could have triggered the VAR appeal in that instance.
The VARs then have a maximum of 60 seconds to find a majority verdict in favour of sticking with original decision or overturning and its played on the big screens in the stadiums so everyone can hear what is going on.
The end of a drawn match would have replays on the big screen to illustrate VAR corrections to the score.
We could then do away with drawn matches completely.
It may seem like an idea that’s way out there but I like it. My really crazy idea is this:
If the match is still drawn then VAR officials who ’officially support’ the teams involved have a mud wrestling fight in the centre circle.
I never get overly annoyed with officials. They give decisions how they see it with just the one opportunity. Yes they get things wrong but in the course of a single game both sides has decisions go against them to moan about and it’s all swings and roundabouts. I’d rather have officials making honest errors than have VAR which, in my opinion, is ruining football.
The attacking team being given the benefit of the doubt in offside decisions,
VAR only being used to correct "clear and obvious" errors
Refs got it wrong again.